That's pretty clever. You pick that up from the other kids at lunch?
Here we see the wild fanboi in it's natural habitat. This little guy appears rabid, as evidenced by it's extensive use of 5th grade argument techniques.
That's pretty clever. You pick that up from the other kids at lunch?
Here we see the wild fanboi in it's natural habitat. This little guy appears rabid, as evidenced by it's extensive use of 5th grade argument techniques.
You must be confused. The guy I quoted hasn't made any argument...or even a single on-topic post...or even a single statement that is in any way relevant to the discussion in this thread.
But thanks for chiming in and declaring a winner after proving you can't comprehend the discussion. I guess this is the thread for doing that.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
id wanna see a use for eggs, milk, slime, etc before this hits beta. otherwise the whole first year of beta will be fixing that stuff to work right.
This is particularly funny to anyone else who played SWG (Star Wars Galaxies). When it was released, my profession (BE) had recipes requiring milk and eggs and crustacean, but none existed in the game. They weren't added as a drop for almost another year after release. So, for nearly a year after release, those recipes were completely impossible.
The budget of Sony Online Entertainment was enormous at the time, due to the unprecedented success of their previous game -- Everquest. They even had 8-10 staff online 24 hours a day to deal with customer issues. Yet, large portions of the game were incomplete when it released.
What you and the OP are expecting to be completed in alpha is unreasonable. By the end of beta, all the recipes may be changed completely, so making sure that every ingredient is used in a recipe for alpha would just be a waste of time.
my comment was actually a joke. if you look at the community as it is now, more people are complaining about stupid leaves as opposed to the performance issues and the people that do complain about lag are the ones trying to play on 10 year old computers.
ive played beta for many games as well as worked directly with game designers. im not goin to overstroke my e-peen like some people in this thread. the only gripe i have with rolling to beta is the support/billing issues (this is unreasonable even for alpha). all it takes is a handful of the wrong angry people to bring a company to its knees.
This is particularly funny to anyone else who played SWG (Star Wars Galaxies). When it was released, my profession (BE) had recipes requiring milk and eggs and crustacean, but none existed in the game. They weren't added as a drop for almost another year after release. So, for nearly a year after release, those recipes were completely impossible.
The budget of Sony Online Entertainment was enormous at the time, due to the unprecedented success of their previous game -- Everquest. They even had 8-10 staff online 24 hours a day to deal with customer issues. Yet, large portions of the game were incomplete when it released.
What you and the OP are expecting to be completed in alpha is unreasonable. By the end of beta, all the recipes may be changed completely, so making sure that every ingredient is used in a recipe for alpha would just be a waste of time.
That remind me of SecondLife, the game was alpha back between 2000-2001, then beta to 2002, and they used a very shity mesh body for the avatar creation which is one of the two more important parts of the game.
We are in 2011 soon, 10 years after the original release, and the very same mesh for the body is still here, and it's only for 2011 you will be able to change it. And yes "you" as in, they are not going to finish/polish it themselves.
For Minecraft, it could go beta to raise the price ? or because Notch believe his platform feel like being beta, whatever his reason is, beta could remain beta for another couple of years with absolutely everything changing over time. Alpha, Beta, release, pre-release, add-on, packs, sequel, whatever, not a single person use those words for the real definitions of them.
But whatever, alpha or not, it does not change that we are in a forum where the free of speech is not an option, and people still need to argue. If you disagree, you are free to post your disagreement, but don't do it to start an argument using an insulting way or not. You can disagree and remain nice. But not like if my words are going to change anything, though, both the op and replies are right, it's all a point of view.
This thread is the exact sort of thing that alpha testers are supposed to do. When an alpha is released to people, they are meant to test it and point out flaws and stop it from reaching the next stage of production. Now, to each their own opinion wise, I'd prefer the game to go to beta ASAP and get all the bugs fixed, then add more features later on, but that's just me.
PSA: Minecraft has been in beta testing for a long time now.
Umm, not really.... at all.
Notch hasn't released Beta yet, so that would mean the game is still in Alpha, and thus can only be tested as an alpha stage of a game. Hate to be obvious, but you made an obvious (most likely sarcastic) flaw.
Not can can name this Minecraft Alpha Unstable V0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.1, it is still not an alpha test when the game is released to the public.
Minecraft has more closely fit the description of beta test since the instant the first premium account sold.
PSA: Minecraft has been in beta testing for a long time now.
Umm, not really.... at all.
Notch hasn't released Beta yet, so that would mean the game is still in Alpha, and thus can only be tested as an alpha stage of a game. Hate to be obvious, but you made an obvious (most likely sarcastic) flaw.
Not can can name this Minecraft Alpha Unstable V0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.1, it is still not an alpha test when the game is released to the public.
Minecraft has more closely fit the description of beta test since the instant the first premium account sold.
i agree and disagree at this. i know the norm is for alpha to be played by an inhouse bunch of lucky kids that get paid to find bugs (backwards right?).
then again notch isnt <insert big game company here> and a lot of other indie software developers have a paypal "Donate" button on their site. Notch has one on the upper right on minecraft.net. so basically our perk for being the alpha/beta testers is the lifetime membership of free updates and the chance to say you played this game in alpha on the PC to the people who buy it for the Xbox 360 Kinect when it comes out.
Are you kidding me? o_O Play singleplayer for once. Play it when you are waiting for updates on multiplayer. Multiplayer will be done when it's done, and not before.
maybe because playing a game by oneself is lonely? -.- besides, i agree with ter. even if its beta, still, multi has become quite broken. and has anyone ever played a multi game beta (take the halo reach beta for example) in which half the game (multi and single = 2 halfs yes?) being almost broken to the point of not being worth playing? no thats what alpha is for. beta is for testing a nearly finished product and adding the spit and polish and finding those bugs that most people would likely have not found anyways (cept theres youtube theses days :tongue.gif:), at least thats how most companies do betas, and is the benchmark for what beta is, and i have yet to play a beta this broken... anyhow it still seems like one is all HEY BETA! when multi still feels like alpha, which is ter's point i think, in saying it shouldnt be beta yet if multi, half the game, doesnt fit the term "beta".
one could also view his post as: "Give multi some love, Notch!" :biggrin.gif:
How about you go find out what alpha and beta mean first, then complain.
Well Beta is pretty much a completed game which is a bit buggy. but ermn its true the server side may not be quiet ready, I think the single player version is fine and the server can be worked on later...
Not can can name this Minecraft Alpha Unstable V0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.1, it is still not an alpha test when the game is released to the public.
Minecraft has more closely fit the description of beta test since the instant the first premium account sold.
I'm not going to even touch that first sentence as it made no sense at all. Yeah, typically alpha tests aren't paid for, but when someone is a startup programmer and doesn't have the financial backing to sit there and program an alpha to release to a few people for free it's a different story. How often do you have to pay for a beta test also? I've beta tested at least ten games and none of them were paid, I got the game for free.
In the end, I agree with the OP, this game really isn't feature complete and shouldn't be leaving beta. There's a fair amount of things that he said he would add, that have just disappeared (lanterns anyone?)
As far as I'm concerned as long as multi-player remains as vulnerable as it is to griefing it's not ready for beta, and that's disregarding the other issues mentioned. I got this game to explore and build things, not to play a war game. From what I've read most people agree with that simple premise. Being able to kill other players is fine I guess, but destroying their stuff and raiding their chests just doesn't seem to be in the spirit of the game. Having said that, I feel the beta release is going to break everyones saves and fix a lot of the current issues. So much is being done to control things on the server side that I don't see how they could avoid it. Of course I don't know much about that sort of thing. Then there's "Notch / Mojang Time" to consider. Or maybe "Beta" is just a marketing strategy.
Lets be realistic. Not one of us is ever going to think the game is entirely complete, ever. And not everything Notch says or wants to be in the game will make it in. At some point there has to be a gold version and then Mojang will move on to bigger and better things after they collect a big fat F'ing check from Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo. Good for them. They can call it alpha, beta, bling-bling, or whatever. I've already got my money's worth out of it.
All the original poster had in mind was to post an experienced, well argued opinion on why this game (in it's current state) is not ready for the beta label. He gave the game high praise as well. Things went downhill from there thanks to a couple of imbeciles. Anyways, I agree with the OP.
P.S. After all these years why is "greifing" and "griefer" still not a word according to forum spell-check dictionaries?
Long time lurker/first time poster...and please don't use that as some sort of steryotype to say "oh well this person's post is automatically meanless by default."
Personally, I'm gonna have to agree with the OP on this one. I've seen the mentality that Madcow and many others like him have displayed here on the forum and, quite frankly, it's just deplorable.
We're all Alpha testers regardless of those that paid for it or not but anyone that knows enough about programming and about what would be expected of compiled code to be considered a complete alpha build before it goes into beta is not what we have yet and people have listed valid points to this accord that would normally be taken care of before you'd go into the beta testing mode of development. Multiplayer, more than single player, is just way too buggy with critical issues that would normally not be present in a beta build. Beta is all about polishing your work up, finding those missing comma locations (programmers, you know what I mean by that,) and ironing out the kinks, small and large.
Yes, Notch is the developer but if you honestly believe that the voices of Alpha testers have no merit on development then this must be your first foray at being an Alpha tester (and, let's be fair, this has not been your typical method of alpha testing) because normally it's the input of those testers that help the developer shape the game and find the large issues that they didn't have the time to see. Alpha testers ultimately have a greater impact on the final result than what beta testers would have.
It's just sad that there are so many people on this forum that don't fully grasp that but to those that do, kudos.
I see a lot of people complaining about the many features in multiplayer that do not work yet. What exactly are you referring to? The number one problem, duping, is going to be at least mostly fixed with the beta update.
So what's left to be added? Sure, the nether doesn't work yet. That's one thing. What else? Minecart boosters don't always work? Those are a glitch to begin with; complaining that an avoidable glitch got glitchier (in a way that cannot be abused) is pointless. Then there's the tool repair bug, which is just that: a bug (which might get fixed by the beta update). The only issues beyond this are related to lag with enemies and such.
The "problems" with griefing and raiding chests are not problems with Notch's design but with the server owners who refuse to let people play the game as intended. The current version of minecraft only includes survival; we know that creative is coming in the future. When Halo Reach was in beta, you didn't see everyone whining that single player didn't even exist. Guess what? If you really want to play creative mode, you can, and it's even free!
So, going by the incorrect design model most of you think is the standard, the only two things that will be missing from the beta will be creative mode and the nether in multiplayer (all other issues are bugs). I think that's pretty close.
Here we see the wild fanboi in it's natural habitat. This little guy appears rabid, as evidenced by it's extensive use of 5th grade argument techniques.
You must be confused. The guy I quoted hasn't made any argument...or even a single on-topic post...or even a single statement that is in any way relevant to the discussion in this thread.
But thanks for chiming in and declaring a winner after proving you can't comprehend the discussion. I guess this is the thread for doing that.
my comment was actually a joke. if you look at the community as it is now, more people are complaining about stupid leaves as opposed to the performance issues and the people that do complain about lag are the ones trying to play on 10 year old computers.
ive played beta for many games as well as worked directly with game designers. im not goin to overstroke my e-peen like some people in this thread. the only gripe i have with rolling to beta is the support/billing issues (this is unreasonable even for alpha). all it takes is a handful of the wrong angry people to bring a company to its knees.
That remind me of SecondLife, the game was alpha back between 2000-2001, then beta to 2002, and they used a very shity mesh body for the avatar creation which is one of the two more important parts of the game.
We are in 2011 soon, 10 years after the original release, and the very same mesh for the body is still here, and it's only for 2011 you will be able to change it. And yes "you" as in, they are not going to finish/polish it themselves.
For Minecraft, it could go beta to raise the price ? or because Notch believe his platform feel like being beta, whatever his reason is, beta could remain beta for another couple of years with absolutely everything changing over time. Alpha, Beta, release, pre-release, add-on, packs, sequel, whatever, not a single person use those words for the real definitions of them.
But whatever, alpha or not, it does not change that we are in a forum where the free of speech is not an option, and people still need to argue. If you disagree, you are free to post your disagreement, but don't do it to start an argument using an insulting way or not. You can disagree and remain nice. But not like if my words are going to change anything, though, both the op and replies are right, it's all a point of view.
Also what happened to Alchemy, Dragons, ocean mobs, etc?
Not can can name this Minecraft Alpha Unstable V0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.1, it is still not an alpha test when the game is released to the public.
Minecraft has more closely fit the description of beta test since the instant the first premium account sold.
i agree and disagree at this. i know the norm is for alpha to be played by an inhouse bunch of lucky kids that get paid to find bugs (backwards right?).
then again notch isnt <insert big game company here> and a lot of other indie software developers have a paypal "Donate" button on their site. Notch has one on the upper right on minecraft.net. so basically our perk for being the alpha/beta testers is the lifetime membership of free updates and the chance to say you played this game in alpha on the PC to the people who buy it for the Xbox 360 Kinect when it comes out.
maybe because playing a game by oneself is lonely? -.- besides, i agree with ter. even if its beta, still, multi has become quite broken. and has anyone ever played a multi game beta (take the halo reach beta for example) in which half the game (multi and single = 2 halfs yes?) being almost broken to the point of not being worth playing? no thats what alpha is for. beta is for testing a nearly finished product and adding the spit and polish and finding those bugs that most people would likely have not found anyways (cept theres youtube theses days :tongue.gif:), at least thats how most companies do betas, and is the benchmark for what beta is, and i have yet to play a beta this broken... anyhow it still seems like one is all HEY BETA! when multi still feels like alpha, which is ter's point i think, in saying it shouldnt be beta yet if multi, half the game, doesnt fit the term "beta".
one could also view his post as: "Give multi some love, Notch!" :biggrin.gif:
Well Beta is pretty much a completed game which is a bit buggy. but ermn its true the server side may not be quiet ready, I think the single player version is fine and the server can be worked on later...
I'm not going to even touch that first sentence as it made no sense at all. Yeah, typically alpha tests aren't paid for, but when someone is a startup programmer and doesn't have the financial backing to sit there and program an alpha to release to a few people for free it's a different story. How often do you have to pay for a beta test also? I've beta tested at least ten games and none of them were paid, I got the game for free.
Discredit this article if you want, but it describes the process pretty well of what notch is doing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_r ... life_cycle
In the end, I agree with the OP, this game really isn't feature complete and shouldn't be leaving beta. There's a fair amount of things that he said he would add, that have just disappeared (lanterns anyone?)
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Beta is just fixing bugs and makeing everything beeter dude.
Lets be realistic. Not one of us is ever going to think the game is entirely complete, ever. And not everything Notch says or wants to be in the game will make it in. At some point there has to be a gold version and then Mojang will move on to bigger and better things after they collect a big fat F'ing check from Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo. Good for them. They can call it alpha, beta, bling-bling, or whatever. I've already got my money's worth out of it.
All the original poster had in mind was to post an experienced, well argued opinion on why this game (in it's current state) is not ready for the beta label. He gave the game high praise as well. Things went downhill from there thanks to a couple of imbeciles. Anyways, I agree with the OP.
P.S. After all these years why is "greifing" and "griefer" still not a word according to forum spell-check dictionaries?
Personally, I'm gonna have to agree with the OP on this one. I've seen the mentality that Madcow and many others like him have displayed here on the forum and, quite frankly, it's just deplorable.
We're all Alpha testers regardless of those that paid for it or not but anyone that knows enough about programming and about what would be expected of compiled code to be considered a complete alpha build before it goes into beta is not what we have yet and people have listed valid points to this accord that would normally be taken care of before you'd go into the beta testing mode of development. Multiplayer, more than single player, is just way too buggy with critical issues that would normally not be present in a beta build. Beta is all about polishing your work up, finding those missing comma locations (programmers, you know what I mean by that,) and ironing out the kinks, small and large.
Yes, Notch is the developer but if you honestly believe that the voices of Alpha testers have no merit on development then this must be your first foray at being an Alpha tester (and, let's be fair, this has not been your typical method of alpha testing) because normally it's the input of those testers that help the developer shape the game and find the large issues that they didn't have the time to see. Alpha testers ultimately have a greater impact on the final result than what beta testers would have.
It's just sad that there are so many people on this forum that don't fully grasp that but to those that do, kudos.
So what's left to be added? Sure, the nether doesn't work yet. That's one thing. What else? Minecart boosters don't always work? Those are a glitch to begin with; complaining that an avoidable glitch got glitchier (in a way that cannot be abused) is pointless. Then there's the tool repair bug, which is just that: a bug (which might get fixed by the beta update). The only issues beyond this are related to lag with enemies and such.
The "problems" with griefing and raiding chests are not problems with Notch's design but with the server owners who refuse to let people play the game as intended. The current version of minecraft only includes survival; we know that creative is coming in the future. When Halo Reach was in beta, you didn't see everyone whining that single player didn't even exist. Guess what? If you really want to play creative mode, you can, and it's even free!
So, going by the incorrect design model most of you think is the standard, the only two things that will be missing from the beta will be creative mode and the nether in multiplayer (all other issues are bugs). I think that's pretty close.