I've been waiting to do any real work with portals until some of the glitches were worked out. I created my home portal because that one did not give me any trouble getting back to my original portal. So with a "fix" released I went to my first outpost, spent a lot of time digging out a nice gate room, built my gate and *POOF* I am teleported to my original nether gate at my home base.
This works great for quick traveling back home but leaves me with zero options to get back to my outpost. With the gates creating random counterparts in the real world I at least had a chance to travel between my basses.
Edit:
it seems over-world portals need to be something like 1000 meters apart from each other before they will even attempt to create a nether counterpart. I've tested up to 720 and still connected to the closest portal and only when I went beyond 1000 (1200) did a new nether gate get created.
When closest gates are disabled a proper nether gate will be created, proving that this is not a case of "there was no where 'safe' to place it"
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Playing Minecraft since [Friday, March 19, 2010, 9:20:21 PM] (First indev world save)
My world now has 3 gates. The one at my house that connects to and from my gate in the nether and that one in my outpost over 350 meters away that connects to the one in the nether.
1:350 =/= 1:16
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Playing Minecraft since [Friday, March 19, 2010, 9:20:21 PM] (First indev world save)
My world now has 3 gates. The one at my house that connects to and from my gate in the nether and that one in my outpost over 350 meters away that connects to the one in the nether.
1:350 =/= 1:16
Actually, the actual Nether ratio is 1:8. I would post a link to Notch's twitter, but I'm too lazy. :tongue.gif:
Actually, the actual Nether ratio is 1:8. I would post a link to Notch's twitter, but I'm too lazy. :tongue.gif:
About the portals, it’s possible that two portals can lead to the same portal in the Nether. This is because the space down there is compressed by a factor of 8, and I haven’t come up with a good way to fix this yet.
I might just end up doing an explicit one-to-one binding between portal pairs, but that’s nontrivial as it should survive the portal being temporarily destroyed. If you TNT a portal then rebuild it, you’d expect it to still lead to the same place, right?
Now I am confused, notch originally said 16:1 now he is saying 8:1
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Playing Minecraft since [Friday, March 19, 2010, 9:20:21 PM] (First indev world save)
Actually, the actual Nether ratio is 1:8. I would post a link to Notch's twitter, but I'm too lazy. :tongue.gif:
About the portals, it’s possible that two portals can lead to the same portal in the Nether. This is because the space down there is compressed by a factor of 8, and I haven’t come up with a good way to fix this yet.
I might just end up doing an explicit one-to-one binding between portal pairs, but that’s nontrivial as it should survive the portal being temporarily destroyed. If you TNT a portal then rebuild it, you’d expect it to still lead to the same place, right?
Now I am confused, notch originally said 16:1 now he is saying 8:1
He never CONFIRMED 16:1. He just considered it and used 8:1 instead. Dunno why 16:1 caught on.
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GENERATION ∞: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.
Quote from Dark_One2012 »
Someone once told me you could actually use the eggs and bucket of milk to make a cake. Turns out it was just a lie...
The original approach he went with was to link the portals based on relative location in the two worlds. That's part of the underlying point of the Nether-- to travel some distance there and come back to the overworld further away. For that to work, there has to be a correspondence between nether squares and overworld squares. But the problem then is that a particular square in the overworld could link to a particular square in the nether that will kill you when you teleport there. So he set it up so that the portals moved as much as necessary to not kill you. But since there's a correspondence between the squares, that moved the return position in the overworld. And that was the thing people were complaining about last week. But the other approach-- to link two portals directly, regardless of relative position-- can't help but result in just the problem you're having. Without player input ("Which portal would you like this one to link to? Pick one:"), all the game can do is link a new portal to an existing one, which is exactly what it's doing. You have no way to tell it that you want this one to link to a new portal but you want this other one to link to an existing one, and linking to a new one resulted in the problem everyone was having last week, while linking to an existing one results in the problem you're having now.
There is no good solution that I can see. He might try going with a sort of combination by linking a portal to the closest safe location to where it should be in a direct correspondence, then assigning a direct relationship between the two portals. But then what happens when you move in the nether and build a new portal? Is it supposed to bring you out in a position relative to where your original portal IS or relative to where your original portal should've been in order to directly link up with where your new portal ended up? And what happens if that new location, however it's determined, is somewhere that will kill you? It can't teleport you to instant death, so it's going to have to be moved some amount again, which yet again screws up the correspondence between the overworld and the nether.
Personally, I think he should just leave it the way it was in the first update. Unless you get lucky, there's not going to be a direct correspondence between portals and if you want a direct correspondence and it doesn't work out that way, you're going to have to work for it. That's just the way it goes.
Look, when you make the "outpost" portal, it needs to find a suitable place in the nether to put the twin. Sometimes it cannot find a suitable place, and it ends up realizing that the existing "home" portal's twin is the best it's gonna get.
This is a cut-away of my recent nether world, showing 74 levels and hiding the rest. I cut it here to show just how much hellstone there is in the nether.
Again, if the portal would have ended up buried in the hellstone, it's going to start looking for alternatives. Your home portal twin was the alternative it went with in this case.
Actually, the actual Nether ratio is 1:8. I would post a link to Notch's twitter, but I'm too lazy. :tongue.gif:
About the portals, it’s possible that two portals can lead to the same portal in the Nether. This is because the space down there is compressed by a factor of 8, and I haven’t come up with a good way to fix this yet.
I might just end up doing an explicit one-to-one binding between portal pairs, but that’s nontrivial as it should survive the portal being temporarily destroyed. If you TNT a portal then rebuild it, you’d expect it to still lead to the same place, right?
Now I am confused, notch originally said 16:1 now he is saying 8:1
He never CONFIRMED 16:1. He just considered it and used 8:1 instead. Dunno why 16:1 caught on.
Makes more sense. One Nether block = One Overworld Chunk
i thought that this is how it is supposed to be. i have built 6 portals on overworld and all lead to same portal in nether. (they are all very far apart). i thought you could only get a new portal if you built it in the nether, (or am i wrong)
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Quote from Rubikz »
I like how Notch cares about peoples religions... then again, I guessed if he called the Hell-ish place 'America' it wouldn't do much justice either...
Just needs to have some type of player imput that's all. Do I want portal A to hook with portal B or portal C? Now in reality we would just link our portals for the shortest traveling distaces, but what if you could only choose which portal in the overworld is linked to the nether portal.
Example:
Portal A is linked to Nether Portal B.
Nether Portal C is linked to Overworld D.
I CAN link Portal A to either B or C, but not D.
so thus I can't really shorten my trip to portal D because I can't reset my portals in the Nether.
I CAN NOT link Portal B to portal D unless I'm at portal D in the overworld and choose Nether Portal B.
This is all based on if we were allowed imput.
2nd Answer
In simple terms:
I build Overworld Portal A which links to Nether Portal B. This causes these two portals to be linked NO MATTER how far they are from each other, they are linked. Permantly. Unless Portal A become destroyed causing Nether Portal B to link to it's Overworld counterpart location.
BUT if I build Nether Portal B which creates Overworld Portal A, these two are also binded. NO MATTER what. Unless one is destroyed.
I just suggest that Notch decides that...
If we go from A ----> B then we should be able to go B -----> A, even if A is hundreds of miles from it's corresponding Nether portal. But that shouldn't mean that C ------> A works either, unless C happens to be right next to B, or is right "below" A.
I don't really see it being THAT complicated. Just have Portal A linked to Portal B. So if you travel from A you go to B, if you travel through B you end up in A, problem solved. We shouldn't have multiple portals leading to one exit.
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Bellow statement is true.
Above statement is false.
i thought that this is how it is supposed to be. i have built 6 portals on overworld and all lead to same portal in nether. (they are all very far apart). i thought you could only get a new portal if you built it in the nether, (or am i wrong)
The idea, though, is to be able to travel back and forth easily. You can get home from any of your satellite portals easily, but you can't get back out to them afterward. That's the problem people are having now. It'll get fixed at some point, I'm sure.
I've been waiting to do any real work with portals until some of the glitches were worked out.
So what you're saying is that, despite the fact that you had no previous experience with the first version of the portal generation code, you are declaring this newer method to be worse than the method you admit to having not used much, if at all.
Right. Got it.
BTW, this is an alpha.
(There's a perfectly sensible explanation for the issue you're having, and that is that the two portals "should" both create portals within the same lake of lava in hell, and the code to find a suitable alternative works the same every time. Thus, both locations end up looking at the same "safe" location. The portals in the nether ARE only about 43 meters apart, after all. That's hardly any distance at all.)
I've been waiting to do any real work with portals until some of the glitches were worked out.
So what you're saying is that, despite the fact that you had no previous experience with the first version of the portal generation code, you are declaring this newer method to be worse than the method you admit to having not used much, if at all.
Right. Got it.
You assume to much, I never said I didn't use the old method. I stated i had not done any "real" work as I played around with the nether a lot with a new world and a backup copy of my main world. The "real" work is the changes that I will keep is only after everything works right. I didn't want to do irreparable damage to my world
Quote from Moleculor »
BTW, this is an alpha.
Thanks for pointing that out, I HAD NO IDEA. [/sarcasm]
I've been around on these forums longer so I know that very well already and have told other people the same thing that don't seem to get it. The thing is if something is changed that people don't like if they do not say anything then it may go un-resolved. I'm not calling notch names, overly complaining, or demanding an immediate fix because "i deserve it" and "I payed for it". Just stating that there is still a problem
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Playing Minecraft since [Friday, March 19, 2010, 9:20:21 PM] (First indev world save)
I think the real problem here is that people are using portals for short-distance travel. They're intended for long-distance travel, not travel across the same amount of space that's generated when you first create a world, but across enough space that it takes days to travel.
Yes, obviously, at some point short-distance travel would be "nice", but the portal system has probably only been rigorously tested under long-distance conditions first, as that was the primary goal of them.
I think the real problem here is that people are using portals for short-distance travel. They're intended for long-distance travel, not travel across the same amount of space that's generated when you first create a world, but across enough space that it takes days to travel.
Yes, obviously, at some point short-distance travel would be "nice", but the portal system has probably only been rigorously tested under long-distance conditions first, as that was the primary goal of them.
This.
Really, just walk the 15 steps to "over there." If you want a new biome with lots of good resources, use a Portal. It wont make a difference THEN.
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GENERATION ∞: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.
Quote from Dark_One2012 »
Someone once told me you could actually use the eggs and bucket of milk to make a cake. Turns out it was just a lie...
Portals only work correctly if you build then in the nether. I have spent far too long figuring them out. If you build a portal in the overworld it creates one in the nether(duh) but when you go back up to the overworld and build another portal it does not make a portal in the nether that corresponds to its location in the overworld. However if you were to build a portal in the nether it would create a portal in the overworld that corresponded to its location in the nether.
I think the real problem here is that people are using portals for short-distance travel. They're intended for long-distance travel, not travel across the same amount of space that's generated when you first create a world, but across enough space that it takes days to travel.
Yes, obviously, at some point short-distance travel would be "nice", but the portal system has probably only been rigorously tested under long-distance conditions first, as that was the primary goal of them.
I wanted my portals at each of my outposts so I could easily jump between them, they are a good walk from each other in the overworld so it should not have been a problem. My very first attempt was to build a portal at home and then at my farthest outpost. I was not able to make a safe path or even find my original portal so it was useless for travel. Once I made the second portal in my outpost in question I was able to find each other portal and make paths so I could quick travel. Of course these were the ones that created random new gates overworld.
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Playing Minecraft since [Friday, March 19, 2010, 9:20:21 PM] (First indev world save)
This works great for quick traveling back home but leaves me with zero options to get back to my outpost. With the gates creating random counterparts in the real world I at least had a chance to travel between my basses.
Edit:
it seems over-world portals need to be something like 1000 meters apart from each other before they will even attempt to create a nether counterpart. I've tested up to 720 and still connected to the closest portal and only when I went beyond 1000 (1200) did a new nether gate get created.
When closest gates are disabled a proper nether gate will be created, proving that this is not a case of "there was no where 'safe' to place it"
Playing Minecraft since [Friday, March 19, 2010, 9:20:21 PM] (First indev world save)
he has a glitch that makes the gate in his outpost that teleports him to his house
1:350 =/= 1:16
Playing Minecraft since [Friday, March 19, 2010, 9:20:21 PM] (First indev world save)
Actually, the actual Nether ratio is 1:8. I would post a link to Notch's twitter, but I'm too lazy. :tongue.gif:
Now I am confused, notch originally said 16:1 now he is saying 8:1
Playing Minecraft since [Friday, March 19, 2010, 9:20:21 PM] (First indev world save)
He never CONFIRMED 16:1. He just considered it and used 8:1 instead. Dunno why 16:1 caught on.
Stop and think about the mechanics of this.
The original approach he went with was to link the portals based on relative location in the two worlds. That's part of the underlying point of the Nether-- to travel some distance there and come back to the overworld further away. For that to work, there has to be a correspondence between nether squares and overworld squares. But the problem then is that a particular square in the overworld could link to a particular square in the nether that will kill you when you teleport there. So he set it up so that the portals moved as much as necessary to not kill you. But since there's a correspondence between the squares, that moved the return position in the overworld. And that was the thing people were complaining about last week. But the other approach-- to link two portals directly, regardless of relative position-- can't help but result in just the problem you're having. Without player input ("Which portal would you like this one to link to? Pick one:"), all the game can do is link a new portal to an existing one, which is exactly what it's doing. You have no way to tell it that you want this one to link to a new portal but you want this other one to link to an existing one, and linking to a new one resulted in the problem everyone was having last week, while linking to an existing one results in the problem you're having now.
There is no good solution that I can see. He might try going with a sort of combination by linking a portal to the closest safe location to where it should be in a direct correspondence, then assigning a direct relationship between the two portals. But then what happens when you move in the nether and build a new portal? Is it supposed to bring you out in a position relative to where your original portal IS or relative to where your original portal should've been in order to directly link up with where your new portal ended up? And what happens if that new location, however it's determined, is somewhere that will kill you? It can't teleport you to instant death, so it's going to have to be moved some amount again, which yet again screws up the correspondence between the overworld and the nether.
Personally, I think he should just leave it the way it was in the first update. Unless you get lucky, there's not going to be a direct correspondence between portals and if you want a direct correspondence and it doesn't work out that way, you're going to have to work for it. That's just the way it goes.
This is a cut-away of my recent nether world, showing 74 levels and hiding the rest. I cut it here to show just how much hellstone there is in the nether.
Again, if the portal would have ended up buried in the hellstone, it's going to start looking for alternatives. Your home portal twin was the alternative it went with in this case.
Makes more sense. One Nether block = One Overworld Chunk
Example:
Portal A is linked to Nether Portal B.
Nether Portal C is linked to Overworld D.
I CAN link Portal A to either B or C, but not D.
so thus I can't really shorten my trip to portal D because I can't reset my portals in the Nether.
I CAN NOT link Portal B to portal D unless I'm at portal D in the overworld and choose Nether Portal B.
This is all based on if we were allowed imput.
2nd Answer
In simple terms:
I build Overworld Portal A which links to Nether Portal B. This causes these two portals to be linked NO MATTER how far they are from each other, they are linked. Permantly. Unless Portal A become destroyed causing Nether Portal B to link to it's Overworld counterpart location.
BUT if I build Nether Portal B which creates Overworld Portal A, these two are also binded. NO MATTER what. Unless one is destroyed.
I just suggest that Notch decides that...
If we go from A ----> B then we should be able to go B -----> A, even if A is hundreds of miles from it's corresponding Nether portal. But that shouldn't mean that C ------> A works either, unless C happens to be right next to B, or is right "below" A.
I don't really see it being THAT complicated. Just have Portal A linked to Portal B. So if you travel from A you go to B, if you travel through B you end up in A, problem solved. We shouldn't have multiple portals leading to one exit.
Above statement is false.
The idea, though, is to be able to travel back and forth easily. You can get home from any of your satellite portals easily, but you can't get back out to them afterward. That's the problem people are having now. It'll get fixed at some point, I'm sure.
So what you're saying is that, despite the fact that you had no previous experience with the first version of the portal generation code, you are declaring this newer method to be worse than the method you admit to having not used much, if at all.
Right. Got it.
BTW, this is an alpha.
(There's a perfectly sensible explanation for the issue you're having, and that is that the two portals "should" both create portals within the same lake of lava in hell, and the code to find a suitable alternative works the same every time. Thus, both locations end up looking at the same "safe" location. The portals in the nether ARE only about 43 meters apart, after all. That's hardly any distance at all.)
You assume to much, I never said I didn't use the old method. I stated i had not done any "real" work as I played around with the nether a lot with a new world and a backup copy of my main world. The "real" work is the changes that I will keep is only after everything works right. I didn't want to do irreparable damage to my world
Thanks for pointing that out, I HAD NO IDEA. [/sarcasm]
I've been around on these forums longer so I know that very well already and have told other people the same thing that don't seem to get it. The thing is if something is changed that people don't like if they do not say anything then it may go un-resolved. I'm not calling notch names, overly complaining, or demanding an immediate fix because "i deserve it" and "I payed for it". Just stating that there is still a problem
Playing Minecraft since [Friday, March 19, 2010, 9:20:21 PM] (First indev world save)
Yes, obviously, at some point short-distance travel would be "nice", but the portal system has probably only been rigorously tested under long-distance conditions first, as that was the primary goal of them.
This.
Really, just walk the 15 steps to "over there." If you want a new biome with lots of good resources, use a Portal. It wont make a difference THEN.
I wanted my portals at each of my outposts so I could easily jump between them, they are a good walk from each other in the overworld so it should not have been a problem. My very first attempt was to build a portal at home and then at my farthest outpost. I was not able to make a safe path or even find my original portal so it was useless for travel. Once I made the second portal in my outpost in question I was able to find each other portal and make paths so I could quick travel. Of course these were the ones that created random new gates overworld.
Playing Minecraft since [Friday, March 19, 2010, 9:20:21 PM] (First indev world save)