What's going on here... a thread where not just one, but multiple people posting and actually using logic and reason? A proper understanding of what a Alpha is? Where is all the whining and overtly entitled 'boycott' type threats?
/shudder
Kids have not gotten out of school yet
True x1000. This is why I don't post much here - too many young ones with a sense of entitlement thinking they're 'owed' updates whenever they want or that coding doesn't take time. As someone who knows more than enough programming and computer science to understand exactly what Notch has to do, I feel Notch's development has progressed at a very reasonable pace and is remarkably bug-free considering that it is an alpha. He's done a great job, in my opinion, of balancing bug fixes with adding content. The real problem is that some people decide that they want everything, and they want it now.
This condescending nonsense is infuriating to the mature young people who are active on the forums. Sure there are little kids that act like little kids but then there are also adults that act like little kids, which is even worse. Just because you are older does not necessarily make you better or wiser, just older. I am 14 and I have made several ( not very good) games. So I know how hard coding is and I appreciate the work that notch has done and the work he is doing. No one is perfect though, and I think notch still has something to learn about dealing with the public. For example, rather than saying "I will release the update Oct31 ready or not" he might've said something like "the update will be released some time in early November" and set a private goal of Oct 31 but could've taken more time to polish the update. In a way people are justified in complaining about certain bugs, ( for example the sides of grass) because they paid for the game as is with all future updates as a bonus. So it can be upsetting when your bonus ends up detracting from the game. Although I agree people have no reason to complain about portals etc. Because no one is forcing them to even make one.
What bothers me, is anyone who doesn't hate what Notch is doing is a Notch fanboy.
I do agree that the Halloween update did not add much to gameplay. I agree that the Nether is not practical, that Ghasts are under powered and repetitive, that biomes are way too small, and that overall, the update is no deal-maker.
But that's not the point! Ghasts, nether, and biomes are not new features for a finished game. They are merely place-holders. Biomes are small so they can be tested (the more regional boundries you encounter, the more likely you are to find a bug and report it). As I said in another thread, you Minecrafters are nothing more than alpha testers, testing a game you pre-ordered. That's just the way it is.
As for the update being polished, this game is in Alpha stage, Alpha is for implementing new features not for polish or bug fixing. Its the way the game industry works, this is for a reason.
If you fix bugs while implementing new features you will continually cause more bugs as you add more stuff. It creates more work for the developer and slows down the progress of the game.
Notch is fixing major bugs during alpha because he has made it a public alpha which means the game has to be playable, but you can''t expect a polished update until after the Beta test stage is fully completed.
Tbh they shouldn't be called Updates because people are treating them like full game updates.
*Edit* People have paid half price for the game for the added perk of playing it during development.
Yes the public alpha and the fact that people paid to partake in it causes all these angry people. Which is why if notch wants to avoid angry people at this point he should take more care to fix the main obvious bugs in each major update. Example: grayscale particles on trees? Eh... No one cares. Broken portals and hideous grass? Take an extra day or two to make it right.
*Edit of my edit* (I always notice parts of a post I meant to reply to but forget) You're assuming it will only take a day or two to fix the bugs? Notch is starting up a company now, he can no longer just code all the time.
More lies. Have a look at Notch's twitter. He specifically says that he is all done starting a company. I'll find it in a sec.
If you want to see people bitching after pre ordering this game look at half the threads on these forums.
@foocode The company is started, the office is signed, the employees are signed. There's not much left to do there! 6:00 AM Oct 31st
Example: grayscale particles on trees? Eh... No one cares. Broken portals and hideous grass? Take an extra day or two to make it right.[/size]
Are you serious? This is exactly what we're talking about in this thread. Let's take your example and I'll show you why it's a bad idea to do what you're suggesting Notch does.
Latest update, added portals. Portals work to get to and from Nether without a hitch except for the fact that they spawn multiple portals, all which still work. At this point Notch has two choices: move on to adding more content or "take an extra day or two to make it right," as you put it.
If he picks the former, the next update will have a new feature for us to play with. There's a workaround anyway and the portals themselves work.
If he picks the latter, he wastes a day or two, but the portals now work perfectly. He continues adding content, something that adds functionality to the Nether. Uh-Oh, the portals are now doing the same thing again. Another two days he spends fixing it. There we go. Oh, let's add support for server-hopping through portals. Uh-Oh! Portals are acting up again.. Another two days.. and so-on and so-on.
It makes more sense to leave it be since it works then to go back and waste time "fixing" something only to have it break down again. The grass stuff even moreso, what if he decides to add more grass selections? Then he'll have to go back and fix ANOTHER bug.
*Edit of my edit* (I always notice parts of a post I meant to reply to but forget) You're assuming it will only take a day or two to fix the bugs? Notch is starting up a company now, he can no longer just code all the time.
More lies. Have a look at Notch's twitter. He specifically says that he is all done starting a company. I'll find it in a sec.
If you want to see people bitching after pre ordering this game look at half the threads on these forums.
@foocode The company is started, the office is signed, the employees are signed. There's not much left to do there! 6:00 AM Oct 31st
-Notch's twitter
To think all of the work of starting a company ends with finishing the hiring process is ridiculous, good sir.
You're pretty much right but since we have all these people playing Alpha, it angers them. I didn't say it's what he should do. I said it's what he should do if he wanted to avoid angering a bunch of people and possibly discouraging them from recommending the game later. Ideally for game development, yes he should leave all the bugs as is and move on. This is what I'm trying to say about notch having a few things to learn abut appeasing th public.
Example: grayscale particles on trees? Eh... No one cares. Broken portals and hideous grass? Take an extra day or two to make it right.[/size]
Are you serious? This is exactly what we're talking about in this thread. Let's take your example and I'll show you why it's a bad idea to do what you're suggesting Notch does.
Latest update, added portals. Portals work to get to and from Nether without a hitch except for the fact that they spawn multiple portals, all which still work. At this point Notch has two choices: move on to adding more content or "take an extra day or two to make it right," as you put it.
If he picks the former, the next update will have a new feature for us to play with. There's a workaround anyway and the portals themselves work.
If he picks the latter, he wastes a day or two, but the portals now work perfectly. He continues adding content, something that adds functionality to the Nether. Uh-Oh, the portals are now doing the same thing again. Another two days he spends fixing it. There we go. Oh, let's add support for server-hopping through portals. Uh-Oh! Portals are acting up again.. Another two days.. and so-on and so-on.
It makes more sense to leave it be since it works then to go back and waste time "fixing" something only to have it break down again. The grass stuff even moreso, what if he decides to add more grass selections? Then he'll have to go back and fix ANOTHER bug.
/Agree ^
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“A fine beer may be judged with only one sip, but it's better to be thoroughly sure.” ~proverb
*Edit of my edit* (I always notice parts of a post I meant to reply to but forget) You're assuming it will only take a day or two to fix the bugs? Notch is starting up a company now, he can no longer just code all the time.
More lies. Have a look at Notch's twitter. He specifically says that he is all done starting a company. I'll find it in a sec.
If you want to see people bitching after pre ordering this game look at half the threads on these forums.
@foocode The company is started, the office is signed, the employees are signed. There's not much left to do there! 6:00 AM Oct 31st
-Notch's twitter
To think all of the work of starting a company ends with finishing the hiring process is ridiculous, good sir.
Beat me to it!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“A fine beer may be judged with only one sip, but it's better to be thoroughly sure.” ~proverb
To think all of the work of starting a company ends
Nuff said? I mean right there. Just look at it. I don't get how I'm wrong...
Edit: as clarification, he said this After the guy asked him if he wouldn't be coding because of the business. And basically said, no the business is started and I'm coding.
I don't think Notch needs to work on his public relations. I think people need to be a bit more informed on how the development process works and be a bit more mature about things.
Minecraft after all isn't life.
Lies. Minecraft is life. Jk though. Yeah I Agree, but you have to realize that this wouldn't happen. The world isn't going to become sensible over night. I wish this were the case though.
You're pretty much right but since we have all these people playing Alpha, it angers them. I didn't say it's what he should do. I said it's what he should do if he wanted to avoid angering a bunch of people and possibly discouraging them from recommending the game later. Ideally for game development, yes he should leave all the bugs as is and move on. This is what I'm trying to say about notch having a few things to learn abut appeasing th public.
Well, that's a matter of opinion. I can see your point, but I'm not entirely convinced Notch cares much for appeasing the public, or at least, appeasing those who are rude to him. I remember hearing something about how he was really just developing a game that he would want to play. This probably trickles down to how he develops the game as well.
In the end, you can't please everyone all the time, and Notch probably realizes this. If he spend more time fixing bugs, it would delay content, and he'd have an equal number of people complaining about the lack of content and how he stupidly focuses on unnecessary bug fixes, or some such.
I don't think Notch needs to work on his public relations. I think people need to be a bit more informed on how the development process works and be a bit more mature about things.
To think all of the work of starting a company ends
Nuff said? I mean right there. Just look at it. I don't get how I'm wrong...
Edit: as clarification, he said this After the guy asked him if he wouldn't be coding because of the business. And basically said, no the business is started and I'm coding.
Semantics. In your argument you're implying that Notch has all the time in the world because he has finished starting his company. In Notch's tweet, he is stating that his company has been created, i.e. he has finished starting the company, but a business does not just take off on its own without any work involved.
I was merely pointing out that although his company is complete, it's only the beginning, and there is still a lot of work ahead of him.
But isn't most of that work coding? I mean he's got lawyers and managers and all that kind of stuff. Plus he is done hiring artists/programmers for now. And he's got the office. And in my post I just said that he could take 2 extra days. He's done more than fix a few bugs in just a single hour of coding.
This condescending nonsense is infuriating to the mature young people who are active on the forums. Sure there are little kids that act like little kids but then there are also adults that act like little kids, which is even worse. Just because you are older does not necessarily make you better or wiser, just older. I am 14 and I have made several ( not very good) games. So I know how hard coding is and I appreciate the work that notch has done and the work he is doing. No one is perfect though, and I think notch still has something to learn about dealing with the public. For example, rather than saying "I will release the update Oct31 ready or not" he might've said something like "the update will be released some time in early November" and set a private goal of Oct 31 but could've taken more time to polish the update. In a way people are justified in complaining about certain bugs, ( for example the sides of grass) because they paid for the game as is with all future updates as a bonus. So it can be upsetting when your bonus ends up detracting from the game. Although I agree people have no reason to complain about portals etc. Because no one is forcing them to even make one.
I do agree that the Halloween update did not add much to gameplay. I agree that the Nether is not practical, that Ghasts are under powered and repetitive, that biomes are way too small, and that overall, the update is no deal-maker.
But that's not the point! Ghasts, nether, and biomes are not new features for a finished game. They are merely place-holders. Biomes are small so they can be tested (the more regional boundries you encounter, the more likely you are to find a bug and report it). As I said in another thread, you Minecrafters are nothing more than alpha testers, testing a game you pre-ordered. That's just the way it is.
Yes the public alpha and the fact that people paid to partake in it causes all these angry people. Which is why if notch wants to avoid angry people at this point he should take more care to fix the main obvious bugs in each major update. Example: grayscale particles on trees? Eh... No one cares. Broken portals and hideous grass? Take an extra day or two to make it right.
Seems to me a semi-public alpha is a bonus.
Lies. People do all the time. Most people judge a game by it's beta (Yes, I know his is Alpha)
Oh? If that's the case, then such individuals have forfeited all integrity.
More lies. Have a look at Notch's twitter. He specifically says that he is all done starting a company. I'll find it in a sec.
If you want to see people bitching after pre ordering this game look at half the threads on these forums.
@foocode The company is started, the office is signed, the employees are signed. There's not much left to do there! 6:00 AM Oct 31st
-Notch's twitter
Are you serious? This is exactly what we're talking about in this thread. Let's take your example and I'll show you why it's a bad idea to do what you're suggesting Notch does.
Latest update, added portals. Portals work to get to and from Nether without a hitch except for the fact that they spawn multiple portals, all which still work. At this point Notch has two choices: move on to adding more content or "take an extra day or two to make it right," as you put it.
If he picks the former, the next update will have a new feature for us to play with. There's a workaround anyway and the portals themselves work.
If he picks the latter, he wastes a day or two, but the portals now work perfectly. He continues adding content, something that adds functionality to the Nether. Uh-Oh, the portals are now doing the same thing again. Another two days he spends fixing it. There we go. Oh, let's add support for server-hopping through portals. Uh-Oh! Portals are acting up again.. Another two days.. and so-on and so-on.
It makes more sense to leave it be since it works then to go back and waste time "fixing" something only to have it break down again. The grass stuff even moreso, what if he decides to add more grass selections? Then he'll have to go back and fix ANOTHER bug.
To think all of the work of starting a company ends with finishing the hiring process is ridiculous, good sir.
/Agree ^
“A fine beer may be judged with only one sip, but it's better to be thoroughly sure.” ~proverb
Beat me to it!
“A fine beer may be judged with only one sip, but it's better to be thoroughly sure.” ~proverb
Nuff said? I mean right there. Just look at it. I don't get how I'm wrong...
Edit: as clarification, he said this After the guy asked him if he wouldn't be coding because of the business. And basically said, no the business is started and I'm coding.
Lies. Minecraft is life. Jk though. Yeah I Agree, but you have to realize that this wouldn't happen. The world isn't going to become sensible over night. I wish this were the case though.
Well, that's a matter of opinion. I can see your point, but I'm not entirely convinced Notch cares much for appeasing the public, or at least, appeasing those who are rude to him. I remember hearing something about how he was really just developing a game that he would want to play. This probably trickles down to how he develops the game as well.
In the end, you can't please everyone all the time, and Notch probably realizes this. If he spend more time fixing bugs, it would delay content, and he'd have an equal number of people complaining about the lack of content and how he stupidly focuses on unnecessary bug fixes, or some such.
If only it was, if only it was...
Semantics. In your argument you're implying that Notch has all the time in the world because he has finished starting his company. In Notch's tweet, he is stating that his company has been created, i.e. he has finished starting the company, but a business does not just take off on its own without any work involved.
I was merely pointing out that although his company is complete, it's only the beginning, and there is still a lot of work ahead of him.
Most (if not all) of the people complaining are probably 12 years old also, and have no sense of gratitude.