I have something that'll throw this whole conversation for a loop.
It doesn't happen anymore because I've moved portals so many times in an attempt to fix the problem, but my original portal would teleport me either to the new portal (made in the overworld) or the original portal depending on which direction I was facing when I exited the Nether.
Try and make sense out of that.
Here's my best guess. Due to the 8x1 ratio each square in the Nether is assigned an 8x8 grid on the surface. A portal is 2x1, so in truth, this portal covers a 16x8....
Portal
(Violet is the actual portal part that matters)
Correlates to...
I'm going to guess that the two portals in question are withing a 16x8 grid of one another (check)
The yellow & blue blocks are your Nether portal.. Represented on the surface. Now if you walk through on one side of the portal, you come out of the northern portal. If you walk through the other side, the southern portal.
Disclaimer: By no means do I believe this theory is 100% correct, I'm only throwing out a possibility to help get everyone elses minds going on this problem.
Also! We need a VIDEO of this occurance to...
1- Prove you ain't trolling.
2- So we can get all of the facts.
Sorry to do this, but I'm also going to throw a bit of a wrench into this whole theory. When I made my first portal in the real world, it led to a mountain in the Nether. I looked around, heard some strange noises, said hi to the ghasts and died. I returned, and there were pig zombies all around where I was, and still the ghasts, I died by fire again. By the third time I returned, there was a second and third portal, attached to one another and my portal, not interfering with mine and not activated. I actually mined up those two non-activated portals to make two more new portals, one taking me to a lakeside area, another to a cave. I had no extra portals near the lake, but I had two outside the cave on seperate islands that led to the same portal that leds to the cave. After a while I noteced a third portal far off in the distance, which i ended up swimming to (due to it being across a large body of water, also i had my rendering distance on far). That portal led me to a seperate area in the nether that I had never been to before, was surrounded by pig zombies, and was near my portal that led to the beach when i emerged. This portal did not need to be activated, it was already on. How will you fit this into your theories?
Sorry to do this, but I'm also going to throw a bit of a wrench into this whole theory. When I made my first portal in the real world, it led to a mountain in the Nether. I looked around, heard some strange noises, said hi to the ghasts and died. I returned, and there were pig zombies all around where I was, and still the ghasts, I died by fire again. By the third time I returned, there was a second and third portal, attached to one another and my portal, not interfering with mine and not activated. I actually mined up those two non-activated portals to make two more new portals, one taking me to a lakeside area, another to a cave. I had no extra portals near the lake, but I had two outside the cave on seperate islands that led to the same portal that leds to the cave. After a while I noteced a third portal far off in the distance, which i ended up swimming to (due to it being across a large body of water, also i had my rendering distance on far). That portal led me to a seperate area in the nether that I had never been to before, was surrounded by pig zombies, and was near my portal that led to the beach when i emerged. This portal did not need to be activated, it was already on. How will you fit this into your theories?
Well the first two nearby portals are easy: When you died in the nether, ghasts blew out your portals. So when you returned, a new portal had to be created. And then again.
As for the others, your accounts are confusing, but probably just new return portals.
Mitch 7656 is actually right, if you go to 1/8 of your portal location (the real world portal) and make a new portal there (in the nether) then it will work perfectly fine
Personally, I'm for the clearing method (what with the sphere of red cobblestone around in lakes, and the like.)
The Nether is dangerous. Sometimes, it doesn't take you where you want to go. You can still make portals that spawn in spheres inside lava lakes workable, it just requires effort and some terraforming on your own. The idea of making precisely-placed portals on the overworld is one of the most appealing parts of the Nether, to me; anything that sacrifices the ratio just turns the whole procedure into a huge exercise in trial-and-error, without the usual predictability/science that minecraft offers.
Personally, I'm for the clearing method (what with the sphere of red cobblestone around in lakes, and the like.)
The Nether is dangerous. Sometimes, it doesn't take you where you want to go. You can still make portals that spawn in spheres inside lava lakes workable, it just requires effort and some terraforming on your own. The idea of making precisely-placed portals on the overworld is one of the most appealing parts of the Nether, to me; anything that sacrifices the ratio just turns the whole procedure into a huge exercise in trial-and-error, without the usual predictability/science that minecraft offers.
Read my post on page 3 as to why that won't work.
If your portal spawns down far enough in the lava, it becomes a liability, a dead portal. Otherwise, it's just an ugly blight on the landscape.
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um idk if anyone knows this but i thought the portals were created on top of any existing blocks. if not, this is the best solution. way better then removing or adding blocks
in smp, when it does work, what if something some one build is there? then what?
1. Link portals: If you create a portal on Earth it creates a permanently linked portal in the Nether at the nearest safe location. (This will keep the exact same safety protocols as we have now.) Entering the Nether portals will always bring you back to the Earth portal which created it and will never create a new portal unless the Earth portal has been destroyed or disabled.
2. Safety bubble/platform: Creating a portal on Earth will force a Portal to be created in the exact corresponding location in the Nether. A. If there is a mountain in the way, the portal creates a safety bubble.
B. If there is a lava lake in the way, the portal is moved to the surface of the lake and creates a small platform.
C. If there is a lava fall in the way, remove the lava fall source block and delete the flowing lava from the nether.
I prefer method 2 because having portals created on massive lava lakes would be awesome. The only problem with Method 2 is lava falls, removing them would be ideal but may be hard to do, i have no idea...
After seeing yet another "Portal Glitch" thread, I feel obligated to post a response. Here, I plan to address the "Problem," the "Glitch," which I will refer to as an issue--it's not a "glitch" or a "problem" and I'll explain why. Second, I will address some of the "solutions" that have been proposed.
The Issue is that the initial portal (and subsequent portals if you insist on starting your networks in the Overworld) do not always link to their Nether counterparts. As was illustrated at the beginning of this thread, and as I have found out from first hand experience, this is because the area required to make a portal that corresponds to your Overworld Portal is blocked by something. It doesn't always have to be dangerous either--it can simply be that there's a thick wall in the way. So, since something is blocking the way, the game generates a portal in the nearest available space. This portal corresponds to different coordinates in the Overworld. That is why you can't use it to get back to the initial portal. However, if you dig to a place that corresponds with your initial portal and construct a portal there it will link up to that original portal (or construct a new one close by) (I have done all these things).
Why isn't it a "Glitch" or a "problem?" Think of it this way. You are standing on a blue dot, but want to move to a red dot. The red dot closest to you is being stood on by another person. There's another red dot a little further away. So you go to the empty red dot. The only way to open the path between your blue dot and the red dot being stood on is to have that standing person move. But in mine craft the only way to make that person move is to first get to a red dot. Most people won't just shove the red dot stander over on their way. (It's not a perfect metaphor, but there is no such thing). It works the same way matter does in the real world. No two bodies of matter are able to take up the exact same space simultaneously. So different routes are made to arrive at the same or a similar destination. It's not really a "glitch" or a "problem." It's a safety feature so you don't go smashing into a star or an asteroid along the way, ya savvy? So what if you have to do a little digging? It's no different than anything else in the game. Digging and building is one of the major cruxes of the game. So get your pick axe and clear out the corresponding area if you don't want to build a new base around the proper corresponding portal. And for godsakes! Once you have that one portal, just build your network in hell--it will save you some blood sweat and tears. I have all of my portals corresponding to each other because I put forth a little effort. It's not that hard. And I dug myself up out into the ocean and back doing this, so until someone else has done a greater or similar feat dealing with portals I don't want to hear any whining.
Your "Solutions:"
One of the most common solutions I've heard is to build a safe platform at the end portal. If this happens you might be safe from lava or water, but consider these two things: When you build a new portal to arrive in the Overworld, you might end up with a platformed portal busting up part of your base and that this platform won't save you from coming out of your portal and into a wall.
But what about remapping/deleting around the portal? Oh god you're scary! This could wreak all sorts of havoc on your tunnels and bases in the Nether as well as the tunnels and bases you keep in the Overworld. Not to mention the glitches and problems that might be spawned because of those things.
Okay, what about connecting portals A-A B-B C-C? This would work. However, I don't see anything wrong with the current portaling system. Is it inconvenient? A little, but so are ghasts, creepers, skeletons, zombies, pockets of lava you're not aware of... It's a fun challenge. Just try putting a little effort into things mmkay? (Also, I'm sure this sort of thing could be easily broken so you could warp all the way around the world without breaking a sweat).
Gate Addresses? Ooh! That's a cool idea, but then you have to deal with putting in addresses anytime you want to go somewhere or if you have a DHD (Dial Home Device) you need to remember what you have your gates set to--and this would be just as big of an inconvenience as (or maybe bigger than) digging a corresponding area out for your gate.
So two of the "solutions" were very bad and can = death and hard, nasty glitching, one is just as big an inconvenience and the other is basically me calling you a game-breaking pansy.
My solutions are: 1) Put forth effort to get your portals to correspond to each other and 2) Grow a pair.
Okay, what about connecting portals A-A B-B C-C? This would work. However, I don't see anything wrong with the current portaling system. Is it inconvenient? A little, but so are ghasts, creepers, skeletons, zombies, pockets of lava you're not aware of... It's a fun challenge. Just try putting a little effort into things mmkay? (Also, I'm sure this sort of thing could be easily broken so you could warp all the way around the world without breaking a sweat).
Remember, the reason for the Nether in the first place was for fast travel. I want to be able to place a portal in my basement, place a portal in my favorite mine. Enter my basement portal, walk through the nether a short while (shorter than surface distance, obviously), then walk through my other portal to my mine.
The current portal system doesn't provide enough CONSISTENCY to be a proper fast travel system. Also, you did fix a couple of methods for fixing the 'bubble-system', but as you said, it still doesn't fix lava spouts pouring on your head, and the fact that it may wreck things you've already build. (ie, walking through nether, place portal. Oh wow! Portal happens to lead into the middle of my base! How convenient.... Except it spawned in one of my walls, so by default it deleted everything within 5 blocks.. ****. >_>) Mild over-exaggeration, but I like to point out some of the worst-case scenarios.
Worst case scenario with the identifier method is it makes the 8:1 ratio of surface to nether a little wonky.
Also: +1 internets for you, since you're playing Devil's Advocate, being the only real supporter of the safe-portal method.
While I don't think that Terran.Knight has added anything revolutionary to the discussion (the main argument for keeping the old system is still, basically, "Suck it!"), I guess it's good to hear another, probably less popular opinion.
What will shake thjings up, though, is the newest version of the game, especially considering the part about the portals. Notch is his usual vague self, however, so I don't know how he's attempted to solve the problem and I haven't had a chance to test the new mechanism yet. Just throwing it out there so that everyone notices.
Quote from Notch »
I might just end up doing an explicit one-to-one binding between portal pairs, but that’s nontrivial as it should survive the portal being temporarily destroyed. If you TNT a portal then rebuild it, you’d expect it to still lead to the same place, right?
When he's talking about the one-to-one binding, it sounds like the identifier method.
Also, foolish Notch, don't you realize TnT doesn't blow up obsidian? ;P (I lol'd when he said that)
I for one hate the old portal system and would love it if he went to explicit one-to-one binding.
Some of my portals can't be fixed by that whole, 'Find where it was supposed to be and dig it out!'. Hence the giant lava lakes and untold amounts of hellblocks i'd need to dig upward (yes, i spawned in deep caves with my exit portals...)
Edit: even with this update and trying to place new portals they are still bugged...
Edit2: YES! FINALLY! I MADE A PORTAL AND IT WASN'T BUGGED! DIDN"T EVEN NEED TO FIX IT!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"No one shall be able to drive us from the wonderland that ZUN created for us."
-ChaosAngel092
There is not quick & easy solution because the function that maps from World to Nether is not invertible.
Assume Scale(Nether, World)= 8
Ignoring terrain, the function to map from World to Nether is Nether = World DIV 8 (DIV is integer divide, i.e. divide A by B and throw away the remainder) That means that World[12,15,9] will map to Nether[1,1,1] as will World[8,9,12] and any World location in the range[8..15, 8..15, 8..15]. The mapping is not unique. There are, in fact, 512 (8*8*8) locations in World that map to each location in Nether.
Contrariwise the inverse function from Nether to World is World = Nether MULT 8. Each mapping from Nether to World is unique and will always be to a multiple of 8. Nether[1, 2, 3] = World[8, 16, 24] Nether[1,1,3] = World[8, 8, 24]
Therefore, if you start in World[0..7, 0..7, 0..7] you will map to Nether[0, 0, 0] which will always bring you back to World[0,0,0]. There is no simple way to map from Nether[0, 0, 0] to World[5, 3, 7].
If Scale(Nether, World) = 8 is true then Gates must be placed at least [8, 8, 8] apart.
I't's probably just a result of the algorithm that finds a safe spot for the portal. Let's say there's a small cave in the Nether surrounded by walls to the east and west. In the overworld, if you build a portal to the east, the game will determine the small cave as the safe spot. If you build to the west in the overworld, there's a wall there as well in the Nether, and the same cave would be the nearest safe spot, so both portals would lead to that cave.
There might be additional programming that makes a portal connect to another one if it's near the determined safe spot, even if it's not exactly in the same position, so that you don't end up with a bunch of portals right next to each other, but that's just my speculation to explain some of the weirder coincidences. The main problem, I'd say, is what I mentioned above.
but.... this far appart?
I built them in the normal world.....
That far apart and they BOTH connected to the same nether portal?
EDIT: I hi-lighted the portals with those red boxes.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"No one shall be able to drive us from the wonderland that ZUN created for us."
-ChaosAngel092
Here's my best guess. Due to the 8x1 ratio each square in the Nether is assigned an 8x8 grid on the surface. A portal is 2x1, so in truth, this portal covers a 16x8....
Portal
(Violet is the actual portal part that matters)
Correlates to...
I'm going to guess that the two portals in question are withing a 16x8 grid of one another (check)
The yellow & blue blocks are your Nether portal.. Represented on the surface. Now if you walk through on one side of the portal, you come out of the northern portal. If you walk through the other side, the southern portal.
Disclaimer: By no means do I believe this theory is 100% correct, I'm only throwing out a possibility to help get everyone elses minds going on this problem.
Also! We need a VIDEO of this occurance to...
1- Prove you ain't trolling.
2- So we can get all of the facts.
Do you own Minecraft?
I'm about to start up a Portal Research thread. Socob, will you help me if I do?
Do you own Minecraft?
Well the first two nearby portals are easy: When you died in the nether, ghasts blew out your portals. So when you returned, a new portal had to be created. And then again.
As for the others, your accounts are confusing, but probably just new return portals.
[URL=http://img215.imageshack.us/i/portalstairsexit.jpg/]
The Nether is dangerous. Sometimes, it doesn't take you where you want to go. You can still make portals that spawn in spheres inside lava lakes workable, it just requires effort and some terraforming on your own. The idea of making precisely-placed portals on the overworld is one of the most appealing parts of the Nether, to me; anything that sacrifices the ratio just turns the whole procedure into a huge exercise in trial-and-error, without the usual predictability/science that minecraft offers.
Read my post on page 3 as to why that won't work.
If your portal spawns down far enough in the lava, it becomes a liability, a dead portal. Otherwise, it's just an ugly blight on the landscape.
Do you own Minecraft?
in smp, when it does work, what if something some one build is there? then what?
1. Link portals: If you create a portal on Earth it creates a permanently linked portal in the Nether at the nearest safe location. (This will keep the exact same safety protocols as we have now.) Entering the Nether portals will always bring you back to the Earth portal which created it and will never create a new portal unless the Earth portal has been destroyed or disabled.
2. Safety bubble/platform: Creating a portal on Earth will force a Portal to be created in the exact corresponding location in the Nether.
A. If there is a mountain in the way, the portal creates a safety bubble.
B. If there is a lava lake in the way, the portal is moved to the surface of the lake and creates a small platform.
C. If there is a lava fall in the way, remove the lava fall source block and delete the flowing lava from the nether.
I prefer method 2 because having portals created on massive lava lakes would be awesome. The only problem with Method 2 is lava falls, removing them would be ideal but may be hard to do, i have no idea...
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=93046&start=30
The Issue is that the initial portal (and subsequent portals if you insist on starting your networks in the Overworld) do not always link to their Nether counterparts. As was illustrated at the beginning of this thread, and as I have found out from first hand experience, this is because the area required to make a portal that corresponds to your Overworld Portal is blocked by something. It doesn't always have to be dangerous either--it can simply be that there's a thick wall in the way. So, since something is blocking the way, the game generates a portal in the nearest available space. This portal corresponds to different coordinates in the Overworld. That is why you can't use it to get back to the initial portal. However, if you dig to a place that corresponds with your initial portal and construct a portal there it will link up to that original portal (or construct a new one close by) (I have done all these things).
Why isn't it a "Glitch" or a "problem?" Think of it this way. You are standing on a blue dot, but want to move to a red dot. The red dot closest to you is being stood on by another person. There's another red dot a little further away. So you go to the empty red dot. The only way to open the path between your blue dot and the red dot being stood on is to have that standing person move. But in mine craft the only way to make that person move is to first get to a red dot. Most people won't just shove the red dot stander over on their way. (It's not a perfect metaphor, but there is no such thing). It works the same way matter does in the real world. No two bodies of matter are able to take up the exact same space simultaneously. So different routes are made to arrive at the same or a similar destination. It's not really a "glitch" or a "problem." It's a safety feature so you don't go smashing into a star or an asteroid along the way, ya savvy? So what if you have to do a little digging? It's no different than anything else in the game. Digging and building is one of the major cruxes of the game. So get your pick axe and clear out the corresponding area if you don't want to build a new base around the proper corresponding portal. And for godsakes! Once you have that one portal, just build your network in hell--it will save you some blood sweat and tears. I have all of my portals corresponding to each other because I put forth a little effort. It's not that hard. And I dug myself up out into the ocean and back doing this, so until someone else has done a greater or similar feat dealing with portals I don't want to hear any whining.
Your "Solutions:"
One of the most common solutions I've heard is to build a safe platform at the end portal. If this happens you might be safe from lava or water, but consider these two things: When you build a new portal to arrive in the Overworld, you might end up with a platformed portal busting up part of your base and that this platform won't save you from coming out of your portal and into a wall.
But what about remapping/deleting around the portal? Oh god you're scary! This could wreak all sorts of havoc on your tunnels and bases in the Nether as well as the tunnels and bases you keep in the Overworld. Not to mention the glitches and problems that might be spawned because of those things.
Okay, what about connecting portals A-A B-B C-C? This would work. However, I don't see anything wrong with the current portaling system. Is it inconvenient? A little, but so are ghasts, creepers, skeletons, zombies, pockets of lava you're not aware of... It's a fun challenge. Just try putting a little effort into things mmkay? (Also, I'm sure this sort of thing could be easily broken so you could warp all the way around the world without breaking a sweat).
Gate Addresses? Ooh! That's a cool idea, but then you have to deal with putting in addresses anytime you want to go somewhere or if you have a DHD (Dial Home Device) you need to remember what you have your gates set to--and this would be just as big of an inconvenience as (or maybe bigger than) digging a corresponding area out for your gate.
So two of the "solutions" were very bad and can = death and hard, nasty glitching, one is just as big an inconvenience and the other is basically me calling you a game-breaking pansy.
My solutions are: 1) Put forth effort to get your portals to correspond to each other and 2) Grow a pair.
Remember, the reason for the Nether in the first place was for fast travel. I want to be able to place a portal in my basement, place a portal in my favorite mine. Enter my basement portal, walk through the nether a short while (shorter than surface distance, obviously), then walk through my other portal to my mine.
The current portal system doesn't provide enough CONSISTENCY to be a proper fast travel system. Also, you did fix a couple of methods for fixing the 'bubble-system', but as you said, it still doesn't fix lava spouts pouring on your head, and the fact that it may wreck things you've already build. (ie, walking through nether, place portal. Oh wow! Portal happens to lead into the middle of my base! How convenient.... Except it spawned in one of my walls, so by default it deleted everything within 5 blocks.. ****. >_>) Mild over-exaggeration, but I like to point out some of the worst-case scenarios.
Worst case scenario with the identifier method is it makes the 8:1 ratio of surface to nether a little wonky.
Also: +1 internets for you, since you're playing Devil's Advocate, being the only real supporter of the safe-portal method.
Do you own Minecraft?
When he's talking about the one-to-one binding, it sounds like the identifier method.
Also, foolish Notch, don't you realize TnT doesn't blow up obsidian? ;P (I lol'd when he said that)
Do you own Minecraft?
Some of my portals can't be fixed by that whole, 'Find where it was supposed to be and dig it out!'. Hence the giant lava lakes and untold amounts of hellblocks i'd need to dig upward (yes, i spawned in deep caves with my exit portals...)
Edit: even with this update and trying to place new portals they are still bugged...
Edit2: YES! FINALLY! I MADE A PORTAL AND IT WASN'T BUGGED! DIDN"T EVEN NEED TO FIX IT!
-ChaosAngel092
NO CREEPER NO.
Do you own Minecraft?
Any idea what the hell causes this?
-ChaosAngel092
Assume Scale(Nether, World)= 8
Ignoring terrain, the function to map from World to Nether is Nether = World DIV 8 (DIV is integer divide, i.e. divide A by B and throw away the remainder) That means that World[12,15,9] will map to Nether[1,1,1] as will World[8,9,12] and any World location in the range[8..15, 8..15, 8..15]. The mapping is not unique. There are, in fact, 512 (8*8*8) locations in World that map to each location in Nether.
Contrariwise the inverse function from Nether to World is World = Nether MULT 8. Each mapping from Nether to World is unique and will always be to a multiple of 8. Nether[1, 2, 3] = World[8, 16, 24] Nether[1,1,3] = World[8, 8, 24]
Therefore, if you start in World[0..7, 0..7, 0..7] you will map to Nether[0, 0, 0] which will always bring you back to World[0,0,0]. There is no simple way to map from Nether[0, 0, 0] to World[5, 3, 7].
If Scale(Nether, World) = 8 is true then Gates must be placed at least [8, 8, 8] apart.
...EmirFassad
but.... this far appart?
I built them in the normal world.....
That far apart and they BOTH connected to the same nether portal?
EDIT: I hi-lighted the portals with those red boxes.
-ChaosAngel092