With the Halloween patch behind us we have a lot of neat features but many new bugs have been introduced to the game. Pre-existing holes in the gameplay (incomplete SMP) and bugs were not even planned to be fixed in the past patch in lieu of new features, which created even more bugs. I understand that human nature is such that we work on things that we enjoy. Coding new features is fun, tracking down bugs is not. I appreciate all the work Notch has put into this and this is not meant to be a complaint thread but something constructive.
Notch has said he will be prioritizing SMP fixes now which is a step in the right direction but would the community support a full feature freeze until the holes and bugs (new and old) have been addressed?
No, because doing nothing but bug hunt kills the desire to actually code.
Also, there would be a never ending string of people complaining that he's not introducing any new features, which is also just going to kill his desire to actually code.
Adding new stuff is fun and can counter balance the needed bug hunting.
Personally, I want to see Notch keep developing the game.
The game is already approaching Beta. At that point the amount of new Features will most likely end up much smaller. Given how now you have a dynamic environment, there's not that much left except for tweaking the effects and making new items. Personally I doubt there will be a big feature any time soon. So I don't think a freeze is required.
I guess for me I would say that if we were talking about a personal project done out of the goodness of ones heart that the dev(s) should focus on what is fun. However; minecraft has been wildly successful and has crossed a bridge where it is now a commercial product that half a million people have purchased with the intent of playing it. Terms like Alpha and Beta are just terms, and have very little to do with user expectations. Look at Google who kept Gmail in beta for years after it was a stable product and had millions of users.
Notch has made all the right moves to hire a staff and form a company around his fantastic product and is insanely busy. All the folks screaming about the update should give him a break. This does not mean they should shutup, it means criticism should be constructive and goal oriented.
FWIW I work for a very large software development company where people have a lot of fun. Unfortunately once a product reaches a certain point its not as much fun as it is just work. Most of the time spent on a project is doing the cleanup and unit tests and debugging, etc. So I would say that the motivation to fix bugs and holes in gameplay should be derived from the millions of dollars that we all collectively invested in the future of this game. Its not just one guy anymore its a team of folks who need to have priorities determined.
So I vote yes for a feature freeze until the most critical bugs are fixed and SMP is roughly as functional as single player.
No, this is ALPHA. In ALPHA, new features are added. He will work on bugfixes the most when Minecraft hits BETA. Most alpha versions of games are barely playable if at all, so we have a rare opportunity here.
Maybe a short one for the most game-breaking bugs, but otherwise no. If he has other features planned, he should work to implement them, then go for bug fixing. After all, why go through a grueling debugging process, then add a new feature? Any feature you add will generate new bugs, and some of these may require the reversal of what were bug fixes beforehand. This means wasted time. But if you have the whole thing more or less put together, you can fix bugs without worrying about changing the fixes later.
Nah, no new features outright is too extreme. He just needs to prioritize bugs/refinements higher than he has been. He should just gradually add new things as he fixes bugs, hopefully first adding in uses for things already in the game.
Personally I went with no; making suggestions is good, but this seems like a militant kind of request from my perspective.
I've read the forums and plenty of people have made their concerns heard about the things that are and are not working. It's up to the developer to respond and manage the develop of this game; we are his customers, not his employers.
P.S. If he put a feature freeze on, wouldn't that mean no health introduced to SMP??
We're testing the game for Notch. We're finding the bugs. Reverting the game to a previous state where there were less bugs he already knows about would not make any sense.
First of all, bug fixing is usually for late beta, not alpha.
Second, he's getting more devs, he can have some working on bugs, others on features.
Third, the game is nowhere near feature complete. There's so much that needs to be done, and so much he wants to do.
Last: This is the phase of development where most features are being created. Nearly all software establishes the core functionality and features during this phase. Bugs are to be expected.
This is alpha, folks. Not beta, not final. He should be spending most of this time working on features. That he fixes bugs during this phase is a nice gesture, but should not be expected.
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When all is said and done, Will you have said more than you have done?
Of course not. That's a ridiculous way to develop a game.
Look-- games aren't developed the way they are just because it was somebody's whim to do it that way-- they're developed the way they are because that's the way that works best. If you invest a lot of time into fixing bugs at this stage, then you just end up adding another feature that breaks the thing you just fixed and all of your bug-hunting was a waste of time, since you have to go back and do it all over again anyway. At alpha stage you add features-- that's it. You do as much bug-fixing as necessary to maintain functionality, but you don't waste time fixing stuff that you're just going to have to redo when the next feature gets added.
When all the features are added, THEN you get into serious bug-fixing, because then and only then can you see how your fixes affect the entire program rather than having to just take a guess at what might work alongside the features that haven't been added yet. That's far and away the most efficient way of doing it and that's why it's the way it's done.
People who can't handle that shouldn't have bought an alpha game. Just wait for the release version or deal with it. Those are your only choices.
Only for the short term to fix a few more damaging bugs (Which he did for the most part. All I can think of left to fix that is somewhat urgent are the armor not working and the portals going all over the place problems)
yes because if he doesn't address the current bugs more features will just compound the issue. make features, iron out bugs to a reasonable extent, then add more features, etc.
edit: after reading the above posts i'll clarify that an outright halt on all features until all current bugs are fixed is unreasonable. there will always be bugs. the final gauntlet of bug killing is meant for beta. at the same time i think he should spend a reasonable amount of time tackling the bigger issues that have cropped up that make the game unnecessarily difficult and confusing to play (like the armor bug and the portal mechanics). when it gets to the point where all that's left is stuff like the pumpkin clone bug or the head stuck in the sky bug (you know, **** we won't come across a lot and can live with) he should start adding more features.
No, but the focus should be shifted on implementing features that are already half way in the game, like making uses of eggs, slime balls, milk, and so on. What's the point in adding more when he can't even get what's already in the game finished up in that respect? :oP Gates for fences would be nice as well, though perhaps not nearly as annoying as the rest since they're not in the game yet.
New stuff is all well and good, but his "to finish later" list is growing and growing. Now he has lanterns added on too. Wee!
No.. it's like feature-freezing an OS that only has the mouse pointer.. You know.. We need features, content right now, more content, more features, more things to do, more! (MOAR). Oh, and damage on SMP.
So.. perhaps we need SMP and then the features and content. Yeah, that way is better.
Aplha. Expect bugs. Focus on features, remove bugs later. You can fix the bugs now, add a new feature, and your stuff that WAS working will suddenly have new bugs. So I think it makes perfect sense to do a decent amount of work, then squash bugs.
And besides, he only just grew his team larger, he probably hasn't had much time to really deal with it yet anyway.
I wish people would at LEAST wait to say "Hey Notch, fix this now!" until a LATER BETA. Just makes sense to me and the mob agrees.
Notch has said he will be prioritizing SMP fixes now which is a step in the right direction but would the community support a full feature freeze until the holes and bugs (new and old) have been addressed?
Bugs are just a part of development.
Yeah, it's great when they get fixed, but I'd rather see expanded content.
Also, there would be a never ending string of people complaining that he's not introducing any new features, which is also just going to kill his desire to actually code.
Adding new stuff is fun and can counter balance the needed bug hunting.
Personally, I want to see Notch keep developing the game.
Notch has made all the right moves to hire a staff and form a company around his fantastic product and is insanely busy. All the folks screaming about the update should give him a break. This does not mean they should shutup, it means criticism should be constructive and goal oriented.
FWIW I work for a very large software development company where people have a lot of fun. Unfortunately once a product reaches a certain point its not as much fun as it is just work. Most of the time spent on a project is doing the cleanup and unit tests and debugging, etc. So I would say that the motivation to fix bugs and holes in gameplay should be derived from the millions of dollars that we all collectively invested in the future of this game. Its not just one guy anymore its a team of folks who need to have priorities determined.
So I vote yes for a feature freeze until the most critical bugs are fixed and SMP is roughly as functional as single player.
(but i see your point and agree with it)
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Curse PremiumI've read the forums and plenty of people have made their concerns heard about the things that are and are not working. It's up to the developer to respond and manage the develop of this game; we are his customers, not his employers.
P.S. If he put a feature freeze on, wouldn't that mean no health introduced to SMP??
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Curse PremiumFirst of all, bug fixing is usually for late beta, not alpha.
Second, he's getting more devs, he can have some working on bugs, others on features.
Third, the game is nowhere near feature complete. There's so much that needs to be done, and so much he wants to do.
Last: This is the phase of development where most features are being created. Nearly all software establishes the core functionality and features during this phase. Bugs are to be expected.
This is alpha, folks. Not beta, not final. He should be spending most of this time working on features. That he fixes bugs during this phase is a nice gesture, but should not be expected.
Look-- games aren't developed the way they are just because it was somebody's whim to do it that way-- they're developed the way they are because that's the way that works best. If you invest a lot of time into fixing bugs at this stage, then you just end up adding another feature that breaks the thing you just fixed and all of your bug-hunting was a waste of time, since you have to go back and do it all over again anyway. At alpha stage you add features-- that's it. You do as much bug-fixing as necessary to maintain functionality, but you don't waste time fixing stuff that you're just going to have to redo when the next feature gets added.
When all the features are added, THEN you get into serious bug-fixing, because then and only then can you see how your fixes affect the entire program rather than having to just take a guess at what might work alongside the features that haven't been added yet. That's far and away the most efficient way of doing it and that's why it's the way it's done.
People who can't handle that shouldn't have bought an alpha game. Just wait for the release version or deal with it. Those are your only choices.
After that, new features again
edit: after reading the above posts i'll clarify that an outright halt on all features until all current bugs are fixed is unreasonable. there will always be bugs. the final gauntlet of bug killing is meant for beta. at the same time i think he should spend a reasonable amount of time tackling the bigger issues that have cropped up that make the game unnecessarily difficult and confusing to play (like the armor bug and the portal mechanics). when it gets to the point where all that's left is stuff like the pumpkin clone bug or the head stuck in the sky bug (you know, **** we won't come across a lot and can live with) he should start adding more features.
New stuff is all well and good, but his "to finish later" list is growing and growing. Now he has lanterns added on too. Wee!
My humble LPs can be found here.
So.. perhaps we need SMP and then the features and content. Yeah, that way is better.
And besides, he only just grew his team larger, he probably hasn't had much time to really deal with it yet anyway.
I wish people would at LEAST wait to say "Hey Notch, fix this now!" until a LATER BETA. Just makes sense to me and the mob agrees.
Don't you mob?