Second major issue I see with linking portals via ID is what happens when one or another portal is decactived, what happens to it's counter part? Does it deactive to, does it stay active...the bugs with this could cause more issues. If both portals deactivate when only one is deactive how can you reactive both? For instance lets say we have 2 portals we go through deactivate the portal in the nether by removing a block, okay now the one in over world is deactived. We go back to overworld and now we can't re-activate the portal in overworld because it's counterpart that its hard varibled too isn't properly a portal anymore so nothing happens....
I think we should think about portals as being single portals, ie the one in the nether is the exact same portal as the corresponding one in the real world, so in a way they lie between dimensions, existing in both at the same time in the same condition. It would make sense, because they are the link through dimensions, so to both be the same portal makes sense.
So basically if your break the one in the real world and it deactivates, then the same happens to its 'counterpart' in the nether, because they are one of the same. Then you only have to replace the broken block again, and 're-ignite' it and the same happens to the nether version of the portal.
It probubly wouldnt be too hard to program. Also it would stop obsidian 'clone' farming by making a portal, going into the nether, destroying the nether version and exiting in a 2nd portal from the nether, then jumping back through the original and then destroying the new one thats just been made etc etc etc
Your nether portal spawns:
-In mid air
Solution: Generate a small amount of land below the portal (one block high extending +2 blocks around all sides of the portal to form a hovering platform.
-In a lava lake
Solution: Generate a surrounding crust of obsidian or cobblestone around the portal, again something like +2 blocks all the way around. This will tell the player that their portal is somewhere dangerous, and the player will react how they feel is fit (by exiting and rebuilding the portal higher, or trying to dig out through the lava etc)
-In a mountain
Solution: Generate a surrounding crust of obsidian or cobblestone around the portal, again something like +2 blocks all the way around. The player can then dig out and dig until they reach an opening. Perhaps the surrounding could be something different to the lava example, to help the player work out what the problem is
There the only 3 problem scenarios I could think of.
I like AD-Edge's thinking here. It keeps the solution simple (although I'm not a programmer, so what do I know?). It also makes for fun problem-solving, IMO.
Also, Quickshot, your explanation was awesome . Thanks for the astute analysis of the situation!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Men of broader intellect know that there is no sharp distinction betwixt the real and the unreal..."
-H. P. Lovecraft
I like AD-Edge's thinking here. It keeps the solution simple (although I'm not a programmer, so what do I know?). It also makes for fun problem-solving, IMO.
Thanks mythosfan, I think the way Ive proposed would be simpler and more efficient programming-wise than the way portals work at the moment anyway. A check has to be done to check where the portal is and whats around it, then find somewhere nearby to place it, which all seems a bit complex. Keeping the functions of portals more 'linear' and straightforward would need a bit of a rewrite, but nothing Notch couldnt handle, and the resulting code would probubly be quicker anyway :smile.gif:
Second major issue I see with linking portals via ID is what happens when one or another portal is decactived, what happens to it's counter part? Does it deactive to, does it stay active...the bugs with this could cause more issues. If both portals deactivate when only one is deactive how can you reactive both? For instance lets say we have 2 portals we go through deactivate the portal in the nether by removing a block, okay now the one in over world is deactived. We go back to overworld and now we can't re-activate the portal in overworld because it's counterpart that its hard varibled too isn't properly a portal anymore so nothing happens....
I think we should think about portals as being single portals, ie the one in the nether is the exact same portal as the corresponding one in the real world, so in a way they lie between dimensions, existing in both at the same time in the same condition. It would make sense, because they are the link through dimensions, so to both be the same portal makes sense.
So basically if your break the one in the real world and it deactivates, then the same happens to its 'counterpart' in the nether, because they are one of the same. Then you only have to replace the broken block again, and 're-ignite' it and the same happens to the nether version of the portal.
It probubly wouldnt be too hard to program. Also it would stop obsidian 'clone' farming by making a portal, going into the nether, destroying the nether version and exiting in a 2nd portal from the nether, then jumping back through the original and then destroying the new one thats just been made etc etc etc
Thats acutally a good solution (now your thinking like a programmer/game designer :wink.gif: Have whatever happens to each link portal effect the other. That would as you mentioned solve the issue that I explained because if I deactived the portal by removing a block since there considered linked and whatever happens to one happens to the other the portal in the normal realm would also have a blocked removed. That solves that issue, how to program that efficently would take some work i'm sure but I don't think be to diffcult.
But this still goes back to the first problem with linking them at all, so now we don't have to just keep track of linked portal ids but also there state and how there built, thats a lot more varibles and a lot more memory onto it. It's not impossibl;e but memory is an issue notch has talked about wanting to keep a hold of, it's why hes been relucentant to do simple things such as rase the 'roof' if you will and others. Can it be worked out i'm sure it can but memory is still going to be the biggest factor in weather such a system would be perfered. Make more sense and work better absloutley but if it uses to much memory to do it, then it acutally hurts more overall. Still a good idea have to see what he comes up with, after all hes the professional may come up with something so much better lol
Thats acutally a good solution (now your thinking like a programmer/game designer :wink.gif:
Thats because I am :tongue.gif:
Or at least a hobbyist programmer and game designer at the moment, I cant and wont claim to be a professional at this stage. But watching games like this develop is very interesting! :smile.gif:
Thats acutally a good solution (now your thinking like a programmer/game designer :wink.gif:
Thats because I am :tongue.gif:
Or at least a hobbyist programmer and game designer at the moment, I cant and wont claim to be a professional at this stage. But watching games like this develop is very interesting! :smile.gif:
Lol Well hello fellow aspiring game developer/programmer :wink.gif: I'm still working on an acutall education so I can push in there to get the experince I need to be considered a professional. I can only one day to be able to do half of what notch and many other indie developers have done. Truely is inspiring and is nice to think such things out :smile.gif: And it is truely cool to think out how they did things :biggrin.gif: Really is fun, I remeber when notch first mentioned hell and the travel system I was siting thinking how he could program it to do so in a basic way.
Nice to see at least with the basics I had the right idea, math...always that evil math lol.
Personally, I think that the Nether should be generated around the portal itself, in order to avoid the first-portal shenanigans. That way, the first portal you make into Nether will always link to your main portal.
Regarding portals out of Nether, and other portals into Nether, it should work on a "closest thing works" rule. So, if you make a portal out of Nether, it should send you to the nearest portal in your world to where your "real" location is, and vice versa.
Take the following diagram:
[] [] []
[] []
In this case, both the Nether portals (under Red) lead to the same Overworld portal, since there is no "closer" option. However, the Overworld portal would only lead to the first Nether portal, since it is the closest exit in the Nether realm. If that portal was destroyed or blocked, you would go to the second portal.
But if we build another Overworld Portal...
[] []
[] []
Each portal would link to its closest substitute. The first OW and Nether portals would link to each other, and the second pair would link to each other, since their "real" destinations are the closest.
Now, in the case where you build a portal in a different chunk, a new portal would be made in the Overworld. This would preserve the explorative fast travel of the Nether realm, allowing for more interesting base locations.
Random thought: I wonder if it's possible to have two maps in the same world with Nether? Theoretically, if you travel far enough out, your exit point in the Overworld may not be close enough to your entrance point to render the chunks beyond the edge of your old map. So, you'd have two "islands" of chunks seperated by a blank nothing.
The first
That could be an Z axis issue, its the same issue but in this case isntead of the X, and Y like i explained above its the Z thats causing the issue.
I don't have exact numbers, but the Z axis does seem to get compressed. I've had one portal above sea level, and another at bedrock, and in the Nether I only had to gravel pillar around 12-15 blocks or so to get between them.
12 x 8 = 96. Sea level to bedrock = 64, AFAIK, plus another 30 odd blocks above sea level. It fits.
so all of the portals I build, go to the same Portal B in the nether...
and all nether portals take me to C
is there a way to fix this?
i hope my explanation is somewhat understandable
cheers
Blackov
I've had the same problem. My theory was that you get one linked portal per chunk. Because of the 1:8 compression ratio, two blocks in the Nether, effectively equals a single chunk in the overworld.
Although I haven't tested this yet, the next time I try and build a portal net, I am therefore not going to attempt to construct more than one portal per probably 50-100 overworld blocks or so, (6 blocks in the Nether) and I am also likely to ensure that all portals are built at relatively high overworld elevations, in order to minimise obstruction problems in the Nether.
I think we should think about portals as being single portals, ie the one in the nether is the exact same portal as the corresponding one in the real world, so in a way they lie between dimensions, existing in both at the same time in the same condition. It would make sense, because they are the link through dimensions, so to both be the same portal makes sense.
So basically if your break the one in the real world and it deactivates, then the same happens to its 'counterpart' in the nether, because they are one of the same. Then you only have to replace the broken block again, and 're-ignite' it and the same happens to the nether version of the portal.
It probubly wouldnt be too hard to program. Also it would stop obsidian 'clone' farming by making a portal, going into the nether, destroying the nether version and exiting in a 2nd portal from the nether, then jumping back through the original and then destroying the new one thats just been made etc etc etc
I like AD-Edge's thinking here. It keeps the solution simple (although I'm not a programmer, so what do I know?). It also makes for fun problem-solving, IMO.
Also, Quickshot, your explanation was awesome . Thanks for the astute analysis of the situation!
-H. P. Lovecraft
Thanks mythosfan, I think the way Ive proposed would be simpler and more efficient programming-wise than the way portals work at the moment anyway. A check has to be done to check where the portal is and whats around it, then find somewhere nearby to place it, which all seems a bit complex. Keeping the functions of portals more 'linear' and straightforward would need a bit of a rewrite, but nothing Notch couldnt handle, and the resulting code would probubly be quicker anyway :smile.gif:
Thats acutally a good solution (now your thinking like a programmer/game designer :wink.gif: Have whatever happens to each link portal effect the other. That would as you mentioned solve the issue that I explained because if I deactived the portal by removing a block since there considered linked and whatever happens to one happens to the other the portal in the normal realm would also have a blocked removed. That solves that issue, how to program that efficently would take some work i'm sure but I don't think be to diffcult.
But this still goes back to the first problem with linking them at all, so now we don't have to just keep track of linked portal ids but also there state and how there built, thats a lot more varibles and a lot more memory onto it. It's not impossibl;e but memory is an issue notch has talked about wanting to keep a hold of, it's why hes been relucentant to do simple things such as rase the 'roof' if you will and others. Can it be worked out i'm sure it can but memory is still going to be the biggest factor in weather such a system would be perfered. Make more sense and work better absloutley but if it uses to much memory to do it, then it acutally hurts more overall. Still a good idea have to see what he comes up with, after all hes the professional may come up with something so much better lol
Minecraft LP: Thread Link | Youtube Playlist | Youtube Channel
CavGunners SMP Server (I Play SMP Here)
Staff Member of Warriorlabs.net, click here for more.
Thats because I am :tongue.gif:
Or at least a hobbyist programmer and game designer at the moment, I cant and wont claim to be a professional at this stage. But watching games like this develop is very interesting! :smile.gif:
Lol Well hello fellow aspiring game developer/programmer :wink.gif: I'm still working on an acutall education so I can push in there to get the experince I need to be considered a professional. I can only one day to be able to do half of what notch and many other indie developers have done. Truely is inspiring and is nice to think such things out :smile.gif: And it is truely cool to think out how they did things :biggrin.gif: Really is fun, I remeber when notch first mentioned hell and the travel system I was siting thinking how he could program it to do so in a basic way.
Nice to see at least with the basics I had the right idea, math...always that evil math lol.
Minecraft LP: Thread Link | Youtube Playlist | Youtube Channel
CavGunners SMP Server (I Play SMP Here)
Staff Member of Warriorlabs.net, click here for more.
Regarding portals out of Nether, and other portals into Nether, it should work on a "closest thing works" rule. So, if you make a portal out of Nether, it should send you to the nearest portal in your world to where your "real" location is, and vice versa.
Take the following diagram:
[] [] []
[] []
In this case, both the Nether portals (under Red) lead to the same Overworld portal, since there is no "closer" option. However, the Overworld portal would only lead to the first Nether portal, since it is the closest exit in the Nether realm. If that portal was destroyed or blocked, you would go to the second portal.
But if we build another Overworld Portal...
[] []
[] []
Each portal would link to its closest substitute. The first OW and Nether portals would link to each other, and the second pair would link to each other, since their "real" destinations are the closest.
Now, in the case where you build a portal in a different chunk, a new portal would be made in the Overworld. This would preserve the explorative fast travel of the Nether realm, allowing for more interesting base locations.
Random thought: I wonder if it's possible to have two maps in the same world with Nether? Theoretically, if you travel far enough out, your exit point in the Overworld may not be close enough to your entrance point to render the chunks beyond the edge of your old map. So, you'd have two "islands" of chunks seperated by a blank nothing.
The first
I don't have exact numbers, but the Z axis does seem to get compressed. I've had one portal above sea level, and another at bedrock, and in the Nether I only had to gravel pillar around 12-15 blocks or so to get between them.
12 x 8 = 96. Sea level to bedrock = 64, AFAIK, plus another 30 odd blocks above sea level. It fits.
I've had the same problem. My theory was that you get one linked portal per chunk. Because of the 1:8 compression ratio, two blocks in the Nether, effectively equals a single chunk in the overworld.
Although I haven't tested this yet, the next time I try and build a portal net, I am therefore not going to attempt to construct more than one portal per probably 50-100 overworld blocks or so, (6 blocks in the Nether) and I am also likely to ensure that all portals are built at relatively high overworld elevations, in order to minimise obstruction problems in the Nether.
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=93046#p1400766
If you have any further issues let me know.
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=93046&start=30