I think lanterns should require iron to be made, because it adds a little more depth of progress in the game. That way, you would have to conserve your torches, because even though they are cheap, you might not have a flint & steel to re-light them every time. So, this again makes you maybe skip torches outside your base, and only inside your buildings, making mobs spawn right outside your door, for more difficulty (Yay!)
And later on, when you have a nice little supply of iron, you can make lanterns to replace your indoor torches, maybe put up some street lights around your base, and then you can use torches at the outskirts maybe.
but my point is, that lanterns should use enough resources, in this case precious iron, so that you can't run around and have them all over your caves, just like torches now, only it takes a little longer. That's not harder, it's just more boring.
Say if you need glass and smooth stone and coal/torches to make lanterns. so, you'd have to smelt sand to get the glass and smelt cobblestone to get smooth stone, but it's not like it's hard, or worth much more than a finite torch...
So, I say lanterns should be expensive, and an investment that you can really see the benefit of when you earn it.
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Totaly Egotrip
Yeah, that was kind of my big moment here. Sorry for boasting.
I think lanterns should require iron to be made, because it adds a little more depth of progress in the game. That way, you would have to conserve your torches, because even though they are cheap, you might not have a flint & steel to re-light them every time. So, this again makes you maybe skip torches outside your base, and only inside your buildings, making mobs spawn right outside your door, for more difficulty (Yay!)
And later on, when you have a nice little supply of iron, you can make lanterns to replace your indoor torches, maybe put up some street lights around your base, and then you can use torches at the outskirts maybe.
but my point is, that lanterns should use enough resources, in this case precious iron, so that you can't run around and have them all over your caves, just like torches now, only it takes a little longer. That's not harder, it's just more boring.
Say if you need glass and smooth stone and coal/torches to make lanterns. so, you'd have to smelt sand to get the glass and smelt cobblestone to get smooth stone, but it's not like it's hard, or worth much more than a finite torch...
So, I say lanterns should be expensive, and an investment that you can really see the benefit of when you earn it.
Notch said himself that iron is overused. They won't use iron.
I think lanterns should require iron to be made, because it adds a little more depth of progress in the game. That way, you would have to conserve your torches, because even though they are cheap, you might not have a flint & steel to re-light them every time. So, this again makes you maybe skip torches outside your base, and only inside your buildings, making mobs spawn right outside your door, for more difficulty (Yay!)
And later on, when you have a nice little supply of iron, you can make lanterns to replace your indoor torches, maybe put up some street lights around your base, and then you can use torches at the outskirts maybe.
but my point is, that lanterns should use enough resources, in this case precious iron, so that you can't run around and have them all over your caves, just like torches now, only it takes a little longer. That's not harder, it's just more boring.
Say if you need glass and smooth stone and coal/torches to make lanterns. so, you'd have to smelt sand to get the glass and smelt cobblestone to get smooth stone, but it's not like it's hard, or worth much more than a finite torch...
So, I say lanterns should be expensive, and an investment that you can really see the benefit of when you earn it.
Notch said himself that iron is overused. They won't use iron.
I'd like to see the source for that, I'm with you that iron is over used but I just want to know where you got your info there.
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Quote from caDe »
Mining with your sis might be fun, but in the future use a pickaxe.It's more efficient and humane that way.
Linkto a totally legitimate site for a search class.
I think lanterns should require iron to be made, because it adds a little more depth of progress in the game. That way, you would have to conserve your torches, because even though they are cheap, you might not have a flint & steel to re-light them every time. So, this again makes you maybe skip torches outside your base, and only inside your buildings, making mobs spawn right outside your door, for more difficulty (Yay!)
And later on, when you have a nice little supply of iron, you can make lanterns to replace your indoor torches, maybe put up some street lights around your base, and then you can use torches at the outskirts maybe.
but my point is, that lanterns should use enough resources, in this case precious iron, so that you can't run around and have them all over your caves, just like torches now, only it takes a little longer. That's not harder, it's just more boring.
Say if you need glass and smooth stone and coal/torches to make lanterns. so, you'd have to smelt sand to get the glass and smelt cobblestone to get smooth stone, but it's not like it's hard, or worth much more than a finite torch...
So, I say lanterns should be expensive, and an investment that you can really see the benefit of when you earn it.
Just curious, do you build giant structures or many structures, castles, etc and place torches up and down the outsides to light them up during the night?
I notice that most of the time, people are only thinking about the game they already have. When you start the game and make a small house, you have to just replace your torches over and over again for 10 minutes untill you reach daytime and find iron. on the first day, you shouldn't have to be rushed to make all your resources as soon as possible. lanterns are meant for making mines and lighting your house, while torches are for exploring caves or when you need a quick light source. If someone is new to the game, they would probably want to stop playing really quickly after having to replace torches all the time. of course, this also depends on how long torches last. so a lot of what i just said could be rendered meaningless if they last for days.
Just curious, do you build giant structures or many structures, castles, etc and place torches up and down the outsides to light them up during the night?
I build large bases. several bases actually. So I have like abandoned mine-bases and villages around my map. but why would you light up the outside of your base? during night-time you should be busy struggling to survive, not look up at your tower. And during the day, you can see everything clearly in the sunlight.
Ok, lighthouses, but I hope everyone by now has accepted that Lighthouses will have to wait until you get some lanterns...
Quote from Rerellison »
You're forgetting that not everyone wants to spend ages re-lighting every single one of their torches thus losing a lot of time to do other things.
Iron can get pretty scarce, it'd be foolish to do so unless Notch wanted to lose many of the less hardcore Minecraft gamers.
Uhm, about your first point. i said that too. That's why with this update, you will have to do with less torches, because constantly relighting them will be boring. So you opt. for a little more darkness and danger.
Quote from colorfusion »
Notch thinks iron is overused, probably just going to be glass and maybe stone around a torch
I believe my whole first post was about this. So pretty well done of you to not read anything of what I said. Or if you did, ignore everything I said.
And finally: Maybe iron isn't the best option, but there should be something in the lanterns that you can't get simply by waiting around while your sand smelts.
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Totaly Egotrip
Yeah, that was kind of my big moment here. Sorry for boasting.
Maybe he'll introduce a new material in the Iron layer that's needed to make Lanterns and other things. Makes it about as hard to get as iron, but leaves iron to be used for other things. (maybe this material could be used for minecart tracks too but this is hopeful enough as it is...)
I build large bases. several bases actually. So I have like abandoned mine-bases and villages around my map. but why would you light up the outside of your base? during night-time you should be busy struggling to survive, not look up at your tower. And during the day, you can see everything clearly in the sunlight.
Ok, lighthouses, but I hope everyone by now has accepted that Lighthouses will have to wait until you get some lanterns...
So explain to me how having torches on the outsides of your structures to light them up beautifully at night has anything to do with "struggling to survive"? The game is as much about your creations as it is the whole survival aspect. There will always be far more dangerous and dark areas than safe areas, your survival is dependent on everywhere you go to explore, mine, etc, otherwise building anything would be completely pointless. It's the combination of those two ideas that make the game good and appeal to a broader audience. Nothing about survival is ever lost, its a choice. If you want to "struggle to survive" then never make torches ever, never build a shelter and just spend your time fighting monsters and you would never have to complain.
Lanterns, unless they use oil, will not be hard to craft. Even if it uses smelted stone and coal for a source, that is still a quick trip to a cliffside and your spawn beach. Oil, on the other hand, would be hard to obtain because it requires a bucket.
Even though sand is plentiful I can still see a problem with using glass for lanterns. It could possibly limit you to shore side bases mostly so you can get sand easily. But I can see this not really being a problem as long as the recipe isn't expensive and torches last a while before going out. Like if the torches last about 3 days I would be completely content. I would use torches for spelunking, temp shelters ect. And I would use lanterns for stuff like the main shaft in a mining shaft, my house, paths between basses (although I'll probably just make giant torches on the side of the path with 2 stone blocks on top of each other and a flaming wooden block on the top because it looks cooler :biggrin.gif:) And torches using iron is not a good idea. Way over used for such a rare substance.
... Like if the torches last about 3 days I would be completely content. I would use torches for spelunking, temp shelters ect. ...
3 MC days is one hour. That's not much spelunking. I and it seems many other people tend to spend hours in large caves (either lost or exploring), which could easily end up being 1-2 MC weeks...
It would actually make sense if they were made out of glass instead of iron.
Currently, if you bring a stack of 64 logs with you on an expedition, you have a pretty much infinite source of light. Coal is abundant in caves, so you'll never run out of that. Sand, however, is mainly found on the surface, so you'd actually need to surface to collect it and smelt it into glass.
Yes torches will still be most convenient for spelunking, especially if they last a while, but they won't last forever.
I think lanterns should require iron to be made, because it adds a little more depth of progress in the game.
I generally do not equate difficulty with depth.
Otherwise, I can just create a game where all is does is say "GAME OVER" and it would theoretically be infinitely deep :wink.gif:.
In fact, maybe that's what you should do. Make a wallpaper that says "GAME OVER" and keep clicking on it while pretending you're playing a game.
No thanks, death may be a part of the game, but I certainly do not play games to die all the time.
If I want many lamps to light my place up, who is to say I am wrong anyways? Making places safe is just as much a part of the game. I don't see why it's such a bad thing to want to create safe places.
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When all is said and done, Will you have said more than you have done?
I'm suspecting Glass + Fish Oil... *if* fish does not become a food item.... though I'd hope it does not, as it would be too easy to obtain. Survival is survival. Glass is a tier two item so it makes sense for it to be a bit more difficult.
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[] [] <-- replace flint with fish squeezin's :smile.gif:
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but my point is, that lanterns should use enough resources, in this case precious iron, so that you can't run around and have them all over your caves, just like torches now, only it takes a little longer. That's not harder, it's just more boring.
Say if you need glass and smooth stone and coal/torches to make lanterns. so, you'd have to smelt sand to get the glass and smelt cobblestone to get smooth stone, but it's not like it's hard, or worth much more than a finite torch...
So, I say lanterns should be expensive, and an investment that you can really see the benefit of when you earn it.
Two responses to this, feel free to answer either or both:
A. Unless lanterns are made from diamond, which would be the dumbest concoction ever IMHO, it will not impede on anyone's choice to "spam" (that term makes me laugh everytime in this discussion) lanterns as they so choose. The only time they might not be able to is the first cave they mine into. But by the time they're through with just about any cave, anywhere, they're bound to have enough iron (and most certainly stone if that's the other choice material) to make as many lanterns as they need. Why?
Iron tools are not necessary to have, ever. They are a luxury. Stone tools are effectively the same worth, save for going after gold, diamond, or redstone. Iron armor isn't necessary, especially for those looking to "spam" *giggle* lanterns to secure areas, thus containing and controlling the number of enemies they encounter. Plus there's always leather armor (or gold, or diamond). However, lighting is a necessity. And to quite a few players, judging on recent forum activity, crappy useless temporary lighting won't cut it. The permanent one is the necessity, and thus if other iron-made luxuries have to be forsaken for it, they will be.
B. I have to ask after reading these forums lately. To you, the hardcore people that want death every other second in the game, no matter what you do, no matter where you go... Why does any light source "spamming" *giggle* matter to you? I honestly can't understand this. If you find "spamming" *giggle* light of any kind to make things too easy, is it really impossible to simply not do it? And does someone else "spamming" *giggle* light in their games have any effect on yours?
Because it's going to happen. It's an established game play mechanic. Even if Notch took away every light source the player could make, there would be mods for it now, and I can guarantee you more players would have it than wouldn't. Even most of you hardcore people that spout you don't like it. How do I know that? Because you already apparently "spam" *giggle* light WHEN YOU DON'T LIKE IT TO BE POSSIBLE.
And later on, when you have a nice little supply of iron, you can make lanterns to replace your indoor torches, maybe put up some street lights around your base, and then you can use torches at the outskirts maybe.
but my point is, that lanterns should use enough resources, in this case precious iron, so that you can't run around and have them all over your caves, just like torches now, only it takes a little longer. That's not harder, it's just more boring.
Say if you need glass and smooth stone and coal/torches to make lanterns. so, you'd have to smelt sand to get the glass and smelt cobblestone to get smooth stone, but it's not like it's hard, or worth much more than a finite torch...
So, I say lanterns should be expensive, and an investment that you can really see the benefit of when you earn it.
Yeah, that was kind of my big moment here. Sorry for boasting.
Notch said himself that iron is overused. They won't use iron.
Linkto a totally legitimate site for a search class.
Just curious, do you build giant structures or many structures, castles, etc and place torches up and down the outsides to light them up during the night?
I build large bases. several bases actually. So I have like abandoned mine-bases and villages around my map. but why would you light up the outside of your base? during night-time you should be busy struggling to survive, not look up at your tower. And during the day, you can see everything clearly in the sunlight.
Ok, lighthouses, but I hope everyone by now has accepted that Lighthouses will have to wait until you get some lanterns...
Uhm, about your first point. i said that too. That's why with this update, you will have to do with less torches, because constantly relighting them will be boring. So you opt. for a little more darkness and danger.
I believe my whole first post was about this. So pretty well done of you to not read anything of what I said. Or if you did, ignore everything I said.
And finally: Maybe iron isn't the best option, but there should be something in the lanterns that you can't get simply by waiting around while your sand smelts.
Yeah, that was kind of my big moment here. Sorry for boasting.
So explain to me how having torches on the outsides of your structures to light them up beautifully at night has anything to do with "struggling to survive"? The game is as much about your creations as it is the whole survival aspect. There will always be far more dangerous and dark areas than safe areas, your survival is dependent on everywhere you go to explore, mine, etc, otherwise building anything would be completely pointless. It's the combination of those two ideas that make the game good and appeal to a broader audience. Nothing about survival is ever lost, its a choice. If you want to "struggle to survive" then never make torches ever, never build a shelter and just spend your time fighting monsters and you would never have to complain.
MINECRAFT FACTS: BIG LIST OF WHAT NOTCH HAS ACTUALLY SAID ABOUT THE PLANNED FEATURES OF MINECRAFT
3 MC days is one hour. That's not much spelunking. I and it seems many other people tend to spend hours in large caves (either lost or exploring), which could easily end up being 1-2 MC weeks...
Currently, if you bring a stack of 64 logs with you on an expedition, you have a pretty much infinite source of light. Coal is abundant in caves, so you'll never run out of that. Sand, however, is mainly found on the surface, so you'd actually need to surface to collect it and smelt it into glass.
Yes torches will still be most convenient for spelunking, especially if they last a while, but they won't last forever.
I generally do not equate difficulty with depth.
Otherwise, I can just create a game where all is does is say "GAME OVER" and it would theoretically be infinitely deep :wink.gif:.
In fact, maybe that's what you should do. Make a wallpaper that says "GAME OVER" and keep clicking on it while pretending you're playing a game.
No thanks, death may be a part of the game, but I certainly do not play games to die all the time.
If I want many lamps to light my place up, who is to say I am wrong anyways? Making places safe is just as much a part of the game. I don't see why it's such a bad thing to want to create safe places.
Lest you forget, farming is a part of this game. I have an outdoor farm, and yeah mobs can trample my plants, so I need to keep it safe.
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[] [] <-- replace flint with fish squeezin's :smile.gif:
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Just a thought anyways.
Two responses to this, feel free to answer either or both:
A. Unless lanterns are made from diamond, which would be the dumbest concoction ever IMHO, it will not impede on anyone's choice to "spam" (that term makes me laugh everytime in this discussion) lanterns as they so choose. The only time they might not be able to is the first cave they mine into. But by the time they're through with just about any cave, anywhere, they're bound to have enough iron (and most certainly stone if that's the other choice material) to make as many lanterns as they need. Why?
Iron tools are not necessary to have, ever. They are a luxury. Stone tools are effectively the same worth, save for going after gold, diamond, or redstone. Iron armor isn't necessary, especially for those looking to "spam" *giggle* lanterns to secure areas, thus containing and controlling the number of enemies they encounter. Plus there's always leather armor (or gold, or diamond). However, lighting is a necessity. And to quite a few players, judging on recent forum activity, crappy useless temporary lighting won't cut it. The permanent one is the necessity, and thus if other iron-made luxuries have to be forsaken for it, they will be.
B. I have to ask after reading these forums lately. To you, the hardcore people that want death every other second in the game, no matter what you do, no matter where you go... Why does any light source "spamming" *giggle* matter to you? I honestly can't understand this. If you find "spamming" *giggle* light of any kind to make things too easy, is it really impossible to simply not do it? And does someone else "spamming" *giggle* light in their games have any effect on yours?
Because it's going to happen. It's an established game play mechanic. Even if Notch took away every light source the player could make, there would be mods for it now, and I can guarantee you more players would have it than wouldn't. Even most of you hardcore people that spout you don't like it. How do I know that? Because you already apparently "spam" *giggle* light WHEN YOU DON'T LIKE IT TO BE POSSIBLE.
Hypocritical, much?
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