--snip--
The torch thing doesn't make survival harder in regards to surviving enemies (the new mobs and hell world do that,) torches being finite make the game harder in terms of planing, resource management, strategy, etc.
Good post and I agree on most parts.
The problem is, the torch change inhibits exactly the part of the varied gameplay that does not want inhibition. Building cool stuff. Huge torchlit constructions. Yes you have lanterns but lanters are not as cool looking as torches (subjective) and more grindy to get in required quantities (propable).
Torch change does nothing to the part where we need more challenge, the exploration part. Going in to the unknown. It only brings danger to when we go back to the known. Which is tedious and not required since we have unlimited amounts of the unknown available.
I so love this nonsense. How the hell do you know lanterns don't look as cool as torches if you haven't seen the bloody lanterns yet? Even if you still feel that way after seeing them, it doesn't inhibit a damn thing unless you decide irrationally that you now can't build something you imagined just because you have use a lantern in order to light it permanently. I don't use torches because they look cool. I use torches because torches are what there is right now if I want light that isn't daylight or lava. The fact that the available light source isn't particularly attractive to me hasn't inhibited my building. Apart from that, personal taste is why there are custom texture packs. If lanterns really turn out to be that unattractive to you, just replace the texture and problem solved.
You claim the change doesn't bring more challenge to exploration. If you insist on lighting your home with torches, you'll have to take into consideration when you leave to explore and how long you stay away unless you want to find your base overrun with mobs when you return. As you explore, you'll have to consider whether you're going to return to a spot and decide whether it's worth the expense of a lantern and/or constructing some kind of a safe point. Non-permanent torches means leaving home will require more planning which = challenge.
I love the fact that if Notch hadn't announced the update, and then just did it at the end of the month, nobody would've whined. Everybody would've been happy. Speculation is cool. Whining about "ifs" is not.
Idea for shield recipe:
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(Takes a lot of resources because it's quite possibly the most useful item, especially when new monsters are released)
Unfortunately that's already an iron door. Maybe you could equip a door and use it as a shield... :wink.gif:
See, in my mind survival entailed difficulty. You know the real kind, where monsters can kill me, they can find ways into my base, they lurk in the dark corners of my mines. More monsters, harder monsters, hell dimension, all that adds to the difficulty, as well as the risk vs. reward as these creatures all have drops and god knows what a hell dimension contains.
Arguing over a wooden stick with light? Seriously? I don't light up an entire continent with torches, I just put a few around my base and my main mine area, I wall off the passages I haven't explored (yet) and watch my outer wall for threats. That's fun and challenging to me, survival will be harder because the mobs gets harder (and for the love of god smarter with some sort of ability to dig). A fortified bunker that (somehow) ends up with a monster inside it because a torch goes out, despite the doors, thick walls, thick floors, etc? Just doesn't make sense to me.
Notice I avoided talking about lanterns and torch durations? That's because we don't know those types of things yet. If I knew that torches lasted for 30 minutes I'd be pissed because that's 15 minutes down and back per mineshaft interrupting my material gathering every bloody 15 minutes. If it was 2 hours, I'd be happier because that's an hour down and an hour back, and on average I usually spend 40-50 minutes per run in a mineshaft. I usually leave due to damage from MOBs hidden in all the dark corners. :tongue.gif:
I figure there's some non-insulting commentary. I talked about what I consider survival to entail, what real difficulty is, and then finally what I would think about torches in 2 situations.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What's off this cliff? *bump* AAaaaaah, damn you sheep!
Notch updates the game to make it more challenging and fun
Tedious is not challenging and fun. It's tedious.
You say that rebuilding is tedious, relighting torches is tedious, but there is where the fun is.
Three words for you, go play Creative.
You probably say that cause you don't have a job hence tedious stuff is intresting to you.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I love how supporters of finite torches say they want a more challanging game and then in later threads talk about using peaceful mode when building."
"I DON'T LIKE THIS NEW STUFF!"
The average minecrafter has become a hypocrite :sad.gif:
The price of fame...
Personally, I like everything that makes survival more about surviving and less about picking which material you should use for your fountain.
I so love this nonsense. How the hell do you know lanterns don't look as cool as torches if you haven't seen the bloody lanterns yet? Even if you still feel that way after seeing them, it doesn't inhibit a damn thing unless you decide irrationally that you now can't build something you imagined just because you have use a lantern in order to light it permanently. I don't use torches because they look cool. I use torches because torches are what there is right now if I want light that isn't daylight or lava. The fact that the available light source isn't particularly attractive to me hasn't inhibited my building. Apart from that, personal taste is why there are custom texture packs. If lanterns really turn out to be that unattractive to you, just replace the texture and problem solved.
You claim the change doesn't bring more challenge to exploration. If you insist on lighting your home with torches, you'll have to take into consideration when you leave to explore and how long you stay away unless you want to find your base overrun with mobs when you return. As you explore, you'll have to consider whether you're going to return to a spot and decide whether it's worth the expense of a lantern and/or constructing some kind of a safe point. Non-permanent torches means leaving home will require more planning which = challenge.
Unfortunately that's already an iron door. Maybe you could equip a door and use it as a shield... :wink.gif:
Arguing over a wooden stick with light? Seriously? I don't light up an entire continent with torches, I just put a few around my base and my main mine area, I wall off the passages I haven't explored (yet) and watch my outer wall for threats. That's fun and challenging to me, survival will be harder because the mobs gets harder (and for the love of god smarter with some sort of ability to dig). A fortified bunker that (somehow) ends up with a monster inside it because a torch goes out, despite the doors, thick walls, thick floors, etc? Just doesn't make sense to me.
Notice I avoided talking about lanterns and torch durations? That's because we don't know those types of things yet. If I knew that torches lasted for 30 minutes I'd be pissed because that's 15 minutes down and back per mineshaft interrupting my material gathering every bloody 15 minutes. If it was 2 hours, I'd be happier because that's an hour down and an hour back, and on average I usually spend 40-50 minutes per run in a mineshaft. I usually leave due to damage from MOBs hidden in all the dark corners. :tongue.gif:
I figure there's some non-insulting commentary. I talked about what I consider survival to entail, what real difficulty is, and then finally what I would think about torches in 2 situations.
You probably say that cause you don't have a job hence tedious stuff is intresting to you.