2> The game being changed to add more choice to the game.
I would further posit that, all things being equal, more choice increases the potential for fun.
Couldn't agree more. More choices = better. Thus, the ideal list is:
* Conventional torches, which are always on, choosable by the menu option
* Magma, which is always on
* Everburning logs. which are always on (and will likely be patched out)
* Redstone torches, which can be turned on and off, and even automated with ever-increasing displays of complexity
* Perma-lit by lanterns, just like as now with torches
* Dark, but with torches already placed in convenient areas which can be re-lit choosable by the menu option
* Partially illuminated with lanterns in the main living areas, but with storage areas lit by less-expensive torches choosable by the menu option
Simple. Agreeable for all. Done!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Przerwap, upon looking at some code I had just written: "...Gav... That's not how programming works."
You will (nearly) never find me arguing against menu (or config file, et cetera) options. Just so long as we don't now start bickering about the defaults :smile.gif:
Getting back on topic, I hope that the new lanterns can be made with gold if they require metal. The last thing we need is another iron sink. :smile.gif:
Alright, I can deal with monsters that can climb ladders and break blocks, but the torch change is, in my opinion, just another way to complicate this splendidly simple game. Torches are a Minecrafter's lifeblood. Defect the blood, defect the Minecrafter. I think that Notch should focus his time on other things rather than messing up the most perfect feature in the game. And lanterns? What the heck? I love the medieval-fantasy theme Notch presents with torches. Lanterns would look out of place and needless. I respect that some people will like this idea, but I think I speak for a large number of us when I say that torches are great the way they are.
I see no mobs climbing ladders or breaking blocks. If you think its suppost to be simple, go play creative, as simple as it gets eh?
What I meant was that if Notch churned out a ladder-climbing, block-busting zombie, I wouldn't freak out like it's the end of the world. Also, I believe you spell "suppost" as "supposed". :tongue.gif:
I think the torch change is great because it adds a whole new level of gameplay using light. Its going to be fun to kill new mobs while trying to re-secure outlaying sections of my deep mine.
I hate fanboys like you that can only repeat like parrots one after another "I like this change" "I think it is fantastic" "it will improve game experience bla bla bla" without being able to give some kind of reasoning to your arguments beyond circlejerking while automatically rejecting the real face of the problem.
I have never had a reason to complain about this game, I think Minecraft is beyond awesome but if you people dont see the incredibly shitty gamebreaking feature of the torch new changes then something is wrong with you.
I still cant believe a genius like Notch is going to give such kick in the balls to his huge playerbase probably only because of being misleaded with fanboys like you who only enjoy trolling the community and not actually playing the game.
Good luck with your Fashioncraft and keep the trolling hard because I will drop it like a hot potato and Im sure I wont be the only one.
And no, Torch Change is NOT Fantastic
You don't like the changes? Newsflash...
No-one cares.
If this is gamebreaking to you then you don't understand Minecraft and probably should wait until you're a lot older until you play it again.
There's already a choice button... It's called the power button... You don't like the new changes then go right ahead and hit it.
This kind of reaction just creates more arguments, it's extremely dismissive and rude. Address the poster's arguments, add to the discussion or don't reply at all.
That goes for "you fanboys are all the same" broad-stroke strawman, ad hominem type arguments. Stay civil.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
End ignorance, myth and misinformation.
Below is the sourced list of Notch's actual words: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=49256
I hate fanboys like you that can only repeat like parrots one after another "I like this change" "I think it is fantastic" "it will improve game experience bla bla bla" without being able to give some kind of reasoning to your arguments beyond circlejerking while automatically rejecting the real face of the problem.
I have never had a reason to complain about this game, I think Minecraft is beyond awesome but if you people dont see the incredibly shitty gamebreaking feature of the torch new changes then something is wrong with you.
I still cant believe a genius like Notch is going to give such kick in the balls to his huge playerbase probably only because of being misleaded with fanboys like you who only enjoy trolling the community and not actually playing the game.
Good luck with your Fashioncraft and keep the trolling hard because I will drop it like a hot potato and Im sure I wont be the only one.
And no, Torch Change is NOT Fantastic
Proof, please?
I have yet to hear any convincing reason that the torch idea is BAD.
There´s creative-mode for building without risk if I´m not mistaken
You are mistaken. The "building" you refer to is a pale shadow of the building that is possible in Alpha right now. it has about 1/10th the features. No minecarts, no redstone, building on a flat plane, no this or that, blah blah. Terrible. Have you tried it before?
Also, you are assuming (incorrectly) that anybody whose end goal is building doesn't want any risk. That is not the case. I would like to build WITH risk, but with a MINIMUM of unnecessary tedium. That makes for a solid game with a goal and tension and minimum crappiness. If torches add tedium and do not add risk, they haven't helped.
The focus of survival-mode lies right there with survival, not errecting giant towers of gold or something (though that IS nice if course).
A) This is pretty questionable in the first place, until/if there actually is a full-featured creative mode. Sure, people claim Notch has promised this in the future, but that's... the future. In the meantime, making the game less and less playable for people who want to play for the challenge of gold towers (while collecting resources and avoiding mobs), means you are alienating chunks of your userbase with nowhere for them to go. That's a really bad idea, seeing as how probably half the players in the game go for the gold towers playstyle...
:cool.gif: Ignoring A for a second (let's say we definitely do want to make it super-survivaly), you haven't really backed up your claim that this change DOES make the game harder / more survivaly.
Build a box around you, hang up a torch and you have a safe zone that cannot be reached or penetrated by enemies at all.
Becomes:
Build a box around you, hang up a lantern and you have a safe zone that cannot be reached or penetrated by enemies at all.
And the only difference is that you had to click more rocks to get some iron for that lantern, or (more likely) you had to sit there twiddling your thumbs waiting for sand to smelt into glass while a progress bar inched forward, in your fully-lit smelting room. No danger, no survival aspect to this change.
Probably, I would just go make a sandwich or walk my dog while that smelting happened actually, making this update nothing more than a forced cooldown period. Fun!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Przerwap, upon looking at some code I had just written: "...Gav... That's not how programming works."
While we're at it, why don't we make it so that coal burns forever, because collecting more coal is so tedious! Why should I go out collecting more coal? I'd rather go make a sandwich, because watching things smelt before was okay, but now that I have to smelt to make permanent light, I just can't take it anymore!
And hey, why the fork should our tools degrade? Having to go get more raw materials to make new tools that I've already made is such unnecessary tedium. What the hell was Notch thinking?!
Get over it. Things, even fundamental things, will change without warning while the game is in Alpha. That's what Alpha is.
There are, at last approximation, 873 threads kvetching about how horrible this change is. This is the one thread where people wanted to discuss how it might not be that bad an idea after all. Go play in your kvetchy threads and let us have our positive discourse in peace.
It would be cool to combine a lantern with headgear so we always light up whats around us. Other lights would still be necessary to stop spawns/mark the way back though.
Absolutely brilliant idea! This should happen. Add customizable parts to your gear/give us a lantern on our heads :biggrin.gif:
I don't recall saying that. I don't think furnaces in general are very good game design, actually. How exactly are they fun? How are they better than just having the exact same recipes in a crafting table? (one coal, ten sand blocks or whatever, yields ten glass blocks)
And hey, why the fork should our tools degrade?
I don't think tools degrading is ITSELF so much "fun" as it is an incentive to go deep down into the Earth looking for diamonds. And that journey with all of its lava and mobs (especially more mobs deeper down - that upgrade is a great one) is legitimately hard and fun.
Lanterns would be using iron or sand, though, both things that spawn very close to the surface without any lava, and with relatively few mobs, and in the case of sand, can be collected during broad daylight in 5 minutes (but then a lot of annoying smelting)
If instead, there was some sort of rare material that warded off certain scary monsters (especially ones that only started showing up after an in game week or so)... only found deep down/maybe in hell? That would be a change very similar to the spirit of this torch change, but it would actually make the game harder.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Przerwap, upon looking at some code I had just written: "...Gav... That's not how programming works."
I approve this change.
Though I have a suggestion about conserving lanterns.
= torch
= lantern
We know that each torch protects you from mob spawns in a 5 block radius. For this diagram, I'll assume Lanterns do the same.
[] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] []
Ect. Just cycle between the two for long hallways. It keeps most of the place lit, while still conserving lanterns.
Oh, and I just had a brainstorm possiblity for Lantern crafting:
[] [] []
[] [] = Four lanters (Or possibly two)
[] []
Simple, effective.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Back in my day, sheep dropped brown mushrooms, and by golly we... Hated it, pretty much.
Torch change is.... YOU don't know yet cause updates aren't out yet. I'll have to put faith in the developer but my bet is that it's gonna suck.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I love how supporters of finite torches say they want a more challanging game and then in later threads talk about using peaceful mode when building."
Just had a thought about the lanterns. Maybe we're all on the wrong track thinking on how they will be built.
We're getting fish, right? Maybe we can extract fish oil, and the recipe for the lantern will be something like fish oil + cloth or string plus glass or stone?
Maybe there'll be a new low-depth metal ore, like lead, that's soft like gold, but common enough to use for tools?
Just some random thoughts on how this change could be even more interesting than it already appears to be :smile.gif:
Below is the sourced list of Notch's actual words:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=49256
There's already a choice button... It's called the power button... You don't like the new changes then go right ahead and hit it.
Couldn't agree more. More choices = better. Thus, the ideal list is:
Simple. Agreeable for all. Done!
Getting back on topic, I hope that the new lanterns can be made with gold if they require metal. The last thing we need is another iron sink. :smile.gif:
With a craftable chain for bling around the neck, oh yeah! ;o)
My humble LPs can be found here.
What I meant was that if Notch churned out a ladder-climbing, block-busting zombie, I wouldn't freak out like it's the end of the world. Also, I believe you spell "suppost" as "supposed". :tongue.gif:
You don't like the changes? Newsflash...
No-one cares.
If this is gamebreaking to you then you don't understand Minecraft and probably should wait until you're a lot older until you play it again.
Adviser of squad 8, Member of M.A.A.S.
This kind of reaction just creates more arguments, it's extremely dismissive and rude. Address the poster's arguments, add to the discussion or don't reply at all.
That goes for "you fanboys are all the same" broad-stroke strawman, ad hominem type arguments. Stay civil.
Below is the sourced list of Notch's actual words:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=49256
Proof, please?
I have yet to hear any convincing reason that the torch idea is BAD.
You are mistaken. The "building" you refer to is a pale shadow of the building that is possible in Alpha right now. it has about 1/10th the features. No minecarts, no redstone, building on a flat plane, no this or that, blah blah. Terrible. Have you tried it before?
Also, you are assuming (incorrectly) that anybody whose end goal is building doesn't want any risk. That is not the case. I would like to build WITH risk, but with a MINIMUM of unnecessary tedium. That makes for a solid game with a goal and tension and minimum crappiness. If torches add tedium and do not add risk, they haven't helped.
A) This is pretty questionable in the first place, until/if there actually is a full-featured creative mode. Sure, people claim Notch has promised this in the future, but that's... the future. In the meantime, making the game less and less playable for people who want to play for the challenge of gold towers (while collecting resources and avoiding mobs), means you are alienating chunks of your userbase with nowhere for them to go. That's a really bad idea, seeing as how probably half the players in the game go for the gold towers playstyle...
:cool.gif: Ignoring A for a second (let's say we definitely do want to make it super-survivaly), you haven't really backed up your claim that this change DOES make the game harder / more survivaly.
Becomes:
And the only difference is that you had to click more rocks to get some iron for that lantern, or (more likely) you had to sit there twiddling your thumbs waiting for sand to smelt into glass while a progress bar inched forward, in your fully-lit smelting room. No danger, no survival aspect to this change.
Probably, I would just go make a sandwich or walk my dog while that smelting happened actually, making this update nothing more than a forced cooldown period. Fun!
Makes the game more realistic :smile.gif:
And hey, why the fork should our tools degrade? Having to go get more raw materials to make new tools that I've already made is such unnecessary tedium. What the hell was Notch thinking?!
Get over it. Things, even fundamental things, will change without warning while the game is in Alpha. That's what Alpha is.
There are, at last approximation, 873 threads kvetching about how horrible this change is. This is the one thread where people wanted to discuss how it might not be that bad an idea after all. Go play in your kvetchy threads and let us have our positive discourse in peace.
Absolutely brilliant idea! This should happen. Add customizable parts to your gear/give us a lantern on our heads :biggrin.gif:
I don't recall saying that. I don't think furnaces in general are very good game design, actually. How exactly are they fun? How are they better than just having the exact same recipes in a crafting table? (one coal, ten sand blocks or whatever, yields ten glass blocks)
I don't think tools degrading is ITSELF so much "fun" as it is an incentive to go deep down into the Earth looking for diamonds. And that journey with all of its lava and mobs (especially more mobs deeper down - that upgrade is a great one) is legitimately hard and fun.
Lanterns would be using iron or sand, though, both things that spawn very close to the surface without any lava, and with relatively few mobs, and in the case of sand, can be collected during broad daylight in 5 minutes (but then a lot of annoying smelting)
If instead, there was some sort of rare material that warded off certain scary monsters (especially ones that only started showing up after an in game week or so)... only found deep down/maybe in hell? That would be a change very similar to the spirit of this torch change, but it would actually make the game harder.
Though I have a suggestion about conserving lanterns.
= torch
= lantern
We know that each torch protects you from mob spawns in a 5 block radius. For this diagram, I'll assume Lanterns do the same.
[] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] []
Ect. Just cycle between the two for long hallways. It keeps most of the place lit, while still conserving lanterns.
Oh, and I just had a brainstorm possiblity for Lantern crafting:
[] [] []
[] [] = Four lanters (Or possibly two)
[] []
Simple, effective.
Back in my day, sheep dropped brown mushrooms, and by golly we... Hated it, pretty much.
We're getting fish, right? Maybe we can extract fish oil, and the recipe for the lantern will be something like fish oil + cloth or string plus glass or stone?
Maybe there'll be a new low-depth metal ore, like lead, that's soft like gold, but common enough to use for tools?
Just some random thoughts on how this change could be even more interesting than it already appears to be :smile.gif: