The way torches are being replaced is fine. I'm guessing lanterns will light larger areas. So I guess all we have to do is use a bunch of torches before the update comes out to cash in on the change. Heck, I hope no iron is used at all. It's fine if one bar is used and makes multiple lanterns, but I don't have much iron to spare what with all my buckets and tracks...
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Because it wouldn't let me change it to my avatar.
It won't be possible. That's the point behind a transitional object. That's the entire point for the wooden pickaxe's existance. If you don't place a torch, you're going to be punching skeletons all night. And considering this is early game equipment you are deliberately not using out of your own personal arrogance or something I don't even know why, it means you'll only have early game equipment.
You are grossly wrong about the transitional objection.
Firstly, wooden pickaxes are a requirement to get cobblestone to make stone pickaxe's and further. However, you really only need to use 1 wooden pickaxe ever. It is then rather useless after that.
In regards to the torch/lantern, how would it be possible for the torch to be a prerequisite transitional variable for lanterns? You hate repeating yourself but you have a gaping hole in your point - torches and lanterns do not have any visible transitional prerequisite.
Quote from Imacleverusername »
For the last god damned time, Notch said in an audio interview that all currently placed torches will be turned into lanterns.
And the change from wood tools to stone tools, etc, takes how long? 5 seconds if you're near stone? You're comparing that to torches and lanterns? Seriously?
Even going on the assumption that lanterns are made from stone and coal (or some other easily available material), the transition will take a lot longer and still be infinitely more tedious than going from wood tools to stone. And if it's not, then what's the point in having lanterns again? Looks?
If the transition were even remotely comparable to tools, then the lanterns would consist of one coal plus one stone. A pick of any material consists of two sticks + 3 of the specific material type. And at that point, I fail to see the need for lanterns in the first place, other than decor. Here seem to be the current arguments so far:
1. Torches are too easy to make. Let's make lanterns use most if not all the workbench slots for no reason than to take more time with crafting.
-Invalidated by further responses such as "but lanterns will be made from easily accessible materials anyway like stone or glass... no iron, we promise!!!111"
2. Torch spamming is too easy, and people doing this ruins the fun on my single player game somehow.
-Invalidated by the current line of "use lanterns to do exactly what you did with torches in the first place, silly!" seems a self-invalidating response, considering torch "spamming" *giggle* is what people seem to be annoyed with for no good reason and want lanterns to make impossible...
Lanterns are little more than decor items that the player is forced to use and waste time and resources on. They essentially become just like torches, only more expensive to make, and needlessly wasting time because they will provide every single thing torches currently provide and little else beyond a change in design. Woop-de-doo-da.
Why not just change how torches look and leave it at that? Don't call them torches. Keep the recipe simple, but make them look different and call them something else. Lanterns, perhaps? ...
I have yet to see a reasonable purpose for lanterns taking over the function of torches, beyond aesthetics. It's not going to stop people from being safe in their mines and homes, and it's not going to increase your challenge or difficulty more than you have already. Want caves to be dark when you're not in them? Pick up your torches when you're done!
In fact, I can guarantee that alone will be less time consuming than relighting them for the rest of us.
Quoting because this needs to be read to reinforce the issue.
Notch originally commented that Minecraft was meant to be HARD...
If people are seriously that cut up about not having infinite light sources anymore just use lava...
I think that this is a great change... It'll force people to be more strategic with their light sources rather than just spamming them EVERYWHERE.
As has been said many times in this thread... this in no way is a difficulty change. It is a tedium and time sink change. Lanterns will just be used EXACTLY the same as torches only that you'll be spending more time doing something that previously took less time.
This is in no way a change to the games difficulty.
i dont like this because u could burn down ur house if u miss a click, i think that lanterns should still be implemented but dont change the torches just make the lanterns burn alot brighter depending on what u have to use to make one.
and if he does change this im just going to bring wood instead of torches and light them on fire they burn forever
Notch originally commented that Minecraft was meant to be HARD...
If people are seriously that cut up about not having infinite light sources anymore just use lava...
I think that this is a great change... It'll force people to be more strategic with their light sources rather than just spamming them EVERYWHERE.
As has been assumed incorrectly many times in this thread... this in no way is a difficulty change. It is a tedium and time sink change. Lanterns will just be used EXACTLY the same as torches only that you'll be spending more time doing something that previously took less time.
This is in no way a change to the games difficulty.
I fixed it for you.
Under that kind of logic Notch should move all diamonds to the surface because I can get to them right now but it will take too much time... Much funner to just run round on the grass and get 100 diamonds right?
It seems to me that... well... this isn't the end of the world.
Torches will still have their place. Both in the early-game, yes, and in caves etc. that you doubt you'll go in very often. Lanterns, meanwhile, will be in cities, houses, well-worn mining hubs.
You could also leave torches as a kind of guide-line. Since they're dark, they aren't obvious, but if someone knew they were there you could easily use them as a guide.
I don't mind the addition of lanterns, but I think that to try to go back and substitute a lantern for every torch I have placed is going to be prohibitively expensive. If you proceed with this change you are going to need to make iron a lot more common.
Controlling light in this game is huge and arguably "required" for survival. I use torches primarily to find locations, both in the dark and just when a natural stone staircase is hard to spot. The obvious secondary use is to prevent monsters from spawning in areas I have made "safe".
My biggest concern with this change is that If I can't spam torches like I do now to mark locations, I will be super lost at night. I'm thinking that relighting them over and over isn't going to be very fun. It will just seem like busy work.
What I would suggest is to make locations that are "windy" where torches are blown out immediately but doesn't effect lanterns. These locations would require lanterns.
Alternatively or in addition, make "wind" an event that blows out torches but doesn't effect lanterns. Maybe a windy monster? Big bad wolf?
My assumption is that a lantern requires iron, glass, and a torch which may not be true but if it is true... that is going to be expensive.
Thus, I think lanterns will be better if they were only required under certain circumstances and otherwise are a decorative choice.
Maybe allow lanterns to be carried by the player as a personal light source?
Notch originally commented that Minecraft was meant to be HARD...
If people are seriously that cut up about not having infinite light sources anymore just use lava...
I think that this is a great change... It'll force people to be more strategic with their light sources rather than just spamming them EVERYWHERE.
As has been assumed incorrectly many times in this thread... this in no way is a difficulty change. It is a tedium and time sink change. Lanterns will just be used EXACTLY the same as torches only that you'll be spending more time doing something that previously took less time.
This is in no way a change to the games difficulty.
I fixed it for you.
Under that kind of logic Notch should move all diamonds to the surface because I can get to them right now but it will take too much time... Much funner to just run round on the grass and get 100 diamonds right?
Next time you fix something make sure it makes sense. How is that a difficulty change again? And how is using lanterns exactly like torches and thus serving the same purpose as torches an incorrect assumption about the games difficulty vs time spent?
from a purely aesthetic standpoint, i like the idea of torches, even when using wool to make walls and such, with torches as the only from of light, most structures end up looking like dungeons or mid-evil castles. lanterns extend the number of possible visual styles. it would also be nice if they were able to work with redstone.
personally, im hoping for a receipe like + +
Next time you fix something make sure it makes sense. How is that a difficulty change again? And how is using lanterns exactly like torches and thus serving the same purpose as torches an incorrect assumption about the games difficulty vs time spent?
Don't misquote and use nonsense as justification.
As I said... If your complaint is that it will increase the amount of time spent perhaps all dirt blocks should be turned into and trees should have leaves made of :Diamond:... If you're looking to build stuff without restraint go use creative. Survival has a certain amount of tedium, that's the point.
The real question is should I use up my large chest full of coal to make torches now? Really wanna know the crafting recipe for lanterns before the update....hmmmm...
I'm personally more apt to fall on the side of folks who are speaking out against the change, but isn't it kind of crazily early to be so bitterly against it, when there's practically no real information about it?
All we know for sure, right now, is that: 1) Torches will eventually go out, 2) Lanterns will be permanent, and 3) Existing torch placements are likely to turn into lanterns automatically when the update happens.
What affect this has on actual gameplay is entirely dependant on the actual implementation details. How about let's just wait and see how these changes actually happen, instead of just leaping to conclusions about resource requirements and so on? When Oct 31 comes around, I might certainly end up in the bitter crowd, but for now I'm perfectly happy to bide my time.
Because it wouldn't let me change it to my avatar.
You are grossly wrong about the transitional objection.
Firstly, wooden pickaxes are a requirement to get cobblestone to make stone pickaxe's and further. However, you really only need to use 1 wooden pickaxe ever. It is then rather useless after that.
In regards to the torch/lantern, how would it be possible for the torch to be a prerequisite transitional variable for lanterns? You hate repeating yourself but you have a gaping hole in your point - torches and lanterns do not have any visible transitional prerequisite.
Source?
~
The July 21st Minecast interview.
Quoting because this needs to be read to reinforce the issue.
If people are seriously that cut up about not having infinite light sources anymore just use lava...
I think that this is a great change... It'll force people to be more strategic with their light sources rather than just spamming them EVERYWHERE.
As has been said many times in this thread... this in no way is a difficulty change. It is a tedium and time sink change. Lanterns will just be used EXACTLY the same as torches only that you'll be spending more time doing something that previously took less time.
This is in no way a change to the games difficulty.
and if he does change this im just going to bring wood instead of torches and light them on fire they burn forever
Nope, just means that now I'll spam lanterns everywhere. Just to annoy you.
Also: There's a difference between hard (difficulty) and tedium (waste of time as a substitute for difficulty :tongue.gif:).
I fixed it for you.
Under that kind of logic Notch should move all diamonds to the surface because I can get to them right now but it will take too much time... Much funner to just run round on the grass and get 100 diamonds right?
Torches will still have their place. Both in the early-game, yes, and in caves etc. that you doubt you'll go in very often. Lanterns, meanwhile, will be in cities, houses, well-worn mining hubs.
You could also leave torches as a kind of guide-line. Since they're dark, they aren't obvious, but if someone knew they were there you could easily use them as a guide.
Controlling light in this game is huge and arguably "required" for survival. I use torches primarily to find locations, both in the dark and just when a natural stone staircase is hard to spot. The obvious secondary use is to prevent monsters from spawning in areas I have made "safe".
My biggest concern with this change is that If I can't spam torches like I do now to mark locations, I will be super lost at night. I'm thinking that relighting them over and over isn't going to be very fun. It will just seem like busy work.
What I would suggest is to make locations that are "windy" where torches are blown out immediately but doesn't effect lanterns. These locations would require lanterns.
Alternatively or in addition, make "wind" an event that blows out torches but doesn't effect lanterns. Maybe a windy monster? Big bad wolf?
My assumption is that a lantern requires iron, glass, and a torch which may not be true but if it is true... that is going to be expensive.
Thus, I think lanterns will be better if they were only required under certain circumstances and otherwise are a decorative choice.
Maybe allow lanterns to be carried by the player as a personal light source?
Next time you fix something make sure it makes sense. How is that a difficulty change again? And how is using lanterns exactly like torches and thus serving the same purpose as torches an incorrect assumption about the games difficulty vs time spent?
Don't misquote and use nonsense as justification.
personally, im hoping for a receipe like + +
You mean this?
http://minecast.zuriki.net/cast/minecast5.mp3
Not hearing anything about torches or lanterns.
~
Source?
~
As I said... If your complaint is that it will increase the amount of time spent perhaps all dirt blocks should be turned into and trees should have leaves made of :Diamond:... If you're looking to build stuff without restraint go use creative. Survival has a certain amount of tedium, that's the point.
All we know for sure, right now, is that: 1) Torches will eventually go out, 2) Lanterns will be permanent, and 3) Existing torch placements are likely to turn into lanterns automatically when the update happens.
What affect this has on actual gameplay is entirely dependant on the actual implementation details. How about let's just wait and see how these changes actually happen, instead of just leaping to conclusions about resource requirements and so on? When Oct 31 comes around, I might certainly end up in the bitter crowd, but for now I'm perfectly happy to bide my time.