EDIT: Look, Im done arguing with you guys, this is pointless, you are obviously not going to listen to reason.
Just know, that your kind of thinking is exactly the reason why that mother****er in Norway might end up in a luxury hotel!
And for 21 years!
Are you ****ing kidding me?!
The guy KILLED 90 people, ruined families and he gets REWARDED for it by having to spend 21 years living better than the majority of the worlds population.
Imagine if those killed people were your mother/father/brother/child - wouldnt you want to kill that piece of ****?
Your logic is completely idiotic, and it makes me sad that people can actually support this kind of thinking.
[/quote]
I understand your opinions are different from others, and it may infuriate you, but please do be polite when debating amongst each others.
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I have no idea how someone could say child porn and Prostitution are worse than murder... -.-
I can understand. In some cases of rape and most cases of child abuse, you have essentially killed the person, leaving behind an empty shell of their former self, effectively putting a person through a metaphoric hell for the rest of their lives, causing much more pain and agony than killing someone ever would; I'd rather just get shot, than go through that.
"Oh, you want to have fun? NO! Being a cold heartless killer is fine, you can destroy familys and ruin people's lives all you want, but fun? NO WAY!"
Arson -> Depends on if anyone was injured/killed. If injured: they arsonist gets fined. If anyone was killed in the fire same sentence as murder. If only objects gets destroyed: Arsonist has to pay double of what the items cost to the person whose objects got destroyed.
Child abuse -> Parents make a decision: Life or Death. Does the child get orphaned or parents can prove that they won't abuse they're child. And by death, I mean the same sentence as murder.
Child Pornography -> All depends on what you consider a 'child'
Forgery -> As in like making fake $$ bills? 20+ years in prison.
Identity theft -> Same as forgery.
Murder -> Sentenced to life as a test subject for any science-related experiments. Much better than just wasting their life. And they won't get let go easily.
Prostitution -> If they're clean from any STDs then I don't see any problem with it. No pimps though.
Rape -> Same sentence as murder. People are emotionally scared for life after being raped. It's almost the same as killing them on the inside.
Theft/Burglary -> Same sentence as objects destroyed by an arsonist. Double that of what they stole. Plus 5-10 years in jail, depending on what they did.
What i'm trying to convey is the act of killing another man is never morally/ethically right and can't be justified because of that, however, you do possess the right to defend yourself, and if by chance that requires murder, than that is legally acceptable; but by no means have you done 'right'.
That is correct. The majority, if not all states have self-defense laws.
So by what you've typed here; the right thing to do would just to lay down and die?
You can't peacefully negotiate with everyone, in some cases -- you have to kill in order to save your family. Would you not agree that it is the morally 'right' thing to do, to defend your family and put an end to so called psychopath?
I'd hate to be branded a bad man for defending my family.
The death sentence belongs in the old testament, which is where it should stay. It has no place in a civilised society, let alone the 21st century, and no matter what I refuse to believe that it is justifiable to execute someone. Of the crimes, obviously, all of them are awful to varying degrees, but murder is, to my mind, the worst, followed by rape and child abuse (a blanket term including child pornography.)
Regardless, if you support the death penalty then you are, in a small way, essentially a barbarian and I cannot summon full respect for someone who supports the sanctioned murder of another human being, no matter how vile and depraved their crime.
So how about we take your tax dollars, and directly fund them to mass murderers that sit in a jail cell.
Or better yet, if a man killed your closest loved ones -- would you want to pay for that man for the rest of your life?
Tax dollars go somewhere buddy. Better to get rid of the disgrace of society and make a lesson of it -- other then pay for them.
Are we supposed to let pure evil live? Should have gave Hitler a nice jail cell where he could live out the rest of his life on our dime. Same with Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, or any dictator that you can name who committed mass genocide.
You're probably one of those anti-military thumpers, aren't you?
-Arson-Destroying buildings.
-Child Abuse-Destroying children's minds.
-Child Pornography-Destroying children's innocence.
-Forgery-Destroying economic stability.
-Identity Theft-Destroying someone's identity
-Murder-Destroying someone's life.
-Prostitution (I believe this is legal in certain countries/states? Correct me if I'm wrong.)-Destroying... well... nothing.
-Rape-Destroying virginity.
-Theft/Burglary-Destroying the right to property.
"In reviewing 30 years of deterrence studies, the strongest statement one may make against deterrence is that there is conflicting data"
You obviously dont know what conflicting data means. It means that both sides of the capital punishment fence have found "proof" that capital punishment is either good or bad. So that statement actually is bad for both of our arguments. That statement proves that the article was written by a non biased individual. So gtfo Biggs. Go crawl back into whatever hole you live in.
Housing one prisoner costs a state between $18000 and $31000 annually
And look at it this way Biggs, lets say a person that kills 5 people in cold blood gets a life sentence. Tax payers are left to pay for his sorry ass for the rest of his good for nothing life. Think of the budget crisis right now Biggs. Are you really this blind?
What if that same murderer would have gotten the death penalty, and was quickly executed? That would save a fortune for the state.
Im not wanting to type up a huge post regarding each and everything in this thread, but the
"You kill, so we kill you"
thing is horribly immoral. You are proving that killing is bad by killing. If that's not some of the most backward logic out there, I'll be surprised. Execution should only be used in extreme cases, and even then, it seems like a cop out. I'd rather see the **** punished, instead of giving him the easy way out.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"...But don’t worry, you’re not alone, there are many men like you left in the world, and some of them even used to be your friends. After all, this is America, and we only kill our friends." - Immortal Technique
At the very least we should bring back chain gangs and hard labor. make these people pay for what they've done. Prison has to be a lot more scary then it is now.
If that's not some of the most backward logic out there, I'll be surprised.
Explain to me why its backward. Is it backward to want to save the country some money by ridding society of the absolute worst people on the face of the earth? Is it right that a serial killer should be rehabilitated so that one day he may roam the streets once more, just waiting for a time to strike again?
That brings up another topic, reoffending criminals. Here are some links to stats and articles about reoffending rates in prisons:
You people talk about "rehabilitating" these dirt bags. But clearly, this does not work. I agree that everyone should be given a second chance, but not a third, forth, or even fifth chance.
At the very least we should bring back chain gangs and hard labor. make these people pay for what they've done. Prison has to be a lot more scary then it is now.
Getting ass raped is pretty scary.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"...But don’t worry, you’re not alone, there are many men like you left in the world, and some of them even used to be your friends. After all, this is America, and we only kill our friends." - Immortal Technique
Explain to me why its backward. Is it backward to want to save the country some money by ridding society of the absolute worst people on the face of the earth? Is it right that a serial killer should be rehabilitated so that one day he may roam the streets once more, just waiting for a time to strike again?
That brings up another topic, reoffending criminals. Here are some links to stats and articles about reoffending rates in prisons:
A serial killer is an "extreme case." You seem to be taking my post out of context.
Most of these people who go on rampages and kill multiple people don't care about their life in the first place, which is why plenty off themselves before the police can apprehend them. All you are doing is giving them the easy way out. Actually making them suffer for their crimes, instead of just ending their life right then, would be better.
Crimes should always be viewed upon severity anyway.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"...But don’t worry, you’re not alone, there are many men like you left in the world, and some of them even used to be your friends. After all, this is America, and we only kill our friends." - Immortal Technique
Actually making them suffer for their crimes, instead of just ending their life right then, would be better.
Explain to me how free cable tv, free world class exercise gyms, free room, free food, free bed, and everything free under the sun, is suffering? Hell, prisons the way they are nowadays, I wouldnt mind taking a vacation there for a few weeks.
Explain to me how free cable tv, free world class exercise gyms, free room, free food, free bed, and everything free under the sun, is suffering? Hell, prisons the way they are nowadays, I wouldnt mind taking a vacation there for a few weeks.
Could you quit acting like I am fine with the way prisons currently are? Thanks.
Take your pent up frustration about the prison system elsewhere. Just because I don't believe every murderer in the world should be shot on the spot doesn't mean I think they are entitled to free cable tv, free world class exercise gyms, free room, free food, free bed, and everything free under the sun.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"...But don’t worry, you’re not alone, there are many men like you left in the world, and some of them even used to be your friends. After all, this is America, and we only kill our friends." - Immortal Technique
Could you quit acting like I am fine with the way prisons currently are? Thanks.
Take your pent up frustration about the prison system elsewhere. Just because I don't believe every murderer in the world should be shot on the spot doesn't mean I think they are entitled to free cable tv, free world class exercise gyms, free room, free food, free bed, and everything free under the sun.
Wow, cant take a little bit of socratic dialogue can ya? You just need to calm down.
"...But don’t worry, you’re not alone, there are many men like you left in the world, and some of them even used to be your friends. After all, this is America, and we only kill our friends." - Immortal Technique
You would have to define murder before I consider it worse than rape or child abuse.
I defined murder as the unjustified taking of somebody's life, where unjustified means not expedient to the happiness of the whole.
Just know, that your kind of thinking is exactly the reason why that mother****er in Norway might end up in a luxury hotel!
And for 21 years!
Are you ****ing kidding me?!
The guy KILLED 90 people, ruined families and he gets REWARDED for it by having to spend 21 years living better than the majority of the worlds population.
Imagine if those killed people were your mother/father/brother/child - wouldnt you want to kill that piece of ****?
Your logic is completely idiotic, and it makes me sad that people can actually support this kind of thinking.
[/quote]
I understand your opinions are different from others, and it may infuriate you, but please do be polite when debating amongst each others.
"Oh, you want to have fun? NO! Being a cold heartless killer is fine, you can destroy familys and ruin people's lives all you want, but fun? NO WAY!"
I can understand. In some cases of rape and most cases of child abuse, you have essentially killed the person, leaving behind an empty shell of their former self, effectively putting a person through a metaphoric hell for the rest of their lives, causing much more pain and agony than killing someone ever would; I'd rather just get shot, than go through that.
I don't follow, what are you implying?
Child abuse -> Parents make a decision: Life or Death. Does the child get orphaned or parents can prove that they won't abuse they're child. And by death, I mean the same sentence as murder.
Child Pornography -> All depends on what you consider a 'child'
Forgery -> As in like making fake $$ bills? 20+ years in prison.
Identity theft -> Same as forgery.
Murder -> Sentenced to life as a test subject for any science-related experiments. Much better than just wasting their life. And they won't get let go easily.
Prostitution -> If they're clean from any STDs then I don't see any problem with it. No pimps though.
Rape -> Same sentence as murder. People are emotionally scared for life after being raped. It's almost the same as killing them on the inside.
Theft/Burglary -> Same sentence as objects destroyed by an arsonist. Double that of what they stole. Plus 5-10 years in jail, depending on what they did.
So by what you've typed here; the right thing to do would just to lay down and die?
You can't peacefully negotiate with everyone, in some cases -- you have to kill in order to save your family. Would you not agree that it is the morally 'right' thing to do, to defend your family and put an end to so called psychopath?
I'd hate to be branded a bad man for defending my family.
So how about we take your tax dollars, and directly fund them to mass murderers that sit in a jail cell.
Or better yet, if a man killed your closest loved ones -- would you want to pay for that man for the rest of your life?
Tax dollars go somewhere buddy. Better to get rid of the disgrace of society and make a lesson of it -- other then pay for them.
Are we supposed to let pure evil live? Should have gave Hitler a nice jail cell where he could live out the rest of his life on our dime. Same with Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, or any dictator that you can name who committed mass genocide.
You're probably one of those anti-military thumpers, aren't you?
-Child Abuse-Destroying children's minds.
-Child Pornography-Destroying children's innocence.
-Forgery-Destroying economic stability.
-Identity Theft-Destroying someone's identity
-Murder-Destroying someone's life.
-Prostitution (I believe this is legal in certain countries/states? Correct me if I'm wrong.)-Destroying... well... nothing.
-Rape-Destroying virginity.
-Theft/Burglary-Destroying the right to property.
Take a good look.
Or, MURDER is most serious, durr.
You obviously dont know what conflicting data means. It means that both sides of the capital punishment fence have found "proof" that capital punishment is either good or bad. So that statement actually is bad for both of our arguments. That statement proves that the article was written by a non biased individual. So gtfo Biggs. Go crawl back into whatever hole you live in.
http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/511076-signatures-by-pouncingwolf/
And look at it this way Biggs, lets say a person that kills 5 people in cold blood gets a life sentence. Tax payers are left to pay for his sorry ass for the rest of his good for nothing life. Think of the budget crisis right now Biggs. Are you really this blind?
What if that same murderer would have gotten the death penalty, and was quickly executed? That would save a fortune for the state.
http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/511076-signatures-by-pouncingwolf/
"You kill, so we kill you"
thing is horribly immoral. You are proving that killing is bad by killing. If that's not some of the most backward logic out there, I'll be surprised. Execution should only be used in extreme cases, and even then, it seems like a cop out. I'd rather see the **** punished, instead of giving him the easy way out.
Explain to me why its backward. Is it backward to want to save the country some money by ridding society of the absolute worst people on the face of the earth? Is it right that a serial killer should be rehabilitated so that one day he may roam the streets once more, just waiting for a time to strike again?
That brings up another topic, reoffending criminals. Here are some links to stats and articles about reoffending rates in prisons:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/reoffending-rates-rise-as-the-prison-population-expands-872411.html
http://socyberty.com/crime/do-prison-sentences-actually-help-offenders-to-rehabilitate-or-does-it-force-criminals-to-re-offend/
You people talk about "rehabilitating" these dirt bags. But clearly, this does not work. I agree that everyone should be given a second chance, but not a third, forth, or even fifth chance.
http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/511076-signatures-by-pouncingwolf/
Getting ass raped is pretty scary.
A serial killer is an "extreme case." You seem to be taking my post out of context.
Most of these people who go on rampages and kill multiple people don't care about their life in the first place, which is why plenty off themselves before the police can apprehend them. All you are doing is giving them the easy way out. Actually making them suffer for their crimes, instead of just ending their life right then, would be better.
Crimes should always be viewed upon severity anyway.
Explain to me how free cable tv, free world class exercise gyms, free room, free food, free bed, and everything free under the sun, is suffering? Hell, prisons the way they are nowadays, I wouldnt mind taking a vacation there for a few weeks.
http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/511076-signatures-by-pouncingwolf/
Could you quit acting like I am fine with the way prisons currently are? Thanks.
Take your pent up frustration about the prison system elsewhere. Just because I don't believe every murderer in the world should be shot on the spot doesn't mean I think they are entitled to free cable tv, free world class exercise gyms, free room, free food, free bed, and everything free under the sun.
Wow, cant take a little bit of socratic dialogue can ya? You just need to calm down.
http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/511076-signatures-by-pouncingwolf/