I'm convinced that all this "takes three hours to cross oceans" is exaggerated and anecdotal from people who just sailed off in a random direction and went straight past five or six whole continents without getting close enough to see land. The oceans didn't need to be made smaller they just needed to be made more navigable so that you make educated guesses about when you're sailing out into a big nothing and when there's another continent just over the horizon.
And remember how ridiculously short the horizon is in Minecraft. At a medium render distance you can sail almost within a football field of a continent and never see it. If you look at an AMIDST map you can see why these things happen occasionally and they look almost comical, they way they would *just* miss multiple continents in a row. If there were some clue that you were within 2K of a continent those kinds of trips would almost never happen. Even 500 block or 1K block coastal zones would really, really cut down on them.
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Geographicraft (formerly Climate Control) - Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
RTG plus - All the beautiful terrain of RTG, plus varied and beautiful trees and forests.
Yes, he said one of the things I've been trying to say for a while but much better.
And remember how ridiculously short the horizon is in Minecraft. At a medium render distance you can sail almost within a football field of a continent and never see it. If you look at an AMIDST map you can see why these things happen occasionally and they look almost comical, they way they would *just* miss multiple continents in a row. If there were some clue that you were within 2K of a continent those kinds of trips would almost never happen. Even 500 block or 1K block coastal zones would really, really cut down on them.
I would say that its a good idea to make the ocean a little bigger, with maybe a little bigger continental mass and more islands on the ocean, but true islands not the little sand/grass splotches you find from time to time... now that Jungle is a "rarer" biome it would be good to add it as an island too, maybe other biomes that might be suitable for it.
Absolutely not. The ocean was full of continents with the same generation characteristics as the start continent. This is what the old system looked like: (hat tip to PuffinPuncher) (check original post for image)
Intercontinental distances were 5-20K blocks. Yeah, that's kind of long, but crossing is still a trivial amount of time next to accumulating exp for a big enchantment or any of a number of other routine tasks you have to do over and over and over again and minecraft. The continents were huge. Even a cursory overview of a smaller continent would take 20 or so hours; detailed exploration would be 5-6 times that, or weeks for most minecraft players. Mapping the larger continental complexes (like the big swath on the right of that map) would take months of real time.
Just out of curiosity, what did you use to make that map, and what game version was used to generate it?
While I agree that the ones in that seed are 5-20k apart that's only at the shortest point. There are several examples just in that one seed you show which are easily 60K, and if you pick a "bad" direction you could sail 200K or farther without finding dry land at all. (For example, starting in the center of the map and sailing NNW you'll hit the top edge of your image and never find anything other than mooshroom and ocean).
Keep in mind that in your image the bodies of water are not single ocean biomes, they are multiple ocean biomes joined together.
From what I see the ocean biomes are still roughly the same size as they used to be, they just generate less frequently so the resulting body of water is smaller. To be honest, the perfect solution would be to add a slider to the world options so people could just pick whatever ratio of land to water they desire.
And just for the record, if it's taking you as long to hit level 30 (or even 40) as it does to sail 20 or 30k, you're not doing a very good job of earning XP. And I'm not talking about xp grinders, using those it takes 15 minutes tops to hit level 40 (less if it's an End grinder).
I just HATE how they removed the ocean biome. They might have been a little bit too big maybe they could shrink the oceans a little bit but they pretty much killed the oceans. I can't stand this update.
They NEED to put back oceans. It is like minecraft 1.7 beta and below. With nearly no oceans.
On a multiplayer PVP server that was when I found oceans to be the best thing ever. I could go deep into the ocean and find a large island to make my base on. The oceans acted as a natural barrier. Also when I am being chased by monsters, I can just grab a boat and run off into the ocean where no monsters spawned.
This is just the most RIDICULOUS idea ever with less oceans. How about if you just add an option to enable large oceans or disable them? Then all of us are happy.
The earth is 75% ocean.
Now there are no islands. This just sucks.
I want islands back, Shrink the oceans if they are getting too big but don't remove them with stupid rivers
You needa be more patient. It took me 2 days to cross an ocean but was well worth it. Islands are nice.
I was playing on a server once and dont ask me why but i had the great idea to go 13k blocks north. Great, i was there, settled up, used my bed, started some farms and whatnot then i die ... Yeah beds... have to love ´em when you get the "your bed is obstructed or missing" message and you had to walk 13 k blocks trough various biomes and going through some dangers on the way. Most of the way was land, although sometimes if the boat controls allow me, i could make a little bit quicker through rivers. I dont remember how much it took me to get there walking, but i believe it was at least 2 hours... Yeah, noob me, that wasnt the only time it happen, i had to walk it many times and i hated it.
I've already explained in another thread why I want large oceans and I think the other ocean supporters have also explained quite well why big oceans are a good feature (for me it's mainly having continents). To me, I think the ideal solution to ocean exploration being somewhat dull is having bigger boats rather than smaller oceans (or rather oceans being replaced with giant lakes).
This combined with some sort of method of directing the player to the nearest landmass, as suggested in this thread (perhaps the compass could fulfill this role? it's pretty useless as is) would make ocean travel a lot more rewarding without having to change ocean generation.
In my imagination, i picture a boat big enough to have a double chest, crafting table, furnace and a bed below a top deck. However it was implemented, so long as it went about 5x to 7x as fast i think it would make ocean travel acceptable to most players. of course a big boat (and certainly a boat as fast as i have described) couldn't work in rivers, but the point of it would be for ocean travel.
For me, if they implemented those two ideas, I wouldn't even be that fussed if they added more content to the oceans. Either way, I'll never be happy with minecraft being essentially oceanless.
Imagine the octogons making an "amourphous" mass sourounded with water, then more like this together separated by water.
If you dont know the game, each octogon is a biome and each biome gives you a resource. Each biome has a number which, when its rolled on the dice each player that is settled on the place will get the resource.
Oh man ! If you play with your friends, you wont know whos a real friend and whos not ! Things can go kinda machiavelic if you know what i mean... I love it and spent hours and entire nights with it you should try to get it and try it!
Oceans are currently pretty useless. There's no need whatsoever for them to be large, since there's nothing there yet. Maybe they'll address that in the future, but currently there are more important things. (Like actual terrain.)
Although, the new gravel at the bottom of the ocean feature is wonderful when caving. Makes for a nice escape.
Just out of curiosity, what did you use to make that map, and what game version was used to generate it?
While I agree that the ones in that seed are 5-20k apart that's only at the shortest point. There are several examples just in that one seed you show which are easily 60K, and if you pick a "bad" direction you could sail 200K or farther without finding dry land at all. (For example, starting in the center of the map and sailing NNW you'll hit the top edge of your image and never find anything other than mooshroom and ocean).
Keep in mind that in your image the bodies of water are not single ocean biomes, they are multiple ocean biomes joined together.
From what I see the ocean biomes are still roughly the same size as they used to be, they just generate less frequently so the resulting body of water is smaller. To be honest, the perfect solution would be to add a slider to the world options so people could just pick whatever ratio of land to water they desire.
And just for the record, if it's taking you as long to hit level 30 (or even 40) as it does to sail 20 or 30k, you're not doing a very good job of earning XP. And I'm not talking about xp grinders, using those it takes 15 minutes tops to hit level 40 (less if it's an End grinder).
Puffinpuncher made that map, not me, but I can tell you it was drawn using AMIDST and the generation was the 1.2 through 1.6 versions.
Yes, it's possible - *if* you're not exploring properly - to go off on an indefinite ocean voyage. Not likely - I'd guesstimate there's about a 75% chance you hit the nearest continent. If you miss, it's another 20-30K to the next possible continent, which you also have about a 75% chance of hitting, etc. But, it can happen, agreed, and it could be very distressing for a newbie who doesn't realize what you risk if you just barge off in a random direction. If Mojang had increased the land percentage to 1/3 or 40% those trips would have become vanishingly rare. And while some people would be disappointed they couldn't go Columbus or Magellan, I think almost everybody could have lived with that. But it certainly wasn't necessary to completely obliterate both oceans and the only large-scale structure in Minecraft to stop it. Far smaller changes would have sufficed.
The actual size of an individual ocean biome is an implementation detail and isn't even detectable to a player. That only matters to modders. What matter is the shape and size of the resulting ocean or lakes, not how many Java objects it takes to create them.
Perhaps I'm not doing the most efficient XP collection. But I've sat at a Spider spawner whacking spiders most of a day and I was still far from 30. So I stopped; it's not worth it to me to grind on spiders that long to get a big enchantment collection. That's how it works; you want the goodie, you do the grind. Finding continents is exactly analogous; if you're not willing to put up with the grind of ocean exploration, you don't get the goodie of new continents. It's perfectly playable; the starting continent is always huge and at least through 1.6.4 had everything you could possibly want. Just as I can and do play just fine with a limited collection of level 30 enchants.
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Geographicraft (formerly Climate Control) - Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
RTG plus - All the beautiful terrain of RTG, plus varied and beautiful trees and forests.
To be honest, I do not enjoy large oceans... In my previous server I could sail for more than an hour and not find any land. It's simply not enjoyable... >_< In my 1.72 server we still have large oceans, but they are decently sized. It still takes a long time to cross them, but I know I will find land eventually. I don't think that oceans should be more than a map width or two wide... It just feels excessive after that point.
To be honest, I do not enjoy large oceans... In my previous server I could sail for more than an hour and not find any land. It's simply not enjoyable... >_< In my 1.72 server we still have large oceans, but they are decently sized. It still takes a long time to cross them, but I know I will find land eventually. I don't think that oceans should be more than a map width or two wide... It just feels excessive after that point.
Well, that's a reasonable point. But the issue is not the percentage of water or the existence of a true ocean, it's a bad mismatch between the size of the largest map and the size of the structures you're trying to map. The largest map you can make is 2K by 2K ; continents don't come much smaller than 10K by 8K, which would take 20 (!!!) maxed-out maps to cover. And continents can come much larger; one of my main world spawns is on a continental complex almost 40,0000 blocks across. Ocean crossings are even larger than continents, although basically nobody would want to map one in detail. It is literally impossible, even if you devote your entire personal inventory and ender chest to maps, to carry enough maps to show multiple continents and their geographic relationship. That's ridiculous.
IMO the max map should be bigger and the scale of continents and oceans should be smaller. So maybe a 4K by 4K map and ocean crossings mostly smaller than 8K. You could easily do that by halfing the scale of continents/oceans, and by doubling the land/water ration from .25/.75 to .33/.67 And you'd still have oceans, continents, and a reason to explore further than the nearest Bryce Canyon.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Geographicraft (formerly Climate Control) - Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
RTG plus - All the beautiful terrain of RTG, plus varied and beautiful trees and forests.
Well, that's a reasonable point. But the issue is not the percentage of water or the existence of a true ocean, it's a bad mismatch between the size of the largest map and the size of the structures you're trying to map. The largest map you can make is 2K by 2K ; continents don't come much smaller than 10K by 8K, which would take 20 (!!!) maxed-out maps to cover. And continents can come much larger; one of my main world spawns is on a continental complex almost 40,0000 blocks across. Ocean crossings are even larger than continents, although basically nobody would want to map one in detail. It is literally impossible, even if you devote your entire personal inventory and ender chest to maps, to carry enough maps to show multiple continents and their geographic relationship. That's ridiculous.
IMO the max map should be bigger and the scale of continents and oceans should be smaller. So maybe a 4K by 4K map and ocean crossings mostly smaller than 8K. You could easily do that by halfing the scale of continents/oceans, and by doubling the land/water ration from .25/.75 to .33/.67 And you'd still have oceans, continents, and a reason to explore further than the nearest Bryce Canyon.
I would really love the ability to make larger maps. It would have made choosing a new world for my server so much easier. While the maximum was enough to get an idea of what was around it just didn't feel like quite enough sometimes. >_<
SOMEWHAT smaller oceans are all good and fine, but not if they cause the removal of true continents and oceans from the world. I love the new system of climates, but with all land smushed together into a single infinite continent it kind of loses half of its appeal...
SOMEWHAT smaller oceans are all good and fine, but not if they cause the removal of true continents and oceans from the world. I love the new system of climates, but with all land smushed together into a single infinite continent it kind of loses half of its appeal...
Well said. The ocean removal is plain idiocity.
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The EULA "changes" will not end minecraft servers.
I would really love the ability to make larger maps. It would have made choosing a new world for my server so much easier. While the maximum was enough to get an idea of what was around it just didn't feel like quite enough sometimes. >_<
You made me wonder if Larger biomes enlarges ocean biome too...
Expanding the boat system (Adding higher-tier, larger, faster boats) and re-adding the old oceans would instafix this... just saying...
Well, the people complain about long ocean crossings more because they're boring than that they're long. Though higher-tier, faster boats would certainly help, it would probably be more helpful to add features that make the travel itself entertaining. It'd be a lot more enjoyable to adjust your sail to match the wind as you followed an ocean current.
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Curse PremiumYes, he said one of the things I've been trying to say for a while but much better.
And remember how ridiculously short the horizon is in Minecraft. At a medium render distance you can sail almost within a football field of a continent and never see it. If you look at an AMIDST map you can see why these things happen occasionally and they look almost comical, they way they would *just* miss multiple continents in a row. If there were some clue that you were within 2K of a continent those kinds of trips would almost never happen. Even 500 block or 1K block coastal zones would really, really cut down on them.
Geographicraft (formerly Climate Control) - Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
RTG plus - All the beautiful terrain of RTG, plus varied and beautiful trees and forests.
I would say that its a good idea to make the ocean a little bigger, with maybe a little bigger continental mass and more islands on the ocean, but true islands not the little sand/grass splotches you find from time to time... now that Jungle is a "rarer" biome it would be good to add it as an island too, maybe other biomes that might be suitable for it.
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Curse PremiumShipwrecks and ATLANTIS!
Just out of curiosity, what did you use to make that map, and what game version was used to generate it?
While I agree that the ones in that seed are 5-20k apart that's only at the shortest point. There are several examples just in that one seed you show which are easily 60K, and if you pick a "bad" direction you could sail 200K or farther without finding dry land at all. (For example, starting in the center of the map and sailing NNW you'll hit the top edge of your image and never find anything other than mooshroom and ocean).
Keep in mind that in your image the bodies of water are not single ocean biomes, they are multiple ocean biomes joined together.
From what I see the ocean biomes are still roughly the same size as they used to be, they just generate less frequently so the resulting body of water is smaller. To be honest, the perfect solution would be to add a slider to the world options so people could just pick whatever ratio of land to water they desire.
And just for the record, if it's taking you as long to hit level 30 (or even 40) as it does to sail 20 or 30k, you're not doing a very good job of earning XP. And I'm not talking about xp grinders, using those it takes 15 minutes tops to hit level 40 (less if it's an End grinder).
They NEED to put back oceans. It is like minecraft 1.7 beta and below. With nearly no oceans.
On a multiplayer PVP server that was when I found oceans to be the best thing ever. I could go deep into the ocean and find a large island to make my base on. The oceans acted as a natural barrier. Also when I am being chased by monsters, I can just grab a boat and run off into the ocean where no monsters spawned.
This is just the most RIDICULOUS idea ever with less oceans. How about if you just add an option to enable large oceans or disable them? Then all of us are happy.
The earth is 75% ocean.
Now there are no islands. This just sucks.
I want islands back, Shrink the oceans if they are getting too big but don't remove them with stupid rivers
You needa be more patient. It took me 2 days to cross an ocean but was well worth it. Islands are nice.
The EULA "changes" will not end minecraft servers.
I was playing on a server once and dont ask me why but i had the great idea to go 13k blocks north. Great, i was there, settled up, used my bed, started some farms and whatnot then i die ... Yeah beds... have to love ´em when you get the "your bed is obstructed or missing" message and you had to walk 13 k blocks trough various biomes and going through some dangers on the way. Most of the way was land, although sometimes if the boat controls allow me, i could make a little bit quicker through rivers. I dont remember how much it took me to get there walking, but i believe it was at least 2 hours... Yeah, noob me, that wasnt the only time it happen, i had to walk it many times and i hated it.
This combined with some sort of method of directing the player to the nearest landmass, as suggested in this thread (perhaps the compass could fulfill this role? it's pretty useless as is) would make ocean travel a lot more rewarding without having to change ocean generation.
In my imagination, i picture a boat big enough to have a double chest, crafting table, furnace and a bed below a top deck. However it was implemented, so long as it went about 5x to 7x as fast i think it would make ocean travel acceptable to most players. of course a big boat (and certainly a boat as fast as i have described) couldn't work in rivers, but the point of it would be for ocean travel.
For me, if they implemented those two ideas, I wouldn't even be that fussed if they added more content to the oceans. Either way, I'll never be happy with minecraft being essentially oceanless.
That is one kinky looking game
Oh man ! If you play with your friends, you wont know whos a real friend and whos not ! Things can go kinda machiavelic if you know what i mean... I love it and spent hours and entire nights with it you should try to get it and try it!
Back to the topic...
No, and no... Shiprecks might be but atlantis i dont think so...
I would say more natural islands, maybe a shipreck as an event (structure) you can find on the water, maybe even underwater or kinda floating...
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Curse PremiumAlthough, the new gravel at the bottom of the ocean feature is wonderful when caving. Makes for a nice escape.
...but that's just like, my opinion, man.
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Curse PremiumPuffinpuncher made that map, not me, but I can tell you it was drawn using AMIDST and the generation was the 1.2 through 1.6 versions.
Yes, it's possible - *if* you're not exploring properly - to go off on an indefinite ocean voyage. Not likely - I'd guesstimate there's about a 75% chance you hit the nearest continent. If you miss, it's another 20-30K to the next possible continent, which you also have about a 75% chance of hitting, etc. But, it can happen, agreed, and it could be very distressing for a newbie who doesn't realize what you risk if you just barge off in a random direction. If Mojang had increased the land percentage to 1/3 or 40% those trips would have become vanishingly rare. And while some people would be disappointed they couldn't go Columbus or Magellan, I think almost everybody could have lived with that. But it certainly wasn't necessary to completely obliterate both oceans and the only large-scale structure in Minecraft to stop it. Far smaller changes would have sufficed.
The actual size of an individual ocean biome is an implementation detail and isn't even detectable to a player. That only matters to modders. What matter is the shape and size of the resulting ocean or lakes, not how many Java objects it takes to create them.
Perhaps I'm not doing the most efficient XP collection. But I've sat at a Spider spawner whacking spiders most of a day and I was still far from 30. So I stopped; it's not worth it to me to grind on spiders that long to get a big enchantment collection. That's how it works; you want the goodie, you do the grind. Finding continents is exactly analogous; if you're not willing to put up with the grind of ocean exploration, you don't get the goodie of new continents. It's perfectly playable; the starting continent is always huge and at least through 1.6.4 had everything you could possibly want. Just as I can and do play just fine with a limited collection of level 30 enchants.
Geographicraft (formerly Climate Control) - Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
RTG plus - All the beautiful terrain of RTG, plus varied and beautiful trees and forests.
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Curse PremiumWell, that's a reasonable point. But the issue is not the percentage of water or the existence of a true ocean, it's a bad mismatch between the size of the largest map and the size of the structures you're trying to map. The largest map you can make is 2K by 2K ; continents don't come much smaller than 10K by 8K, which would take 20 (!!!) maxed-out maps to cover. And continents can come much larger; one of my main world spawns is on a continental complex almost 40,0000 blocks across. Ocean crossings are even larger than continents, although basically nobody would want to map one in detail. It is literally impossible, even if you devote your entire personal inventory and ender chest to maps, to carry enough maps to show multiple continents and their geographic relationship. That's ridiculous.
IMO the max map should be bigger and the scale of continents and oceans should be smaller. So maybe a 4K by 4K map and ocean crossings mostly smaller than 8K. You could easily do that by halfing the scale of continents/oceans, and by doubling the land/water ration from .25/.75 to .33/.67 And you'd still have oceans, continents, and a reason to explore further than the nearest Bryce Canyon.
Geographicraft (formerly Climate Control) - Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
RTG plus - All the beautiful terrain of RTG, plus varied and beautiful trees and forests.
I would really love the ability to make larger maps. It would have made choosing a new world for my server so much easier. While the maximum was enough to get an idea of what was around it just didn't feel like quite enough sometimes. >_<
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Curse PremiumWell said. The ocean removal is plain idiocity.
The EULA "changes" will not end minecraft servers.
You made me wonder if Larger biomes enlarges ocean biome too...
Well, the people complain about long ocean crossings more because they're boring than that they're long. Though higher-tier, faster boats would certainly help, it would probably be more helpful to add features that make the travel itself entertaining. It'd be a lot more enjoyable to adjust your sail to match the wind as you followed an ocean current.