...
But the issue is when new content creates new bugs, when they really need to be fixing existing bugs (and re-writing code, as you said) to be able to get the Mod API out. Am I suggesting that the Mod API is the most important thing they can work on? No. But they did promise it, millions of people are waiting for it, and they have said they can't finish it until they fix other things first. So creating things that are moving them away from that (by creating new bugs that need to be squished), puts them in danger of never actually being able to release a Mod API. If they take a step back for every step forward, they aren't going to get anywhere.
Well said. This pretty much mirrors my feelings about it. Of course, none of us work there, so there's a certain amount of supposition.
It amuses me to see people talking about "when Minecraft is finished". Will that day ever come? Isn't constant updating part of the game now? And if it did come, would it mean the game was finished in all senses?
If you're an optimist, never. Lying requires intent. Besides Notch admitting he hadn't worked on it before the release came out, all I've seen is optimism from the team.
So, your position is they aren't lying, just incompetent?
(If you object to that term, then what do you call saying the Mod API would be out in the next release, then delaying until the next release, then the next next release, then the next, next, next release, for 2 years? I call it incompetence.
incompetent [ɪnˈkɒmpɪtənt]adj 1. not possessing the necessary ability, skill, etc. to do or carry out a task; incapable)
Oh, also, dont even get me started on what a half assed dimension the End is.
The End was supposed to be just that. The end. You really expected that the End dimension would actually be so complex like that?
It was meant to be a BOSS ARENA, not some place to explore. All you're going to find are Endermen and that damned dragon that destroys everything except the arena itself.
And stop hating on Mojang as if the company was Valve or something. They're working hard on this stuff and you should appreciate what a good job they do for us everyday to keep the game new and fun. :\
So, your position is they aren't lying, just incompetent?
(If you object to that term, then what do you call saying the Mod API would be out in the next release, then dealying until the next release, then the next next release, then the next, next, next release, for 2 years? I call it incompetence.
incompetent [ɪnˈkɒmpɪtənt]adj 1. not possessing the necessary ability, skill, etc. to do or carry out a task; incapable)
They aren't lying, just optimistic about how much time it would take to get the project done the way they want it to be. It's not incompetence, it's underestimating how much time the task and sub-tasks take to complete. It appears like the background parts of the updates are gearing towards the overall goal of having a supposedly amazing module-like API. They're able to carry out the task, its just taking long than expected...like many things.
I will admit that on a professional level, that maybe the Minecraft development team (mostly Jeb and Dinnerbone) shouldn't post musings on when such an anticipated feature is going to be released. Mojang has been unprofessional in that regard.
It's not incompetence, it's underestimating how much time the task and sub-tasks take to complete.
My point is, by not being able to properly and accurately estimate how long it will take (and continuing to do so over and over and over for 2 years!), they are "not possessing the necessary ability, skill, etc. to do or carry out a task". Thus, they are incompetent.
I mean, if they said it would be out in version 'x', then had to delay it it version 'x+1', that's fine. Stuff happens.
If they then delayed it to version 'x+2', I'd be understanding- it is a lot of work, and they underestimated it.
A third delay? Harrumph. They need to get their act together over there.
...
...
...
Two+ years later. They have missed every single goal they have set, even after announcing they were 'almost finished' with it. They have made several announcements that they will 'focus on it' for the next release, only to not do so. Combine this with all the other features that they were going to add, but never did, and...
Incompetent.
Now, don't get me wrong. I love the game. I just think the programmers need to focus more and actually DO they stuff they say they are going to do. Is that a bad thing?? Does that make me a bad person??
My point is, by not being able to properly and accurately estimate how long it will take (and continuing to do so over and over and over for 2 years!), they are "not possessing the necessary ability, skill, etc. to do or carry out a task". Thus, they are incompetent.
I mean, if they said it would be out in version 'x', then had to delay it it version 'x+1', that's fine. Stuff happens.
If they then delayed it to version 'x+2', I'd be understanding- it is a lot of work, and they underestimated it.
A third delay? Harrumph. They need to get their act together over there.
...
...
...
Two+ years later. They have missed every single goal they have set, even after announcing they were 'almost finished' with it. They have made several announcements that they will 'focus on it' for the next release, only to not do so. Combine this with all the other features that they were going to add, but never did, and...
Incompetent.
Now, don't get me wrong. I love the game. I just think the programmers need to focus more and actually DO they stuff they say they are going to do. Is that a bad thing?? Does that make me a bad person??
Okay then since they don't have the skill to do it then i guess the merge, the terrain sliders, the new rendering system, the new redstone, and the new sound engine are all pointless right? I mean its not like they have been working on it literally the entire time or anything while still giving us plenty of content.
Also can I see when they said it would be finished? Last I knew they said it was a lot of work and they DIDN'T give us a date because they weren't sure. Stop trying to use old information to support you argument, it doesn't help.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Don't play vanilla? You don't know **** about minecraft.
My point is, by not being able to properly and accurately estimate how long it will take (and continuing to do so over and over and over for 2 years!), they are "not possessing the necessary ability, skill, etc. to do or carry out a task". Thus, they are incompetent.
You're using incompetence wrong. Since they are working on things that directly relate and, as stated by them, are needed to get the type of API they want up they cannot logically be called incompetent.
Optimistic with estimated time of completions early on, yes. Unprofessional with stating said estimated completion time before a major planning meeting or without intending to work on it (Notch), also yes. But to say the current team is incompetent while they're working on it is ridiculous.
Seriously, if your definition of incompetence involves not making reasonable estimates on when things will be completed you're going to find life is filled with "incompetent" people.
I mean, if they said it would be out in version 'x', then had to delay it it version 'x+1', that's fine. Stuff happens.
If they then delayed it to version 'x+2', I'd be understanding- it is a lot of work, and they underestimated it.
A third delay? Harrumph. They need to get their act together over there.
...
...
...
Two+ years later. They have missed every single goal they have set, even after announcing they were 'almost finished' with it. They have made several announcements that they will 'focus on it' for the next release, only to not do so. Combine this with all the other features that they were going to add, but never did, and...
Incompetent.
You can't say they've been working on this for two years. Regardless of earlier evidence you posted, Notch never worked on an API. He admitted that he let that slip a few days before the release. http://notch.tumblr....2848184253/soon
The next we hear about it is that Jeb wants to get it done by last March, I believe. He then started testing the waters as lead developer by making a couple of updates. After 1.2.5, the initial plan, as stated by Dinnerbone, was to complete it by 1.3. After that post, there apparently was a meeting that decided that there was a ton of work to do, such as the merge. The Mod API was then pushed back to, as many of us believed, 1.4 when that apparently wasn't the intent. https://twitter.com/...75831037202432
So, since Jeb took the reins, we have about one or two direct statements of delay. Notch's quotes do not count since he obviously wasn't working on it when he was in direct control of the game. So, the API has only been worked on for about a year.
Now, don't get me wrong. I love the game. I just think the programmers need to focus more and actually DO they stuff they say they are going to do. Is that a bad thing?? Does that make me a bad person??
They are doing what they say they're going to do. Part of the problem is that people mishear, misinterpret, or get information from hearsay. It's not a bad thing but you're playing with an incomplete deck when it comes to quotes. That's what is affecting your judgement. I've seen your previous posts, you don't even mention or quote Notch's blog post that I've posted or the other twitter links. That doesn't make you a bad person, I'm not sure why you even mentioned it. It just makes you incompetent at research and misinformed.
Also can I see when they said it would be finished? Last I knew they said it was a lot of work and they DIDN'T give us a date because they weren't sure.
I already posted a quote of another post in which several statements regarding the api were consolidated. A few choice ones:
With Beta comes...adding proper modding support with a stable API -Dec 2010
we’ll get the modding api out as soon as possible after 1.7 has been released -June 2011
After 1.8, we’ll have to start crunching for the full release in November. That includes finishing up the mod api, - Also June 2011
So, they said it would come during BETA. They said "after 1.7" (Beta 1.7), then later the same month, just before 1.7 came out, they pushed it off to "the full release". Well, that came and went, Still no API, even though they were at the time, "finishing it up".
Read that again- it was almost DONE, they just needed to "finish it up" at that point. And that was a year and a half ago.
So, what happened to it??
One more time, for all of you who are reading this slowly: A year and a half ago, the were "finishing" the API. So the possibilities are:
-They stopped working on it before actually finishing
-They finished it, but never released it
-They lied about it being almost done to begin with
none of these three possibilities reflects well on them.
Stop trying to use old information to support you argument, it doesn't help.
It proves they DID say they'd do it, then DIDN'T do it.
I already posted a quote of another post in which several statements regarding the api were consolidated. A few choice ones:
With Beta comes...adding proper modding support with a stable API -Dec 2010
we’ll get the modding api out as soon as possible after 1.7 has been released -June 2011
After 1.8, we’ll have to start crunching for the full release in November. That includes finishing up the mod api, - Also June 2011
So, they said it would come during BETA. They said "after 1.7" (Beta 1.7), then later the same month, just before 1.7 came out, they pushed it off to "the full release". Well, that came and went, Still no API, even though they were at the time, "finishing it up".
Read that again- it was almost DONE, they just needed to "finish it up" at that point. And that was a year and a half ago.
So, what happened to it??
One more time, for all of you who are reading this slowly: A year and a half ago, the were "finishing" the API. So the possibilities are:
-They stopped working on it before actually finishing
-They finished it, but never released it
-They lied about it being almost done to begin with
none of these three possibilities reflects well on them.
It proves they DID say they'd do it, then DIDN'T do it.
You can't say they've been working on this for two years. Regardless of earlier evidence you posted, Notch never worked on an API. He admitted that he let that slip a few days before the release. http://notch.tumblr....2848184253/soon
I guess that means Notch lied then. Happy?
Either way, none of the info you posted has any relevance to the current state of the minecraft development team. Notch hasn't worked on the game in some time so stop acting like he's still making it and things he said years ago have any traction in the recent updates forum.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Don't play vanilla? You don't know **** about minecraft.
The blatant fanboyism in this thread makes me giggle.
If they really are working on it now, and putting a concerted effort into it, with the intent to actually get it done sometime before we all die of old age, then that's great. But you're going to have to forgive me if I choose not to believe it until I see it.
If they really are working on it now, and putting a concerted effort into it, with the intent to actually get it done sometime before we all die of old age, then that's great. But you're going to have to forgive me if I choose not to believe it until I see it.
I'm actually disappointed he didn't read my post. Anyways, Notch did lie. He certainly didn't have mod support as a high priority as evidenced by him not actually working on it.
It's clear that non of you who are complaining have ever worked as coders. And that you have ESPECIALLY not ever had to work with an API that was released before it was ready.
An API is something you want to get right BEFORE the initial release. Other things, you can make dramatic changes to later on; and API you want to keep backwards compatible as long as possible. That means when you're making dramatic changes (like, say, oh, re-writing the lighting engine, maybe?) it's highly beneficial to all concerned to wait until those changes are finalized BEFORE releasing the API.
Releasing an API before it -- or the thing that it is granting access to -- is ready is far worse than not releasing an API at all.
The fact that they do so many bug-fix-only snapshots, and the fact that they are waiting to release the API, is a sign to me that they are doing things RIGHT.
Well said. This pretty much mirrors my feelings about it. Of course, none of us work there, so there's a certain amount of supposition.
It amuses me to see people talking about "when Minecraft is finished". Will that day ever come? Isn't constant updating part of the game now? And if it did come, would it mean the game was finished in all senses?
So, your position is they aren't lying, just incompetent?
(If you object to that term, then what do you call saying the Mod API would be out in the next release, then delaying until the next release, then the next next release, then the next, next, next release, for 2 years? I call it incompetence.
incompetent [ɪnˈkɒmpɪtənt]adj
1. not possessing the necessary ability, skill, etc. to do or carry out a task; incapable)
The End was supposed to be just that. The end. You really expected that the End dimension would actually be so complex like that?
It was meant to be a BOSS ARENA, not some place to explore. All you're going to find are Endermen and that damned dragon that destroys everything except the arena itself.
And stop hating on Mojang as if the company was Valve or something. They're working hard on this stuff and you should appreciate what a good job they do for us everyday to keep the game new and fun. :\
They aren't lying, just optimistic about how much time it would take to get the project done the way they want it to be. It's not incompetence, it's underestimating how much time the task and sub-tasks take to complete. It appears like the background parts of the updates are gearing towards the overall goal of having a supposedly amazing module-like API. They're able to carry out the task, its just taking long than expected...like many things.
I will admit that on a professional level, that maybe the Minecraft development team (mostly Jeb and Dinnerbone) shouldn't post musings on when such an anticipated feature is going to be released. Mojang has been unprofessional in that regard.
My point is, by not being able to properly and accurately estimate how long it will take (and continuing to do so over and over and over for 2 years!), they are "not possessing the necessary ability, skill, etc. to do or carry out a task". Thus, they are incompetent.
I mean, if they said it would be out in version 'x', then had to delay it it version 'x+1', that's fine. Stuff happens.
If they then delayed it to version 'x+2', I'd be understanding- it is a lot of work, and they underestimated it.
A third delay? Harrumph. They need to get their act together over there.
...
...
...
Two+ years later. They have missed every single goal they have set, even after announcing they were 'almost finished' with it. They have made several announcements that they will 'focus on it' for the next release, only to not do so. Combine this with all the other features that they were going to add, but never did, and...
Incompetent.
Now, don't get me wrong. I love the game. I just think the programmers need to focus more and actually DO they stuff they say they are going to do. Is that a bad thing?? Does that make me a bad person??
Okay then since they don't have the skill to do it then i guess the merge, the terrain sliders, the new rendering system, the new redstone, and the new sound engine are all pointless right? I mean its not like they have been working on it literally the entire time or anything while still giving us plenty of content.
Also can I see when they said it would be finished? Last I knew they said it was a lot of work and they DIDN'T give us a date because they weren't sure. Stop trying to use old information to support you argument, it doesn't help.
You're using incompetence wrong. Since they are working on things that directly relate and, as stated by them, are needed to get the type of API they want up they cannot logically be called incompetent.
Optimistic with estimated time of completions early on, yes. Unprofessional with stating said estimated completion time before a major planning meeting or without intending to work on it (Notch), also yes. But to say the current team is incompetent while they're working on it is ridiculous.
Seriously, if your definition of incompetence involves not making reasonable estimates on when things will be completed you're going to find life is filled with "incompetent" people.
You can't say they've been working on this for two years. Regardless of earlier evidence you posted, Notch never worked on an API. He admitted that he let that slip a few days before the release. http://notch.tumblr....2848184253/soon
The next we hear about it is that Jeb wants to get it done by last March, I believe. He then started testing the waters as lead developer by making a couple of updates. After 1.2.5, the initial plan, as stated by Dinnerbone, was to complete it by 1.3. After that post, there apparently was a meeting that decided that there was a ton of work to do, such as the merge. The Mod API was then pushed back to, as many of us believed, 1.4 when that apparently wasn't the intent. https://twitter.com/...75831037202432
As for 1.5, Dinnerbone stated that they never said the API was going to be in it. https://twitter.com/...733076738682881
So, since Jeb took the reins, we have about one or two direct statements of delay. Notch's quotes do not count since he obviously wasn't working on it when he was in direct control of the game. So, the API has only been worked on for about a year.
They are doing what they say they're going to do. Part of the problem is that people mishear, misinterpret, or get information from hearsay. It's not a bad thing but you're playing with an incomplete deck when it comes to quotes. That's what is affecting your judgement. I've seen your previous posts, you don't even mention or quote Notch's blog post that I've posted or the other twitter links. That doesn't make you a bad person, I'm not sure why you even mentioned it. It just makes you incompetent at research and misinformed.
I already posted a quote of another post in which several statements regarding the api were consolidated. A few choice ones:
With Beta comes...adding proper modding support with a stable API -Dec 2010
we’ll get the modding api out as soon as possible after 1.7 has been released -June 2011
After 1.8, we’ll have to start crunching for the full release in November. That includes finishing up the mod api, - Also June 2011
So, they said it would come during BETA. They said "after 1.7" (Beta 1.7), then later the same month, just before 1.7 came out, they pushed it off to "the full release". Well, that came and went, Still no API, even though they were at the time, "finishing it up".
Read that again- it was almost DONE, they just needed to "finish it up" at that point. And that was a year and a half ago.
So, what happened to it??
One more time, for all of you who are reading this slowly: A year and a half ago, the were "finishing" the API. So the possibilities are:
-They stopped working on it before actually finishing
-They finished it, but never released it
-They lied about it being almost done to begin with
none of these three possibilities reflects well on them.
It proves they DID say they'd do it, then DIDN'T do it.
The post above has what you're looking for.
I guess that means Notch lied then. Happy?
Either way, none of the info you posted has any relevance to the current state of the minecraft development team. Notch hasn't worked on the game in some time so stop acting like he's still making it and things he said years ago have any traction in the recent updates forum.
Not really. I'd prefer he gave us what he said he would.
And I'd prefer the current team follow through with what they said, as well.
If they really are working on it now, and putting a concerted effort into it, with the intent to actually get it done sometime before we all die of old age, then that's great. But you're going to have to forgive me if I choose not to believe it until I see it.
It will come out when it's done, don't expect it anytime soon.
Praise be to Spode.
Partly true, it's not being worked on right now. Just doing the required work first then we should see some serious work put into it.
Hopefully the rendering system will be in 1.5, but until that and a few other things are covered don't expect an API for a bit.
Fair enough.
I'm actually disappointed he didn't read my post. Anyways, Notch did lie. He certainly didn't have mod support as a high priority as evidenced by him not actually working on it.
Great, it's already starting. Now when it's not in 1.6, everyone will quote this post and say it's Dinnerbone in disguise making a promise.
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An API is something you want to get right BEFORE the initial release. Other things, you can make dramatic changes to later on; and API you want to keep backwards compatible as long as possible. That means when you're making dramatic changes (like, say, oh, re-writing the lighting engine, maybe?) it's highly beneficial to all concerned to wait until those changes are finalized BEFORE releasing the API.
Releasing an API before it -- or the thing that it is granting access to -- is ready is far worse than not releasing an API at all.
The fact that they do so many bug-fix-only snapshots, and the fact that they are waiting to release the API, is a sign to me that they are doing things RIGHT.