So you want them to release a mod API and then work on recoding the other engine parts?
I want them to follow through on what they say they are going to do. If they had done so, we'd have had the API YEARS ago. We'd also have Red Dragons (tamable/ridable), fish swimming in the oceans, and a lot of other things.
You seem to be missing the point. An API is only useful once they finish up the other engine related things. There is no use in creating an API when you can dump it the next update.
Well, then they should be finishing up the engine-related things. I don't seem them doing that though. I see them adding hoppers and tnt minecarts and screwing with redstone and bonemeal, and all but ignoring core engine issues. Not that I'm against adding new features, but they are never going to fix engine issues and bugs if all they want to do is play with the fancy new toys.
Well, then they should be finishing up the engine-related things. I don't seem them doing that though. I see them adding hoppers and tnt minecarts and screwing with redstone and bonemeal, and all but ignoring core engine issues. Not that I'm against adding new features, but they are never going to fix engine issues and bugs if all they want to do is play with the fancy new toys.
This.
And why did Jeb pretty much stop work on Skylands any how? ive always wanted to know that.
You seem to be missing the point. An API is only useful once they finish up the other engine related things. There is no use in creating an API when you can dump it the next update. You'll be spending a lot of time developing something that only has a lifetime of a couple weeks. I'd rather have them take their time and then release the API than them rushing it and coming up with some half finished product that will change and break compatibility next update. The drama that would create, oh god.
Mod API has been promised for over 3 years now. People are starting to get tired of waiting.
Let me set this straight. They have been working on the rendering engine (the most important part) since 1.3, grum and two others have been redoing the entire client from the ground up for months and months. Now while that is being worked on we have two others, jeb and dinnerbone, who have been keeping the rest of the community happy with content and not to mention fixing damn near every bug in the game all while redoing other parts of the game as well like redstone and lightning.
If the api was created way back and then all of these parts were fixed after every mod would break and your precious api would have been useless. Now they are doing it the proper way, taking each part of the game and fixing it in preperation for the api. The new texture system, lighting, rendering, redstone, etc...
Get it?
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Don't play vanilla? You don't know **** about minecraft.
I couldn't care less if it's hard or if they are busy YOU. DON'T. ING. ANNOUNCE. AN. FEATURE. IF. YOU. ARE. NOT. RELEASING. IT. IN. THE. NEAR. FUDGING. FUTURE.
They are NOT Peter Molyneux they can't pull this and get away with it.
Actually they can. It's their game. Also they haven't said anything about the api after they came out and said it was way more work involved then they anticipated at first, so get off your high horse and actually listen to the devs before making accusations.
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Don't play vanilla? You don't know **** about minecraft.
You're right,it wasn't scheduled for 1.5. it was scheduled for long, long before that. For instance, this Mojang post: http://www.mojang.co...o-snapshot-w27/
This is all I can find about the Mod API in that post.
The most dramatic change is that we’ve kicked out single-player, and made it a shell on top of multi-player. There are two major benefits to this: first, it’s required for the modding api if we don’t want to have multiple implementations of every mod, and second, if we fix a bug in single-player, we know the bug is fixed in multi-player, too.
... And the most notable missing feature is the modding API. Throwing out single-player was the first step in order to make the API possible, and that’s done now.
It's hard for people who are not programmers, especially young people who are spoiled children who don't understand the first thing about running a company, to understand what is going on.
A lot of people do, however, like the majority of the posts on this topic are from people who understand the hiccups that can occur in software development.
The simple fact is that at bare minimum at least half of the game's entire code will have to re-written to allow a Mod API to be implemented. That's not "Half of the classes" or "Half of the functions", I mean that I'd guess roughly half of the characters in each and every line of code will have to re-written. That's the last FOUR YEARS worth of minecraft development that has to be re-written before the API can possibly be released in any form.
Well, then they should be finishing up the engine-related things. I don't seem them doing that though. I see them adding hoppers and tnt minecarts and screwing with redstone and bonemeal, and all but ignoring core engine issues. Not that I'm against adding new features, but they are never going to fix engine issues and bugs if all they want to do is play with the fancy new toys.
You people are INFURIATING!
In the background throughout the updates to 1.4 and the snapshots for 1.5 they've been recoding vast amounts of the game to be more modular and better accept Mod-added features. They had to re-write the logic that handles redstone so that when they DO create an API, mods can interact with Redstone and do it in a reliable and predictable way. THIS IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST STEPS TAKEN THUS FAR TOWARDS THE MOD API.
I can sit here and shout all day, but I will bet every dollar in my bank account that none of these kids will ever understand that Mojang has a small group of HUMAN BEINGS working on this game and they have MORE THAN ONE GOAL and YOUR OPINION OF WHAT IS MOST IMPORTANT DOES NOT DICTATE HOW THEY ATTEMPT TO PLEASE THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY.
Now read the link in my signature and try to stop shoveling complaints at Mojang. If the ModAPI is so important to you that the absence of one ruins the game, PLAY A DIFFERENT GAME UNTIL IT'S RELEASED, BECAUSE WHINING ABOUT HOW LONG IT IS TAKING WILL NOT ALLOW THEM TO CODE IT ANY FASTER THAN THEY ARE ALREADY CAPABLE OF. Learn how to provide quality constructive feedback instead of acting like entitled children who don't understand the value of a dollar or the hard work put in every day over at Mojang.
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This is all I can find about the Mod API in that post.
Um, I quoted what they said.
The simple fact is that at bare minimum at least half of the game's entire code will have to re-written to allow a Mod API to be implemented. That's not "Half of the classes" or "Half of the functions", I mean that I'd guess roughly half of the characters in each and every line of code will have to re-written. That's the last FOUR YEARS worth of minecraft development that has to be re-written before the API can possibly be released in any form.
So what you're saying is it was impossible for them to release the mod API when they said they would, Thus all the delays and putting it off for 2 years. They're not incompetent- they're just liars. Okaaaaay....
So what you're saying is it was impossible for them to release the mod API when they said they would, Thus all the delays and putting it off for 2 years. They're not incompetent- they're just liars. Okaaaaay....
Incompetent? Liars? Read this. I'm leaving this thread because people like you can't be reasoned with. There's no point.
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What would you call people who said, 18 months ago, that they were "finishing up" the code in question? Either they were telling the truth, and have been incompetent in actually releasing the API, OR they were lying back then.
What other explanation is there?
Read this. I'm leaving this thread because people like you can't be reasoned with. There's no point.
"This" is the topic: "Mojang consists of real, live people. Treat them the way you should treat friends, elders, AND strangers." Well, if any of those people lied to me for two years, I'd be complaining about them, too.
What would you call people who said, 18 months ago, that they were "finishing up" the code in question? Either they were telling the truth, and have been incompetent in actually releasing the API, OR they were lying back then.
What other explanation is there?
How about because it takes a while for 5 people to code an entire game.
18 months is pretty fast considering they had to re-factor all of someone elses game. You have no freaking idea how hard it is to navigate without proper comments everywhere, unless you are the one who wrote it. Lighting has been rewritten more times than any other part, and its still being worked on because its not good enough. Every update parts are covered. The entire rendering system has been rebuilt from the ground up with a better client.
Half of the team only has one job. To re-code the parts of minecraft necessary for the API. Grum and co started with the merge, then the moved onto the rendering which has actually taken this long to make believe it or not. Dinnerbone has even been working on things like the new texture system and terrain sliders (which are actually necessary you dolt) when he doesn't have a bug or feature to work on.
So if you don't understand then poo on you.
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Don't play vanilla? You don't know **** about minecraft.
"You have reached your quota of positive votes for the day."
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Yes they exaggerated how easy it will be to implement the Mod/Plugin API but there are more people playing Minecraft now than ever before. There are also more developers than before (it used to be just Notch, now he has been effectively replaced with 5 other programmers). These programmers are real people and real people make mistakes.
Fine. No problem. But they shouldn't promise things that they don't have time to code.
And it STILL doesn't explain how they were supposedly "finishing up" the code 18 months ago....
It doesn't matter. They weren't lying, they were wrong. If you can't comprehend how much work the API is taking, then that's your problem, not Mojang's. You can whine and complain and question all you want, but at the end of the day, it means nothing. Nothing, at all.
The API will be ready when it's ready. No sooner. No amount of ignorance, and complaining, will change that. Get that through your head.
It doesn't matter. They weren't lying, they were wrong.
... each and every time they said the API was going to be inthe next version.
Exactly how many time does some one have to be 'wrong' before you start thinking they are LYING? Because they reached that point for me about a year ago.
In the background throughout the updates to 1.4 and the snapshots for 1.5 they've been recoding vast amounts of the game to be more modular and better accept Mod-added features. They had to re-write the logic that handles redstone so that when they DO create an API, mods can interact with Redstone and do it in a reliable and predictable way. THIS IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST STEPS TAKEN THUS FAR TOWARDS THE MOD API.
Well, that's good. In that case, that's exactly the type of thing I'd want them working on.
I can sit here and shout all day, but I will bet every dollar in my bank account that none of these kids will ever understand that Mojang has a small group of HUMAN BEINGS working on this game and they have MORE THAN ONE GOAL and YOUR OPINION OF WHAT IS MOST IMPORTANT DOES NOT DICTATE HOW THEY ATTEMPT TO PLEASE THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY.
For the record, I am no kid. I am 36 years old, and have worked as a programmer (assembly for microcontrollers, not anything in the java world, though many standard concepts are true regardless of language). I understand enough to know that what they are trying to do is hard. I understand that it's a LOT of work. I even get that it turned out to be a lot more work than they were expecting... that happens.
But I also understand how Mojang tends to treat things that are a lot of work and not fun. They delay the crap out of them. There have been interviews with Notch and Jeb where they basically said that bug fixes aren't fun, and playing with new content is fun. Well duh. But this (by their own admission) causes them to procrastinate on stuff that is really important for the future of the game. That's really all I have a problem with.
The Mod API is just one example of the basic underlying issue I have with Mojang as a dev team. Because they are indie, and work for themselves, there's no one above them to hound them to do the things that "aren't fun" instead of the things that are. Yes, there have been a lot of bug fixes in the past several months. There have also been a lot of bugs that have been around for that long (or much longer) that are still there. "Oh yeah, we didn't fix the lighting bugs yet, we'll get to it sometime. In the meantime, have some exploding minecarts! They are super fun!"
Even then, like I said, I don't have a problem with some new content. They are trying to appease the kiddies that don't care about actual game stability or bug fixes, and just want the "cool new stuff." But the issue is when new content creates new bugs, when they really need to be fixing existing bugs (and re-writing code, as you said) to be able to get the Mod API out. Am I suggesting that the Mod API is the most important thing they can work on? No. But they did promise it, millions of people are waiting for it, and they have said they can't finish it until they fix other things first. So creating things that are moving them away from that (by creating new bugs that need to be squished), puts them in danger of never actually being able to release a Mod API. If they take a step back for every step forward, they aren't going to get anywhere.
Well, that's good. In that case, that's exactly the type of thing I'd want them working on.
For the record, I am no kid. I am 36 years old, and have worked as a programmer (assembly for microcontrollers, not anything in the java world, though many standard concepts are true regardless of language). I understand enough to know that what they are trying to do is hard. I understand that it's a LOT of work. I even get that it turned out to be a lot more work than they were expecting... that happens.
But I also understand how Mojang tends to treat things that are a lot of work and not fun. They delay the crap out of them. There have been interviews with Notch and Jeb where they basically said that bug fixes aren't fun, and playing with new content is fun. Well duh. But this (by their own admission) causes them to procrastinate on stuff that is really important for the future of the game. That's really all I have a problem with.
The Mod API is just one example of the basic underlying issue I have with Mojang as a dev team. Because they are indie, and work for themselves, there's no one above them to hound them to do the things that "aren't fun" instead of the things that are. Yes, there have been a lot of bug fixes in the past several months. There have also been a lot of bugs that have been around for that long (or much longer) that are still there. "Oh yeah, we didn't fix the lighting bugs yet, we'll get to it sometime. In the meantime, have some exploding minecarts! They are super fun!"
Even then, like I said, I don't have a problem with some new content. They are trying to appease the kiddies that don't care about actual game stability or bug fixes, and just want the "cool new stuff." But the issue is when new content creates new bugs, when they really need to be fixing existing bugs (and re-writing code, as you said) to be able to get the Mod API out. Am I suggesting that the Mod API is the most important thing they can work on? No. But they did promise it, millions of people are waiting for it, and they have said they can't finish it until they fix other things first. So creating things that are moving them away from that (by creating new bugs that need to be squished), puts them in danger of never actually being able to release a Mod API. If they take a step back for every step forward, they aren't going to get anywhere.
But that's not the case, only jeb and dinnerbone add content and then bugfix said content along with the rest of the game. That's less than half the team; the other half, Grum and a few others, have been toiling away getting many things behind the scenes done. Once they are done I expect there work will go to the API.
Also once minecraft is done being refactored updates will come faster which will be nice.
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Don't play vanilla? You don't know **** about minecraft.
... each and every time they said the API was going to be inthe next version.
Exactly how many time does some one have to be 'wrong' before you start thinking they are LYING? Because they reached that point for me about a year ago.
If you're an optimist, never. Lying requires intent. Besides Notch admitting he hadn't worked on it before the release came out, all I've seen is optimism from the team.
I want them to follow through on what they say they are going to do. If they had done so, we'd have had the API YEARS ago. We'd also have Red Dragons (tamable/ridable), fish swimming in the oceans, and a lot of other things.
This.
And why did Jeb pretty much stop work on Skylands any how? ive always wanted to know that.
Mod API has been promised for over 3 years now. People are starting to get tired of waiting.
If the api was created way back and then all of these parts were fixed after every mod would break and your precious api would have been useless. Now they are doing it the proper way, taking each part of the game and fixing it in preperation for the api. The new texture system, lighting, rendering, redstone, etc...
Get it?
Actually they can. It's their game. Also they haven't said anything about the api after they came out and said it was way more work involved then they anticipated at first, so get off your high horse and actually listen to the devs before making accusations.
This is all I can find about the Mod API in that post.
It's hard for people who are not programmers, especially young people who are spoiled children who don't understand the first thing about running a company, to understand what is going on.
A lot of people do, however, like the majority of the posts on this topic are from people who understand the hiccups that can occur in software development.
The simple fact is that at bare minimum at least half of the game's entire code will have to re-written to allow a Mod API to be implemented. That's not "Half of the classes" or "Half of the functions", I mean that I'd guess roughly half of the characters in each and every line of code will have to re-written. That's the last FOUR YEARS worth of minecraft development that has to be re-written before the API can possibly be released in any form.
You people are INFURIATING!
In the background throughout the updates to 1.4 and the snapshots for 1.5 they've been recoding vast amounts of the game to be more modular and better accept Mod-added features. They had to re-write the logic that handles redstone so that when they DO create an API, mods can interact with Redstone and do it in a reliable and predictable way. THIS IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST STEPS TAKEN THUS FAR TOWARDS THE MOD API.
I can sit here and shout all day, but I will bet every dollar in my bank account that none of these kids will ever understand that Mojang has a small group of HUMAN BEINGS working on this game and they have MORE THAN ONE GOAL and YOUR OPINION OF WHAT IS MOST IMPORTANT DOES NOT DICTATE HOW THEY ATTEMPT TO PLEASE THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY.
Now read the link in my signature and try to stop shoveling complaints at Mojang. If the ModAPI is so important to you that the absence of one ruins the game, PLAY A DIFFERENT GAME UNTIL IT'S RELEASED, BECAUSE WHINING ABOUT HOW LONG IT IS TAKING WILL NOT ALLOW THEM TO CODE IT ANY FASTER THAN THEY ARE ALREADY CAPABLE OF. Learn how to provide quality constructive feedback instead of acting like entitled children who don't understand the value of a dollar or the hard work put in every day over at Mojang.
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Um, I quoted what they said.
So what you're saying is it was impossible for them to release the mod API when they said they would, Thus all the delays and putting it off for 2 years. They're not incompetent- they're just liars. Okaaaaay....
Read this. I'm leaving this thread because people like you can't be reasoned with. There's no point.
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What would you call people who said, 18 months ago, that they were "finishing up" the code in question? Either they were telling the truth, and have been incompetent in actually releasing the API, OR they were lying back then.
What other explanation is there?
I'm leaving this thread because people like you can't be reasoned with. There's no point. Read this.
"This" is the topic: "Mojang consists of real, live people. Treat them the way you should treat friends, elders, AND strangers." Well, if any of those people lied to me for two years, I'd be complaining about them, too.
How about because it takes a while for 5 people to code an entire game.
18 months is pretty fast considering they had to re-factor all of someone elses game. You have no freaking idea how hard it is to navigate without proper comments everywhere, unless you are the one who wrote it. Lighting has been rewritten more times than any other part, and its still being worked on because its not good enough. Every update parts are covered. The entire rendering system has been rebuilt from the ground up with a better client.
Half of the team only has one job. To re-code the parts of minecraft necessary for the API. Grum and co started with the merge, then the moved onto the rendering which has actually taken this long to make believe it or not. Dinnerbone has even been working on things like the new texture system and terrain sliders (which are actually necessary you dolt) when he doesn't have a bug or feature to work on.
So if you don't understand then poo on you.
Fine. No problem. But they shouldn't promise things that they don't have time to code.
And it STILL doesn't explain how they were supposedly "finishing up" the code 18 months ago....
--Ocram
It doesn't matter. They weren't lying, they were wrong. If you can't comprehend how much work the API is taking, then that's your problem, not Mojang's. You can whine and complain and question all you want, but at the end of the day, it means nothing. Nothing, at all.
The API will be ready when it's ready. No sooner. No amount of ignorance, and complaining, will change that. Get that through your head.
...but that's just like, my opinion, man.
... each and every time they said the API was going to be inthe next version.
Exactly how many time does some one have to be 'wrong' before you start thinking they are LYING? Because they reached that point for me about a year ago.
Well, that's good. In that case, that's exactly the type of thing I'd want them working on.
For the record, I am no kid. I am 36 years old, and have worked as a programmer (assembly for microcontrollers, not anything in the java world, though many standard concepts are true regardless of language). I understand enough to know that what they are trying to do is hard. I understand that it's a LOT of work. I even get that it turned out to be a lot more work than they were expecting... that happens.
But I also understand how Mojang tends to treat things that are a lot of work and not fun. They delay the crap out of them. There have been interviews with Notch and Jeb where they basically said that bug fixes aren't fun, and playing with new content is fun. Well duh. But this (by their own admission) causes them to procrastinate on stuff that is really important for the future of the game. That's really all I have a problem with.
The Mod API is just one example of the basic underlying issue I have with Mojang as a dev team. Because they are indie, and work for themselves, there's no one above them to hound them to do the things that "aren't fun" instead of the things that are. Yes, there have been a lot of bug fixes in the past several months. There have also been a lot of bugs that have been around for that long (or much longer) that are still there. "Oh yeah, we didn't fix the lighting bugs yet, we'll get to it sometime. In the meantime, have some exploding minecarts! They are super fun!"
Even then, like I said, I don't have a problem with some new content. They are trying to appease the kiddies that don't care about actual game stability or bug fixes, and just want the "cool new stuff." But the issue is when new content creates new bugs, when they really need to be fixing existing bugs (and re-writing code, as you said) to be able to get the Mod API out. Am I suggesting that the Mod API is the most important thing they can work on? No. But they did promise it, millions of people are waiting for it, and they have said they can't finish it until they fix other things first. So creating things that are moving them away from that (by creating new bugs that need to be squished), puts them in danger of never actually being able to release a Mod API. If they take a step back for every step forward, they aren't going to get anywhere.
But that's not the case, only jeb and dinnerbone add content and then bugfix said content along with the rest of the game. That's less than half the team; the other half, Grum and a few others, have been toiling away getting many things behind the scenes done. Once they are done I expect there work will go to the API.
Also once minecraft is done being refactored updates will come faster which will be nice.
If you're an optimist, never. Lying requires intent. Besides Notch admitting he hadn't worked on it before the release came out, all I've seen is optimism from the team.