i think it should continue to cost the same to build but have 50 uses total on anything and cost less levels maybe 10-30 for combining enchants (depending on tool type and enchant level) 5-15 for repairing something (again based on tool type and enchant level) and 1 for renaming
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im too lazy to tink of something better to put here so i will put this. cheesefingerchickenpizzalemon wow why are you still reading this is is not amazing, not special, not all that original or even cool?
Make something easy to obtain/maintain, everyone complains it's too easy.
Make something difficult to obtain/maintain, everyone complains it's too hard.
An anvil is a luxury item that makes very powerful things. I am completely fine with it using a lot of iron (I get it faster than I can use it up anyway), I am fine with it costing a significant amount of exp (exp is so easy to get now, even without a farm), and I'm fine with it breaking (because a one-time cost of 55 ingots is too cheap to matter to a late-game player). Besides, it's not like you're going to be using your anvil 500 times a day - maintaining your best stuff really doesn't require much use.
If you hate the cost of renaming stuff, don't rename stuff. It's a gimmick and you don't need it. If people have exp to burn, they can burn it this way instead of enchanting things they don't need.
If you think the anvil should be easy to get and last forever, consider that there are many people that play minecraft, and some of them need a little more of a challenge. It is a motivator to get to that point in the game when you can easily pay the costs for it, not the thing you build right after you make a bed in your first-night cave house.
Thats true and I get that, but I feel like I should still be able to save up 300 levels to repair one item if I really wanted it that bad. I mean as long as the price in level increases in a fair amount (maybe even exponentially after a certain point to dissuade people) every time why isn't that balanced? Why can't people why save up huge amounts of xp to get godly equipment. I thought that was the whole idea of it being expensive.
I understand that people will just grind golems to get iron and endermen for xp and basically be cheating to get the best of the best but thats not the anvils fault. Those other problems should be fixed before limiting the anvil. The current level cap is just silly and should be raised.
Because it would be "balanced" against farms. And balancing against an easy infinite means inflating values, just for the purpose of inconveniencing the people that use it. In minecraft, people that EXP farm and the farms themselves should not be a consideration for balancing anything. Thus when a hard cap is put on anything, it's saying "after this point, further efforts affect quantity and nothing else". Allowing infinite repair essentially validates the people who use grinders by allowing them to keep the best gear in the game for disproportionally little effort compared to normal players. Spawning should be overhauled to break most farms, I agree, nothing of value really comes out of the existence of farms. But to ignore the broader reasons on why it's not infinite is a little silly.
The discussion of whether or not the cap should be raised is an interesting argument, as it's a slippery slope; if it's upped so that you can combine two good high end enchantments, what reason is there to deny the argument that you should be able to repair it a couple of times in addition?
Minecraft isn't logical, I'm talking more in terms of game balance.
Enchanting Tables are similarly expensive to create and cost experience to use, but don't degrade. Why does the Anvil, then?
Minecraft isn't completely logical. But it doesn't go that far. Tools degrade because we are banging them against stone, dirt or mobs. Anvils degrade because using an anvil requires a hammer that pounds the metal back into shape. Like I said, flipping through a book doesn't make anything degrade. Enchantment tables also use obsidian, which is the hardest obtainable item in minecraft. Make sense?
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XP Guide Regardless of what change you do, no matter how small, someone will complain. - Jens Bergensten If you want me to see your reply, make sure to quote my post in your reply.
Minecraft isn't completely logical. But it doesn't go that far. Tools degrade because we are banging them against stone, dirt or mobs. Anvils degrade because using an anvil requires a hammer that pounds the metal back into shape. Like I said, flipping through a book doesn't make anything degrade. Enchantment tables also use obsidian, which is the hardest obtainable item in minecraft. Make sense?
No, because you're still trying to justify bad game mechanic balancing using real logic, which is silly.
It could make perfect sense that Anvils degrade because we're hitting them with our tools, that still doesn't make it a good idea. If we're going to go that route, I could ask why the Anvils don't require Forges to function, because logically we're melting down the material that the tools are made out and reforging them into a single tool.
Farms exist because after two years you get sick of digging holes.
Farms are less effective in multi-player
The best farms are easily griefed (Iron golem, endermen) in multi-player
The only cheating is x-ray/hacks. If you are unable to build such structures or learn mechanics of the game. That's you problem. Mojang knows about them and does not call them cheating.
They let us use the skill of building, in a "Building" game. This was a building game, long before it turned into the Roleplaying game it is now.
Without mob towers there is also still automatic wheat farms, cobble stone generators, villager trading stations, plain sitting at a blaze spawner, running around the end with a ceiling over your head so endermen cannot damage you, and on and on, and on.
The only cheating is x-ray/hacks. If you are unable to build such structures or learn mechanics of the game. That's you problem. Mojang knows about them and does not call them cheating.
Honestly I consider farms cheating because they're not intended by Mojang, and they're an abuse of the game's mechanics. The only reason it hasn't been changed is because people would complain.
farms make this game interesting for me.
being able to build things that produce allot of resources too keep me going is awesome.
if all those things get fixed, the game would be boring cause you can't do much.(for me)
and the anvil is fine. it's a pretty powerfull tool since you can combine enchants.
which is better then enchanting 15 swords to get the best sword you can have.
I think it should remain at the current cost. By the time you have that much iron, you should have a place to grind levels anyway. So I think that it work's out good. Because it is kind of pointless to make one if you don't have enchants to combine or the levels to do anything with them.
Mojang knows about mob towers. They know about endermen exp farms. If it was cheating they would remove them. Anyone can make a tower, the same as anyone can can make a cobblestone generator.
Opinion on its cheating does not matter. Because mojang supports them by not after 2-3 years preventing them from working. And yes, they have removed wildly popular things before in the past like water elevators and adding and keeping things people hate like hunger and voidfog.
They were recently going to nerf mob spawners (The original mob tower that mojang themselves created and have since added more), but ended up undoing it.
If you are unable to build such structures or learn mechanics of the game.
No. Stop, bad internet fool. It's not an issue of ability. It never has been, and it never will be. Conflating the two makes you a troll or a moron. I don't build farms because doing so would ruin what I play minecraft for, which isn't mindlessly sitting on my ass waiting for the game to play itself.
I don't demand they be removed because Mojang also has the perspective to let players that want to ruin their play and not do anything themselves without making it mandatory for eveyone else.
Keep your condensation and terrible arguments out of the thread.
So, this is my particular situation. I have built a decent sized city and would like players to be able to access and use anvils, as well as use them as functional decoration. If they have durability and have to be replaced often, there is no real incentive to leave them out for general use (unlike the enchanting table). So likely if the durability isn't revisited then I'll be looking for an update to our existing mods so that anvils are locked by the player that places the block (and thus unusable to everyone else).
IMHO, WAYYY too expensive. I renamed a stone sword and it took a whole visible point of damage. Mojang has two choices;
ONE: Change the recipe to be less expensive. Maybe six iron ingots and one iron block, as an inversion of the current one.
TWO: At least double the durability. At most, triple it.
The anvil is probably my favorite new block(I'm making a 1.4 adventure map, and I have a blacksmith as the first NPC you meet), but its unbalanced in a bad way(too expensive and weak of durability).
In my opinion everything on the anvil is nice and balanced, iron like everyone says is VERY easy to obtain, it cost 55 iron to make and is an effective method of using up all the iron that begins to stockpile over time.
Also have you tried using the anvil in a survival world? It takes a while to get that much xp unless you have an xp farm, therefore limiting the amount of items you can rename items or repair items. This is the one thing I hate about certain items however, if it's somewhat costly, and it's added to the game, people don't even attempt to use it, they look at the price, go, "OMG TOO MUCH COST, MAKE CHEAPER."
Try it in survival, see how it really is, after doing this complain about how it's so costly.
Can we put aside the ancient "old school players vs new school players" "Building vs RPG" and "Efficiency = fun vs Exploration = fun" arguments, and focus on the damn anvil? Just for a minute?
Speaking purely from the viewpoint of vanilla game balance, the anvil is a powerful tool to have access to, and it should be expensive, but even considering that, the net expense is still too great. Honestly, the problem isn't the recipe itself, but the huge exp, and the incredibly low durability. The main problem that the recipe causes stems from the low durability. 55 iron isn't much, but 55 iron over and over and over is going to add up quickly. Let's consider the durability of other iron stuff. Iron tools have 251 uses. Iron Armor averages 207 durability. The Anvil gets.... maybe 10? In terms of gameplay balance, the iron you use to make the anvil could easily get a lot more use in the form of tools or armor. If the giant hunk of metal is going to be so fragile, it shouldn't require so much metal. If it's going to use that much metal, it should be as durable. I mean hell, the thing is immune to explosions...
Now let's consider the exp cost. Renaming any tool, regardless of it's material cost, is 15 levels. That's 15 levels for a wood sword, and 15 for a diamond sword. If the item is enchantmented, that price goes up considerably, this time depending on the number of enchantments. Regular items can be renamed at the cost of 5 levels. Now I ask... why? You can rename anything in your head for free. All renaming adds is aesthetic and smiles, so that I can keep track of my sword "Spiffy McCutsyou" even if my inventory gets scrambled. In other words, the only practical use is, basically, just to help ease sorting headaches. Also note that, if you rename an item that can stack, it will no longer be able to stack with other items like itself. I've read a couple people try to justify that renaming should be expensive because it adds nothing, but that's sort of backwards. Why should something that adds nothing cost anything? Why would you pay something for nothing? If renaming HAS to have a cost, it shouldn't be more than a single level, and that single level should only apply if renaming is ALL you're doing. If you're repairing or merging something, and you want to rename it too, you're already paying out the ass, why should you have to tack on an extra 15 levels just to make sure you know your Super Awesome Sword is named Jim?
The Exp cost for the actual repairing and merging of enchantments isn't unreasonable at all, though. The level 39 cap is... odd, and made worse by the exorbitant cost of renaming, but it's apparent function of putting a limit on just what the anvil can achieve is understandable. The main problems I see are the unreasonably low durability and the fact that renaming costs anything at all.
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<Whiteblade_> You're a twisted twisted soul Amehtta. <Whiteblade_> Did you know that?
<+Xekaj> ^
Here is a suggestion (likely not a good one) for tweaking anvil design as it is right now.
1) Anvils work differently on Unenchanted vs Enchanted gear.
2) On Unenchanted gear, it uses no anvil durability and costs minimal EXP (1-5 levels depending on quality) to repair items and returns the item combine back at a much higher durability rating then previously. Secondary suggestion, instead of a second tool merge use a base material of the matching type. I've seen mods with similar effects which I think are well worth emulating to some degree.
~ This would give a decent benefit for the cost involved in the anvil to reward early to mid-game players, while maintaining a need to gather and collect resources of all types to keep tools conditioned.
3). Give Anvils two designations of Shiny and Dull. Shiny represents the full 'durability'.
4) Functionality for enchanted items remain the same, with one difference. A dull anvil doesn't break, but loses the ability to work with enchanted items.
5) And/or suggestion. A Dull anvil can then be broken down for a reduced amount of iron (30 bars >= ). A dull anvil could be polished, using either a new craftable or potion made from renewable/common materials. I would suggest the polishing agent to be somewhat labor/time intensive but readily available if that time is taken (like the cake is).
As I can see it, the above allows the anvil to remain functional for a majority of players, but continues to balance on the high-end. It becomes an accomplishment that isn't lost by using it for it's true purpose and probably would provide a sense of progression for players transitioning from the Iron/Diamond stage to the Enchanted stage.
Might as well just stand there with a looting sword.
Make something easy to obtain/maintain, everyone complains it's too easy.
Make something difficult to obtain/maintain, everyone complains it's too hard.
An anvil is a luxury item that makes very powerful things. I am completely fine with it using a lot of iron (I get it faster than I can use it up anyway), I am fine with it costing a significant amount of exp (exp is so easy to get now, even without a farm), and I'm fine with it breaking (because a one-time cost of 55 ingots is too cheap to matter to a late-game player). Besides, it's not like you're going to be using your anvil 500 times a day - maintaining your best stuff really doesn't require much use.
If you hate the cost of renaming stuff, don't rename stuff. It's a gimmick and you don't need it. If people have exp to burn, they can burn it this way instead of enchanting things they don't need.
If you think the anvil should be easy to get and last forever, consider that there are many people that play minecraft, and some of them need a little more of a challenge. It is a motivator to get to that point in the game when you can easily pay the costs for it, not the thing you build right after you make a bed in your first-night cave house.
Because it would be "balanced" against farms. And balancing against an easy infinite means inflating values, just for the purpose of inconveniencing the people that use it. In minecraft, people that EXP farm and the farms themselves should not be a consideration for balancing anything. Thus when a hard cap is put on anything, it's saying "after this point, further efforts affect quantity and nothing else". Allowing infinite repair essentially validates the people who use grinders by allowing them to keep the best gear in the game for disproportionally little effort compared to normal players. Spawning should be overhauled to break most farms, I agree, nothing of value really comes out of the existence of farms. But to ignore the broader reasons on why it's not infinite is a little silly.
The discussion of whether or not the cap should be raised is an interesting argument, as it's a slippery slope; if it's upped so that you can combine two good high end enchantments, what reason is there to deny the argument that you should be able to repair it a couple of times in addition?
Minecraft isn't completely logical. But it doesn't go that far. Tools degrade because we are banging them against stone, dirt or mobs. Anvils degrade because using an anvil requires a hammer that pounds the metal back into shape. Like I said, flipping through a book doesn't make anything degrade. Enchantment tables also use obsidian, which is the hardest obtainable item in minecraft. Make sense?
Regardless of what change you do, no matter how small, someone will complain. - Jens Bergensten
If you want me to see your reply, make sure to quote my post in your reply.
It could make perfect sense that Anvils degrade because we're hitting them with our tools, that still doesn't make it a good idea. If we're going to go that route, I could ask why the Anvils don't require Forges to function, because logically we're melting down the material that the tools are made out and reforging them into a single tool.
Farms are less effective in multi-player
The best farms are easily griefed (Iron golem, endermen) in multi-player
The only cheating is x-ray/hacks. If you are unable to build such structures or learn mechanics of the game. That's you problem. Mojang knows about them and does not call them cheating.
They let us use the skill of building, in a "Building" game. This was a building game, long before it turned into the Roleplaying game it is now.
Without mob towers there is also still automatic wheat farms, cobble stone generators, villager trading stations, plain sitting at a blaze spawner, running around the end with a ceiling over your head so endermen cannot damage you, and on and on, and on.
Renaming things shouldn't even be an option.. >
Honestly I consider farms cheating because they're not intended by Mojang, and they're an abuse of the game's mechanics. The only reason it hasn't been changed is because people would complain.
How is Minecraft now an RPG?
being able to build things that produce allot of resources too keep me going is awesome.
if all those things get fixed, the game would be boring cause you can't do much.(for me)
and the anvil is fine. it's a pretty powerfull tool since you can combine enchants.
which is better then enchanting 15 swords to get the best sword you can have.
Opinion on its cheating does not matter. Because mojang supports them by not after 2-3 years preventing them from working. And yes, they have removed wildly popular things before in the past like water elevators and adding and keeping things people hate like hunger and voidfog.
They were recently going to nerf mob spawners (The original mob tower that mojang themselves created and have since added more), but ended up undoing it.
I don't demand they be removed because Mojang also has the perspective to let players that want to ruin their play and not do anything themselves without making it mandatory for eveyone else.
Keep your condensation and terrible arguments out of the thread.
ONE: Change the recipe to be less expensive. Maybe six iron ingots and one iron block, as an inversion of the current one.
TWO: At least double the durability. At most, triple it.
The anvil is probably my favorite new block(I'm making a 1.4 adventure map, and I have a blacksmith as the first NPC you meet), but its unbalanced in a bad way(too expensive and weak of durability).
You should too! Find it here; http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1648718-slime-blocksnew-method-of-trapping-mobs/
Also have you tried using the anvil in a survival world? It takes a while to get that much xp unless you have an xp farm, therefore limiting the amount of items you can rename items or repair items. This is the one thing I hate about certain items however, if it's somewhat costly, and it's added to the game, people don't even attempt to use it, they look at the price, go, "OMG TOO MUCH COST, MAKE CHEAPER."
Try it in survival, see how it really is, after doing this complain about how it's so costly.
Speaking purely from the viewpoint of vanilla game balance, the anvil is a powerful tool to have access to, and it should be expensive, but even considering that, the net expense is still too great. Honestly, the problem isn't the recipe itself, but the huge exp, and the incredibly low durability. The main problem that the recipe causes stems from the low durability. 55 iron isn't much, but 55 iron over and over and over is going to add up quickly. Let's consider the durability of other iron stuff. Iron tools have 251 uses. Iron Armor averages 207 durability. The Anvil gets.... maybe 10? In terms of gameplay balance, the iron you use to make the anvil could easily get a lot more use in the form of tools or armor. If the giant hunk of metal is going to be so fragile, it shouldn't require so much metal. If it's going to use that much metal, it should be as durable. I mean hell, the thing is immune to explosions...
Now let's consider the exp cost. Renaming any tool, regardless of it's material cost, is 15 levels. That's 15 levels for a wood sword, and 15 for a diamond sword. If the item is enchantmented, that price goes up considerably, this time depending on the number of enchantments. Regular items can be renamed at the cost of 5 levels. Now I ask... why? You can rename anything in your head for free. All renaming adds is aesthetic and smiles, so that I can keep track of my sword "Spiffy McCutsyou" even if my inventory gets scrambled. In other words, the only practical use is, basically, just to help ease sorting headaches. Also note that, if you rename an item that can stack, it will no longer be able to stack with other items like itself. I've read a couple people try to justify that renaming should be expensive because it adds nothing, but that's sort of backwards. Why should something that adds nothing cost anything? Why would you pay something for nothing? If renaming HAS to have a cost, it shouldn't be more than a single level, and that single level should only apply if renaming is ALL you're doing. If you're repairing or merging something, and you want to rename it too, you're already paying out the ass, why should you have to tack on an extra 15 levels just to make sure you know your Super Awesome Sword is named Jim?
The Exp cost for the actual repairing and merging of enchantments isn't unreasonable at all, though. The level 39 cap is... odd, and made worse by the exorbitant cost of renaming, but it's apparent function of putting a limit on just what the anvil can achieve is understandable. The main problems I see are the unreasonably low durability and the fact that renaming costs anything at all.
1) Anvils work differently on Unenchanted vs Enchanted gear.
2) On Unenchanted gear, it uses no anvil durability and costs minimal EXP (1-5 levels depending on quality) to repair items and returns the item combine back at a much higher durability rating then previously. Secondary suggestion, instead of a second tool merge use a base material of the matching type. I've seen mods with similar effects which I think are well worth emulating to some degree.
~ This would give a decent benefit for the cost involved in the anvil to reward early to mid-game players, while maintaining a need to gather and collect resources of all types to keep tools conditioned.
3). Give Anvils two designations of Shiny and Dull. Shiny represents the full 'durability'.
4) Functionality for enchanted items remain the same, with one difference. A dull anvil doesn't break, but loses the ability to work with enchanted items.
5) And/or suggestion. A Dull anvil can then be broken down for a reduced amount of iron (30 bars >= ). A dull anvil could be polished, using either a new craftable or potion made from renewable/common materials. I would suggest the polishing agent to be somewhat labor/time intensive but readily available if that time is taken (like the cake is).
As I can see it, the above allows the anvil to remain functional for a majority of players, but continues to balance on the high-end. It becomes an accomplishment that isn't lost by using it for it's true purpose and probably would provide a sense of progression for players transitioning from the Iron/Diamond stage to the Enchanted stage.