Let's get this straight... If you are a reasonable player who plays on normal or hard, you should be able to mine and smelt somewhere around 100 iron ingots in the time it takes to construct a golem farm. I don't know in what universe you would time to mine an infinite amount of iron (not literally) but 100 is certainly far from infinity...
so your saying that you will have an infinite amount of iron as soon as your mob trap is finished?
lol hardly. you wouldn't even have 100 iron ingots that you could have gotten from mining as you claim.
You know, it's not just about hostile mob farms and iron golem farms, it's about the way people obtain items in Minecraft.
Would you believe someone complained about me building a giant building for fast sheep farming for wool collecting just because I'm getting wool faster than he is? Yeah.
That building took me god-knows-how-long time to build. In the same amount of time, I could have just make a fenced off area with sheep inside it to collect more wool than spending all the time messing around with redstone, pistons and water movements.
So, what would be the problem most people see in mob farms? "it is an exploit". It is an exploit till the developer says that "It is part of the game", then it isn't. Do you guys remember when there was the piston glitch where you can make infinite items? That was unintended and people are 'exploiting' it. For mobs, however, they were intended to move around like that, intended to drop what they are dropping and for us players to collect it. We are just making a huge building just to do one thing: Making it easier for us to collect those items. In the time one person takes to make a hostile mob farm, he/she could have just gone outside, kill some mobs and come back with probably more items. Iron golems are intended to drop iron when they die (obviously) and it is because the way they spawn and the way they move allow us to farm them. Is it an exploit? No. So if jeb and jon decides to nerf it, we don't really care all that much; we can just readjust the farm. Same with hostile mobs; when notch and jeb decided to change the way hostile mobs move and spawns, we just change our farms. Simple as that. It takes work to make and change a farm, so it is a totally valid way of obtaining items.
How long would that take? They've got a lot of health.
If the rate at which you can kill golems (and the number of golems you can be killing at once) is dropped then iron farms become less ruinous to game balance.
50 seconds of suffocation to kill. Its a quite a bit more costly then the short lava grinders but with the current spawning parameters you can build a grinder that can easily generate large number of golems to suffocate, even while one group is suffocating. And with splash potions you have a nice quick way to kill the damaged group without having to hit them one at a time although if you do stick to using your hands then the amount of golems in the grinder will get larger and larger since it keeps taking longer to smack them all down.
50 seconds of suffocation to kill. Its a quite a bit more costly then the short lava grinders but with the current spawning parameters you can build a grinder that can easily generate large number of golems to suffocate, even while one group is suffocating. And with splash potions you have a nice quick way to kill the damaged group without having to hit them one at a time although if you do stick to using your hands then the amount of golems in the grinder will get larger and larger since it keeps taking longer to smack them all down.
this is why their spawn rate needs to be nerfed and making the drops player-kill only would be completely pointless.
Please refrain from going off topic , arguing and general trolling. Any futher spam in this thread will cause it to be closed and warnings givin to those involved.
You know, it's not just about hostile mob farms and iron golem farms, it's about the way people obtain items in Minecraft.
Would you believe someone complained about me building a giant building for fast sheep farming for wool collecting just because I'm getting wool faster than he is? Yeah.
That building took me god-knows-how-long time to build. In the same amount of time, I could have just make a fenced off area with sheep inside it to collect more wool than spending all the time messing around with redstone, pistons and water movements.
Lol totally agree with you, I got several farms up, from mobs to crops to XP farms. Both the admins on the server I played on are indirectly complaining about my "obsession" with farms. My mob tower alone took me nearly a week to complete, with all the resource collecting and stuff. Basically, I'm just playing around and utilize what the game can do, one of them is automating stuff which is probably my favorite.
To keep it simple, they're probably not happy about those farms because they have economy plug in installed on the server and I've basically monopolized most of the resources, but yea. :tongue.gif:
Lol totally agree with you, I got several farms up, from mobs to crops to XP farms. Both the admins on the server I played on are indirectly complaining about my "obsession" with farms. My mob tower alone took me nearly a week to complete, with all the resource collecting and stuff. Basically, I'm just playing around and utilize what the game can do, one of them is automating stuff which is probably my favorite.
To keep it simple, they're probably not happy about those farms because they have economy plug in installed on the server and I've basically monopolized most of the resources, but yea. :tongue.gif:
Well, you did work hard to make them. That's like a company investing in machines and things. You put effort into it so you deserve it.
I'm saying that things become significantly more complicated when you have to locate, and herd enough NPCs somewhere that you can hollow out below to make such a grinder. Or building a platform for villagers to climb while hoping that the golem spawns somewhere accessible for building a kill area below. In creative you can just use spawning eggs or use a flat world to locate some villagers. In survival you often have to search long and hard to find some, and in this case, it would have to be at some point AFTER the player was established enough to have a supply of tools, equipment, and food to be able to make that trip and live long enough away from their base.
What you need to make the trap:
A Village
3 Iron minimum (6 for two buckets)
2 Water source blocks made into an infinite water source
1 Lava source block
Dirt/Other block (Cobblestone is most readily available. Cobble generator anyone? Infinite blocks AND tools until your Iron farm is done)
Wood (Signs for water elevators, Doors for final trap)
Overall, finding the village is the hardest part of setting up this infinite Iron farm.
So really, there is no need to be well established. Just go looking for some surface lava, a lake, a few saplings, and maybe a bit of spelunking to get the 3 (6) Iron needed.
Ridiculous what you can achieve using Stone Tools, really...
Furthermore, as this WHOLE thing is :
a). An unintended side effect of a new mob which was needed to protect villages.
:cool.gif:. Something which is in a pre-update and is still being adjusted.
c). Something that someone has to intentionally go out of their way to exploit.
Your whole gripe is a bit misplaced atleast as far as the farming side of things goes. People can still CHOOSE to mine their stuff, and most HAVE to mine their stuff, but there are just other options now for those who are more interested in the adventuring and exploring aspect.
I'm just gonna say that anyone who chooses to make one of these farms never has to go looking for Iron ever again, what with the constant Iron drops. Great for automation, but I personally believe that having such a ridiculous drop rate (even with the upcoming nerf to spawn rate) still makes this farm too good.
I'm not against being able to farm Iron. I'm against waiting five minutes for a full stack of Iron Ingots.
So, to make everyone happy, all we have to do is to nerf the iron golem spawn rate? But then again, that would leave the villagers vulnerable for a period of time at night if the golem dies. Maybe we should nerf their drops instead?
So, to make everyone happy, all we have to do is to nerf the iron golem spawn rate? But then again, that would leave the villagers vulnerable for a period of time at night if the golem dies. Maybe we should nerf their drops instead?
Instead of straight nerfing the spawn rate, what about altering the spawn parameters? If iron golems spawned around the perimeter of the village, instead of "near the villagers", they wouldn't land in the grinder all the time. Seriously, I've found iron golems trapped in the village houses.
K, not buying it. Where are you getting all of this iron? Are you actually full clearing chunks? All 285 that you'd need just to get the amount that you have "left over"? I've actually done a good bit of clearing at bedrock level, and before enchants it was barely sustainable using iron and diamond picks- I had to resort to stone occasionally. Even with enchants you can run out of diamond.
What percentage of your time do you actually spend building compared to mining? Or am I supposed to believe that you just found that much iron sitting around on the surface?
If your goal is getting the most ore you can, then you should stop trying to clear out entire chunks- that is highly inefficient. Or use stone picks to dig out the stone and save your iron/diamond for the ore blocks.
There are massive debates on the "best" way to go about obtaining ores, so I'm just offering this as one solution out of many:
Stop mining at bedrock level, and stop branch mining. Instead, mine a straight tunnel 2 blocks high at y=10 or 11. Carry a water bucket to deal with lava, and when you find caves or mineshafts be sure to explore them. You will usually average a bare minimum of 6 diamond for every non-enchanted diamond pick you consume, and in many cases a lot more.
I personally enchant my diamond picks at level 5 or lower, and usually get Unbreaking I about once every 4 or 5 tries. When a pick is almost used up, with nothing showing in the bar, I stuff it in a chest. If I get an enchant other than Unbreaking, I use the dead pick to remove it (by repairing) and then enchant it again. So I usually get an Unbreaking every 2 or 3 picks that I go through. Even Unbreaking I will extend the life of a diamond pick by a noticeable amount, and using one I tend to average a minimum of around 12 diamonds per pick.
The world is large enough that you shouldn't need to worry about completely clearing chunks out, even on heavily used multiplayer servers. And on multiplayer, while you're trying to dig out that last bit of iron, some jerk with an Xray Mod is busy grabbing all the diamond nearby... so you're better off heading out into fresh areas any how.
In any event, I do think the golems need some nerfing. But if you're having trouble coming up with enough iron than you're doing something wrong.
What you need to make the trap:
A Village
3 Iron minimum (6 for two buckets)
2 Water source blocks made into an infinite water source
1 Lava source block
Dirt/Other block (Cobblestone is most readily available. Cobble generator anyone? Infinite blocks AND tools until your Iron farm is done)
Wood (Signs for water elevators, Doors for final trap)
Overall, finding the village is the hardest part of setting up this infinite Iron farm.
So really, there is no need to be well established. Just go looking for some surface lava, a lake, a few saplings, and maybe a bit of spelunking to get the 3 (6) Iron needed.
Ridiculous what you can achieve using Stone Tools, really...
Someone did a test and got one working in 80 minutes on a fresh world where they knew where a village was... But, this was 80 minutes of decided effort towards the construction of such a farm. You're kinda missing the whole point... What harm does a mob farm actually do in a game?
In SMP, it can be removed easily by any admin who actually cares about their server. It can also be dismantled, or claimed, by anyone who happens to find it (ever filled someone's bedroom with lava while they were offline?). So balance issues on that end are quickly resolved. There are already server fixes for this very issue. Play on better servers.
In SSP, there are easier ways of cheating, and ultimately limited things you can do with a chest of iron, nevermind a virtually endless supply. What little you could do with such a supply themselves don't take a ridiculous amount of time and isn't always something that a person can care to do. It is also their own game, so what they decide to do is their business and shouldn't affect you one way or another. Since this is something that someone has to consciously decide to do through deliberate effort, it shouldn't impact normal play AT ALL. Case in point... Some of the mods which allow people to CRAFT diamond from dirt. They don't impact you unless you use them, and those who do use them remove it or stop using it soon after because half the point of playing is now gone.
Yes, it is troubling when someone pisses themselves instead of going to the bathroom, but like the situation here... They are the ones who have to deal with the actual consequences of their actions.
...but with the current spawning parameters you can build a grinder that can easily generate large number of golems to suffocate, even while one group is suffocating.
I already brought this up in an an earlier post and made reference to it (in parentheses) in the one you quoted. Make it so that no more golems will spawn when there are already around 3 nearby.
I already brought this up in an an earlier post and made reference to it (in parentheses) in the one you quoted. Make it so that no more golems will spawn when there are already around 3 nearby.
Sorry, didn't see that post. Maybe I'm just going blind but what page of this thread is it in or is it in another thread? Still, unless this area limiting golem spawns is quite a bit larger then the current one, the trap would still mass up lots of golems because it involves transporting them fairly far to a holding cell well out of the connected villagers' range so more continue to spawn in, and that cell is isn't even the suffocation chamber. Like I said its quite a bit more costly then the current lava traps, but it does manage to keep comparable drop rates.
If your goal is getting the most ore you can, then you should stop trying to clear out entire chunks- that is highly inefficient. Or use stone picks to dig out the stone and save your iron/diamond for the ore blocks.
I'm not clearing out chunks near bedrock for ore, I'm clearing them out because I build there. But, as a side effect, I do wind up with the ore. All of my actual "mining" is done by exploring abandoned mineshafts.
so your saying that you will have an infinite amount of iron as soon as your mob trap is finished?
lol hardly. you wouldn't even have 100 iron ingots that you could have gotten from mining as you claim.
Oh my god no. I was quoting your original post where you said you could get infinite iron in the time it takes you to make a golem grinder.
I was saying the most you could possibly mine and smelt in that time is 100. Please go back and read your first post >:
Oh my god no. I was quoting your original post where you said you could get infinite iron in the time it takes you to make a golem grinder.
I was saying the most you could possibly mine and smelt in that time is 100. Please go back and read your first post >:
*Sigh* You are not quoting my OP - I never said that you can gather infinite of anything in my OP
What you are saying makes no sense because:
You just pulled that number "100" out of your behind
It's impossible to have infinite of anything - that's just a crazy thing to say
Nowhere do I say you can gather infinite anything in my OP
YOU should go back and read the first post! Thank You.
, or at least read the OP before you say you're "quoting it" *facepalm
My mistake. You said "lifetime supply of iron" and not "an infinite supply of iron." Either way youre wrong. And yes I did pull 100 out of my ass, but it was to prove that you cannot obtain a lifetime supply of iron in that small amount of time
My mistake. You said "lifetime supply of iron" and not "an infinite supply of iron." Either way youre wrong. And yes I did pull 100 out of my ass, but it was to prove that you cannot obtain a lifetime supply of iron in that small amount of time
Well, it depends on how much you use iron. To me, a stack and a half is a lifetime supply. It doesn't matter though, because infinite iron is pretty crazy considering how fast you could build those.
so your saying that you will have an infinite amount of iron as soon as your mob trap is finished?
lol hardly. you wouldn't even have 100 iron ingots that you could have gotten from mining as you claim.
Would you believe someone complained about me building a giant building for fast sheep farming for wool collecting just because I'm getting wool faster than he is? Yeah.
That building took me god-knows-how-long time to build. In the same amount of time, I could have just make a fenced off area with sheep inside it to collect more wool than spending all the time messing around with redstone, pistons and water movements.
So, what would be the problem most people see in mob farms? "it is an exploit". It is an exploit till the developer says that "It is part of the game", then it isn't. Do you guys remember when there was the piston glitch where you can make infinite items? That was unintended and people are 'exploiting' it. For mobs, however, they were intended to move around like that, intended to drop what they are dropping and for us players to collect it. We are just making a huge building just to do one thing: Making it easier for us to collect those items. In the time one person takes to make a hostile mob farm, he/she could have just gone outside, kill some mobs and come back with probably more items. Iron golems are intended to drop iron when they die (obviously) and it is because the way they spawn and the way they move allow us to farm them. Is it an exploit? No. So if jeb and jon decides to nerf it, we don't really care all that much; we can just readjust the farm. Same with hostile mobs; when notch and jeb decided to change the way hostile mobs move and spawns, we just change our farms. Simple as that. It takes work to make and change a farm, so it is a totally valid way of obtaining items.
50 seconds of suffocation to kill. Its a quite a bit more costly then the short lava grinders but with the current spawning parameters you can build a grinder that can easily generate large number of golems to suffocate, even while one group is suffocating. And with splash potions you have a nice quick way to kill the damaged group without having to hit them one at a time although if you do stick to using your hands then the amount of golems in the grinder will get larger and larger since it keeps taking longer to smack them all down.
this is why their spawn rate needs to be nerfed and making the drops player-kill only would be completely pointless.
Please refrain from going off topic , arguing and general trolling. Any futher spam in this thread will cause it to be closed and warnings givin to those involved.
Lol totally agree with you, I got several farms up, from mobs to crops to XP farms. Both the admins on the server I played on are indirectly complaining about my "obsession" with farms. My mob tower alone took me nearly a week to complete, with all the resource collecting and stuff. Basically, I'm just playing around and utilize what the game can do, one of them is automating stuff which is probably my favorite.
To keep it simple, they're probably not happy about those farms because they have economy plug in installed on the server and I've basically monopolized most of the resources, but yea. :tongue.gif:
A Village
3 Iron minimum (6 for two buckets)
2 Water source blocks made into an infinite water source
1 Lava source block
Dirt/Other block (Cobblestone is most readily available. Cobble generator anyone? Infinite blocks AND tools until your Iron farm is done)
Wood (Signs for water elevators, Doors for final trap)
Overall, finding the village is the hardest part of setting up this infinite Iron farm.
So really, there is no need to be well established. Just go looking for some surface lava, a lake, a few saplings, and maybe a bit of spelunking to get the 3 (6) Iron needed.
Ridiculous what you can achieve using Stone Tools, really...
I'm just gonna say that anyone who chooses to make one of these farms never has to go looking for Iron ever again, what with the constant Iron drops. Great for automation, but I personally believe that having such a ridiculous drop rate (even with the upcoming nerf to spawn rate) still makes this farm too good.
I'm not against being able to farm Iron. I'm against waiting five minutes for a full stack of Iron Ingots.
Instead of straight nerfing the spawn rate, what about altering the spawn parameters? If iron golems spawned around the perimeter of the village, instead of "near the villagers", they wouldn't land in the grinder all the time. Seriously, I've found iron golems trapped in the village houses.
If your goal is getting the most ore you can, then you should stop trying to clear out entire chunks- that is highly inefficient. Or use stone picks to dig out the stone and save your iron/diamond for the ore blocks.
There are massive debates on the "best" way to go about obtaining ores, so I'm just offering this as one solution out of many:
Stop mining at bedrock level, and stop branch mining. Instead, mine a straight tunnel 2 blocks high at y=10 or 11. Carry a water bucket to deal with lava, and when you find caves or mineshafts be sure to explore them. You will usually average a bare minimum of 6 diamond for every non-enchanted diamond pick you consume, and in many cases a lot more.
I personally enchant my diamond picks at level 5 or lower, and usually get Unbreaking I about once every 4 or 5 tries. When a pick is almost used up, with nothing showing in the bar, I stuff it in a chest. If I get an enchant other than Unbreaking, I use the dead pick to remove it (by repairing) and then enchant it again. So I usually get an Unbreaking every 2 or 3 picks that I go through. Even Unbreaking I will extend the life of a diamond pick by a noticeable amount, and using one I tend to average a minimum of around 12 diamonds per pick.
The world is large enough that you shouldn't need to worry about completely clearing chunks out, even on heavily used multiplayer servers. And on multiplayer, while you're trying to dig out that last bit of iron, some jerk with an Xray Mod is busy grabbing all the diamond nearby... so you're better off heading out into fresh areas any how.
In any event, I do think the golems need some nerfing. But if you're having trouble coming up with enough iron than you're doing something wrong.
Someone did a test and got one working in 80 minutes on a fresh world where they knew where a village was... But, this was 80 minutes of decided effort towards the construction of such a farm. You're kinda missing the whole point... What harm does a mob farm actually do in a game?
In SMP, it can be removed easily by any admin who actually cares about their server. It can also be dismantled, or claimed, by anyone who happens to find it (ever filled someone's bedroom with lava while they were offline?). So balance issues on that end are quickly resolved. There are already server fixes for this very issue. Play on better servers.
In SSP, there are easier ways of cheating, and ultimately limited things you can do with a chest of iron, nevermind a virtually endless supply. What little you could do with such a supply themselves don't take a ridiculous amount of time and isn't always something that a person can care to do. It is also their own game, so what they decide to do is their business and shouldn't affect you one way or another. Since this is something that someone has to consciously decide to do through deliberate effort, it shouldn't impact normal play AT ALL. Case in point... Some of the mods which allow people to CRAFT diamond from dirt. They don't impact you unless you use them, and those who do use them remove it or stop using it soon after because half the point of playing is now gone.
Yes, it is troubling when someone pisses themselves instead of going to the bathroom, but like the situation here... They are the ones who have to deal with the actual consequences of their actions.
Mostly moved on. May check back a few times a year.
Sorry, didn't see that post. Maybe I'm just going blind but what page of this thread is it in or is it in another thread? Still, unless this area limiting golem spawns is quite a bit larger then the current one, the trap would still mass up lots of golems because it involves transporting them fairly far to a holding cell well out of the connected villagers' range so more continue to spawn in, and that cell is isn't even the suffocation chamber. Like I said its quite a bit more costly then the current lava traps, but it does manage to keep comparable drop rates.
I'm not clearing out chunks near bedrock for ore, I'm clearing them out because I build there. But, as a side effect, I do wind up with the ore. All of my actual "mining" is done by exploring abandoned mineshafts.
Oh my god no. I was quoting your original post where you said you could get infinite iron in the time it takes you to make a golem grinder.
I was saying the most you could possibly mine and smelt in that time is 100. Please go back and read your first post >:
*Sigh* You are not quoting my OP - I never said that you can gather infinite of anything in my OP
What you are saying makes no sense because:
YOU should go back and read the first post! Thank You.
, or at least read the OP before you say you're "quoting it" *facepalm
My mistake. You said "lifetime supply of iron" and not "an infinite supply of iron." Either way youre wrong. And yes I did pull 100 out of my ass, but it was to prove that you cannot obtain a lifetime supply of iron in that small amount of time
if you "pulled it out of your ass" it doesn't prove anything...