Atlassian sells products. They chose to produce an API by which others could write plugins for their products, and they chose to embrace commercial development of plugins (as well as free development). Perhaps you could explain some way in which its actually different?
Eclipse is different, but I still think it's an interesting illustration of how commercial plugins can become a valuable part of an ecosystem. In the case of Eclipse it is particularly interesting because the platform itself is open source, yet has no problem embracing commercial software.
Actually, they stated you could have a link to your website, and you would be free to point this link directly to some donation page if you chose. You cannot force people to pay for your plugin if you make it available in Mojang's central repository. (Well, maybe you could if you could build some license system into the plugin.)
On the other hand, you can always force people to pay for your plugin by having them download it directly. Which isn't that much of a problem if you're only distributing a single plugin. But if you're writing a complex mod it might be built from dozens of plugins. You'll want to make it easy for users to download and install them all, as well as receive updates.
To enable the latter case, Mojang would need to support resolving plugins from 3rd party repositories, as well as authentication to those repositories. Which shouldn't be that difficult (if they use an existing plugin system it would probably already be supported).
Mojang should support 3rd party repositories anyway. Plugin authors will want to be able to make development snapshots easily available without having to push it to the central repository.
Creating a marketplace is a big step beyond that, which might be of benefit to Mojang but I would not argue it should be a priority.
This is all about your own prejudices. You don't want people to be allowed to charge for their work. You've failed to provide any justification for that, however.
By the way, the reason no one charges for their mods is probably because the mods are technically illegal (as they are a violation of Mojang's copyrights), and Mojang might not look the other way if people started charging. Having an official API changes that. I expect the vast majority of plugins would remain free in any case.
Just to be clear, I'm not a mod author. I'm speaking as a Minecraft player and professional software developer who has no objection to people being paid for their work. If supporting commercial Minecraft plugins results in more high-quality plugins being available, sounds like a win to me.
Again you are comparing apples to oranges. Give me an example in the gaming industry. I do not understand why you are trying to use Atlassian as an example of this, Atlassian sells:
-Jira: A project tracker that can be configured for tracking things like calendar issues or bugs.
-Confluence: A social networking tool that looks like a combination between twitter, a chat room and an email system.
-Clover: More or less a graphical organizer. Provides metrics.
Then they have a store and while they call them "add-ons" it is more, other products that work with what we sell.
These are all products aimed to help the developing strains of producing software products. These are not game modifications. This is not derivative work.
Give me a game studio that allows their modding community to sell their product, give me an example where modifications of a base game, a derivative work, were given open permission to sell their products and this was successful. I cannot think of anything extending back twenty years. This is why the rest of the major modding communities, the Bethesda community, the Blizzard Community, etc, do not allow plugins to be sold. I really do not think you have an understanding of the industry, especially after you comment about the legality of Mojang dictating what people are allowed to do with mods.
If you personally want to pay money to a mod author, then go ahead and donate to them, do not force the rest of us to do so, stop trying to change how every other modding community has handled for the past twenty years, something that at its heart is a HOBBY into something that is not productive for the player base.
If they can't afford a plugin then they won't be able to play with it. Just like anything else in life.
So you think that people should be forced to pay for a minecraft mod just because its "just like anything else in life"? User made paid DLC sounds like literally the worst idea ever. I can not even begin to list all the contingencies, problems, and general doo doo flingin' that would arise should people be forced to pay for mods. I think that letting people that want to really show the modder their appreciation that donate money probably end up giving them more than a paid deal would anyways.
Again you are comparing apples to oranges. Give me an example in the gaming industry. ... These are all products aimed to help the developing strains of producing software products. These are not game modifications. This is not derivative work.
Why do I have to give you an example in the gaming industry? Why does that matter? What makes a Minecraft plugin (written to the official API) a derivative work, but a plugin to JIRA is not?
If you personally want to pay money to a mod author, then go ahead and donate to them, do not force the rest of us to do so, stop trying to change how every other modding community has handled for the past twenty years, something that at its heart is a HOBBY into something that is not productive for the player base.
No one is forcing you to do anything. Whether a plugin author wishes to provide their work for free or to charge for it is their decision.
The only reason you (and Megafunk) have for arguing against commercial plugins is that you don't want (or can't afford) to pay for them. As I do not expect you to consider any rational argument on this matter, I see no reason to continue the conversion. I believe my point has been sufficiently made.
Why do I have to give you an example in the gaming industry? Why does that matter? What makes a Minecraft plugin (written to the official API) a derivative work, but a plugin to JIRA is not?
No one is forcing you to do anything. Whether a plugin author wishes to provide their work for free or to charge for it is their decision.
The only reason you (and Megafunk) have for arguing against commercial plugins is that you don't want (or can't afford) to pay for them. As I do not expect you to consider any rational argument on this matter, I see no reason to continue the conversion. I believe my point has been sufficiently made.
Because I don't go around comparing how different industries run their respective businesses, that is why I am asking for an example within the gaming industry, because I know you cannot come up with an example to support your point.
I really do not care if you are running from this conversation, you've given weak ass counterpoints and your thought process lies in the realms of dreams, none of your points are rooted in reality, you do not comprehend how much of a hassle it would be to do paid mods not just for Mojang, but for the community.
But nice cop out trying to get the last word seeming like the better man who won the conversation, please don't reply to me since, as you've said, you have made your point more than sufficient.
Yaaaaay! Now all we need is an actual cool terrain generator. No, I don't want Pre-Beta 1.8 gen back, I want something BETTER. Pre-1.8 was pretty darn good. Massive mountains and cliffs, huge plains of flat land, big floating islands and cool beaches!
I want this and also the option to generate a Pre Beta 1.8 world and a Pre Alpha 1.2.6 world (Alpha would make old grass too)
Because I don't go around comparing how different industries run their respective businesses, that is why I am asking for an example within the gaming industry, because I know you cannot come up with an example to support your point.
I really do not care if you are running from this conversation, you've given weak ass counterpoints and your thought process lies in the realms of dreams, none of your points are rooted in reality, you do not comprehend how much of a hassle it would be to do paid mods not just for Mojang, but for the community.
But nice cop out trying to get the last word seeming like the better man who won the conversation, please don't reply to me since, as you've said, you have made your point more than sufficient.
Well I think you're an idiot. Eclipse is a programming development tool and Minecraft is a sandbox Java game. But both are still programs. Both also have (will have in the case of Minecraft) an official API for writing plugins for themselves. Eclipse plugins can be offered free or for charge. You can also write plugins for web browsers and charge money for them. I don't see how there is any difference.
I don't actively write Minecraft plugins anymore, but I have in the past mostly for personal uses. If it were allowable to charge for mods, I probably wouldn't charge for one unless it had enough work put into it, say like the Aether mod. As a player, I wouldn't mind paying for a mod if was decent enough. Most minecraft mod developers probably wont charge money for their mods, but their should still be the option available.
PS. Consider Valve. It's in the gaming industry, and it has a api platform. You can use it to make mods or games, and I'm pretty sure it's up to you if you charge money or not. https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Steamworks
Because I don't go around comparing how different industries run their respective businesses, that is why I am asking for an example within the gaming industry, because I know you cannot come up with an example to support your point.
I really do not care if you are running from this conversation, you've given weak ass counterpoints and your thought process lies in the realms of dreams, none of your points are rooted in reality, you do not comprehend how much of a hassle it would be to do paid mods not just for Mojang, but for the community.
But nice cop out trying to get the last word seeming like the better man who won the conversation, please don't reply to me since, as you've said, you have made your point more than sufficient.
The guy is right, you are wrong and on top of that, you're splitting hair to try to win an argument that you lost.
This is so amazing, and I'm incredibly excited... but I feel sad, because they previously said there would be less big vanilla updates, and they would rely on mods.
I guess it'll be a good trade-off, but I'll be sad to not be constantly looking forward to more vanilla updates, as most mods usually don't brilliantly capture the feeling of the game... :/
I'm fairly certain it's free to make mods, and I think MCP will stick around for a bit since the API isn't supporting client mods just yet...
If memory serves they specifically said in the panel that mods like the minimap would be possible in the game. The specific question was something like
"Will you ever add functionality like Rei's Minimap directly into the game"
"No, but you could get a mod for that".
Oddly there seems to be confusion even in the initial post that summarizes the panel (I might be the one that is confused, though, in fact that's probably more likely, but I haven't been able to interpret the panel as saying client side mods would be impossible)... If you can stand people asking really stupid questions*, it's a good idea to give it a go if you are interested in details. I don't remember anything specific that said there would be no way to have Client-side modifications. Obviously they would be necessary since mods will be adding blocks and textures and whatnot, so they are going to have client-side assets.
On a side note, the panel was actually HILARIOUS... when people ask a dumb question you can see Dinnerbone looking off into space with a neutral smile, going to his happy place and mentally stabbing the people who constantly asked questions like "are you adding new mobs" or "Are you adding smoothstone slabs"
*Seriously... who goes to the convention to a game, get's a chance to ask the developers a question, and then asks "How long has this game been around"? An idiot, that's who.
How about giving a non ambiguous statement about bukkit server side plugin compability?
What do you mean? They said that they didn't know if bukkit would still be around after the API launched. They stated that the API does all of bukkit's functionality plus a ton more. They stated that if bukkit continues development after the API is launched it would have to be based on top of the API to function. Yeah bukkit plugins would work with the new API, but just like every other mod, you'd have to do the conversion.
WTH do you mean with cheater, in SMP the only thing it does is provide a minimap and waypont, no mob detection or anything, so how is that considered cheating?
Because it defeats the purpose of the regular (item) map.
Iunno.
Overall, the game engine is being simplified, taking most of the load off of the client, and having the server doing the heavy work, greatly improving SMP
I'm positively ("taking most of the load off of the client") and negatively ("having the server doing the heavy work") surprised. Minecraft servers are already VERY requiring hardware. It's good to optimize a client, but what about server?
Again you are comparing apples to oranges. Give me an example in the gaming industry. I do not understand why you are trying to use Atlassian as an example of this, Atlassian sells:
-Jira: A project tracker that can be configured for tracking things like calendar issues or bugs.
-Confluence: A social networking tool that looks like a combination between twitter, a chat room and an email system.
-Stash: A manager for Git repositories.
-FishEye: Browse and search function for code.
-Crucible: Peer feedback system for code.
-Bamboo: Automated software building/testing/deploying.
-Clover: More or less a graphical organizer. Provides metrics.
Then they have a store and while they call them "add-ons" it is more, other products that work with what we sell.
These are all products aimed to help the developing strains of producing software products. These are not game modifications. This is not derivative work.
Give me a game studio that allows their modding community to sell their product, give me an example where modifications of a base game, a derivative work, were given open permission to sell their products and this was successful. I cannot think of anything extending back twenty years. This is why the rest of the major modding communities, the Bethesda community, the Blizzard Community, etc, do not allow plugins to be sold. I really do not think you have an understanding of the industry, especially after you comment about the legality of Mojang dictating what people are allowed to do with mods.
If you personally want to pay money to a mod author, then go ahead and donate to them, do not force the rest of us to do so, stop trying to change how every other modding community has handled for the past twenty years, something that at its heart is a HOBBY into something that is not productive for the player base.
So you think that people should be forced to pay for a minecraft mod just because its "just like anything else in life"? User made paid DLC sounds like literally the worst idea ever. I can not even begin to list all the contingencies, problems, and general doo doo flingin' that would arise should people be forced to pay for mods. I think that letting people that want to really show the modder their appreciation that donate money probably end up giving them more than a paid deal would anyways.
Why do I have to give you an example in the gaming industry? Why does that matter? What makes a Minecraft plugin (written to the official API) a derivative work, but a plugin to JIRA is not?
No one is forcing you to do anything. Whether a plugin author wishes to provide their work for free or to charge for it is their decision.
The only reason you (and Megafunk) have for arguing against commercial plugins is that you don't want (or can't afford) to pay for them. As I do not expect you to consider any rational argument on this matter, I see no reason to continue the conversion. I believe my point has been sufficiently made.
Because I don't go around comparing how different industries run their respective businesses, that is why I am asking for an example within the gaming industry, because I know you cannot come up with an example to support your point.
I really do not care if you are running from this conversation, you've given weak ass counterpoints and your thought process lies in the realms of dreams, none of your points are rooted in reality, you do not comprehend how much of a hassle it would be to do paid mods not just for Mojang, but for the community.
But nice cop out trying to get the last word seeming like the better man who won the conversation, please don't reply to me since, as you've said, you have made your point more than sufficient.
I want this and also the option to generate a Pre Beta 1.8 world and a Pre Alpha 1.2.6 world (Alpha would make old grass too)
Well I think you're an idiot. Eclipse is a programming development tool and Minecraft is a sandbox Java game. But both are still programs. Both also have (will have in the case of Minecraft) an official API for writing plugins for themselves. Eclipse plugins can be offered free or for charge. You can also write plugins for web browsers and charge money for them. I don't see how there is any difference.
I don't actively write Minecraft plugins anymore, but I have in the past mostly for personal uses. If it were allowable to charge for mods, I probably wouldn't charge for one unless it had enough work put into it, say like the Aether mod. As a player, I wouldn't mind paying for a mod if was decent enough. Most minecraft mod developers probably wont charge money for their mods, but their should still be the option available.
PS. Consider Valve. It's in the gaming industry, and it has a api platform. You can use it to make mods or games, and I'm pretty sure it's up to you if you charge money or not. https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Steamworks
The guy is right, you are wrong and on top of that, you're splitting hair to try to win an argument that you lost.
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ModeratorI guess it'll be a good trade-off, but I'll be sad to not be constantly looking forward to more vanilla updates, as most mods usually don't brilliantly capture the feeling of the game... :/
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Curse PremiumIf memory serves they specifically said in the panel that mods like the minimap would be possible in the game. The specific question was something like
"Will you ever add functionality like Rei's Minimap directly into the game"
"No, but you could get a mod for that".
Oddly there seems to be confusion even in the initial post that summarizes the panel (I might be the one that is confused, though, in fact that's probably more likely, but I haven't been able to interpret the panel as saying client side mods would be impossible)... If you can stand people asking really stupid questions*, it's a good idea to give it a go if you are interested in details. I don't remember anything specific that said there would be no way to have Client-side modifications. Obviously they would be necessary since mods will be adding blocks and textures and whatnot, so they are going to have client-side assets.
On a side note, the panel was actually HILARIOUS... when people ask a dumb question you can see Dinnerbone looking off into space with a neutral smile, going to his happy place and mentally stabbing the people who constantly asked questions like "are you adding new mobs" or "Are you adding smoothstone slabs"
*Seriously... who goes to the convention to a game, get's a chance to ask the developers a question, and then asks "How long has this game been around"? An idiot, that's who.
What do you mean? They said that they didn't know if bukkit would still be around after the API launched. They stated that the API does all of bukkit's functionality plus a ton more. They stated that if bukkit continues development after the API is launched it would have to be based on top of the API to function. Yeah bukkit plugins would work with the new API, but just like every other mod, you'd have to do the conversion.
Because it defeats the purpose of the regular (item) map.
Iunno.
Profile pic by Cheshirette c:
I'm positively ("taking most of the load off of the client") and negatively ("having the server doing the heavy work") surprised. Minecraft servers are already VERY requiring hardware. It's good to optimize a client, but what about server?
Inactive on these forums. Use Steam or Discord if you want to say hi
I want to know if a mod needs to be updated with every game update like they do today?
I don't think so, but I'm not sure.