Note the small dimensions and basically equal situations in front of and behind the doors. This entire building is completely sealed, no openings or transparent windows to the outside anywhere, yet they breed and try to stay "inside" the "village" most of the time. This is in the Overworld, by the way.
Kind of shakes things up, doesn't it?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sometimes, I just wanna give up, say 'I'm done with this mess' and go to bed. But you know what; you can't shrug off your responsibilities. You got to pull yourself up and meet the challenges head on. That's the only way you're gonna get ahead in life."
Sure does. Are you playing in 1.3.2 or a snapshot?
Plain 1.3.2, and they still persist in this behavior with all of my mods disabled.
By the way, I first heard about this sometime last month, when I said it's impossible to build a functioning village in the Nether and was told I was wrong, but I never actually tried it until now. It's not like I ever really wanted to build a village in the Nether, or in a cave.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sometimes, I just wanna give up, say 'I'm done with this mess' and go to bed. But you know what; you can't shrug off your responsibilities. You got to pull yourself up and meet the challenges head on. That's the only way you're gonna get ahead in life."
Note the small dimensions and basically equal situations in front of and behind the doors. This entire building is completely sealed, no openings or transparent windows to the outside anywhere, yet they breed and try to stay "inside" the "village" most of the time. This is in the Overworld, by the way.
I am unable to replicate this. Is there any chance you could put up a world download I could have a look at?
When you built your thing, did you put the doors up first, or last? Does it still work after you relog? Because the game has a thing where when a door stops being a house, the game doesn't always recognize this right away. So if you, for example, put up the floor, then the doors, then the ceiling, they could have been counted as houses temporarily while the ceiling was going up. Then when it was finished, they may no longer count but haven't been reevaluated yet so the game is still treating them like they do. Relogging causes a reevaluation and, if that is what is going on, they would no longer count.
After I took the first pic, I destroyed the outermost ring of the ceiling blocks. This made each door count as a house. Then I replaced the blocks and the game still thought they were houses:
Then when I quit and reload the game, they are not houses again:
EDIT: I'm not seeing valid houses (either from the Village Info mod or from villager behavior) in the end or in the nether, either, not even when I bust a hole through the bedrock ceiling in the nether. I'd really like to have a look at your world download and see what's going on...if you could put it up on mediafire, or something?
Edit 2: Odd, after doing some testing in the end and the nether, I came back to this one and there was a baby there. The Village Info mod still didn't show it as a village or any houses, but there was clearly a tiny villager. And in the end, it didn't show a village according to the mod, but I saw breeding there as well, eventually. Strange...
Edit 3: Oh wait a minute. The baby in the overworld structure there could have been from when I busted out the ceiling and it actually did count as a village for a minute. In fact yeah, in that picture there it shows 3 villagers already. Gonna kill them all right now and put 2 more, see if I can replicate it again. Still doesn't explain the ones in the end, though...
I made and zipped a new world with buildings set up. What confuses me is that the one in the Overworld works fine, but in this case, the one in the Nether doesn't, even though they are the exact same and I built them in the same order (doors last). There's only one problem... how the $#@! do you upload to MediaFire anymore? I used to be able to, but now when I go to the site all it does is try to shove a registration down my throat.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sometimes, I just wanna give up, say 'I'm done with this mess' and go to bed. But you know what; you can't shrug off your responsibilities. You got to pull yourself up and meet the challenges head on. That's the only way you're gonna get ahead in life."
There's only one problem... how the $#@! do you upload to MediaFire anymore? I used to be able to, but now when I go to the site all it does is try to shove a registration down my throat.
Mmh I don't know. Maybe they won't let you upload now without registering first. Google turned up a couple services that don't look like they require a signup.
Found a service that appears to work, after several that require registration, one that lets you upload but not actually get the link without registering, and one that tried to give me a trojan. Linky, if there are any inappropriate ads or anything I'm sorry, I don't see them so I don't know.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sometimes, I just wanna give up, say 'I'm done with this mess' and go to bed. But you know what; you can't shrug off your responsibilities. You got to pull yourself up and meet the challenges head on. That's the only way you're gonna get ahead in life."
Linky, if there are any inappropriate ads or anything I'm sorry, I don't see them so I don't know.
I had to disable my javascript blocker temporarily to download the file, but that was all (don't know if there were any ads, because I didn't have to disable my ad-blocker ). But I see what's going on here almost immediately. Most of those doors are only 2 blocks away from the outer wall. It doesn't matter that you put a wall up, all that matters are the ceiling/roof blocks above and how far out past the doors they extend. And on 3 sides of the structure, they only extend 3 blocks past the doors towards the outside. The doors on the side facing the nether portal do not count, because they have that extra roof making for five covered spaces on each side, but the rest of the doors have five covered ("inside") spaces on one side and only three (and two uncovered, "outside" spaces) on the other, making them count as houses.
Village Info agrees with me, and shows that as a village with 24 (not 32, because the doors along that one side are all negated) houses. The one in the nether is not shown as counting as a village at all.
However, none of this explains why villagers are able to breed in the end without it being recognized as a "village" by the mod. Perhaps the village and breeding mechanics work just the same but the mod simply does not recognize it as a village because it's only written to recognize them in the overworld?
There is no day or night in the end so I can't really test if the villagers treat it as a proper "house" by going inside at night or not -- all I can do is watch to see if they breed, which they do. I suppose I could also just spawn in a bunch of villagers and then wait for an iron golem to spawn.
That's still useful though, it means that if you want to build a secret village trading station in SMP you don't have to leave it open anywhere, just set up close enough to a square that is open. And even though this particular version isn't working, I swear I had villagers breeding in the Nether yesterday, so there's something decidedly weird going on there. I mean, there isn't a single "outside" block in the whole of the natural Nether.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sometimes, I just wanna give up, say 'I'm done with this mess' and go to bed. But you know what; you can't shrug off your responsibilities. You got to pull yourself up and meet the challenges head on. That's the only way you're gonna get ahead in life."
That's still useful though, it means that if you want to build a secret village trading station in SMP you don't have to leave it open anywhere, just set up close enough to a square that is open.
Yeah, we already knew that though, it stems from a logical extension of what we know about the way "houses" are identified to begin with.
And even though this particular version isn't working, I swear I had villagers breeding in the Nether yesterday, so there's something decidedly weird going on there. I mean, there isn't a single "outside" block in the whole of the natural Nether.
I'd have to see it to believe it. Not unless you bust out the bedrock ceiling first, and all the netherrack. It just goes against everything I (believe I) know about the way "houses" are identified. They do breed in the end, though, and will even spawn iron golems:
I didn't make that guy. I did spawn in most of the villagers because I didn't want to wait that long for them to breed all the way up from just two, but they were also making babies, and the golem is natural.
If i spawn an iron golem by myself would it protect villagers anyway?
Sure will. Golems, both natural and player-built, will attack any hostile mob they see except for creepers, wolves, slimes, magma cubes, and ghasts, even though zombies are the only ones that will actually attack the villagers themselves.
I have a question on village height requirements. I currently have castle on a hill as my home base and want to building a npc village at the bottom of the hill. My village plan would exceed the population max before zombie invasions. I do not want my castle safe-house to be included in the "village area" because I do not want to have to worry about zombies spawning inside my safe-house. How exactly do the height rules work. The lowest door for my castle is 8 blocks above the lowest door in my village, but some of the houses are 2 story, meaning the castle door is only 5 blocks above the highest door.
Also, is the radius of the village a true circle or is it diamond shaped. The radius is easy to determine in a straight line but when you go diagonal from the city center, I am a little confused as to how far you go before you're outside the radius.
It's a sphere with radius r equal to the village radius (minimum 32 blocks, more for large villages) centered around the average coordinates of all the doors in the village.
Distance from the center is measured linearly by the Pythagorean theorem:
a^2 + b^2 = c^2
That's the formula for the length c of the hypotenuse of a right triangle. Or for the distance between two points, in two dimensions. But we're working in all three here, so what you do is then take the distance c and use it as one side of another triangle, with the height d as the other side, and do it again:
c^2 + d^2 = e^2
But, since we already know that a^2 + b^2 is the same as c^2 (that's what the "=" sign means, after all), we can substitute one for the other, and eliminate the need for two separate steps, arriving at:
a^2 + b^2 + d^2 = e^2
...where a, b, and d are the distance along each axis (doesn't matter which is which) and e is the final linear distance from point to point.
If the distance from inside your castle to the village center is greater than 32 (or greater than the village radius, if you build it big enough to have a radius above the minimum length of 32) then you will be outside the village boundary and no zombie siege will spawn there.
That's assuming that there are no villagers in or near your castle, and so it does not count as a village in and of itself. If there are any villagers nearby, and the doors in your castle meet the requirements for "village houses" as laid out in the first post, then you could run into trouble with the villages overlapping and become a single, larger village. To avoid this, you must ensure that their center points are far enough apart that their spherical boundaries do not overlap. That is, the distance from V1 to V2 must be less than (r1 + r2) where V1 and V2 are the village center points and r1 and r2 are their respective radii. This means they will have to be at least 64 blocks apart, more than that if either village has a radius greater than the 32-block minimum.
Hey guys,
Great thread! I just finished a short youtube video tutorial which features the basics of what you`ve done here IronMagus.
Couldn't actually find anything on youtube about villager breeding beside massive spawning. So I thought it would be helpful with a simple "house/breed" mechanics video.
I'll post the video link here when it's done uploading.
Interior with two villagers about to breed:
Note the small dimensions and basically equal situations in front of and behind the doors. This entire building is completely sealed, no openings or transparent windows to the outside anywhere, yet they breed and try to stay "inside" the "village" most of the time. This is in the Overworld, by the way.
Kind of shakes things up, doesn't it?
Sure does. Are you playing in 1.3.2 or a snapshot?
Village Mechanics: A not-so-brief guide - Update 2017! Now with 1.8 breeding mechanics! Long-overdue trading info, coming soon!
You think magic isn't real? Consider this: for every person, there is a sentence -- a series of words -- which has the power to destroy them.
Plain 1.3.2, and they still persist in this behavior with all of my mods disabled.
By the way, I first heard about this sometime last month, when I said it's impossible to build a functioning village in the Nether and was told I was wrong, but I never actually tried it until now. It's not like I ever really wanted to build a village in the Nether, or in a cave.
I am unable to replicate this. Is there any chance you could put up a world download I could have a look at?
When you built your thing, did you put the doors up first, or last? Does it still work after you relog? Because the game has a thing where when a door stops being a house, the game doesn't always recognize this right away. So if you, for example, put up the floor, then the doors, then the ceiling, they could have been counted as houses temporarily while the ceiling was going up. Then when it was finished, they may no longer count but haven't been reevaluated yet so the game is still treating them like they do. Relogging causes a reevaluation and, if that is what is going on, they would no longer count.
After I took the first pic, I destroyed the outermost ring of the ceiling blocks. This made each door count as a house. Then I replaced the blocks and the game still thought they were houses:
Then when I quit and reload the game, they are not houses again:
EDIT: I'm not seeing valid houses (either from the Village Info mod or from villager behavior) in the end or in the nether, either, not even when I bust a hole through the bedrock ceiling in the nether. I'd really like to have a look at your world download and see what's going on...if you could put it up on mediafire, or something?
Edit 2: Odd, after doing some testing in the end and the nether, I came back to this one and there was a baby there. The Village Info mod still didn't show it as a village or any houses, but there was clearly a tiny villager. And in the end, it didn't show a village according to the mod, but I saw breeding there as well, eventually. Strange...
Edit 3: Oh wait a minute. The baby in the overworld structure there could have been from when I busted out the ceiling and it actually did count as a village for a minute. In fact yeah, in that picture there it shows 3 villagers already. Gonna kill them all right now and put 2 more, see if I can replicate it again. Still doesn't explain the ones in the end, though...
Village Mechanics: A not-so-brief guide - Update 2017! Now with 1.8 breeding mechanics! Long-overdue trading info, coming soon!
You think magic isn't real? Consider this: for every person, there is a sentence -- a series of words -- which has the power to destroy them.
Mmh I don't know. Maybe they won't let you upload now without registering first. Google turned up a couple services that don't look like they require a signup.
Village Mechanics: A not-so-brief guide - Update 2017! Now with 1.8 breeding mechanics! Long-overdue trading info, coming soon!
You think magic isn't real? Consider this: for every person, there is a sentence -- a series of words -- which has the power to destroy them.
I had to disable my javascript blocker temporarily to download the file, but that was all (don't know if there were any ads, because I didn't have to disable my ad-blocker ). But I see what's going on here almost immediately. Most of those doors are only 2 blocks away from the outer wall. It doesn't matter that you put a wall up, all that matters are the ceiling/roof blocks above and how far out past the doors they extend. And on 3 sides of the structure, they only extend 3 blocks past the doors towards the outside. The doors on the side facing the nether portal do not count, because they have that extra roof making for five covered spaces on each side, but the rest of the doors have five covered ("inside") spaces on one side and only three (and two uncovered, "outside" spaces) on the other, making them count as houses.
Village Info agrees with me, and shows that as a village with 24 (not 32, because the doors along that one side are all negated) houses. The one in the nether is not shown as counting as a village at all.
However, none of this explains why villagers are able to breed in the end without it being recognized as a "village" by the mod. Perhaps the village and breeding mechanics work just the same but the mod simply does not recognize it as a village because it's only written to recognize them in the overworld?
There is no day or night in the end so I can't really test if the villagers treat it as a proper "house" by going inside at night or not -- all I can do is watch to see if they breed, which they do. I suppose I could also just spawn in a bunch of villagers and then wait for an iron golem to spawn.
Village Mechanics: A not-so-brief guide - Update 2017! Now with 1.8 breeding mechanics! Long-overdue trading info, coming soon!
You think magic isn't real? Consider this: for every person, there is a sentence -- a series of words -- which has the power to destroy them.
Yeah, we already knew that though, it stems from a logical extension of what we know about the way "houses" are identified to begin with.
I'd have to see it to believe it. Not unless you bust out the bedrock ceiling first, and all the netherrack. It just goes against everything I (believe I) know about the way "houses" are identified. They do breed in the end, though, and will even spawn iron golems:
I didn't make that guy. I did spawn in most of the villagers because I didn't want to wait that long for them to breed all the way up from just two, but they were also making babies, and the golem is natural.
Village Mechanics: A not-so-brief guide - Update 2017! Now with 1.8 breeding mechanics! Long-overdue trading info, coming soon!
You think magic isn't real? Consider this: for every person, there is a sentence -- a series of words -- which has the power to destroy them.
Sure will. Golems, both natural and player-built, will attack any hostile mob they see except for creepers, wolves, slimes, magma cubes, and ghasts, even though zombies are the only ones that will actually attack the villagers themselves.
Village Mechanics: A not-so-brief guide - Update 2017! Now with 1.8 breeding mechanics! Long-overdue trading info, coming soon!
You think magic isn't real? Consider this: for every person, there is a sentence -- a series of words -- which has the power to destroy them.
Also, is the radius of the village a true circle or is it diamond shaped. The radius is easy to determine in a straight line but when you go diagonal from the city center, I am a little confused as to how far you go before you're outside the radius.
Distance from the center is measured linearly by the Pythagorean theorem:
a^2 + b^2 = c^2
That's the formula for the length c of the hypotenuse of a right triangle. Or for the distance between two points, in two dimensions. But we're working in all three here, so what you do is then take the distance c and use it as one side of another triangle, with the height d as the other side, and do it again:
c^2 + d^2 = e^2
But, since we already know that a^2 + b^2 is the same as c^2 (that's what the "=" sign means, after all), we can substitute one for the other, and eliminate the need for two separate steps, arriving at:
a^2 + b^2 + d^2 = e^2
...where a, b, and d are the distance along each axis (doesn't matter which is which) and e is the final linear distance from point to point.
If the distance from inside your castle to the village center is greater than 32 (or greater than the village radius, if you build it big enough to have a radius above the minimum length of 32) then you will be outside the village boundary and no zombie siege will spawn there.
That's assuming that there are no villagers in or near your castle, and so it does not count as a village in and of itself. If there are any villagers nearby, and the doors in your castle meet the requirements for "village houses" as laid out in the first post, then you could run into trouble with the villages overlapping and become a single, larger village. To avoid this, you must ensure that their center points are far enough apart that their spherical boundaries do not overlap. That is, the distance from V1 to V2 must be less than (r1 + r2) where V1 and V2 are the village center points and r1 and r2 are their respective radii. This means they will have to be at least 64 blocks apart, more than that if either village has a radius greater than the 32-block minimum.
Village Mechanics: A not-so-brief guide - Update 2017! Now with 1.8 breeding mechanics! Long-overdue trading info, coming soon!
You think magic isn't real? Consider this: for every person, there is a sentence -- a series of words -- which has the power to destroy them.
Great thread! I just finished a short youtube video tutorial which features the basics of what you`ve done here IronMagus.
Couldn't actually find anything on youtube about villager breeding beside massive spawning. So I thought it would be helpful with a simple "house/breed" mechanics video.
I'll post the video link here when it's done uploading.
Great, let me know when it's done, I'd love to see it!
Village Mechanics: A not-so-brief guide - Update 2017! Now with 1.8 breeding mechanics! Long-overdue trading info, coming soon!
You think magic isn't real? Consider this: for every person, there is a sentence -- a series of words -- which has the power to destroy them.
Hope I got all the info correct.