Ahaha, yeah. If you were a mod you'd have a forum with no one but your lonely self. Hide behind that self-deceiving presentation of "righteous" control. You're basically just censoring everything you don't like.
Funny how you omit quoting the WHOLE statement; the part you missed goes like this:
If you wish to post negative feedback about me, you're quite welcome to (only through accepting reasonable criticism can a person hope to improve upon themselves by addressing their faults and flaws) ... **IF** you are able to do so in a civil and respectful manner.
None of which changes the fact that you've engaged repeatedly in attacks ad hominem abusive.
People, you have to remember that some people actually LIKE CODING!
Yes, in reality, there are some people that would love a job where they code, Notch, obviously didn't expect his hobby to make him a millionaire, it was his HOBBY not a job, from what I've heard though, he enjoys coding, but he obviously likes slacking off, and rolling in money more, everyone does.
What ever, as long as I get updates, even though they may come slow, I don't care, I paid for the game, I have to deal with it, same situation for everyone else that bought the game.
Funny how you omit quoting the WHOLE statement; the part you missed goes like this:
None of which changes the fact that you've engaged repeatedly in attacks ad hominem abusive.
Don't confuse "attacking" with looking at things the way they really are. Truthfully I probably would had never mentioned his real gender if he didn't practically beg me to. Can't say I didn't get a huge kick out of it regardless.
At best maybe I was being my usual asshole self. Hell, you could probably try to say Zontafer was trying to get a reaction out of his posts, which he has. I'm not going to say anything he did was worthy of the title "troll" but he did get quite the reaction. I think purposely trying to deceive the forum community would at least fit your warped idea of what a troll is, and you're defending him. You tell me why I should regret anything I said about him or how his current behavior going by his posts makes him worthy of a serious reply. You can surely try to say the same about me by calling me a "troll". You're quickly becoming even more amusing than he was what with your quick habit of going straight to censorship when actually confronted. Now, can you stop being the control freak you are and actually try to think up a response to all the other valid points that I and others have made to your post?
Don't confuse "attacking" with looking at things the way they really are. Truthfully I probably would had never mentioned his real gender if he didn't practically beg me to. Can't say I didn't get a huge kick out of it regardless.
It became an attack when you suggested that his assumption of a different gender while on this forum, somehow rendered an argument completely unrelated to that topic invalid. That, Veeshush, is when it went from being "just an insult" (or even "just an observationof oddness"), and became an ad hominem abusive.
HEY don't you go all ad hominem abusive on me now
I haven't, yet. Not all insults are attacks ad hominem. I haven't suggested that your on-topic posts or claims are in any way invalidated by the fact you're being an ass-hat. I've only pointed out that you are being an ass-hat.
See the difference? I hope so.
I think purposely trying to deceive the forum community would at least fit your warped idea of what a troll is, and you're defending him.
I know one born-as-a-man individual, who chooses to self-identify as a woman instead. She uses the female pronoun on places like Facebook, and wears female clothing whenever possible. I knew another such, several years back, but we've drifted out of touch since then.
Anyway ... it's called Transsexualism; some people truly want to be a gender other than the one they were born into. Sometimes, to the point of surgery, even.
So, maybe Zontafer wants to be a girl? And online venues are just one place where s/he explores that part of themselves? Certainly, their assuming a different gender does you no harm, AND HAS NO BEARING ON THE VALIDITY OF THEIR ARGUMENTS. So why get such a gigantic hair up your ass about it ...? (I tend to suspect the answer tot hat is homophobia on your part, but obviously, I cannot prove it.)
You tell me why I should regret anything I said about him or how his current behavior going by his posts makes him [un]worthy of a serious reply.
His or her gender is irrelevant to the topic of this thread. His or her truthfulness about their gender is irrelevant to th topic of this thread.
Therefor, any attempt to use either of those points, as supposed leverage to discount or discredit his or her posts to the topic of this thread, are a logical fallacy ... the one known as ad hominem abusive.
Now, can you stop being the control freak you are and actually try to think up a response to all the other valid points that I and others have made to your post?
When someone makes a valid point, and not a "But ... but ... he's a poopie-head!" ....I certainly will respond.
Blizzard takes in $15/month from some 2,000,000 to 3,000,000 players, each month, in North America alone. That's more than MineCraft has made total, ever.
Irrelevant. How much money some other company charges for a service has nothing to do with Notch's sloppy development. Also note that Blizzard didn't charge anyone so much as a single cent before the game was released.
No, you're thinking about this wrong. These aren't updates. Notch isn't updating Minecraft. He's making it. He is working on the finished product that we paid for. None of this is "extra". We have already paid for each and every one of these that comes out up until November. After that time, you may have a point. That is months away, however.
It's hard waiting around for something that you know might never happen; but it's even harder to give up when you know it's everything you ever wanted.
Here's an idea: put your money where your mouth is, if you're such an expert coder. Go make your own game, and manage to sell two million units without spending a dime on advertising, and before the game is ready for final release.
Here's an idea: put your money where your mouth is, if you're such an expert coder. Go make your own game, and manage to sell two million units without spending a dime on advertising, and before the game is ready for final release.
...
Good luck with that.
Isn't this quite the strawman. Instead of refuting any of my actual points, you go on this tangent. The tangent itself also uses flawed logic. You, sir, are an expert debater.
Just because a game sells a lot doesn't mean it's coded well or the development cycle is at all adequate or professional. Also, just because you presume I couldn't do this doesn't mean that Notch is above criticism. There is strong evidence that Mojang's development cycle, particularly in the area of QA, is sloppy and deficient, and it's having a negative impact on this game. That is what I'm judging on.
I have made a few games as personal side-projects in the past, but nothing all that great. I'm a web developer. I work on boring things that people wouldn't be interested in, mostly web-based internal software.
No, for it to be a straw man, I would have to have constructed an easily-rebutted point or position, attempting to falsely tie it to what you had actually said, in order to claim I had successfully rebutted you.
That's not at all what I've done. Instead, I've skipped past all the pointless tit-for-tat stuff, and cut directly to (IMO) the heart of the matter: you have made an Appeal to Authority (claiming to be a coder, and thus, be in a position to judge Notch's performance on terms equal to his own) ... and I've told you to demonstrate that equality.
You, sir, are an expert debater.
At least I know what "straw man" really means.
I'm a web developer.
Which translates worth about dipkiss into "game developer" - kind of like "electrician" oesn't map very well onto "electrical engineer", even though both deal with electricity, wires, and switches.
Which translates worth about dipkiss into "game developer" - kind of like "electrician" oesn't map very well onto "electrical engineer", even though both deal with electricity, wires, and switches.
1) Electrical engineer built something out of conductive duct-tape (or something equally silly)
2) Electrician notices and complains.
3) Electrician gets ignored because he's not an electrical engineer.
No, for it to be a straw man, I would have to have constructed an easily-rebutted point or position, attempting to falsely tie it to what you had actually said, in order to claim I had successfully rebutted you.
That's not at all what I've done. Instead, I've skipped past all the pointless tit-for-tat stuff, and cut directly to (IMO) the heart of the matter: you have made an Appeal to Authority (claiming to be a coder, and thus, be in a position to judge Notch's performance on terms equal to his own) ... and I've told you to demonstrate that equality.
It was a straw man in that you rearranged the argument as such:
Original Argument: Notch has a sloppy and deficient development cycle.
Argument you refuted: I'm better than Notch.
See how the two are actually unrelated yet you only went after the one you constructed? You also seem to have ignored the bit where, even if your argument was at all relevant, it contains only flawed logic.
Knowing how hard it is to code does not mean you are better. I know how hard it is to make a 3d model. I'm pretty shitty at it, but I know how hard it is.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's hard to follow your dreams when you run from your nightmares. --
I am so tired of seeing the same age old excuses being used over and over again:
Argument: Notch is lazy
Counter: MAKE YOUR OWN GAME, BLARGH FAN BOY RAGE
Yeah it's obviously not an argument against Notch being lazy or an excuse for being lazy. I think of it more as a plea to be more understanding of Notch. You know how the saying goes. "Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes."
No wait, that wasn't it...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thread Ninja. Call me ED.
Quote from Tali »
Sssssshepard, the Creepersssss are ~ASssssssssUMING DIRECT CONTROL
I rearranged nothing; you made the argument ... right here:
That was in response to something someone else said. We were talking about his development cycle being sloppy and inadequate, specifically in the area of QA. Let's stick to it, shall we?
As to what that other guy said: "You guys don't know how hard it is to code" is not a good argument for anything. It paints a world where coding is an exceptionally hard thing that only very few people can do when, in all actuality, that's not true. Java programmers, especially, are a dime a dozen since it's by far the most-taught language in colleges and universities.
Tempos, its people like you that I like. You don't spout of random information, and accept you could possibly be wrong.
When I bought Minecraft, there was a lot of things that at one point he said he was going to add (and no, I will not dig through that man's twitter... I don't think I would ever come back), but I don't see much for advancement of that, especially with the final date established, and so many bugs needing fixed without adding new bugs. If I am proven wrong, I will be more than willing to ask forgiveness of this forum, but my personal opinion is that it will not live up to its potential.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's hard to follow your dreams when you run from your nightmares. --
ROFL! Brilliant insight!
- The Cubic Chunks Mod is back! Be a part of it's rebirth and Development.
-- Robinton's Mods: [ Mirror ] for some of his Mods incl Cubic Chunks Mod, due to DropBox broken links.
- Dungeon Generator for the Open Cubic Chunks Mod
- QuickSAVE-QuickLOAD for the Open Cubic Chunks Mod
I'm coding in C# as a hobby, and I type, think, confuse myself, and then get over it all the time. Haven't been complained about yet, tho.
Funny how you omit quoting the WHOLE statement; the part you missed goes like this:
None of which changes the fact that you've engaged repeatedly in attacks ad hominem abusive.
Tell me, do you know how not to be a troll ...?
Yes, in reality, there are some people that would love a job where they code, Notch, obviously didn't expect his hobby to make him a millionaire, it was his HOBBY not a job, from what I've heard though, he enjoys coding, but he obviously likes slacking off, and rolling in money more, everyone does.
What ever, as long as I get updates, even though they may come slow, I don't care, I paid for the game, I have to deal with it, same situation for everyone else that bought the game.
Naa I was just wondering how OP knows Notches daily routine or even his work ethics?
The initial post is assuming a lot about Notch not just programming in general. I can't say they are wrong but you cant say they are right.
Notch have some sort of trannie stalker on his hands or something?
Don't confuse "attacking" with looking at things the way they really are. Truthfully I probably would had never mentioned his real gender if he didn't practically beg me to. Can't say I didn't get a huge kick out of it regardless.
HEY don't you go all ad hominem abusive on me now
At best maybe I was being my usual asshole self. Hell, you could probably try to say Zontafer was trying to get a reaction out of his posts, which he has. I'm not going to say anything he did was worthy of the title "troll" but he did get quite the reaction. I think purposely trying to deceive the forum community would at least fit your warped idea of what a troll is, and you're defending him. You tell me why I should regret anything I said about him or how his current behavior going by his posts makes him worthy of a serious reply. You can surely try to say the same about me by calling me a "troll". You're quickly becoming even more amusing than he was what with your quick habit of going straight to censorship when actually confronted. Now, can you stop being the control freak you are and actually try to think up a response to all the other valid points that I and others have made to your post?
^ See? This guy gets it.
It became an attack when you suggested that his assumption of a different gender while on this forum, somehow rendered an argument completely unrelated to that topic invalid. That, Veeshush, is when it went from being "just an insult" (or even "just an observationof oddness"), and became an ad hominem abusive.
I haven't, yet. Not all insults are attacks ad hominem. I haven't suggested that your on-topic posts or claims are in any way invalidated by the fact you're being an ass-hat. I've only pointed out that you are being an ass-hat.
See the difference? I hope so.
I know one born-as-a-man individual, who chooses to self-identify as a woman instead. She uses the female pronoun on places like Facebook, and wears female clothing whenever possible. I knew another such, several years back, but we've drifted out of touch since then.
Anyway ... it's called Transsexualism; some people truly want to be a gender other than the one they were born into. Sometimes, to the point of surgery, even.
So, maybe Zontafer wants to be a girl? And online venues are just one place where s/he explores that part of themselves? Certainly, their assuming a different gender does you no harm, AND HAS NO BEARING ON THE VALIDITY OF THEIR ARGUMENTS. So why get such a gigantic hair up your ass about it ...? (I tend to suspect the answer tot hat is homophobia on your part, but obviously, I cannot prove it.)
His or her gender is irrelevant to the topic of this thread. His or her truthfulness about their gender is irrelevant to th topic of this thread.
Therefor, any attempt to use either of those points, as supposed leverage to discount or discredit his or her posts to the topic of this thread, are a logical fallacy ... the one known as ad hominem abusive.
When someone makes a valid point, and not a "But ... but ... he's a poopie-head!" ....I certainly will respond.
Irrelevant. How much money some other company charges for a service has nothing to do with Notch's sloppy development. Also note that Blizzard didn't charge anyone so much as a single cent before the game was released.
No, you're thinking about this wrong. These aren't updates. Notch isn't updating Minecraft. He's making it. He is working on the finished product that we paid for. None of this is "extra". We have already paid for each and every one of these that comes out up until November. After that time, you may have a point. That is months away, however.
It take a some 24 hours to create 1 level of Pacman with no ghosts. With now think of Minecraft and how long it'd take.
First rule of coding: when you fix a bug, there's going to always be another bug--bigger or smaller; but always a bug.
Except those of us who do it every day because it's our job. We know exactly how hard it is to code.
Here's an idea: put your money where your mouth is, if you're such an expert coder. Go make your own game, and manage to sell two million units without spending a dime on advertising, and before the game is ready for final release.
...
Good luck with that.
Isn't this quite the strawman. Instead of refuting any of my actual points, you go on this tangent. The tangent itself also uses flawed logic. You, sir, are an expert debater.
Just because a game sells a lot doesn't mean it's coded well or the development cycle is at all adequate or professional. Also, just because you presume I couldn't do this doesn't mean that Notch is above criticism. There is strong evidence that Mojang's development cycle, particularly in the area of QA, is sloppy and deficient, and it's having a negative impact on this game. That is what I'm judging on.
I have made a few games as personal side-projects in the past, but nothing all that great. I'm a web developer. I work on boring things that people wouldn't be interested in, mostly web-based internal software.
Now, refute my actual points, please.
No, for it to be a straw man, I would have to have constructed an easily-rebutted point or position, attempting to falsely tie it to what you had actually said, in order to claim I had successfully rebutted you.
That's not at all what I've done. Instead, I've skipped past all the pointless tit-for-tat stuff, and cut directly to (IMO) the heart of the matter: you have made an Appeal to Authority (claiming to be a coder, and thus, be in a position to judge Notch's performance on terms equal to his own) ... and I've told you to demonstrate that equality.
At least I know what "straw man" really means.
Which translates worth about dipkiss into "game developer" - kind of like "electrician" oesn't map very well onto "electrical engineer", even though both deal with electricity, wires, and switches.
1) Electrical engineer built something out of conductive duct-tape (or something equally silly)
2) Electrician notices and complains.
3) Electrician gets ignored because he's not an electrical engineer.
See how stupid that last line is?
It was a straw man in that you rearranged the argument as such:
Original Argument: Notch has a sloppy and deficient development cycle.
Argument you refuted: I'm better than Notch.
See how the two are actually unrelated yet you only went after the one you constructed? You also seem to have ignored the bit where, even if your argument was at all relevant, it contains only flawed logic.
I rearranged nothing; you made the argument ... right here:
It's hard to follow your dreams when you run from your nightmares. --
No wait, that wasn't it...
That was in response to something someone else said. We were talking about his development cycle being sloppy and inadequate, specifically in the area of QA. Let's stick to it, shall we?
As to what that other guy said: "You guys don't know how hard it is to code" is not a good argument for anything. It paints a world where coding is an exceptionally hard thing that only very few people can do when, in all actuality, that's not true. Java programmers, especially, are a dime a dozen since it's by far the most-taught language in colleges and universities.
When I bought Minecraft, there was a lot of things that at one point he said he was going to add (and no, I will not dig through that man's twitter... I don't think I would ever come back), but I don't see much for advancement of that, especially with the final date established, and so many bugs needing fixed without adding new bugs. If I am proven wrong, I will be more than willing to ask forgiveness of this forum, but my personal opinion is that it will not live up to its potential.
It's hard to follow your dreams when you run from your nightmares. --