If you must use mods, only use those that don't use this.
If you must use a mod that uses this, learn some basic programming and remove it from the mod yourself.
If you don't want to learn, try and find someone who can do it for you.
I'm not opposed to people wanting donations for their work, but putting things in the mods themselves is not something I would ever accept.
We get blasted with ads everywhere else in the world.
I draw the line at it invading my gaming.
Google "EA", "Train Simulator", and "forced ads" to see how EA backed down due to public outrage at their plans to include an ad system to the game that would track which billboard ads you looked at in-game, and display further ads based on that information.
If people hadn't caused such a stink, it would probably be in every EA game by now.
Maybe someone should start a thread with a list of Mods that don't use ads, so people can make an informed choice.
Krush.
I believe he means the download link to the mods, not the mods themselves...if you're finding modders that do that then please link them so we can all find them and do a group lynching...
These popup programs in mods that force people to basically donate are in my opinion, guilty of making profit through the use of minecraft. This is what Notch wanted to prevent through the use of his modding api. Your modders are basically forcing you to pay for their mods with your difficulty of clicking through popups.
With that being said, I believe a modder should be able to ask for donations, something that is freely optional by the user as a gesture of thanks and goodwill. Forcing it on a user however is just wrong and petty and if they wanted to make money for their work they should maybe try other methods... like finding a job.
These popup programs in mods that force people to basically donate are in my opinion, guilty of making profit through the use of minecraft. This is what Notch wanted to prevent through the use of his modding api. Your modders are basically forcing you to pay for their mods with your difficulty of clicking through popups.
With that being said, I believe a modder should be able to ask for donations, something that is freely optional by the user as a gesture of thanks and goodwill. Forcing it on a user however is just wrong and petty and if they wanted to make money for their work they should maybe try other methods... like finding a job.
Then you get no mods. You ****ing like that?
God the you people who disagree with this are idiots, but probably you are young and no idea what work is. Modding takes time, a lot of time, and skill in Java. After spending hours making something only to get flamed on it's lack of updates and idiots begging for more features, I honestly couldn't stand it. I'm proud of modders who constantly provide their mods - I don't expect up-to-date updates to Minecrafts, but at least I understand why.
It's like greifing. Working on something for days only for some idiot to destroy it? How could that make you feel?
Anyway, I give multiple download links for my stuff, and a Paypal link for those that wish to contribute. Better to request donations than to force people to essentially buy it from you.
The point of a modding community is for people to share work and ideas. As an example, mods that use large textures are standing on the shoulders of those who figured out how to implement that.
It creates a disingenuous system to try and profit from minecraft mods in any way. They owe a bit of their profits to both notch and to the others they invariably borrowed ideas from. It's far superior to have a system where everyone shares and share alike without trying to make a buck or two by inserting ads here or there, or other annoying features. There are hundreds of mods out for hundreds of games, done by hobbyists. They don't try and profit at every corner by inconveniencing their fellow users. It's in bad form to try and do that and sours the community. Share it on mediafire or megaupload, or some other free file hosting services. In turn you can download and take part in the general modding community without having to close 5 popup ads every second.
They are free to do what they want with their work, but they shouldn't expect everyone to be happy with the arrangement. For those vociferously attacking those who question this practice, step back and realize that this is a community, not a marketplace, and the very important distinction between the two.
Putting ads on your site isn't making money off your mod. Putting ads on your site is turning your customers into a product that you sell to advertisers via site traffic.
Do you really want to support a developer who will sell you like a slave?
These mod/map/texpack dev's only do it so they can earn a little back from the time they take to make them, and if you don't have the patience to wait five seconds for a download, you don't deserve to download it.
These mod/map/texpack dev's only do it so they can earn a little back from the time they take to make them, and if you don't have the patience to wait five seconds for a download, you don't deserve to download it.
Back in my day, making game mods was called a hobby. If hobbies deserve payment for the time you spend on them, I demand money for playing video games.
Putting ads on your site isn't making money off your mod. Putting ads on your site is turning your customers into a product that you sell to advertisers via site traffic.
Do you really want to support a developer who will sell you like a slave?
Ads pay for the content you are taking. Taking said content while blocking the ads violates the social contract that is implicit in ad-supported content. You are depriving sites of revenue while greedily sucking down the goods they provide. That makes you an unethical asshole. If you're okay with being an anti-social little *****, fine, but don't try to pretend you aren't taking without upholding your end of the deal. And don't play dumb and try to argue away any ethical responsibility on your part, as if the standard doesn't apply to little old you.
None of you who debate against using adf.fly do not deserve the mods! So ungrateful, they put in time to their mod coming straight out of their lives, and all you guys complain about is waisting 5 seconds to give them a little back for their hard work.
None of you who debate against using adf.fly do not deserve the mods! So ungrateful, they put in time to their mod coming straight out of their lives, and all you guys complain about is waisting 5 seconds to give them a little back for their hard work.
I don't think the problem is that they have a pop up, its that they chain pop up from 1 click. I wouldn't mind 1 pop up, 5 seconds later I'm on my way, but if I had a pop up flood, it would **** me off.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's hard to follow your dreams when you run from your nightmares. --
I will let it clear for all of you, you want something in return? Then don't do it. Moding is not a job, it's a hobby. We didn't ask you to do this, you are doing this because you like to do it.
You don't get to make that decision for other people.
If you don't want something, that costs money or costs viewing an ad, you have no intrinsic RIGHT to have that thing at all.
If a thing comes with a cost you are unwilling to pay ... DO WITHOUT THAT THING.
Vote with your wallet, not a five-finger discount.
I will let it clear for all of you, you want something in return? Then don't do it. Moding is not a job, it's a hobby. We didn't ask you to do this, you are doing this because you like to do it.
You don't get to make that decision for other people.
If you don't want something, that costs money or costs viewing an ad, you have no intrinsic RIGHT to have that thing at all.
If a thing comes with a cost you are unwilling to pay ... DO WITHOUT THAT THING.
Vote with your wallet, not a five-finger discount.
Vote with our wallets... look, my wallet is already worn and I want it to last for more time. Don't make me use it more just because you want money for who knows what purpose, but I'm sure it's nothing really usefull.
Life is thought, and getting money is more thought. Deal with it. I'm sorry, but it's like it.
Anyway, you should wait for the mod API, and notch making a mod market. Then you will be able to sell your mods. I don't agree with this but, it's Mohjang's decision and I can't make anything about it. Anyway, don't call me thightfisted, but I am not going to buy (nor get illegaly, of course) any mod. I told you, modding is a hobby, and I don't consider you awared money just to make something you like to make. I wish I could do that, then I would be rich already!
I said I would leave but here am I again. What have I become?
You clearly do not understand the effort some people put into making mods. Take a look at the Aether mod. It's not 'changing some things in the code'. Jesus Christ, that sort of ignorance is so damn annoying. Why do people believe making a mod is just like typing 'Mod, WRITE THYSELF'? It's not. 99.9% is wrote from scratch. The rest is just telling the game to acknowledge the mod.
*sigh*... I don't get this, I don't get that. I have made mods for several things, I know what's the effort it takes.
Anyway, have in mind one thing. Those ads make you wait for a button to appear in the corner of the screen. Many people will click them and see it. What will they see? Ads. And what do you think they will do when they see ads? Leave! Because they will think they are in the wrong page-
Okay, put ads or whatever, but at least make the content more accesible, okay?
Anyway, read my previous part of the post. "Mod market". Notch talked about it in his blog. Wait for it and then you'll have your precious money legally.
Reminds me of this: "The facts sphere is always right."
I stated it above. "Implicit social contract". Note however that that was more in the broader sense of advertisements, not specifically toward minecraft. On account of the post I replied to being in a similar tone. (all ads/people/developers/companies who put ads on their sites, it mentioned mods, but that seemed irrelevant to what I was responding to there). As such I responded to it in that context.
But you are just modifying something that is already done by someone else!
Oh, see, here you are again, thinking was also talking about mods. I didn't mention anything about mods. And most of my development is more or less "from scratch", for better or for worse...
You shouldn't even take any profits from it, since it doesn't even belong to you!
I never said it did. Also note my use of periods, rather than exclamation marks at the end of every sentence.
You should thank Mohjang because he allowed you to decompile the code of HIS program and allow you to make profit with ads of the content they developed
You've reached a false conclusion. First, they don't let anybody decompile the code, that's why they obfuscate it, I would imagine- they make it a gigantic pain in the ass. Second, while I have made a single mod, I haven't released it because it's stupid. And I certainly haven't made a profit off of minecraft, or any minecraft modifications, except of course the profit of pure enjoyment.
because it should be a violation of the copyright
Actually, that depends on the way the mod is distributed, in some ways, the mods that distribute modified class files are in fact breaking copyright And the terms of service, to my understanding.
So, thank him for allowing you to do that instead of insult us!
While I'm sure it's ever so gracious of him to "allow" it (and by allow I assume you mean simply not take action against, which they probably could do). You again assume that I do it, and additionally that I was insulting you. I was speaking more generally about adblockers in general and the ethical implications that can arise from their use. Of course I use AdBlockPlus myself, but at least I acknowledge I'm a egotistical prickface.
Also, get a job!
I already have one. I suggest you stop being a presumptious asshole- and I sure hope you've gotten all your exclamation marks out of your system.
In any case, regarding minecraft mods, that's a different matter altogether.
Back in my day, making game mods was called a hobby.
I don't know what "your day" was, but I do know that Final Doom is basically a collection of mods. Hell ID software hired a couple modders full-time. OTOH, I'm not sure if they charged for their mods, so in that sense it's probably more a means to an end. In any case, I have to agree with this. Also- and I don't think English really provides the proper degree for me to express this, but I don't really have as much respect for people who make mods as do those who make the games that are modded; now, I'm not speaking necessarily about minecraft here. There are a few exceptions; for example many older games have had their source released, and several people took it upon themselves to "modernize" it; in most cases, one, or maybe two of these hobbyists really rips into it; take Duke Nukem 3d; JonoF created JFDuke3d, and TerminX created eduke32; now eduke32 supports an entirely new renderer that supports bump mapping, specular mapping, normal mapping, 3-D models, vector lighting and shadow mapping, etc. So, to be more precise, I have more respect for those that create the engine then those that simply fiddle about with that engine. Now, again, that's just a relative term, that isn't to say I have no respect at all for modders, I have a considerable amount, they've done some good work, and again, I'm not just speaking of minecraft- but I've always been a "engine" type of guy; the nitty-gritty of how stuff works is what fascinates me, not how somebody managed to bend that preprogrammed nitty gritty to their whims (well, not as much, anyway).
As I said, if you want money, get a proper job and earn it. We will not waste a single second for you to get money!
Again, basically a point reiteration of what I quoted above; and yes, this does have merit. However, modding for fun & profit has been commonplace since at least Quake; now some might argue that the mission packs created for the game were created by other companies, but that's hardly relevant, just because a company put together a product rather then a single individual doesn't make it worth money. Just because somebody enjoys doing something doesn't mean that their efforts are valueless.
I have spent AGES working on mods for UT99, UT2k4, CS:S, now I have a website full of stuff for MUGEN made for me, and all of it was and still is FREE. No charge, no ads, nothing! Not even a single "thanks"! I just do it for the fun of it. It's NOT a job, it's a hobby!
Your argument here boils down to "nobody appreciated my mods enough to pay for them or view ads to support me, therefore none of you are". That's somewhat invalid. Particularly since games before those you mentioned had several mods that went commercial or were shareware. Let's extend it to the biggest "hobby" project on the planet- Open Source. There are some damn fine applications and Operating Systems there. Do you contend that you should never have to pay for any distro of Linux simply because the vast majority of the people working on it are in fact hobbyists? Does the fact that some other OS's are developed by companies with employees who work full-time suddenly make their products worth money but not the "hobbyist" OS, simply by virtue of the passion the people who made it have?
If anything, while I don't agree with a lot of the Linux/Open Source mantra, they have one thing that is lacking in a lot of commercial applications- passion. They work on them because they have a passion for programming and the product they want to improve; other companies employees might be bushy-tailed and jubilant at first but it's still a daily grind- it's work, as you said yourself. And they will do it as best they can, but they are being paid for it.
You are in fact saying that the work Commercial software companies do on their commercial applications are worth money while any and all Open Source projects are valueless. your argument is moot. Find a new one.
If you don't want something, that costs money or costs viewing an ad, you have no intrinsic RIGHT to have that thing at all.
Yes, this was essentially the jist of what I posted previously; It doesn't matter what your, or anybody's opinion on the cost/value ratio is. If a terribly crappy mod is behind a adf.ly link, and you don't want to look at an ad, you have no intrinsic right to be able to have that mod simpyl by virtue of the creator being a "hobbyist" slinging about meaningless labels is easy. Using a definition for those labels that can't easily be twisted to fit a completely separate scenario is not (case and point being that if "hobbyist software is never worth money" then "Linux is not worth money" It's free but it's certainly worth money.
You clearly do not understand the effort some people put into making mods. Take a look at the Aether mod. It's not 'changing some things in the code'. Jesus Christ, that sort of ignorance is so damn annoying. Why do people believe making a mod is just like typing 'Mod, WRITE THYSELF'? It's not. 99.9% is wrote from scratch. The rest is just telling the game to acknowledge the mod.
His point is that modding, by it's very virtue, modifies what has already been done by somebody else, in this case, Mojang. The Aether mod is looking very nice. But it isn't "99.9 written from scratch" because it's <STILL> minecraft. Even the new stuff isn't written "From scratch" because it takes advantage of the various functions exposed by mojang within the game itself for things like chunk loading and whatnot. It is a very diligent and well done (so far, judging by the discussion and screenies) mod, but it's still a mod, nothing you say will change that, and as long as it's a mod, it still is a derived work. Now, on the other hand, all that new code, even though it does use various functions from the rest of minecraft, is still completely under the modders control, and that includes license wise, as accorded by the laws governing derivative works. In that sense, they are perfectly within their legal rights to require the viewing of a link, ask for donations, or even CHARGE for their mods.
Wait for it and then you'll have your precious money legally.
As noted above, it's already perfectly legal, as it's covered by derivative works. Of course, if they were to sell the entire mod and minecraft themselves, that would be against the copyright laws in most countries.
I don't consider you awared money just to make something you like to make.
Yet another thinly disguised argument that can easily be twisted to say that the work done on every single open source project ever made is worth less then any single commercial application by virtue of the programmers enjoying themselves when they created it. What a load of bollocks that is.
ran into a few that will chainload, hit one link get 5+ tabs
I see no fault with people wanting to get a little money for the work they put into things.
I believe he means the download link to the mods, not the mods themselves...if you're finding modders that do that then please link them so we can all find them and do a group lynching...
With that being said, I believe a modder should be able to ask for donations, something that is freely optional by the user as a gesture of thanks and goodwill. Forcing it on a user however is just wrong and petty and if they wanted to make money for their work they should maybe try other methods... like finding a job.
Then you get no mods. You ****ing like that?
God the you people who disagree with this are idiots, but probably you are young and no idea what work is. Modding takes time, a lot of time, and skill in Java. After spending hours making something only to get flamed on it's lack of updates and idiots begging for more features, I honestly couldn't stand it. I'm proud of modders who constantly provide their mods - I don't expect up-to-date updates to Minecrafts, but at least I understand why.
It's like greifing. Working on something for days only for some idiot to destroy it? How could that make you feel?
Anyway, I give multiple download links for my stuff, and a Paypal link for those that wish to contribute. Better to request donations than to force people to essentially buy it from you.
It creates a disingenuous system to try and profit from minecraft mods in any way. They owe a bit of their profits to both notch and to the others they invariably borrowed ideas from. It's far superior to have a system where everyone shares and share alike without trying to make a buck or two by inserting ads here or there, or other annoying features. There are hundreds of mods out for hundreds of games, done by hobbyists. They don't try and profit at every corner by inconveniencing their fellow users. It's in bad form to try and do that and sours the community. Share it on mediafire or megaupload, or some other free file hosting services. In turn you can download and take part in the general modding community without having to close 5 popup ads every second.
They are free to do what they want with their work, but they shouldn't expect everyone to be happy with the arrangement. For those vociferously attacking those who question this practice, step back and realize that this is a community, not a marketplace, and the very important distinction between the two.
Do you really want to support a developer who will sell you like a slave?
Back in my day, making game mods was called a hobby. If hobbies deserve payment for the time you spend on them, I demand money for playing video games.
Ads pay for the content you are taking. Taking said content while blocking the ads violates the social contract that is implicit in ad-supported content. You are depriving sites of revenue while greedily sucking down the goods they provide. That makes you an unethical asshole. If you're okay with being an anti-social little *****, fine, but don't try to pretend you aren't taking without upholding your end of the deal. And don't play dumb and try to argue away any ethical responsibility on your part, as if the standard doesn't apply to little old you.
I don't think the problem is that they have a pop up, its that they chain pop up from 1 click. I wouldn't mind 1 pop up, 5 seconds later I'm on my way, but if I had a pop up flood, it would **** me off.
It's hard to follow your dreams when you run from your nightmares. --
You don't get to make that decision for other people.
If you don't want something, that costs money or costs viewing an ad, you have no intrinsic RIGHT to have that thing at all.
If a thing comes with a cost you are unwilling to pay ... DO WITHOUT THAT THING.
Vote with your wallet, not a five-finger discount.
Reminds me of this: "The facts sphere is always right."
Don't want to wait 5 seconds? Then get out.
I stated it above. "Implicit social contract". Note however that that was more in the broader sense of advertisements, not specifically toward minecraft. On account of the post I replied to being in a similar tone. (all ads/people/developers/companies who put ads on their sites, it mentioned mods, but that seemed irrelevant to what I was responding to there). As such I responded to it in that context.
Oh, see, here you are again, thinking was also talking about mods. I didn't mention anything about mods. And most of my development is more or less "from scratch", for better or for worse...
I never said it did. Also note my use of periods, rather than exclamation marks at the end of every sentence.
You've reached a false conclusion. First, they don't let anybody decompile the code, that's why they obfuscate it, I would imagine- they make it a gigantic pain in the ass. Second, while I have made a single mod, I haven't released it because it's stupid. And I certainly haven't made a profit off of minecraft, or any minecraft modifications, except of course the profit of pure enjoyment.
Actually, that depends on the way the mod is distributed, in some ways, the mods that distribute modified class files are in fact breaking copyright And the terms of service, to my understanding.
While I'm sure it's ever so gracious of him to "allow" it (and by allow I assume you mean simply not take action against, which they probably could do). You again assume that I do it, and additionally that I was insulting you. I was speaking more generally about adblockers in general and the ethical implications that can arise from their use. Of course I use AdBlockPlus myself, but at least I acknowledge I'm a egotistical prickface.
I already have one. I suggest you stop being a presumptious asshole- and I sure hope you've gotten all your exclamation marks out of your system.
In any case, regarding minecraft mods, that's a different matter altogether.
I don't know what "your day" was, but I do know that Final Doom is basically a collection of mods. Hell ID software hired a couple modders full-time. OTOH, I'm not sure if they charged for their mods, so in that sense it's probably more a means to an end. In any case, I have to agree with this. Also- and I don't think English really provides the proper degree for me to express this, but I don't really have as much respect for people who make mods as do those who make the games that are modded; now, I'm not speaking necessarily about minecraft here. There are a few exceptions; for example many older games have had their source released, and several people took it upon themselves to "modernize" it; in most cases, one, or maybe two of these hobbyists really rips into it; take Duke Nukem 3d; JonoF created JFDuke3d, and TerminX created eduke32; now eduke32 supports an entirely new renderer that supports bump mapping, specular mapping, normal mapping, 3-D models, vector lighting and shadow mapping, etc. So, to be more precise, I have more respect for those that create the engine then those that simply fiddle about with that engine. Now, again, that's just a relative term, that isn't to say I have no respect at all for modders, I have a considerable amount, they've done some good work, and again, I'm not just speaking of minecraft- but I've always been a "engine" type of guy; the nitty-gritty of how stuff works is what fascinates me, not how somebody managed to bend that preprogrammed nitty gritty to their whims (well, not as much, anyway).
Again, basically a point reiteration of what I quoted above; and yes, this does have merit. However, modding for fun & profit has been commonplace since at least Quake; now some might argue that the mission packs created for the game were created by other companies, but that's hardly relevant, just because a company put together a product rather then a single individual doesn't make it worth money. Just because somebody enjoys doing something doesn't mean that their efforts are valueless.
Your argument here boils down to "nobody appreciated my mods enough to pay for them or view ads to support me, therefore none of you are". That's somewhat invalid. Particularly since games before those you mentioned had several mods that went commercial or were shareware. Let's extend it to the biggest "hobby" project on the planet- Open Source. There are some damn fine applications and Operating Systems there. Do you contend that you should never have to pay for any distro of Linux simply because the vast majority of the people working on it are in fact hobbyists? Does the fact that some other OS's are developed by companies with employees who work full-time suddenly make their products worth money but not the "hobbyist" OS, simply by virtue of the passion the people who made it have?
If anything, while I don't agree with a lot of the Linux/Open Source mantra, they have one thing that is lacking in a lot of commercial applications- passion. They work on them because they have a passion for programming and the product they want to improve; other companies employees might be bushy-tailed and jubilant at first but it's still a daily grind- it's work, as you said yourself. And they will do it as best they can, but they are being paid for it.
You are in fact saying that the work Commercial software companies do on their commercial applications are worth money while any and all Open Source projects are valueless. your argument is moot. Find a new one.
Yes, this was essentially the jist of what I posted previously; It doesn't matter what your, or anybody's opinion on the cost/value ratio is. If a terribly crappy mod is behind a adf.ly link, and you don't want to look at an ad, you have no intrinsic right to be able to have that mod simpyl by virtue of the creator being a "hobbyist" slinging about meaningless labels is easy. Using a definition for those labels that can't easily be twisted to fit a completely separate scenario is not (case and point being that if "hobbyist software is never worth money" then "Linux is not worth money" It's free but it's certainly worth money.
His point is that modding, by it's very virtue, modifies what has already been done by somebody else, in this case, Mojang. The Aether mod is looking very nice. But it isn't "99.9 written from scratch" because it's <STILL> minecraft. Even the new stuff isn't written "From scratch" because it takes advantage of the various functions exposed by mojang within the game itself for things like chunk loading and whatnot. It is a very diligent and well done (so far, judging by the discussion and screenies) mod, but it's still a mod, nothing you say will change that, and as long as it's a mod, it still is a derived work. Now, on the other hand, all that new code, even though it does use various functions from the rest of minecraft, is still completely under the modders control, and that includes license wise, as accorded by the laws governing derivative works. In that sense, they are perfectly within their legal rights to require the viewing of a link, ask for donations, or even CHARGE for their mods.
As noted above, it's already perfectly legal, as it's covered by derivative works. Of course, if they were to sell the entire mod and minecraft themselves, that would be against the copyright laws in most countries.
Yet another thinly disguised argument that can easily be twisted to say that the work done on every single open source project ever made is worth less then any single commercial application by virtue of the programmers enjoying themselves when they created it. What a load of bollocks that is.