I support. The nether is epic in concept but lacking in content and danger. I also agree that having to kill 120 wither skellies is kind of ridiculous. Support.
Thanks to everyone for the support! We are now over 100 supporters!
As MugaSofer said earlier, does anyone looking at this have the ability to mod it, or have a suggestion as to where I could get someone to make a mod?
That would solve a lot of problems on people complaining about balance, because even with this addition it would still take at least 2-3 hours.
@NyrrocKitten:
I'm not really going to get into the addition of new features into the nether (though I would like some) because that isn't what this idea is about. I think you may have misinterpreted something in my OP. I found 3 wither skeletons, not heads, in a half-hour.
Maybe I should have put the finalized math in the OP, but taking the average of 120 wither skeletons to get three heads, I would need to search for 20 hours to get three heads. Others have also posted similar times in finding skeletons. So when you actually do the math, it is not a stretch at all to think that one could only find 1 head in 10 hours. In fact, that is less than 4 hours off average. I think the math is fairly clear on this one, even if it is just an approximation. About a quarter of all minecraft players on average will experience this searching for the heads. That to me is ridiculous, and I can't see how anyone could think otherwise.
The chance that someone finds three heads in ten minutes is miniscule. I already did some of the calculations for that above. Assuming on average, one finds three wither skeletons per halfhour, then there is about a 1 in 3 chance of finding three in 10 minutes. Couple that with the chances of 3 wither skeletons dropping a head in a row (1 in 640,000), and we come up with a whopping 1 in 1.92 million chance that you will get 3 wither skeleton heads in 10 minutes. I would call that kind of a chance not even worth considering.
I do hope you see this and realize where you went wrong, and consider supporting. In a way, this does add more nether content. Right now, we have a (mostly) beautifully made mob ready-made for the nether, and it is stuck inside a minuscule building. The addition of this idea would put that content in the rest of the nether, increasing searching incentive and challenge in the nether.
@supremecrafters
So even though the idea doesn't contain all you would hope for, do you support/+1? I don't think magma cubes should be moved into fortresses because they have enough content already. Even though the idea doesn't have everything you want, I would still appreciate your support.
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umm makeing it hard to find skulls in the point its not ment to be easy js. but i agree they should add more to the nether its not worth it to find all the obsidian. all there is neatherack soulsand nether brick nether warts and a whole lot of lava. i think they should add some more things.
I honestly don't know why people want more content in the nether. It's not supposed to be a dimension that you would live in normally!
Here is a list of things in the nether:
Netherrack
Glowstone
NetherBrick
Lava
Ghasts (and through that, ghast tears which make valuable potions)
Magma Cubes (their drops also make valuable potions)
Blazes (High xp drops, blaze rods make good fuel, potions, and brewing stands)
Wither Skeletons (wither skulls, withers, nether stars, beacons)
Extremely Fast Travel (1 block in the nether = 8 blocks in the overworld)
Netherwart (essential for potions)
Zombie Pigmen (Want gold? Make a farm)
Now you guys want to cram it full of content like the overworld, but the thing is, the nether is a secondary dimension. NOT the main one.
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XP Guide Regardless of what change you do, no matter how small, someone will complain. - Jens Bergensten If you want me to see your reply, make sure to quote my post in your reply.
i spent 4 hours killing wither skeletons. No heads
So does this mean you want to support the idea?
The thing is, you didn't get that unlucky. An average paltry would have to spend at least that amount of time to get a head, if not more. That's one of the reasons why this idea is so necessary.
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Support.
It took FOREVER to get even one wither skull. After getting 3, I was able to kill the boss easy as pie.
Wasn't worth it, shouldn't have wasted time...
Also: Added this to my mod as a configurable option, defaults to true. (will also affect normal skeletons to spawn outside). The chance to spawn Skellies is actualy 50% of the spawnchance of PigZombies.
Thanks! That means a lot that you think this is good enough to add to your mod. I'd love to hear feedback on players using the option, especially on the spawn rate.
If you can, I'd like a bit of credit though. If the mod is open-source, even my name in the //comments would do.
I'm out of time - I'll edit this post later and add more people.
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Well, then why do you disagree with them Spawning outside of fortresses, too? (we aren't talking about disabling them).
Also: Added this to my mod as a configurable option, defaults to true. (will also affect normal skeletons to spawn outside). The chance to spawn Skellies is actualy 50% of the spawnchance of PigZombies.
Well, like I said it is suppose to be a challenge...
The fact that they spawn only infortresses, and among blazes and things make it a challenge to obtain the skulls.
If they spawned elsewhere in the nether, you would be finding them in random little caves, or other areas where only pigmen would be spawning... it would make hunting for the skulls wayyyy too easy.
It's suppose to be a challenge, your proposal simplifies it.
If you want mobs spawning in more areas of the nether, then I would agree with Blazes spawning more around the nether world.
I support. Mostly because I absolutely DESPISE elements in games that are made 'hard' simply because they are rare, which necessarily results in grinding. Finding diamonds is an element like this, but at least it is well balanced. Mob fighting, including wither skeletons, is incredibly easy in minecraft if you are marginally smart about it, so they can't be hard because they are strong. The only two dangerous enemies are the bosses, simply because they can break blocks without killing themselves. This is not the reason to be dangerous I'd want, if I was a monster...
If Facebook, Myspace, and Twitter were all destroyed, 90% of teens would go insane. If you're one of the 10% that would be laughing at them, copy this into your signature and hope it happens.
I support. Mostly because I absolutely DESPISE elements in games that are made 'hard' simply because they are rare, which necessarily results in grinding. Finding diamonds is an element like this, but at least it is well balanced. Mob fighting, including wither skeletons, is incredibly easy in minecraft if you are marginally smart about it, so they can't be hard because they are strong. The only two dangerous enemies are the bosses, simply because they can break blocks without killing themselves. This is not the reason to be dangerous I'd want, if I was a monster...
Yeah, I agree.
Wither skeletons are actually incredibly easy to kill.
I added links with your Banner to this forums Thread on both, my Wiki and the Forum Thread i started here. Also, I will add this to the Source Code on the next Commit ;-) (also will fix the bug where you can set the config but it doesn't work *g*)
Wither skeletons are actually incredibly easy to kill.
I've been wanting to respond to you for a while, so I'll do it here.
While I recognize the necessity of a challenge in summoning a boss such as the wither, current system is totally flawed in that the challenge is too much and isolating the Wither Skeleton to one small subsection of the Nether creates even more focus on that one aspect when the nether should be about exploring more.
I can't really see how anyone could think that ~20 hours of gameplay straight doing one thing is an appropriate amount for just summoning one boss. Now a challenge is needed, and 20 hours of gameplay is a lot but not inherently bad if the challenge is engaging. However, wandering around a fortress doing the exact same thing for 20 hours is absolutely ridiculous in the extreme. Only obsession or multiplayer collaboration can really summon the wither, unless you do it over a really long period of time. People have suggested just increasing the drop rate, but that doesn't solve the other problem that the Fortress contains almost half of all the resources of the nether, and almost all of the important ones except for glowstone. When I and every other player I have asked go to the nether, it is almost always either to find glowstone or go to a fortress for whatever reason. Zombie pigmen are useless because it is quicker to just mine the gold, netherack really only takes one trip to have an unlimited amount, and Ghasts are useless except for ghast tears, which only create potions of regeneration. Putting Wither Skeletons outside of fortresses would give a player more reason to wander about the nether, and finally put a commonly spawning hostile mob in the nether, something the nether needs quite a bit, because right now it is a really easy place.
I hope I've adequately responded to your concerns and that you will consider supporting.
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I cannot support this due to the fact that i have a fortress in the nether and this would spawn these creatures inside my home without any way to block them.
i am all in favor of moving skeletons out of fortresses but i cannot support this untill there are spawn controlls put in place to stop them from spawning on top of non nether blocks eg nether mobs will no longer spawn on overworld blocks for example a stone fortress will be blacklisted but a nether brick building will be fair game.
people who live in the nether already have an insanley difficult time even with a large stone fortress pigmen abound and even the ocasional ghast can spawn crammed into a room where they could not have possible entered. i get the fact that the nether is not supposed to be safe but in the overworld you can place torches to keep spawns out however in the nether you do not have that luxury and i dont understand how it is even possible for a mob to appear randomly inside a solid stone fortress that is sealed with iron bar windows and iron doors.
I cannot support this due to the fact that i have a fortress in the nether and this would spawn these creatures inside my home without any way to block them.
i am all in favor of moving skeletons out of fortresses but i cannot support this untill there are spawn controlls put in place to stop them from spawning on top of non nether blocks eg nether mobs will no longer spawn on overworld blocks for example a stone fortress will be blacklisted but a nether brick building will be fair game.
people who live in the nether already have an insanley difficult time even with a large stone fortress pigmen abound and even the ocasional ghast can spawn crammed into a room where they could not have possible entered. i get the fact that the nether is not supposed to be safe but in the overworld you can place torches to keep spawns out however in the nether you do not have that luxury and i dont understand how it is even possible for a mob to appear randomly inside a solid stone fortress that is sealed with iron bar windows and iron doors.
So by this post, I'm assuming you forgot that you already posted something similar on this very thread (here), or you didn't read my response? Your name is in the FAQ, for crying out loud. There was an entire poll on this topic devoted to the concerns you brought up for about 2-3 weeks. Sorry for the confusion, but I'm getting some major deja vu here.
I suggest you read the 3rd FAQ question. I wouldn't mind a player-placed block spawn limitation, either solution is good. The bulk of this idea is getting them out into the nether, however, I recognize the necessity of somehow stopping them from spawning in bases. My solution for it is addressed in the FAQ. Either way it is implemented, Wither Skeletons won't be spawning in your base.
I hope you will consider supporting, because your name is already on the supporters list. You said last time that you wouldn't support until something was added to stop Wither Skeletons spawning in your base, so after I made the poll, got a solution, and added it to the FAQ I added your name to the supporters list. I will take it off if you want, but I hope you will keep your support.
As MugaSofer said earlier, does anyone looking at this have the ability to mod it, or have a suggestion as to where I could get someone to make a mod?
That would solve a lot of problems on people complaining about balance, because even with this addition it would still take at least 2-3 hours.
@NyrrocKitten:
I'm not really going to get into the addition of new features into the nether (though I would like some) because that isn't what this idea is about. I think you may have misinterpreted something in my OP. I found 3 wither skeletons, not heads, in a half-hour.
Maybe I should have put the finalized math in the OP, but taking the average of 120 wither skeletons to get three heads, I would need to search for 20 hours to get three heads. Others have also posted similar times in finding skeletons. So when you actually do the math, it is not a stretch at all to think that one could only find 1 head in 10 hours. In fact, that is less than 4 hours off average. I think the math is fairly clear on this one, even if it is just an approximation. About a quarter of all minecraft players on average will experience this searching for the heads. That to me is ridiculous, and I can't see how anyone could think otherwise.
The chance that someone finds three heads in ten minutes is miniscule. I already did some of the calculations for that above. Assuming on average, one finds three wither skeletons per halfhour, then there is about a 1 in 3 chance of finding three in 10 minutes. Couple that with the chances of 3 wither skeletons dropping a head in a row (1 in 640,000), and we come up with a whopping 1 in 1.92 million chance that you will get 3 wither skeleton heads in 10 minutes. I would call that kind of a chance not even worth considering.
I do hope you see this and realize where you went wrong, and consider supporting. In a way, this does add more nether content. Right now, we have a (mostly) beautifully made mob ready-made for the nether, and it is stuck inside a minuscule building. The addition of this idea would put that content in the rest of the nether, increasing searching incentive and challenge in the nether.
@supremecrafters
So even though the idea doesn't contain all you would hope for, do you support/+1? I don't think magma cubes should be moved into fortresses because they have enough content already. Even though the idea doesn't have everything you want, I would still appreciate your support.
If you want to see a great idea for Minecraft, click the banner! Over 400 supporters and counting!
I honestly don't know why people want more content in the nether. It's not supposed to be a dimension that you would live in normally!
Here is a list of things in the nether:
Netherrack
Glowstone
NetherBrick
Lava
Ghasts (and through that, ghast tears which make valuable potions)
Magma Cubes (their drops also make valuable potions)
Blazes (High xp drops, blaze rods make good fuel, potions, and brewing stands)
Wither Skeletons (wither skulls, withers, nether stars, beacons)
Extremely Fast Travel (1 block in the nether = 8 blocks in the overworld)
Netherwart (essential for potions)
Zombie Pigmen (Want gold? Make a farm)
Now you guys want to cram it full of content like the overworld, but the thing is, the nether is a secondary dimension. NOT the main one.
Regardless of what change you do, no matter how small, someone will complain. - Jens Bergensten
If you want me to see your reply, make sure to quote my post in your reply.
So does this mean you want to support the idea?
The thing is, you didn't get that unlucky. An average paltry would have to spend at least that amount of time to get a head, if not more. That's one of the reasons why this idea is so necessary.
If you want to see a great idea for Minecraft, click the banner! Over 400 supporters and counting!
It took FOREVER to get even one wither skull. After getting 3, I was able to kill the boss easy as pie.
Wasn't worth it, shouldn't have wasted time...
It's suppose to be a huge challenge.
http://www.youtube.com/dozacraft
Connect all of the fortress area in one big flat pad of netherbrick.
This is like the absolute sloppy last resort but it works.
http://www.youtube.com/dozacraft
@Rinnsal:
Thanks! That means a lot that you think this is good enough to add to your mod. I'd love to hear feedback on players using the option, especially on the spawn rate.
If you can, I'd like a bit of credit though. If the mod is open-source, even my name in the //comments would do.
I'm out of time - I'll edit this post later and add more people.
If you want to see a great idea for Minecraft, click the banner! Over 400 supporters and counting!
Well, like I said it is suppose to be a challenge...
The fact that they spawn only infortresses, and among blazes and things make it a challenge to obtain the skulls.
If they spawned elsewhere in the nether, you would be finding them in random little caves, or other areas where only pigmen would be spawning... it would make hunting for the skulls wayyyy too easy.
It's suppose to be a challenge, your proposal simplifies it.
If you want mobs spawning in more areas of the nether, then I would agree with Blazes spawning more around the nether world.
http://www.youtube.com/dozacraft
Yeah, I agree.
Wither skeletons are actually incredibly easy to kill.
http://www.youtube.com/dozacraft
Thanks a bunch! I really appreciate it.
I've been wanting to respond to you for a while, so I'll do it here.
While I recognize the necessity of a challenge in summoning a boss such as the wither, current system is totally flawed in that the challenge is too much and isolating the Wither Skeleton to one small subsection of the Nether creates even more focus on that one aspect when the nether should be about exploring more.
I can't really see how anyone could think that ~20 hours of gameplay straight doing one thing is an appropriate amount for just summoning one boss. Now a challenge is needed, and 20 hours of gameplay is a lot but not inherently bad if the challenge is engaging. However, wandering around a fortress doing the exact same thing for 20 hours is absolutely ridiculous in the extreme. Only obsession or multiplayer collaboration can really summon the wither, unless you do it over a really long period of time. People have suggested just increasing the drop rate, but that doesn't solve the other problem that the Fortress contains almost half of all the resources of the nether, and almost all of the important ones except for glowstone. When I and every other player I have asked go to the nether, it is almost always either to find glowstone or go to a fortress for whatever reason. Zombie pigmen are useless because it is quicker to just mine the gold, netherack really only takes one trip to have an unlimited amount, and Ghasts are useless except for ghast tears, which only create potions of regeneration. Putting Wither Skeletons outside of fortresses would give a player more reason to wander about the nether, and finally put a commonly spawning hostile mob in the nether, something the nether needs quite a bit, because right now it is a really easy place.
I hope I've adequately responded to your concerns and that you will consider supporting.
If you want to see a great idea for Minecraft, click the banner! Over 400 supporters and counting!
i am all in favor of moving skeletons out of fortresses but i cannot support this untill there are spawn controlls put in place to stop them from spawning on top of non nether blocks eg nether mobs will no longer spawn on overworld blocks for example a stone fortress will be blacklisted but a nether brick building will be fair game.
people who live in the nether already have an insanley difficult time even with a large stone fortress pigmen abound and even the ocasional ghast can spawn crammed into a room where they could not have possible entered. i get the fact that the nether is not supposed to be safe but in the overworld you can place torches to keep spawns out however in the nether you do not have that luxury and i dont understand how it is even possible for a mob to appear randomly inside a solid stone fortress that is sealed with iron bar windows and iron doors.
you can see my rant regarding broken nether spawns here
http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1562736-nether-spawning-mechanics-must-die/#entry19121087
So by this post, I'm assuming you forgot that you already posted something similar on this very thread (here), or you didn't read my response? Your name is in the FAQ, for crying out loud. There was an entire poll on this topic devoted to the concerns you brought up for about 2-3 weeks. Sorry for the confusion, but I'm getting some major deja vu here.
I suggest you read the 3rd FAQ question. I wouldn't mind a player-placed block spawn limitation, either solution is good. The bulk of this idea is getting them out into the nether, however, I recognize the necessity of somehow stopping them from spawning in bases. My solution for it is addressed in the FAQ. Either way it is implemented, Wither Skeletons won't be spawning in your base.
I hope you will consider supporting, because your name is already on the supporters list. You said last time that you wouldn't support until something was added to stop Wither Skeletons spawning in your base, so after I made the poll, got a solution, and added it to the FAQ I added your name to the supporters list. I will take it off if you want, but I hope you will keep your support.
If you want to see a great idea for Minecraft, click the banner! Over 400 supporters and counting!