I'd like to add that If anything I'd rather see us with slightly smaller maps, with increased entity and passive mob counts, cause as it stand right now the limits to these two areas are more frustrating the getting a larger map.
The thing which will become out-dated to the PC in a year? Fat chance, but I can see bigger worlds for sure but not as big as what 66500x66500 worlds? Or maybe they're bigger.
IDK
Just saying no matter how hard they try they cannot make something as beast as a PC on a console, GUARENTEED
no matter how hard they try they cannot make something as beast as a PC on a console, GUARENTEED
You have several people with programming background stating that it IS possible on next gen consoles, and further, go into much detail as to 'how' and 'why' it is possible. These next gen consoles are currently MORE than twice as powerful than the minimum system requirements to run Minecraft in its current version, and with less applications and OS overhead running in the background, and running on fully compiled executable instead of using psuedo-compiled interpreted Java virtual machine code.
Since you can make this "Guarantee"... why don't you explain, exactly WHY it can't be done. We aren't comparing consoles to where PC's may or may not be in a year, we are comparing them to the system requirements for Minecraft as it currently stands now... which can easily run on computers that are well more than 5 years old as it is.
Game Save file size isn't much of an argument any more, I have a 120 GB hard drive on my 360, even if my MC file size was the typical 60 MB PC version file size... it would take over 100 saved games just to use up 1 GB of space. I expect Next Gen consoles to have as much or more in moving forward for storage space.
Can people please remember one thing. Those seemingly "infinite" worlds you hear about on the PC version are really only in single player. They can reach 30,000,000 x 30,000,000 blocks if you have enough memory to hold the save file. However, even the largest multiplayer servers have generation limits that are nowhere near what single player can do. The largest server I played on, which regularly had around 200 people on it was only like 15,000 x 15,000 or maybe 20,000 x 20,000 blocks. That was beyond enough for 200 people.
All I would want on next gen consoles is 5,000 x 5,000 or above for world size. Even if it stays 8 players.
Can people please remember one thing. Those seemingly "infinite" worlds you hear about on the PC version are really only in single player. They can reach 30,000,000 x 30,000,000 blocks if you have enough memory to hold the save file. However, even the largest multiplayer servers have generation limits that are nowhere near what single player can do. The largest server I played on, which regularly had around 200 people on it was only like 15,000 x 15,000 or maybe 20,000 x 20,000 blocks. That was beyond enough for 200 people.
All I would want on next gen consoles is 5,000 x 5,000 or above for world size. Even if it stays 8 players.
Well... if they don't at least do paging at the current XB360 map level, and continue to try to hold the entire map in memory at once for the whole world... a 5,000 x 5,000 map would require more than 33 times the amount of RAM that is currently used to run MCX360's 864x864 map.
4J will very likely need to look at not loading the entire map into RAM at once for Next Gen consoles to get a map any bigger than 5K x 5K.
But since the next Gen Consoles should be able to hold up to 16 XB360 maps simultaneously without issues, Paging should be a practical solution option for Online Multiplayer and for Split Screen Play as well.
Game Save file size isn't much of an argument any more, I have a 120 GB hard drive on my 360, even if my MC file size was the typical 60 MB PC version file size... it would take over 100 saved games just to use up 1 GB of space. I expect Next Gen consoles to have as much or more in moving forward for storage space.
It's never really been an argument... it's just another factor that 4J probably considered when they made their decision on how to handle chunk loading and unloading. A significant number of Xboxes were sold without large hard drives and many people have accumulated many different game save files over many years that they do not necessarily want to discard; so keeping game save files as small as possible is something they like to do. It's not as big a consideration for Mojang with the PC since people already tend to add storage space to their PCs as more gets demanded.
I personally don't think even resorting to pagination is necessary. A world 16X the current world size should be more than adequate for anyone... but then again, I'm one who actually prefers the little worlds were have now on the Xbox 360. That way, I can focus each little world on a theme... and have a hope of completing that theme... i.e. finishing a world project. I also prefer to start new projects on a clean slate. Infinity for me represents thoughts like... no end in sight and ultimately "infinitely boring." Also, when playing survival, I tend to think of each world as a different round of the game. I try to play in one world with one group of people and another world with another group of people... rather than cycling different groups of people continually through one world. That way, what is accomplished is a world is unique to that round of play and relatively skill and progress amongst the consistent group of players who are involved in that world is accurately measureable. That is, compartmentalizing in this way in small worlds ehances the competitive factors of the game itself.
Having different people bop in and out at different points in a bunch of linked files would possibly present a whole set of different continuity problems regarding the carrying over of inventories and in possible shifts between creative mode and survival mode and in the possible sporadic use of host privileges while circumventing the leaderboard deactivation, etc. Yes, some of these are probably controllable with even more "rules" programmed into the pagination function... but I remain unconvinced that any benefits would outweigh the hassles.
I think the primary reason behind people wanting larger worlds more or less is the ability to generate 'new' features as we get TU's, however there logic is somewhat flawed as the 360 generates all chunks at the time of the map creation, and thus new features would still require a new map.
I kinda agree with UpUp_Away95, in fact as I already stated I'd rather see slightly smaller maps, with higher mob and entity caps. The caps as they are now are they major killer for me wanting to play the 360 version. I personally see no reason to create any type of passive mob farms, as despawning rules are somewhat severly broken and work only half the time. I've seen cows/pigs despawn directly in front of my eyes when they could move less then 5 blocks in any direction. I'm at a loss why we console users have a unique set of spawning/despawning rules for passive mobs to start with. Furthermore I have seen prior to the most recent TU where villager caps were introduced the the 360 was quite capable of handling several hundred villagers without too much lag, and when the cap was introduced it was at 50! Hardly enough to do anything with. Maybe when trading comes into play and people have to break their iron golem farms to establish trade halls and start yelling at 4j those limits might be raised.
Anyhow apologies for getting off topic, just wanted to reinforce that i'd rather see slightly smaller maps and true passive mob spawns/limits as well as entity counts increased.
I think the primary reason behind people wanting larger worlds more or less is the ability to generate 'new' features as we get TU's, however there logic is somewhat flawed as the 360 generates all chunks at the time of the map creation, and thus new features would still require a new map.
I kinda agree with UpUp_Away95, in fact as I already stated I'd rather see slightly smaller maps, with higher mob and entity caps. The caps as they are now are they major killer for me wanting to play the 360 version. I personally see no reason to create any type of passive mob farms, as despawning rules are somewhat severly broken and work only half the time. I've seen cows/pigs despawn directly in front of my eyes when they could move less then 5 blocks in any direction. I'm at a loss why we console users have a unique set of spawning/despawning rules for passive mobs to start with. Furthermore I have seen prior to the most recent TU where villager caps were introduced the the 360 was quite capable of handling several hundred villagers without too much lag, and when the cap was introduced it was at 50! Hardly enough to do anything with. Maybe when trading comes into play and people have to break their iron golem farms to establish trade halls and start yelling at 4j those limits might be raised.
Anyhow apologies for getting off topic, just wanted to reinforce that i'd rather see slightly smaller maps and true passive mob spawns/limits as well as entity counts increased.
I agree that the current mob spawn limits and various other entity limits need to be significantly increased and that this is more important than overall world size as long as the world size is adequate... and a world 16X as big as the current 360 world would be more than adequate, IMO. I don't really see how the seemingly infinite world generation solves the issues related to new biomes being added to the game. However, the Xbox does not generate the entire world terrain at once. It still generates as you explore it; but the problem is that with less world to explore, most maps become fully explored before the new biomes get added. On the PC, these new biomes still generate only on the unexplored fringes of the world. So, as the world gets more and more explored, the new biomes are ever more distant from the "core" areas developed by the player. IMO, they might as well then generate on a new map where I can start a theme using them with a clean slate. With a larger world (even though it will be not as large as the PC one), there should be more unexplored areas available when biomes are added and this should become less of an issue for most. The other even bigger issue with new biomes being added is weather shift... and infinite world generation does not solve that one at all.
On the Xbox, the attitude about new biomes is also compounded by the fact that creative mode deactivates the leaderboards and achievements. I think more people would be willing to just grab a few of the new blocks in creative mode if this did not carry this penalty with it. However, the reason for the penalty existing is also a valid consideration (that is, I'm not saying whether it's right or wrong... I'm just saying it has had an impact on how people on the Xbox think about using creative mode a little differently than people on the PC). The problem of getting new blocks could be resolved if an update triggered a bonus chest (without penalty) in older worlds that contained the new blocks.
I don't really care about leader boards... but I still really don't like jumping in creative mode for ANY reason on my survival maps (it still feels like cheating, and sort of ruins the experience for me if I have to do that just to add content). I understand the want to keep the world limited in size, and 16x the current map size would make me content (If I were moving to XB1 or some other next gen console). Plus, the newer consoles would be able to handle a much larger spawn limit a the same time (estimate up to 16x as much as is currently on the XB360...assuming all aspects of the game expand equally to make full use of the 16x RAM).
I can also see the desire for much larger and much smaller worlds as well, but IF the entire map is loaded upon world gen for a 16x map size on a next gen console, then you run the problem of unexplored chunks being set upon world gen, and not flexible until explored unless some other convention is used to update unexplored chunks to the new TU upon map load... which is possible, if the game tracked that info.
Addendum...
As far as paging goes... The world could be divided up in zones of 265 x 256 block footprints (or 16 x 16 chunks). As the game loads, it loads the zone you are in, plus the 8 zones around you, and hold zones in memory until you are more than 2 zones away (on straights or diagonals / there would never be more than 16 zones loaded at any time (or one full MCX360 map) for each player in the game. It allows some parts of the world to not be generated until "explored", and would never really hold more than 4 MCX360 size maps in memory at once even with 4 player split screen.
This method allows for a very flexible world size, and only loads/unload zones as a player moves across a 256 block distance the the X or Z directions. (The purpose of not unloading the zone that is 2 zones away, means that if a player finds the border of a load zone, it won't reload if you bounce back and forth across that line without moving a 256 block distance away from it first and then coming back to cross it again).
Heck even the Pocket Edition is going to get worlds as big as the PC in the next update, soo it'll definitely be on xbox one.
The Pocket Edition will have an option that when you're about to create a new world it'll make you select whether you want it limited or infinite (not infinite but like the PC is what I mean).
There you have it! now 4j studios have NOTHING to say anything about it, please make us choose when creating a new world whether we want limited or unlimited worlds, I mean, is that asking too much??
I dont think so, if the world is infinite the game will crash after the limit of the X/Y/Z coords
Anyway 4J are like EA, pay for a texture pack, srsly?
I dont think so, if the world is infinite the game will crash after the limit of the X/Y/Z coords
Anyway 4J are like EA, pay for a texture pack, srsly?
FYI The texture packs cost a buck per pack. Their cheap, and occasionally, a free one comes along, like the Halloween TP. And don't even compare 4J to EA. The TPs on PC are COMMUNITY GENERATED, the TPs on consoles are CREATED BY 4J. People need to seriously stop complaining about the fact that they have to pay for skin packs, texture packs, and Mash-Up Packs. Either deal with it, or don't buy them. It's pretty darn simple.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Link RemovedWIP 128x 64x, SEUS support, Mod support in the pipeline TEKKIT, FTB, the more support the more mods!
Owen Hill, one of minecraft developers, someone asked him on twitter if Xbox One is gonna have worlds like PC, he said "still in development, dude. We'll let you know soon!"
I don't really care about leader boards... but I still really don't like jumping in creative mode for ANY reason on my survival maps (it still feels like cheating, and sort of ruins the experience for me if I have to do that just to add content). I understand the want to keep the world limited in size, and 16x the current map size would make me content (If I were moving to XB1 or some other next gen console). Plus, the newer consoles would be able to handle a much larger spawn limit a the same time (estimate up to 16x as much as is currently on the XB360...assuming all aspects of the game expand equally to make full use of the 16x RAM).
I can also see the desire for much larger and much smaller worlds as well, but IF the entire map is loaded upon world gen for a 16x map size on a next gen console, then you run the problem of unexplored chunks being set upon world gen, and not flexible until explored unless some other convention is used to update unexplored chunks to the new TU upon map load... which is possible, if the game tracked that info.
Addendum...
As far as paging goes... The world could be divided up in zones of 265 x 256 block footprints (or 16 x 16 chunks). As the game loads, it loads the zone you are in, plus the 8 zones around you, and hold zones in memory until you are more than 2 zones away (on straights or diagonals / there would never be more than 16 zones loaded at any time (or one full MCX360 map) for each player in the game. It allows some parts of the world to not be generated until "explored", and would never really hold more than 4 MCX360 size maps in memory at once even with 4 player split screen.
This method allows for a very flexible world size, and only loads/unload zones as a player moves across a 256 block distance the the X or Z directions. (The purpose of not unloading the zone that is 2 zones away, means that if a player finds the border of a load zone, it won't reload if you bounce back and forth across that line without moving a 256 block distance away from it first and then coming back to cross it again).
There is a different between saying the Xbox 360 world stays loaded (which it does) and saying it generates all at once (which it doesn't). It generates as you first explore it, so if you haven't explored an area of the map at all and an update occurs and then you explore it, the terrain in that area of the map will be in accordance with the seed after the update not before. This method of terrain generation is the same as on the PC.
Similarly, if you've just opened a map, only the area near you are loaded are you. On the Xbox, as you walk around, more areas get loaded and the already loaded areas don't unload... so, eventually, if you walk around the whole area of the map, the whole area of the map eventually gets loaded in that session; and any loaded areas of the map are only unloaded once you save and close the map. On the PC, as you walk around, the area that is loaded around you changes, but it stays the same size as chunks you've left farther behind are unloaded and chunks you're moving closer to are loaded instead. This process has nothing to do with terrain generation.
There is a different between saying the Xbox 360 world stays loaded (which it does) and saying it generates all at once (which it doesn't). It generates as you first explore it, so if you haven't explored an area of the map at all and an update occurs and then you explore it, the terrain in that area of the map will be in accordance with the seed after the update not before. This method of terrain generation is the same as on the PC.
Similarly, if you've just opened a map, only the area near you are loaded are you. On the Xbox, as you walk around, more areas get loaded and the already loaded areas don't unload... so, eventually, if you walk around the whole area of the map, the whole area of the map eventually gets loaded in that session; and any loaded areas of the map are only unloaded once you save and close the map. On the PC, as you walk around, the area that is loaded around you changes, but it stays the same size as chunks you've left farther behind are unloaded and chunks you're moving closer to are loaded instead. This process has nothing to do with terrain generation.
Are you sure that that is how the terrain generation is done on the XB360? I doubt it, because if you had to generate the terrain 'as it was explored' then you are already 95% of the way to paging your chunks to allow for larger worlds anyway. The far simpler method would be to generate terrain when the map is created and load the whole map at that time. I know the game is 'capable of tracking what has been explored and what hasn't (similar to a back end communal/multiplayer map that updates by player movement, and not by holding any particular item), but again, that is taking a more complex route to solve a simpler problem.
If the whole world is 'loaded' when the game is opened, then the who'e terrain is likely generated by that time as well.
Now I haven't tested it out... I suppose I could get a disk copy of MC TU9, unload my current game, load a new game with a known jungle biome seed, intentionally not explore the map other than where I spawned, quit the game, update it, go back in and explore around and see if I can find any Jungle Biome....
But since I bought my copy of MC online through my XBLA, I don't really feel the need to go and purchase a copy of MC to test that out.
Here is my question, has anyone actually tested it out on the XB360 to verify if unexplored areas are affected by a Biome Change due to a TU change or not (new blocks/plants)? (other than snow/weather/ocelot spawning/etc.)
This is actually hard to say. If you think about it, yes they have the resources at their disposal. Hell, even the 360 had enough at their disposal. This might push them closer to making them larger. There is another thing that must be kept in mind. Someone is playing minecraft on their Xbox one, and they spend like forever exploring the world, then look at the hard drive contents and be like "Hey why do I have a 10gb minecraft world?" Yes anyone that is on this forum knows that they explored way to frigging much, but they might be too stupid to know that the more you explore the larger the file becomes. I think it is a space issue more than it is anything else. It is a feature we all want, but who knows? For those that did not know, the 360 does have enough ram to play minecraft on the PC because it requires 256mb of ram, and the 360 has about that left over after the operating system.
CORRECTION!!!The people that said that Xbox One will have infinite worlds is not true, i have Xbox One, the Minecraft Xbox One Edition worlds will be bigger, and even bigger than other console and it will have all the Features and Items that the PC version has.Unfortunatly, the Xbox 360 wont have Command blocks, wire traps, Aether portals etc. Just for NEXT GEN CONSOLES, OH YEAAA!!!So the people who doesent have Xbox ONE or PS4, i suggest you start saving money to buy a NEXT GEN CONSOLE, i suggest the Xbox ONE cause the PS4 doesent got to many new features and some people annoyd that, in Ebay there are lots of almost not used PS4s for sell, the only games that are not available for xbox are 2, one that doesent look too NEXT GEN=Knack, and the third part of infamous=Infamous second son.More games coming for Xbox ONE : Dying Light, Project Spark (People say its going to be the NEXT GEN Minecraft), Titanfall(New robots created for the game, my favorite... THE STRIDER!, Max:The curse of the brotherhood(Looks like a new part of Max and the Magic Marker), Crimson Dragon, Mirrors Edge 2, Halo 5, Destiny and of course Minecraft
Are you sure that that is how the terrain generation is done on the XB360? I doubt it, because if you had to generate the terrain 'as it was explored' then you are already 95% of the way to paging your chunks to allow for larger worlds anyway. The far simpler method would be to generate terrain when the map is created and load the whole map at that time. I know the game is 'capable of tracking what has been explored and what hasn't (similar to a back end communal/multiplayer map that updates by player movement, and not by holding any particular item), but again, that is taking a more complex route to solve a simpler problem.
If the whole world is 'loaded' when the game is opened, then the who'e terrain is likely generated by that time as well.
Now I haven't tested it out... I suppose I could get a disk copy of MC TU9, unload my current game, load a new game with a known jungle biome seed, intentionally not explore the map other than where I spawned, quit the game, update it, go back in and explore around and see if I can find any Jungle Biome....
But since I bought my copy of MC online through my XBLA, I don't really feel the need to go and purchase a copy of MC to test that out.
Here is my question, has anyone actually tested it out on the XB360 to verify if unexplored areas are affected by a Biome Change due to a TU change or not (new blocks/plants)? (other than snow/weather/ocelot spawning/etc.)
Yes, I'm sure that on the Xbox 360 overworld terrain does not generate until the area is first explored by a player. I tested it the first round of biome additions to the game. Just prior to that update I created two maps of the same seed string (actually 3 pairs of maps in order to make sure). I fully explored the one map (i.e. walked the entire surface of it) and only partially explored the second map. After the update came out, I finished exploring the second map. The terrain that generated in the unexplored portions of the partially explored map was different than the fully explored map. This would not have been the case if the entire terrain of the map was generated automatically when the map was first created. Then, I created a new map using the same seed after the update. The terrain in the unexplored portions of the map created before the update matched the terrain created in the same seed after the update. The results were pretty conclusive, IMO. Terrain generates as a map is first explored by a player.
Similarly, when you first open an already created map, the world loads as you walk over it. So, if you stay in a limited area during a play session, the entire map does not load. However, as you walk into different areas of the map, those areas load... and they stay loaded on the Xbox until you close the map entirely. On the PC, chunks unload as you walk away from them. That's the difference.
The Xbox one will use the same damn code base that the other consoles are using, meaning no extra features overtop of the other consoles. Yes it will probably run alot more smoothly without hiccups and what not.
Being that its going to use the same code base means that they are not about to add a totally different way of handling chunks, especially when it comes to loading/unloading of chunks. Those that say different are more or less blowing chunks out thier butts. (get it, lol).
UpUp_Away95, I hate to say it but you are wrong in respects to chunk generation, I can't remember where I read that the 360 generates terrain for both the neither/overworld/end at the time of map creation. I maybe mistaken but I'm almost sure it was confirmed by 4J as well.
There are many advantages to having the entire map loaded, but at the same rate we will never get to use some of the features that the PC can take advantage of such as shipping entities to unloaded chunks for pickup later. I have heard that the neither is unloaded if no players are present within, so its possible that we might take advantage of this by shipping items into the neither for pickup later, but knowing 4J.....I'm a bit hesitant to believe that they will allow this to occur.
In essence I've come to realize that anything that might cause issues on the PC will probably not make it to the 360, or be so seriously nerfed that it won't be of any real use on the console. For example storing entities/mobs in the neither for processing later. Its already not doable coming from the neither to the over world since the over world remains loaded at all times. But this is 360 edition I guess and we will have to live with 4J's rules and limits.
Similarly, when you first open an already created map, the world loads as you walk over it. So, if you stay in a limited area during a play session, the entire map does not load. However, as you walk into different areas of the map, those areas load... and they stay loaded on the Xbox until you close the map entirely. On the PC, chunks unload as you walk away from them. That's the difference.
Curious, I guess that begs the question... If the game doesn't load all chunks when the game opens, then why didn't 4J opt to unload chunks as a player moved away from them? As I said above, that puts them about 95% of the way toward paging to allow for much larger worlds as it is.
UpUp_Away95, I hate to say it but you are wrong in respects to chunk generation, I can't remember where I read that the 360 generates terrain for both the neither/overworld/end at the time of map creation. I maybe mistaken but I'm almost sure it was confirmed by 4J as well.
Hrmmm... One for, one against... however, UpUp_Away95 did say he intentionally tested this...
That thing?
The thing which will become out-dated to the PC in a year? Fat chance, but I can see bigger worlds for sure but not as big as what 66500x66500 worlds? Or maybe they're bigger.
IDK
Just saying no matter how hard they try they cannot make something as beast as a PC on a console, GUARENTEED
You have several people with programming background stating that it IS possible on next gen consoles, and further, go into much detail as to 'how' and 'why' it is possible. These next gen consoles are currently MORE than twice as powerful than the minimum system requirements to run Minecraft in its current version, and with less applications and OS overhead running in the background, and running on fully compiled executable instead of using psuedo-compiled interpreted Java virtual machine code.
Since you can make this "Guarantee"... why don't you explain, exactly WHY it can't be done. We aren't comparing consoles to where PC's may or may not be in a year, we are comparing them to the system requirements for Minecraft as it currently stands now... which can easily run on computers that are well more than 5 years old as it is.
Game Save file size isn't much of an argument any more, I have a 120 GB hard drive on my 360, even if my MC file size was the typical 60 MB PC version file size... it would take over 100 saved games just to use up 1 GB of space. I expect Next Gen consoles to have as much or more in moving forward for storage space.
All I would want on next gen consoles is 5,000 x 5,000 or above for world size. Even if it stays 8 players.
Well... if they don't at least do paging at the current XB360 map level, and continue to try to hold the entire map in memory at once for the whole world... a 5,000 x 5,000 map would require more than 33 times the amount of RAM that is currently used to run MCX360's 864x864 map.
4J will very likely need to look at not loading the entire map into RAM at once for Next Gen consoles to get a map any bigger than 5K x 5K.
But since the next Gen Consoles should be able to hold up to 16 XB360 maps simultaneously without issues, Paging should be a practical solution option for Online Multiplayer and for Split Screen Play as well.
It's never really been an argument... it's just another factor that 4J probably considered when they made their decision on how to handle chunk loading and unloading. A significant number of Xboxes were sold without large hard drives and many people have accumulated many different game save files over many years that they do not necessarily want to discard; so keeping game save files as small as possible is something they like to do. It's not as big a consideration for Mojang with the PC since people already tend to add storage space to their PCs as more gets demanded.
I personally don't think even resorting to pagination is necessary. A world 16X the current world size should be more than adequate for anyone... but then again, I'm one who actually prefers the little worlds were have now on the Xbox 360. That way, I can focus each little world on a theme... and have a hope of completing that theme... i.e. finishing a world project. I also prefer to start new projects on a clean slate. Infinity for me represents thoughts like... no end in sight and ultimately "infinitely boring." Also, when playing survival, I tend to think of each world as a different round of the game. I try to play in one world with one group of people and another world with another group of people... rather than cycling different groups of people continually through one world. That way, what is accomplished is a world is unique to that round of play and relatively skill and progress amongst the consistent group of players who are involved in that world is accurately measureable. That is, compartmentalizing in this way in small worlds ehances the competitive factors of the game itself.
Having different people bop in and out at different points in a bunch of linked files would possibly present a whole set of different continuity problems regarding the carrying over of inventories and in possible shifts between creative mode and survival mode and in the possible sporadic use of host privileges while circumventing the leaderboard deactivation, etc. Yes, some of these are probably controllable with even more "rules" programmed into the pagination function... but I remain unconvinced that any benefits would outweigh the hassles.
I kinda agree with UpUp_Away95, in fact as I already stated I'd rather see slightly smaller maps, with higher mob and entity caps. The caps as they are now are they major killer for me wanting to play the 360 version. I personally see no reason to create any type of passive mob farms, as despawning rules are somewhat severly broken and work only half the time. I've seen cows/pigs despawn directly in front of my eyes when they could move less then 5 blocks in any direction. I'm at a loss why we console users have a unique set of spawning/despawning rules for passive mobs to start with. Furthermore I have seen prior to the most recent TU where villager caps were introduced the the 360 was quite capable of handling several hundred villagers without too much lag, and when the cap was introduced it was at 50! Hardly enough to do anything with. Maybe when trading comes into play and people have to break their iron golem farms to establish trade halls and start yelling at 4j those limits might be raised.
Anyhow apologies for getting off topic, just wanted to reinforce that i'd rather see slightly smaller maps and true passive mob spawns/limits as well as entity counts increased.
I agree that the current mob spawn limits and various other entity limits need to be significantly increased and that this is more important than overall world size as long as the world size is adequate... and a world 16X as big as the current 360 world would be more than adequate, IMO. I don't really see how the seemingly infinite world generation solves the issues related to new biomes being added to the game. However, the Xbox does not generate the entire world terrain at once. It still generates as you explore it; but the problem is that with less world to explore, most maps become fully explored before the new biomes get added. On the PC, these new biomes still generate only on the unexplored fringes of the world. So, as the world gets more and more explored, the new biomes are ever more distant from the "core" areas developed by the player. IMO, they might as well then generate on a new map where I can start a theme using them with a clean slate. With a larger world (even though it will be not as large as the PC one), there should be more unexplored areas available when biomes are added and this should become less of an issue for most. The other even bigger issue with new biomes being added is weather shift... and infinite world generation does not solve that one at all.
On the Xbox, the attitude about new biomes is also compounded by the fact that creative mode deactivates the leaderboards and achievements. I think more people would be willing to just grab a few of the new blocks in creative mode if this did not carry this penalty with it. However, the reason for the penalty existing is also a valid consideration (that is, I'm not saying whether it's right or wrong... I'm just saying it has had an impact on how people on the Xbox think about using creative mode a little differently than people on the PC). The problem of getting new blocks could be resolved if an update triggered a bonus chest (without penalty) in older worlds that contained the new blocks.
I can also see the desire for much larger and much smaller worlds as well, but IF the entire map is loaded upon world gen for a 16x map size on a next gen console, then you run the problem of unexplored chunks being set upon world gen, and not flexible until explored unless some other convention is used to update unexplored chunks to the new TU upon map load... which is possible, if the game tracked that info.
Addendum...
As far as paging goes... The world could be divided up in zones of 265 x 256 block footprints (or 16 x 16 chunks). As the game loads, it loads the zone you are in, plus the 8 zones around you, and hold zones in memory until you are more than 2 zones away (on straights or diagonals / there would never be more than 16 zones loaded at any time (or one full MCX360 map) for each player in the game. It allows some parts of the world to not be generated until "explored", and would never really hold more than 4 MCX360 size maps in memory at once even with 4 player split screen.
This method allows for a very flexible world size, and only loads/unload zones as a player moves across a 256 block distance the the X or Z directions. (The purpose of not unloading the zone that is 2 zones away, means that if a player finds the border of a load zone, it won't reload if you bounce back and forth across that line without moving a 256 block distance away from it first and then coming back to cross it again).
The Pocket Edition will have an option that when you're about to create a new world it'll make you select whether you want it limited or infinite (not infinite but like the PC is what I mean).
There you have it! now 4j studios have NOTHING to say anything about it, please make us choose when creating a new world whether we want limited or unlimited worlds, I mean, is that asking too much??
Anyway 4J are like EA, pay for a texture pack, srsly?
FYI The texture packs cost a buck per pack. Their cheap, and occasionally, a free one comes along, like the Halloween TP. And don't even compare 4J to EA. The TPs on PC are COMMUNITY GENERATED, the TPs on consoles are CREATED BY 4J. People need to seriously stop complaining about the fact that they have to pay for skin packs, texture packs, and Mash-Up Packs. Either deal with it, or don't buy them. It's pretty darn simple.
Link RemovedWIP 128x 64x, SEUS support, Mod support in the pipeline TEKKIT, FTB, the more support the more mods!
LINK: https://twitter.com/Bopogamel/status/413773509014593536
Soo he didn't say "NO NOO XBone CAN'T HANDLE IT, NO WAY" or something like that, It might gives an indication that it might have it.
There is a different between saying the Xbox 360 world stays loaded (which it does) and saying it generates all at once (which it doesn't). It generates as you first explore it, so if you haven't explored an area of the map at all and an update occurs and then you explore it, the terrain in that area of the map will be in accordance with the seed after the update not before. This method of terrain generation is the same as on the PC.
Similarly, if you've just opened a map, only the area near you are loaded are you. On the Xbox, as you walk around, more areas get loaded and the already loaded areas don't unload... so, eventually, if you walk around the whole area of the map, the whole area of the map eventually gets loaded in that session; and any loaded areas of the map are only unloaded once you save and close the map. On the PC, as you walk around, the area that is loaded around you changes, but it stays the same size as chunks you've left farther behind are unloaded and chunks you're moving closer to are loaded instead. This process has nothing to do with terrain generation.
Are you sure that that is how the terrain generation is done on the XB360? I doubt it, because if you had to generate the terrain 'as it was explored' then you are already 95% of the way to paging your chunks to allow for larger worlds anyway. The far simpler method would be to generate terrain when the map is created and load the whole map at that time. I know the game is 'capable of tracking what has been explored and what hasn't (similar to a back end communal/multiplayer map that updates by player movement, and not by holding any particular item), but again, that is taking a more complex route to solve a simpler problem.
If the whole world is 'loaded' when the game is opened, then the who'e terrain is likely generated by that time as well.
Now I haven't tested it out... I suppose I could get a disk copy of MC TU9, unload my current game, load a new game with a known jungle biome seed, intentionally not explore the map other than where I spawned, quit the game, update it, go back in and explore around and see if I can find any Jungle Biome....
But since I bought my copy of MC online through my XBLA, I don't really feel the need to go and purchase a copy of MC to test that out.
Here is my question, has anyone actually tested it out on the XB360 to verify if unexplored areas are affected by a Biome Change due to a TU change or not (new blocks/plants)? (other than snow/weather/ocelot spawning/etc.)
Yes, I'm sure that on the Xbox 360 overworld terrain does not generate until the area is first explored by a player. I tested it the first round of biome additions to the game. Just prior to that update I created two maps of the same seed string (actually 3 pairs of maps in order to make sure). I fully explored the one map (i.e. walked the entire surface of it) and only partially explored the second map. After the update came out, I finished exploring the second map. The terrain that generated in the unexplored portions of the partially explored map was different than the fully explored map. This would not have been the case if the entire terrain of the map was generated automatically when the map was first created. Then, I created a new map using the same seed after the update. The terrain in the unexplored portions of the map created before the update matched the terrain created in the same seed after the update. The results were pretty conclusive, IMO. Terrain generates as a map is first explored by a player.
Similarly, when you first open an already created map, the world loads as you walk over it. So, if you stay in a limited area during a play session, the entire map does not load. However, as you walk into different areas of the map, those areas load... and they stay loaded on the Xbox until you close the map entirely. On the PC, chunks unload as you walk away from them. That's the difference.
Being that its going to use the same code base means that they are not about to add a totally different way of handling chunks, especially when it comes to loading/unloading of chunks. Those that say different are more or less blowing chunks out thier butts. (get it, lol).
UpUp_Away95, I hate to say it but you are wrong in respects to chunk generation, I can't remember where I read that the 360 generates terrain for both the neither/overworld/end at the time of map creation. I maybe mistaken but I'm almost sure it was confirmed by 4J as well.
There are many advantages to having the entire map loaded, but at the same rate we will never get to use some of the features that the PC can take advantage of such as shipping entities to unloaded chunks for pickup later. I have heard that the neither is unloaded if no players are present within, so its possible that we might take advantage of this by shipping items into the neither for pickup later, but knowing 4J.....I'm a bit hesitant to believe that they will allow this to occur.
In essence I've come to realize that anything that might cause issues on the PC will probably not make it to the 360, or be so seriously nerfed that it won't be of any real use on the console. For example storing entities/mobs in the neither for processing later. Its already not doable coming from the neither to the over world since the over world remains loaded at all times. But this is 360 edition I guess and we will have to live with 4J's rules and limits.
Curious, I guess that begs the question... If the game doesn't load all chunks when the game opens, then why didn't 4J opt to unload chunks as a player moved away from them? As I said above, that puts them about 95% of the way toward paging to allow for much larger worlds as it is.
Hrmmm... One for, one against... however, UpUp_Away95 did say he intentionally tested this...