Poll: The name of that mod should be different from Ships&Boats and Ph
We have agreed with Eagle_Orion, creator of PhysicsCraft, and Shereis, to join forces to make a mod featuring physics from PhysicsCraft and also the rendering and block interaction facilities of Ships&Boats.
There seem to be some issues, as neither of us seems to be understanding what the other is saying.
2.Your response was very surprising, as It appears you are in fact planning on still using blocks, whereas the prior post would suggest differently. A gravity well is what is used by mods such as this and ugocraft to move entities in relation to itself, it's what makes it so that when the ship moves you move with it and don't just slide off, and is difficult to add. Obviously to update a mod past 1.3 forces you to make it SMP. Some these "extras" may also be completely vital to the ship even making sense for some, and it would be nice to have them. It is a shame you have so little time to work on this as it only makes me more frustrated with the fact that I have seemingly endless free time and no ability to productively use it on things like this.
3.Updating this mod (which again would make it SMP in the process) WAS a suggestion. I can't provide the suggestions you're looking for because I don't follow your ideas of balance; I would make every ship cost the blocks that are used to build it, like a real ship.
2. I don't know how you got the idea I didn't want to use blocks, but you couldn't have been more wrong - that is absolutely essential IMHO. Neither the S&B nor Ugocraft source code has any class called a "gravity well", but I haven't reached that point yet anyway. The mod only needs to make sense to myself (I started it because I want SMP customisable ships, and there is no current alternative) - the extras I mentioned are nice, but unnecessary and time consuming.
3. Updating S&B is of course something that has come to mind for anyone reading the title of this thread, including myself. Like I said, I've already dismissed it. If you followed my ideas of balance I wouldn't be interested in the recipes you'd use - they would match my own. I asked BECAUSE they would be different. Being able to make a large sailable ship with just a handful of wood stacks is not an acceptable scenario in my mind, and I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want me to require real world amounts of material: HMS Victory for example, Lord Nelson's 70m flagship, took 6000 trees to build. Cutting down 6000 trees would require much, much, much more time and work than my proposal. I want a compromise in the middle somewhere.
If you have information/data/ideas/proposals to add, that is great, I'd honestly love to see them, even if I disagree. But just telling me what you don't like about my own is fairly pointless without suggesting alternatives.
I'm interested in feedback, or alternatives to the following (Constructive criticism is good. "That sucks" is useless, and will be ignored by me. If my idea is no good - very possible - give your own detailed replacement plan):
- small ships, 8x8x8, possible fairly early, after a couple of hours play. Just a little taste of boating life. Common.
- medium ships, 16^3, require 2x small ships in recipe, and some rarer items, more precious materials. Not uncommon.
- large, 32^3, req. 2x medium + more stuff/rarer stuff. Uncommon.
- huge, 64^3 (perhaps 128^3 ?), req. 2x large, + more/rarer stuff. Rare.
- airship, 40^3, req. 2x huge, plus ender star. Extremely rare.
I think an interesting aspect for this mod would be to separate the size of a ship and its speed to some extent.
The ship block would control the dimensions or block limit of a ship, while a separate movement/engine block would dictate its speed capability. These movement blocks would still be effected by size to an extent.
Say you make a small ship with a level 1 engine. You would go, (arbitrary example numbers) 4 blocks per second. A medium sized ship with a single level 1 engine would go maybe 2 blocks per second. Large would go 1 block per second, and Huge/airship/submarines would get no benefits from a level 1 engine. level 2+ engines work the same way, but have diminished returns on a small ship. A level 2 engine on a medium ship goes 5 blocks/second, while a small only gets 6 or so. Still faster, but not overpoweringly so compared to larger ships.
Larger engines would require smaller ones to craft, similar to your original hull size idea to make the costs increase. You can make it cheaper to craft a larger ship, but without the proper and expensive engine in place, a large or huge ship wouldn't move fast enough to be worth the effort, still controlling their use on servers.
On top of that, since smaller ships always move faster than a larger ship with the same engine piece, separating the two would give players a reason to keep using small ships. Bigger won't always be better when it comes to speed.
Let me know if I wasn't clear on anything, and whether or not you use these ideas, thanks for your work on this mod!
I think an interesting aspect for this mod would be to separate the size of a ship and its speed to some extent.
The ship block would control the dimensions or block limit of a ship, while a separate movement/engine block would dictate its speed capability. These movement blocks would still be effected by size to an extent.
Say you make a small ship with a level 1 engine. You would go, (arbitrary example numbers) 4 blocks per second. A medium sized ship with a single level 1 engine would go maybe 2 blocks per second. Large would go 1 block per second, and Huge/airship/submarines would get no benefits from a level 1 engine. level 2+ engines work the same way, but have diminished returns on a small ship. A level 2 engine on a medium ship goes 5 blocks/second, while a small only gets 6 or so. Still faster, but not overpoweringly so compared to larger ships.
Larger engines would require smaller ones to craft, similar to your original hull size idea to make the costs increase. You can make it cheaper to craft a larger ship, but without the proper and expensive engine in place, a large or huge ship wouldn't move fast enough to be worth the effort, still controlling their use on servers.
On top of that, since smaller ships always move faster than a larger ship with the same engine piece, separating the two would give players a reason to keep using small ships. Bigger won't always be better when it comes to speed.
Let me know if I wasn't clear on anything, and whether or not you use these ideas, thanks for your work on this mod!
Thanks Danson.
I doubt I'll get to engine blocks anytime soon, but I agree that smaller ships should be faster.
If you could make it bukkit compatible, that would be fantastic! We have a boatload (no pun intended!) of ships in our server which we plan on making public at some point. We've always wanted to drive our boats, but have been waiting on a ship mod for what seems like forever. Good luck on your work! Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
2. I don't know how you got the idea I didn't want to use blocks, but you couldn't have been more wrong - that is absolutely essential IMHO. Neither the S&B nor Ugocraft source code has any class called a "gravity well", but I haven't reached that point yet anyway. The mod only needs to make sense to myself (I started it because I want SMP customisable ships, and there is no current alternative) - the extras I mentioned are nice, but unnecessary and time consuming.
3. Updating S&B is of course something that has come to mind for anyone reading the title of this thread, including myself. Like I said, I've already dismissed it. If you followed my ideas of balance I wouldn't be interested in the recipes you'd use - they would match my own. I asked BECAUSE they would be different. Being able to make a large sailable ship with just a handful of wood stacks is not an acceptable scenario in my mind, and I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want me to require real world amounts of material: HMS Victory for example, Lord Nelson's 70m flagship, took 6000 trees to build. Cutting down 6000 trees would require much, much, much more time and work than my proposal. I want a compromise in the middle somewhere.
If you have information/data/ideas/proposals to add, that is great, I'd honestly love to see them, even if I disagree. But just telling me what you don't like about my own is fairly pointless without suggesting alternatives.
What about having an option in the config file? Allowing server owners to force players to use those harder-to-get items or not to. Everyone has an opinion on this, so why not the best of both worlds?
1- For the making of the flotating engine, (thing that make the airships fly) you have to craft 3x3 of feather that gives you something (I dont have a name right now), with that you craft 3x3 of "that" but in the center a diamond, or something rare, then with "that" you put it in the center and surround it with iron, and you get the fly engine. It goes like that:
F- feather
K- feather "thing"
L- the other "Thing" crafted before
D- diamond
I- iron
O- fly engine
F F F K K K I I I
F F F = K K D K = L I L I = O
F F F K K K I I I
Well it´s something confusing maybe, but hope you understand. I think that is not very expensive nor very cheap, so, yeah.
2- I have an idea about the colision between the boat and the Ice blocks, how about a "membrane" that coat the hull that can break ice? I think it would be crafted mostly by Iron and an a uprgade of Diamond.
What about having an option in the config file? Allowing server owners to force players to use those harder-to-get items or not to. Everyone has an opinion on this, so why not the best of both worlds?
That's a good idea, I like it, but it means more work, so is low priority.
Atm if I could see enough recipes from enough people I could choose recipes that most people would think are "not terrible"...
That's a good idea, I like it, but it means more work, so is low priority.
Atm if I could see enough recipes from enough people I could choose recipes that most people would think are "not terrible"...
72 feathers, 1 diamond (block, I think)), and 8 iron (blocks?) for an airship? Ok, I'll take it under advisement...
I thought about icebreaking too - something for later perhaps.
Good choice of recipe here, seriously that's a real good idea, and not that hard to get your hands on if you're playing vanilla Minecraft, could be a little bit trickier if using FTB modpack cause some other recipes use a lot of diamonds and iron (especially if you use Mindcrack pack with Gregtech enabled with the normal mode and not the easy one that most servers use at the moment)
One suggestion that is a real good one is to allow servers to require a specific chosen item, for example a nether star to get any kind of ship, that way the server wouldn't be overloaded with fat kids in diamond armors flying in the air this could cause so much lag I think only the ones that manage to get their hands legitly on the ingredient like a nether star or other rare resources should be allowed to have a ship on SMP, that prove that theses people are trusted and they worked real hard to get their hands on that precious thing and if they are willing to use it to get a ship instead of a beacon, that prove they are awesome enough to have a ship. It could be configured by the server owner and replaced with lets say 15 blocks of diamonds or similar recipe if they wish too...
72 feathers may be a bit excessive. However, it seems like a decent starting point. Maybe have something like this:
F F
F F = K
K
K D K = airship module
K
16 feathers and 1 diamond (not a block) could give you a small airship, say 50-100 blocks total size. Similar to your small boats, it would take 2 of these and a bit of rarer resource for a larger airship piece, continued until they get to the huge size (64^3 or however many blocks)
Or you could have a modified recipe for the airship block, something slightly more expensive that gives you a 50 block ship. Adding another airship block to the same ship would allow it to have a size of 100. Add another, 150, etc. You could make bigger ships more expensive through this, but not punish people for wanting a smaller personal airship and not wanting to waste an expensive nether star on an airship block and only use 100-200 blocks when it can support far more.
16 feathers and 1 diamond (not a block) could give you a small airship, say 50-100 blocks total size.
Hmm, well, I'll definitely take the suggestion on board, but that sounds like about 10 minutes work to me - seems to be well and truly on the easy side...
Hmm, well, I'll definitely take the suggestion on board, but that sounds like about 10 minutes work to me - seems to be well and truly on the easy side...
I think our issue with these recipes is we're not quite sure of your intentions for airships. If you plan to have a size based system like the ships outlined on your earlier post or other ideas, then the feather and diamond seems alright for a small one, requiring 2 of those and some diamond blocks to upgrade to medium and so on. If you're planning to only release the 1 airship block that allows 40x40x40 sizing or XXXX total blocks, then yeah, this is way too easy to get soon, and we will need to post some formulas that make more sense for something of that size.
i have a ton ideas for uses of this mod i just want to see it updated... the the main one is a 75x15x25 air ship its already made i just need the mod to use it. also can whoever updats it modloader compatible... for some reason my computer hates Forge
also i would like to be able to still move around my ship while its still moving.for example the ship will go straight forward (via redstone current or something) while i go check on my porkchops
72 feathers may be a bit excessive. However, it seems like a decent starting point. Maybe have something like this:
Mmm I don´t know, if you have a chicken farm you get the feathers really quick, I mean, make an airship is a big deal, you can go anywere withot fighting mobs or anything, you are free, except for the LAG. When I said Diamond and Iron I mean that, not block, maybe the iron block is fine, but just one diamond for the cheapest fly engine. As always just a suggestion.
I would work on the mod yet i don't currently have the programs or the coding for the mod, and i don't really feel like having to rewrite all the coding for the mod, and it would be useful to have to build the ship like you want to instead of having to collect stuff and get a ship that you may not like, and i don't think it would be as fun if you made it more complicated to get the materials because by the time you got the rare materials you might be bored of it, so i was thinking just use the same coding as the original mod(or the most similar coding) for it. But thats just my opinion of what i could do, or you could use the coding from the mod that Naval Battlezone server uses to move its ships just make it way smoother and have it not move by ping.
Can we get an update as to what step your on Grumdot?
A very early step...
I can convert blocks to entities that look and feel the same as blocks, but a problem getting them to render exactly the same as the deleted block is holding me up here...
Next step will be to join a bunch of blockentities together, and the step after that will be to make them move.
That is the core of the mod (although there is still a huge amount of work to be done beyond that to make it decent) and as soon as that happens I'll start my own thread for it and release it for testing.
I think our issue with these recipes is we're not quite sure of your intentions for airships. If you plan to have a size based system like the ships outlined on your earlier post or other ideas, then the feather and diamond seems alright for a small one, requiring 2 of those and some diamond blocks to upgrade to medium and so on. If you're planning to only release the 1 airship block that allows 40x40x40 sizing or XXXX total blocks, then yeah, this is way too easy to get soon, and we will need to post some formulas that make more sense for something of that size.
"We"? "Our"? What issues?
All I've done is given one possibility, and asked for more. The end result is likely to be a mixture/compromise of all suggested recipes I see.
i have a ton ideas for uses of this mod i just want to see it updated... the the main one is a 75x15x25 air ship its already made i just need the mod to use it. also can whoever updats it modloader compatible... for some reason my computer hates Forge
I can't speak for anyone else but I'm working only with Forge.
The new API due out with 1.5 has been worked on by guys from Forge, so I assume updating to 1.5 will be easier for a Forge mod.
also i would like to be able to still move around my ship while its still moving.for example the ship will go straight forward (via redstone current or something) while i go check on my porkchops
Mmm I don´t know, if you have a chicken farm you get the feathers really quick, I mean, make an airship is a big deal, you can go anywere withot fighting mobs or anything, you are free, except for the LAG. When I said Diamond and Iron I mean that, not block, maybe the iron block is fine, but just one diamond for the cheapest fly engine. As always just a suggestion.
2. I don't know how you got the idea I didn't want to use blocks, but you couldn't have been more wrong - that is absolutely essential IMHO.
Neither the S&B nor Ugocraft source code has any class called a "gravity well", but I haven't reached that point yet anyway.
The mod only needs to make sense to myself (I started it because I want SMP customisable ships, and there is no current alternative) - the extras I mentioned are nice, but unnecessary and time consuming.
3. Updating S&B is of course something that has come to mind for anyone reading the title of this thread, including myself. Like I said, I've already dismissed it.
If you followed my ideas of balance I wouldn't be interested in the recipes you'd use - they would match my own. I asked BECAUSE they would be different.
Being able to make a large sailable ship with just a handful of wood stacks is not an acceptable scenario in my mind, and I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want me to require real world amounts of material: HMS Victory for example, Lord Nelson's 70m flagship, took 6000 trees to build. Cutting down 6000 trees would require much, much, much more time and work than my proposal.
I want a compromise in the middle somewhere.
If you have information/data/ideas/proposals to add, that is great, I'd honestly love to see them, even if I disagree. But just telling me what you don't like about my own is fairly pointless without suggesting alternatives.
I think an interesting aspect for this mod would be to separate the size of a ship and its speed to some extent.
The ship block would control the dimensions or block limit of a ship, while a separate movement/engine block would dictate its speed capability. These movement blocks would still be effected by size to an extent.
Say you make a small ship with a level 1 engine. You would go, (arbitrary example numbers) 4 blocks per second. A medium sized ship with a single level 1 engine would go maybe 2 blocks per second. Large would go 1 block per second, and Huge/airship/submarines would get no benefits from a level 1 engine. level 2+ engines work the same way, but have diminished returns on a small ship. A level 2 engine on a medium ship goes 5 blocks/second, while a small only gets 6 or so. Still faster, but not overpoweringly so compared to larger ships.
Larger engines would require smaller ones to craft, similar to your original hull size idea to make the costs increase. You can make it cheaper to craft a larger ship, but without the proper and expensive engine in place, a large or huge ship wouldn't move fast enough to be worth the effort, still controlling their use on servers.
On top of that, since smaller ships always move faster than a larger ship with the same engine piece, separating the two would give players a reason to keep using small ships. Bigger won't always be better when it comes to speed.
Let me know if I wasn't clear on anything, and whether or not you use these ideas, thanks for your work on this mod!
Thanks Danson.
I doubt I'll get to engine blocks anytime soon, but I agree that smaller ships should be faster.
Good luck and sorry for my bad english.
What about having an option in the config file? Allowing server owners to force players to use those harder-to-get items or not to. Everyone has an opinion on this, so why not the best of both worlds?
1- For the making of the flotating engine, (thing that make the airships fly) you have to craft 3x3 of feather that gives you something (I dont have a name right now), with that you craft 3x3 of "that" but in the center a diamond, or something rare, then with "that" you put it in the center and surround it with iron, and you get the fly engine. It goes like that:
F- feather
K- feather "thing"
L- the other "Thing" crafted before
D- diamond
I- iron
O- fly engine
F F F K K K I I I
F F F = K K D K = L I L I = O
F F F K K K I I I
Well it´s something confusing maybe, but hope you understand. I think that is not very expensive nor very cheap, so, yeah.
2- I have an idea about the colision between the boat and the Ice blocks, how about a "membrane" that coat the hull that can break ice? I think it would be crafted mostly by Iron and an a uprgade of Diamond.
3- I had another idea but I forgoted it.
That's a good idea, I like it, but it means more work, so is low priority.
Atm if I could see enough recipes from enough people I could choose recipes that most people would think are "not terrible"...
72 feathers, 1 diamond (block, I think)), and 8 iron (blocks?) for an airship? Ok, I'll take it under advisement...
I thought about icebreaking too - something for later perhaps.
Good choice of recipe here, seriously that's a real good idea, and not that hard to get your hands on if you're playing vanilla Minecraft, could be a little bit trickier if using FTB modpack cause some other recipes use a lot of diamonds and iron (especially if you use Mindcrack pack with Gregtech enabled with the normal mode and not the easy one that most servers use at the moment)
One suggestion that is a real good one is to allow servers to require a specific chosen item, for example a nether star to get any kind of ship, that way the server wouldn't be overloaded with fat kids in diamond armors flying in the air this could cause so much lag I think only the ones that manage to get their hands legitly on the ingredient like a nether star or other rare resources should be allowed to have a ship on SMP, that prove that theses people are trusted and they worked real hard to get their hands on that precious thing and if they are willing to use it to get a ship instead of a beacon, that prove they are awesome enough to have a ship. It could be configured by the server owner and replaced with lets say 15 blocks of diamonds or similar recipe if they wish too...
F F
F F = K
K
K D K = airship module
K
16 feathers and 1 diamond (not a block) could give you a small airship, say 50-100 blocks total size. Similar to your small boats, it would take 2 of these and a bit of rarer resource for a larger airship piece, continued until they get to the huge size (64^3 or however many blocks)
Or you could have a modified recipe for the airship block, something slightly more expensive that gives you a 50 block ship. Adding another airship block to the same ship would allow it to have a size of 100. Add another, 150, etc. You could make bigger ships more expensive through this, but not punish people for wanting a smaller personal airship and not wanting to waste an expensive nether star on an airship block and only use 100-200 blocks when it can support far more.
Hmm, well, I'll definitely take the suggestion on board, but that sounds like about 10 minutes work to me - seems to be well and truly on the easy side...
I think our issue with these recipes is we're not quite sure of your intentions for airships. If you plan to have a size based system like the ships outlined on your earlier post or other ideas, then the feather and diamond seems alright for a small one, requiring 2 of those and some diamond blocks to upgrade to medium and so on. If you're planning to only release the 1 airship block that allows 40x40x40 sizing or XXXX total blocks, then yeah, this is way too easy to get soon, and we will need to post some formulas that make more sense for something of that size.
Mmm I don´t know, if you have a chicken farm you get the feathers really quick, I mean, make an airship is a big deal, you can go anywere withot fighting mobs or anything, you are free, except for the LAG. When I said Diamond and Iron I mean that, not block, maybe the iron block is fine, but just one diamond for the cheapest fly engine. As always just a suggestion.
A very early step...
I can convert blocks to entities that look and feel the same as blocks, but a problem getting them to render exactly the same as the deleted block is holding me up here...
Next step will be to join a bunch of blockentities together, and the step after that will be to make them move.
That is the core of the mod (although there is still a huge amount of work to be done beyond that to make it decent) and as soon as that happens I'll start my own thread for it and release it for testing.
"We"? "Our"? What issues?
All I've done is given one possibility, and asked for more. The end result is likely to be a mixture/compromise of all suggested recipes I see.
I can't speak for anyone else but I'm working only with Forge.
The new API due out with 1.5 has been worked on by guys from Forge, so I assume updating to 1.5 will be easier for a Forge mod.
We all want that! (And that's my plan...)
The more suggestions the merrier...