I know I am a little late to the party here, but my suggestions as far as skills go follow Mcmmo mostly, athletics and mining primarily, and excavation as a secondary. You might consider swapping the swords skill out for combat, as where the effects would take place anytime you attacked another entity as compared to whenever you used a sword on another entity. I only mention it because I have friends who prefer to attack things with axes or shovels, and occasionally with fists. Aside from that, I guess my opinion is that there should be high level caps (for example 1000, like mcmmo), only gaining experience for those skills via using them, as opposed to gaining general skill points. That's the part I find most unattractive about currently available skills mods, is the general skill points based on leveling, which of course go away if you die or enchant and the skill points, quite frankly where never a good idea in the first place. I wouldn't be opposed to a repair skill. As where repairing a tool would only require 1 less than making it of the material used to produce it (I.E. it takes 3 diamonds to make a diamond pickaxe, but only 2 to boost the durability to full again), and as you level the skill you slowly raise the durability level based on repair level. You could use iron blocks as anvils.... I think this idea was from Mcmmo too, but it's not original at any rate. At any rate, one of the most vital things for me about Mcmmo is the Superbreaker ability for mining. It's an invaluable part of the skill system to me and just made it complete. All tools had that right-click ability, and I implore you to include it.
That's all I can think of off the top of my head, so on that note, thank you for trying regardless of how it turns out. I honestly don't know why minecraft hasn't simply added these things naturally, I'd have thought this was one of the most obvious things and one that the community is clamoring for. So thank you. I favorited this topic because of how excited I am about it. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
I'm sorry, but dude, you haven't even played Mcmmo -that- much have you? The skills are for axes, fists, shovels (excavation), bows (archery), mining, herbalism (growing things), repair (using an iron block), taming, (wolves and cats) acrobatics (decreases fall damage) , fishing, and prolly more. Also you DONT lose your Mcmmo skill level when you die. Only your regular level (the exp orbs you get from mobs) Also, the highest Mcmmo skill level I've EVER seen (mind you I've played on MOST of the servers listed on the Mcmmo wiki page. Plus numerous servers run by friends.) is 894. And frankly, it took that player MONTHS of playing to get there. They played almost 15 hours A DAY! Also, Mcmmo finally made axes good for battle. Yea they still use 2 durability whenever hitting things OTHER THAN trees, but the critical hit chance is GREATLY increased. Add in the knock back effect and the right click ability and you can 1-hit almost every mobs in the game. You really need to read up on Mcmmo. (Here's the wiki: http://mcmmo.wikia.com/wiki/McMMO_Wiki )
I'm sorry, but dude, you haven't even played Mcmmo -that- much have you? The skills are for axes, fists, shovels (excavation), bows (archery), mining, herbalism (growing things), repair (using an iron block), taming, (wolves and cats) acrobatics (decreases fall damage) , fishing, and prolly more. Also you DONT lose your Mcmmo skill level when you die. Only your regular level (the exp orbs you get from mobs) Also, the highest Mcmmo skill level I've EVER seen (mind you I've played on MOST of the servers listed on the Mcmmo wiki page. Plus numerous servers run by friends.) is 894. And frankly, it took that player MONTHS of playing to get there. They played almost 15 hours A DAY! Also, Mcmmo finally made axes good for battle. Yea they still use 2 durability whenever hitting things OTHER THAN trees, but the critical hit chance is GREATLY increased. Add in the knock back effect and the right click ability and you can 1-hit almost every mobs in the game. You really need to read up on Mcmmo. (Here's the wiki: http://mcmmo.wikia.com/wiki/McMMO_Wiki )
I haven't used Mcmmo much no, but I was making reference to other mods, not mcmmo when referring to level loss, and the level cap is indeed 1000 on an unedited version of mcmmo, or at least it was last I looked, though it wouldn't surprise me to learn that there is a setting for an unlimited level gain. I have hit 1000 in mining on 2 severs and it refused to raise any further, so that was my basis for reference. I have read up in the wiki thank you, I was simply suggesting adding a combat function that allows for all weapons, but it was a suggestion, I am sorry I offended your massively intuitive knowledge of a mod and how this one couldn't possibly have a distinction of its own...
Thank you for your suggestions! I disagree about the strictly combined combat skills simply because if someone was a sword wielder it wouldn't make sense that they could punch someone's armor off. I do like the idea of having SOME influence on bonuses with the overall combat level. I might instead make it so that the scaled, combined level of combat skills would influence knockback or something. What do you think?
On the subject of level caps, I have not put in level caps. The only limit is the limit of an int in Java which is about 2147483647 (or 2^31). However, it is extremely difficult to achieve enough experience to even come close to that level. Are level caps a good idea? I may be totally wrong on not including this. FYI I have the experience reset to 0 after every level increase and the xp increase to approx 2 times the previous amount. (it's more complicated than that but easier to explain)
On repair: So far, repair has already been added and is completely functional. I might add a new anvil block (you would only have to right click it) just to make this a distinguishable mod. Otherwise it's not really necessary for another block. Thoughts?
If you would like to see the curves I'm using, message me and I'll be sure to send them.
I am going to be adding those bonuses (super breaker) and such ASAP. I very much enjoyed using those features on mcMMO as well. Fear not! They will be there
I agree about the strictly combat based skill level, even while I was writing it I was thinking that it'd have adverse effects on combat as a whole. I decided to leave the suggestion in because I was hoping it'd spark up an alternative or at least leave the impression I was after, which was that alternative weapons use should at least be considered in a skilling system. Perhaps a combat leveling system might include variables for axes, pugilism,etc... by leveling based on what was used in combat at the appropriate rate. I.E. using a sword in combat would level Combat: Swords, switching to and axe would level Combat: Axes, and the combined combat variable would add a tiny amount of damage bonus on top of the specific bonus where Lv 5 swords and lv 5 axes is 10 total combat and would provide 0.02% (0.01% for every 5 total combat) damage bonus. This would distribute the power evenly by slowing progression of the bonus to a point that it wasn't useless, but your combat experience, regardless of weapon, would still matter. But then again, it also sounds like a lot of extra work, I just thought to bring it up because it's something that came up a lot while using MCMMO with friends. Overall I feel that swords are the effective melee system, and I am perfectly ok with leaving swords in that role.
I am perfectly happy with a no level cap system. The only reason I brought it up was in my weekly search for a single player mcmmo many skill mods have a persistent need to set limits that are, in my opinion, too low. So that was the reason I mentioned it at all. Personally, I think if you decided that setting a cap was needed 100 is a fair place to end the leveling, but that's just my opinion.
As for adding an anvil block, I would appreciate it if my anvil looked like an anvil and didn't take 9 iron ingots to make, so if that already in the works I agree that it'd be nice, though I might say that still being able to use an iron block as an anvil would be a good idea. Rather than limiting the use to just the anvil, players would have a choice. I feel that not using a block for the repair skill, while adding convenience, maybe be making it too easy, you know what I mean? Besides I feel personally, that having a decent looking workshop would just feel better with an anvil to repair items on. So personally I'd avoid the ease of no anvil repairing (though you might look into simply add a GUI to allow players to make the decisions about these things for themselves, allowing for a level of customization). But then that's my opinion (shrug).
Honestly, I'd be glad to look at the curves, but I am not sure what that is, so I doubt I'd have any idea how to read them. So pretty much assume that when it comes to java programming, I am an idiot... You'd be right in that respect. SO I won't ask to see them, but I appreciate the offer and if I had any idea how to read them I would gladly have a look.
Lastly, I thought of something else to recommend, Swimming. This may have been suggested already; I didn't actually read everything until this point, but you may consider adding swimming to increase water movement speed, submerged block breaking (as anyone who's ever broken a block underwater will know, it takes almost triple the time it takes above water) and increased breath holding abilities. This came to me as I was playing last night with mo' creatures installed as was trying to fight 2 alligators and a shark in the ocean (14 block swamp island seed.... Dammit....) I had to time to realize that swimming is a very underrated ability in minecraft.
On that note, thanks for taking the time to read the suggestions, not everyone does. Again thanks for making this at all. There are a lot of elements that are off in minecraft that make the game feel off balance, but this is one that is almost essential to playing for me.
@irish_vampyre (>.<") Damn dude, I'm sorry if I sounded like a total asshole. I didn't mean for it to be that way. I was just limited on time and I've been covering for someone at work so I'm effectively working double hours. I was tired and about to drift off to sleep. I didn't have time to even glance at this thread. Once again, sorry. But I understand now what you're saying about the combat system. I agree. *facepalms* How could someone not mention swimming? I mean, you have to swim alot. And yes, mining blocks (just dirt) is a total pain in the ass. And add the fact that some mobs trap you underwater? Also I'd prefer to have no level cap if only on repairing. Who doesn't want a diamond pick that has about 3 enchants to get repaired for a 100% success rate of keeping the enchants? Hell, I'd be fine with an 80% chance to keep the enchants. It'd be better than that shitty 40% chance (unmodified) at repair level 1000. I feel the same way about java and/or programming (I only know java is a programming language, thats it.) I wouldn't be able to do anything.
@SolarPrizm Agreed. Thanx for taking the time to make this AND ask for suggestions. You couldv'e just copied everything and put it into a SSP mod but you didn't. If I have to wait another month for this to be finished, I'll wait. At least we have someone trying. Thanx again.
I agree about the strictly combat based skill level, even while I was writing it I was thinking that it'd have adverse effects on combat as a whole. I decided to leave the suggestion in because I was hoping it'd spark up an alternative or at least leave the impression I was after, which was that alternative weapons use should at least be considered in a skilling system. Perhaps a combat leveling system might include variables for axes, pugilism,etc... by leveling based on what was used in combat at the appropriate rate. I.E. using a sword in combat would level Combat: Swords, switching to and axe would level Combat: Axes, and the combined combat variable would add a tiny amount of damage bonus on top of the specific bonus where Lv 5 swords and lv 5 axes is 10 total combat and would provide 0.02% (0.01% for every 5 total combat) damage bonus. This would distribute the power evenly by slowing progression of the bonus to a point that it wasn't useless, but your combat experience, regardless of weapon, would still matter. But then again, it also sounds like a lot of extra work, I just thought to bring it up because it's something that came up a lot while using MCMMO with friends. Overall I feel that swords are the effective melee system, and I am perfectly ok with leaving swords in that role.
Could you explain this in a different way? I had a hard time understanding what you meant here. The general idea I see is that you would like other weapons to have a small effect on boosting the damage done to mobs. What I am thinking for the best way to attack this (pardon the pun ) would be to actually use a power on the average skill level of all combat skills instead of a percentage. Ex. (average of woodcutting, unarmed, and sword skills) ^ (2/3)
Reason being, it is a more reasonable result than if I just divided the average skill set by 5 which is like taking 20%.
Question: How small do you think the combat bonus should be?
As for adding an anvil block, I would appreciate it if my anvil looked like an anvil and didn't take 9 iron ingots to make, so if that already in the works I agree that it'd be nice, though I might say that still being able to use an iron block as an anvil would be a good idea. Rather than limiting the use to just the anvil, players would have a choice. I feel that not using a block for the repair skill, while adding convenience, maybe be making it too easy, you know what I mean? Besides I feel personally, that having a decent looking workshop would just feel better with an anvil to repair items on. So personally I'd avoid the ease of no anvil repairing (though you might look into simply add a GUI to allow players to make the decisions about these things for themselves, allowing for a level of customization). But then that's my opinion (shrug).
Excellent ideas, good sir. I could add a block that decently resembles an anvil considering it would be "Minecraft-y". I think, for functional purposes, the anvil should have a toggleable action. I already have a GUI showing stats and help information so it wouldn't be very difficult to add a toggle button. It could have 3 states (like the difficulty button): Anvil, IronBlock, Anvil and IronBlock. I don't think that players should be able to repair anywhere at all because that would make it a relatively easy skill to increase.
Question: Did I miss something from what you suggested?
Honestly, I'd be glad to look at the curves, but I am not sure what that is, so I doubt I'd have any idea how to read them. So pretty much assume that when it comes to java programming, I am an idiot... You'd be right in that respect. SO I won't ask to see them, but I appreciate the offer and if I had any idea how to read them I would gladly have a look.
Basically it's a x/y-axis graph. The curve is the equation essentially, so it is probably simpler than you thought it was.
Lastly, I thought of something else to recommend, Swimming. This may have been suggested already; I didn't actually read everything until this point, but you may consider adding swimming to increase water movement speed, submerged block breaking (as anyone who's ever broken a block underwater will know, it takes almost triple the time it takes above water) and increased breath holding abilities. This came to me as I was playing last night with mo' creatures installed as was trying to fight 2 alligators and a shark in the ocean (14 block swamp island seed.... Dammit....) I had to time to realize that swimming is a very underrated ability in minecraft.
On that note, thanks for taking the time to read the suggestions, not everyone does. Again thanks for making this at all. There are a lot of elements that are off in minecraft that make the game feel off balance, but this is one that is almost essential to playing for me.
Brilliant idea!! Swimming would be a fantastic addition, thank you!
Effects:
- faster breaking underwater
- faster swim speed (don't know how easy/hard this is to implement; it may be out of my league, not sure)
- diving ability (how bout this one?)
- breathe longer
Thank you very much for the suggestions! I very much appreciate them, please leave more I do hope to restore those parts you feel are missing
How could someone not mention swimming? I mean, you have to swim alot. And yes, mining blocks (just dirt) is a total pain in the ass. And add the fact that some mobs trap you underwater? Also I'd prefer to have no level cap if only on repairing. Who doesn't want a diamond pick that has about 3 enchants to get repaired for a 100% success rate of keeping the enchants? Hell, I'd be fine with an 80% chance to keep the enchants. It'd be better than that shitty 40% chance (unmodified) at repair level 1000. I feel the same way about java and/or programming (I only know java is a programming language, thats it.) I wouldn't be able to do anything.
@SolarPrizm Agreed. Thanx for taking the time to make this AND ask for suggestions. You couldv'e just copied everything and put it into a SSP mod but you didn't. If I have to wait another month for this to be finished, I'll wait. At least we have someone trying. Thanx again.
The enchantments will also give you experience! I do hope it doesn't take a month o.o That would be quite an achievement in and of itself!
The level caps are out for sure then. It seems that it would be far better to have the caps off and make the levels harder and harder to achieve. The looser I can make the mod on players (compatibility and such) the better it will be in my mind
BTW All questions I ask (emphasized by italics for your convenience) are essentially free game for ANYONE to answer! I love suggestions because this is for you guys!
Could you explain this in a different way? I had a hard time understanding what you meant here. The general idea I see is that you would like other weapons to have a small effect on boosting the damage done to mobs. What I am thinking for the best way to attack this (pardon the pun ) would be to actually use a power on the average skill level of all combat skills instead of a percentage. Ex. (average of woodcutting, unarmed, and sword skills) ^ (2/3)
Reason being, it is a more reasonable result than if I just divided the average skill set by 5 which is like taking 20%.
The best way I can think of to describe it is making a combat skill with sub skills? Kind of combat with swords (Combat - Swords, Combat - Axes, etc...) Where you create the skill class combat, and all levels feed into that value. However that would only give you minor bonuses to overall damage no matter what you're using. Whether you're fighting with fists, swords, axes, bows, whatever. I used a percent as the bonus value to avoid overpowering any one skill through use of the combat system. For example I don't think that if you have 1000 swords there should be a standard bonus of plus 5 hearts of damage, let's say from strength, that you can use when punching. Rather that if say you manage to get a 50% bonus, aka 5000 total combat points if we assume the standard bonus is 1 point = 0.01%, when you punch and take 1 heart the bonus would allow for 1 1/2 hearts actual damage, but that same bonus would allow for 4 1/2 (3+50%) for cutting with a stone sword. It was just a thought on how to even out the skills by adding combat skills for all potential weapons, while maintaining an overall level. Essentially, you could accomplish the same thing by adding a strength skill and having it level slower than other skills by fighting period, and giving an overall bonus bonus. Hell if you were going to do that, you might consider adding a faster bare fist block break... But I was just tossing around ideas on leveling the weapons skill playing field so to speak. I knew what I was writing but I tend to make analogies and concepts that are hard to grasp because I lack the appropriate communication skills to convey the thought process XD Sorry. As for how small the bonus should be... I wouldn't necessarily put a limit on it, but I'd avoid allowing any kind of ease on getting above a 50% bonus. I think skills tend to slow down at about 375 or so, therefore somewhere in the range of 0.134% per skill point or 1% for every 7 (7.5 technically) points. if you're going for standardized damage, I might say 1/2 heart bonus for every 100 points. But that's just my opinion.
As for the anvil idea, you took exactly what I said perfectly. I think that the level of customization is severely underrated in mods, so I prefer the GUI option, though you might add the no block at all option. Just cause we don't think it's balanced doesn't mean that everyone will think that. Alternatively, you could allow for a tool, a smithing hammer let's say, that can be right clicked for use while holding it to enter the repair table, it's not a huge jump from the anvil idea and the durability would add balance. However that being said I am on the anvil side, rather than the hammer. But that's me...
As for swimming, even without the movement speed, which I think shouldn't be too hard to alter but then I can't say much, faster block breaking, longer underwater breath-holding it'd be worth having. Diving, what exactly did you have in mind? I can think of many different versions of what diving could mean from being able to lower one's self faster in the water to being able to jump into a 1-deep pool of water without taking damage from x height, where x is determined by the skill level. Either way, I am in, but I still want to know XD At any rate, fighting off faster moving, aquatic mobs (which you should take a look at the mo' creatures alligator attack animation if you haven't seen it, it really does make you fear getting caught by them...) gives one clarity to think about these things, so I am glad it's a suggestion that's met with approval.
Damn dude, I'm sorry if I sounded like a total asshole. I didn't mean for it to be that way. I was just limited on time and I've been covering for someone at work so I'm effectively working double hours. I was tired and about to drift off to sleep. I didn't have time to even glance at this thread. Once again, sorry. But I understand now what you're saying about the combat system. I agree.
It's cool dude I tried to be passive about my reaction, but it too was a little aggressive so I am sorry too. Chalk it up to being too interested in having something to say but not having enough energy/patience left from the day at hand to be speaking (I too was a bit tired and reacted a bit more harshly than I wanted to). Bygones and all that, Cheers!
To close my reply here (these things seem to get longer and longer....), you can't fix everything that throws the game off for me with skills, but it goes a long way, so thank you. Actually the part that bugs me the most is the lack of furniture... Premiere prospect of minecraft, build a house, but you don't need furniture or a lot of painting options, you certainly don't need any statues or any decent lighting options to improve the look of your home and/or designate it a monster free zone and god forbid you have boat capable of not breaking when you run into a lillypad...... But my personal woes..... Anyways, thanks again!
I say look back at other video games to see what works, what players like and don't like. For example, a Combat System with sub-Skills? Name a game that had that kind of feature in their Skills system? I can't recall any open-world rpgs, such as the Elder Scrolls games, that had that kind of system.
As for the repair system, that seems intriguing. Players should be able to repair their worn out tools, but not like how Notch envisioned it. An anvil would make it easier, plus with an added repair system it'll be fun and hopefully even a little challenging.
As for the swimming skill, I have my doubts for that one. There's a reason why Bethesda never had a swimming skill in The Elder Scrolls games.
The best way I can think of to describe it is making a combat skill with sub skills? Kind of combat with swords (Combat - Swords, Combat - Axes, etc...) Where you create the skill class combat, and all levels feed into that value. However that would only give you minor bonuses to overall damage no matter what you're using. Whether you're fighting with fists, swords, axes, bows, whatever. I used a percent as the bonus value to avoid overpowering any one skill through use of the combat system. For example I don't think that if you have 1000 swords there should be a standard bonus of plus 5 hearts of damage, let's say from strength, that you can use when punching. Rather that if say you manage to get a 50% bonus, aka 5000 total combat points if we assume the standard bonus is 1 point = 0.01%, when you punch and take 1 heart the bonus would allow for 1 1/2 hearts actual damage, but that same bonus would allow for 4 1/2 (3+50%) for cutting with a stone sword. It was just a thought on how to even out the skills by adding combat skills for all potential weapons, while maintaining an overall level. Essentially, you could accomplish the same thing by adding a strength skill and having it level slower than other skills by fighting period, and giving an overall bonus bonus. Hell if you were going to do that, you might consider adding a faster bare fist block break... But I was just tossing around ideas on leveling the weapons skill playing field so to speak. I knew what I was writing but I tend to make analogies and concepts that are hard to grasp because I lack the appropriate communication skills to convey the thought process XD Sorry. As for how small the bonus should be... I wouldn't necessarily put a limit on it, but I'd avoid allowing any kind of ease on getting above a 50% bonus. I think skills tend to slow down at about 375 or so, therefore somewhere in the range of 0.134% per skill point or 1% for every 7 (7.5 technically) points. if you're going for standardized damage, I might say 1/2 heart bonus for every 100 points. But that's just my opinion.
I think that's an excellent idea. I think that it shouldn't be considered a skill, but more like a summation skill. A sort of "power level" if you will. The effects will be minor but noticeable if one has massive unarmed skill and a bad sword skill. The carryover will be noticeable but will not give experience to the player in any of its skills. These are all great suggestions! I understand you now, no worries. I think standardized damage is out of the question because of the increases in levels. It will definitely have some scalability with the weapon skill level average.
Question: What do you think it should be called? "Power level"? "Strength"? Or should this be added at all?
As for the anvil idea, you took exactly what I said perfectly. I think that the level of customization is severely underrated in mods, so I prefer the GUI option, though you might add the no block at all option. Just cause we don't think it's balanced doesn't mean that everyone will think that. Alternatively, you could allow for a tool, a smithing hammer let's say, that can be right clicked for use while holding it to enter the repair table, it's not a huge jump from the anvil idea and the durability would add balance. However that being said I am on the anvil side, rather than the hammer. But that's me...
I like that hammer idea. However, I realize many people will want to play this mod with other mods. I don't want to turn this into a Tekkit, Aether, or anything like that (even if I am exaggerating) by adding items and blocks and such. If I don't add material objects to the game, then people can add mods to combine with this one. I'm thinking that I will make it so that people can add their additions that can hook into a later API. I could even add bundles that I could make myself little additions that hook into, but can separate from the mod itself. Because of this, I am probably dropping adding an anvil to this mod.
GOAL: It is in my best interest to make this mod completely COMPATIBLE with as many mods as I can. Customization is also key in the respect that people can add mods to this one that hook into it. I do not think changing the experience blocks give you (or other experience giving things), adding new blocks or tools, or changing your skill levels manually, etc. should be implemented into this mod. I want to see people sharing their stats they earned legitimately with others. A sort of competition to be the better Minecraft player. That, in short, is one of my main goals.
As for swimming, even without the movement speed, which I think shouldn't be too hard to alter but then I can't say much, faster block breaking, longer underwater breath-holding it'd be worth having. Diving, what exactly did you have in mind? I can think of many different versions of what diving could mean from being able to lower one's self faster in the water to being able to jump into a 1-deep pool of water without taking damage from x height, where x is determined by the skill level. Either way, I am in, but I still want to know XD At any rate, fighting off faster moving, aquatic mobs (which you should take a look at the mo' creatures alligator attack animation if you haven't seen it, it really does make you fear getting caught by them...) gives one clarity to think about these things, so I am glad it's a suggestion that's met with approval.
I was thinking that if one pressed the sneak button, they could dive to the bottom of a pool of water and obviously they would be able to rise faster in water, too. I don't think I will implement the damage bit because that doesn't seem to have to do with swimming. I think I might have a look that is definitely a mod I want to provide compatibility for.
I say look back at other video games to see what works, what players like and don't like. For example, a Combat System with sub-Skills? Name a game that had that kind of feature in their Skills system? I can't recall any open-world rpgs, such as the Elder Scrolls games, that had that kind of system. As for the repair system, that seems intriguing. Players should be able to repair their worn out tools, but not like how Notch envisioned it. An anvil would make it easier, plus with an added repair system it'll be fun and hopefully even a little challenging. As for the swimming skill, I have my doubts for that one. There's a reason why Bethesda never had a swimming skill in The Elder Scrolls games.
I agree with the sub skills bit, but I don't think that is exactly what irish_vampyre was thinking of. What do you mean by doubts for the swimming skill? I think it is a great skill for Minecraft to have, since there seems to be SO much water. I can see why it may not have been appropriate for the Elder Scrolls games but I do not see why it wouldn't be appropriate for Minecraft. Let me know if I misunderstood, please; I may have missed something. Also please elaborate on your doubts for that skill please.
Hey guys, this mod's ETA has been extended slightly due to vacation but should be available soon! Also, other modders out there trying to turn out this gawd-awful-complicated mod, please keep in mind the competition in making it sooner is stressful enough and other people making the same thing doesn't exactly help. I am working with some other folks on this mod and it is taking a large amount of time, mainly because we have lives outside of modding . Almost all of my free time is spend on this thing and I would really appreciate if other modders could wait a few weeks to see my finished project. I promise, you will love it. I know you all are anxious and I am working whole-hog on this thing despite the enormity of the project. Thank you for all of your support, and keep sending the suggestions in!
For example, a Combat System with sub-Skills? Name a game that had that kind of feature in their Skills system? I can't recall any open-world rpgs, such as the Elder Scrolls games, that had that kind of system.
Actually from a prgramming point of view, very nearly, all rpgs have a subskill system. As where the total value is implemented in subtle ways, but the values of the subset are simply considered skills. Most games that implement this feature simply don't advertise that the system works this way, because no one cares. Games that do implement these features in an open light usual refer to base values as 'Paths' and the subset are viewed as skills within a path. You may or may not gain bonuses for your total level in a path, which adds all subset values to form the value of the base, while the base value doesn't necessarily affect the subset values. A good example of a base value affecting subset values is Diablo II's synergy bonuses. As where the addition of the skills providing a bonus to a certain skill would collect into a total before factoring the incremental bonus. The subset of values would be the skill level of those skills giving a bonus to the target skill, the base value is the total of those skills, then a mathematical formula breaks down the base value into a bonus number and applies it to the target skill. It sounds confusing, but the truth is that it's a simple concept.
I think that's an excellent idea. I think that it shouldn't be considered a skill, but more like a summation skill. A sort of "power level" if you will. The effects will be minor but noticeable if one has massive unarmed skill and a bad sword skill. The carryover will be noticeable but will not give experience to the player in any of its skills. These are all great suggestions! I understand you now, no worries. I think standardized damage is out of the question because of the increases in levels. It will definitely have some scalability with the weapon skill level average.
Whether or not it's a true skill is sort of irrelevant in my opinion, you could hide the value and it'd still do the same thing. Many games that do use it, as I mentioned above, do hide the value. I am glad that I explained it well enough to convey it. In words it really is tricky to explain, but the concept is pretty basic. Anyways, that having been said, I think if it were me giving it a name I'd call it strength, because it explains the bonus in a simple way that makes sense, but perhaps it's just me.
I like that hammer idea. However, I realize many people will want to play this mod with other mods. I don't want to turn this into a Tekkit, Aether, or anything like that (even if I am exaggerating) by adding items and blocks and such. If I don't add material objects to the game, then people can add mods to combine with this one. I'm thinking that I will make it so that people can add their additions that can hook into a later API. I could even add bundles that I could make myself little additions that hook into, but can separate from the mod itself. Because of this, I am probably dropping adding an anvil to this mod.
Exactly why I thought about the iron block thing. When you said you were adding an anvil block I was a little concerned because I used mo' creatures, and a bunch of the modloader author's extra block mods as well as an airship mod and a revolver mod (though I never use the revolver, it's nice to know I have the option in case I start coming across fire ogres more often....). It makes sense that you're avoiding adding blocks, so though the loss of the anvil sucks, I am still behind you. I do recommend still using the iron block rather than a simple right click system. The hammer idea was just an alternative to a stationary repair tool, and honestly, if it weren't an issue to add blocks I'd probably require an anvil and the use of a hammer on it to make it work. But again, blocks and other mods..... So I hear you and I am still right with you.
I was thinking that if one pressed the sneak button, they could dive to the bottom of a pool of water and obviously they would be able to rise faster in water, too. I don't think I will implement the damage bit because that doesn't seem to have to do with swimming. I think I might have a look that is definitely a mod I want to provide compatibility for.
I figured you didn't mean the diving skill would be the damage reduction thing, particularly as athletics should cover that, but I wanted to make sure of what you meant by a diving skill and I agree with you. That would be a good addition. When I suggested it actually, I thought that to be term accurate swimming would have to simply be movement speed and diving would encompass breathe holding and block breaking. But the idea of separating skills based on simple linguistic characteristics seemed to be splitting hairs. I like the way you've got it going. I personally have no doubts about the swimming skill. Swimming is a massive part of minecraft. Some people build underwater homes or entrances to their homes. Some seeds have been known to put you on a single block of dirt in the middle of the ocean. Heck even my current home, I went to set up a house on a friend's small family server because I was being laid to siege by my enemies on the server, because of towny there's not a lot anyone can do but kill me and take my things, prevent me from expanding, etc... So when I moved away I went as far away as possible by the near-by ocean. I ended up on a single person sized island maybe 120x140 blocks that is over 1000 blocks away from any other significant land masses (except for a mushroom island that I found while mapping out the area, which was awesome....). I broke my boat in the swamp, where I was gathering lillypads for my farms. I then was forced to try to collect wood in the middle of the night with a turtle on my head to build a boat when I could have otherwise swam it. However because the trip is about 7 minutes by boat with a really good direction heading, that wasn't an option. Given I have McMMO on the server, but it brings up the no swimming issue. So I believe it's a good call... However, that may just be my opinion. You can always try a 'beta test' and see if people like it or not. (shrug)
Actually from a prgramming point of view, very nearly, all rpgs have a subskill system. As where the total value is implemented in subtle ways, but the values of the subset are simply considered skills. Most games that implement this feature simply don't advertise that the system works this way, because no one cares. Games that do implement these features in an open light usual refer to base values as 'Paths' and the subset are viewed as skills within a path. You may or may not gain bonuses for your total level in a path, which adds all subset values to form the value of the base, while the base value doesn't necessarily affect the subset values. A good example of a base value affecting subset values is Diablo II's synergy bonuses. As where the addition of the skills providing a bonus to a certain skill would collect into a total before factoring the incremental bonus. The subset of values would be the skill level of those skills giving a bonus to the target skill, the base value is the total of those skills, then a mathematical formula breaks down the base value into a bonus number and applies it to the target skill. It sounds confusing, but the truth is that it's a simple concept.
Whether or not it's a true skill is sort of irrelevant in my opinion, you could hide the value and it'd still do the same thing. Many games that do use it, as I mentioned above, do hide the value. I am glad that I explained it well enough to convey it. In words it really is tricky to explain, but the concept is pretty basic. Anyways, that having been said, I think if it were me giving it a name I'd call it strength, because it explains the bonus in a simple way that makes sense, but perhaps it's just me.
I think I see what you mean by subskills. Other than strength, you mean just subtle changes to influence of different things.
A way to start unifying the skills in little ways. Makes sense to me!
Exactly why I thought about the iron block thing. When you said you were adding an anvil block I was a little concerned because I used mo' creatures, and a bunch of the modloader author's extra block mods as well as an airship mod and a revolver mod (though I never use the revolver, it's nice to know I have the option in case I start coming across fire ogres more often....). It makes sense that you're avoiding adding blocks, so though the loss of the anvil sucks, I am still behind you. I do recommend still using the iron block rather than a simple right click system. The hammer idea was just an alternative to a stationary repair tool, and honestly, if it weren't an issue to add blocks I'd probably require an anvil and the use of a hammer on it to make it work. But again, blocks and other mods..... So I hear you and I am still right with you.
I figured you didn't mean the diving skill would be the damage reduction thing, particularly as athletics should cover that, but I wanted to make sure of what you meant by a diving skill and I agree with you. That would be a good addition. When I suggested it actually, I thought that to be term accurate swimming would have to simply be movement speed and diving would encompass breathe holding and block breaking. But the idea of separating skills based on simple linguistic characteristics seemed to be splitting hairs. I like the way you've got it going. I personally have no doubts about the swimming skill. Swimming is a massive part of minecraft. Some people build underwater homes or entrances to their homes. Some seeds have been known to put you on a single block of dirt in the middle of the ocean. Heck even my current home, I went to set up a house on a friend's small family server because I was being laid to siege by my enemies on the server, because of towny there's not a lot anyone can do but kill me and take my things, prevent me from expanding, etc... So when I moved away I went as far away as possible by the near-by ocean. I ended up on a single person sized island maybe 120x140 blocks that is over 1000 blocks away from any other significant land masses (except for a mushroom island that I found while mapping out the area, which was awesome....). I broke my boat in the swamp, where I was gathering lillypads for my farms. I then was forced to try to collect wood in the middle of the night with a turtle on my head to build a boat when I could have otherwise swam it. However because the trip is about 7 minutes by boat with a really good direction heading, that wasn't an option. Given I have McMMO on the server, but it brings up the no swimming issue. So I believe it's a good call... However, that may just be my opinion. You can always try a 'beta test' and see if people like it or not. (shrug)
Awesome I hope to form that sort of link with everyone on here
Thanks for your suggestions on swimming. I am glad you brought up the skill. It is one of many great unique pieces that will make this mod complete. Let me know all of your crazy and wild ideas!
What do you guys think about the GUI in that picture set I have on Flickr? (link above)
I'm sorry, but dude, you haven't even played Mcmmo -that- much have you? The skills are for axes, fists, shovels (excavation), bows (archery), mining, herbalism (growing things), repair (using an iron block), taming, (wolves and cats) acrobatics (decreases fall damage) , fishing, and prolly more. Also you DONT lose your Mcmmo skill level when you die. Only your regular level (the exp orbs you get from mobs) Also, the highest Mcmmo skill level I've EVER seen (mind you I've played on MOST of the servers listed on the Mcmmo wiki page. Plus numerous servers run by friends.) is 894. And frankly, it took that player MONTHS of playing to get there. They played almost 15 hours A DAY! Also, Mcmmo finally made axes good for battle. Yea they still use 2 durability whenever hitting things OTHER THAN trees, but the critical hit chance is GREATLY increased. Add in the knock back effect and the right click ability and you can 1-hit almost every mobs in the game. You really need to read up on Mcmmo. (Here's the wiki: http://mcmmo.wikia.com/wiki/McMMO_Wiki )
-Heros get remembered, but Legends never die-
I haven't used Mcmmo much no, but I was making reference to other mods, not mcmmo when referring to level loss, and the level cap is indeed 1000 on an unedited version of mcmmo, or at least it was last I looked, though it wouldn't surprise me to learn that there is a setting for an unlimited level gain. I have hit 1000 in mining on 2 severs and it refused to raise any further, so that was my basis for reference. I have read up in the wiki thank you, I was simply suggesting adding a combat function that allows for all weapons, but it was a suggestion, I am sorry I offended your massively intuitive knowledge of a mod and how this one couldn't possibly have a distinction of its own...
I agree about the strictly combat based skill level, even while I was writing it I was thinking that it'd have adverse effects on combat as a whole. I decided to leave the suggestion in because I was hoping it'd spark up an alternative or at least leave the impression I was after, which was that alternative weapons use should at least be considered in a skilling system. Perhaps a combat leveling system might include variables for axes, pugilism,etc... by leveling based on what was used in combat at the appropriate rate. I.E. using a sword in combat would level Combat: Swords, switching to and axe would level Combat: Axes, and the combined combat variable would add a tiny amount of damage bonus on top of the specific bonus where Lv 5 swords and lv 5 axes is 10 total combat and would provide 0.02% (0.01% for every 5 total combat) damage bonus. This would distribute the power evenly by slowing progression of the bonus to a point that it wasn't useless, but your combat experience, regardless of weapon, would still matter. But then again, it also sounds like a lot of extra work, I just thought to bring it up because it's something that came up a lot while using MCMMO with friends. Overall I feel that swords are the effective melee system, and I am perfectly ok with leaving swords in that role.
I am perfectly happy with a no level cap system. The only reason I brought it up was in my weekly search for a single player mcmmo many skill mods have a persistent need to set limits that are, in my opinion, too low. So that was the reason I mentioned it at all. Personally, I think if you decided that setting a cap was needed 100 is a fair place to end the leveling, but that's just my opinion.
As for adding an anvil block, I would appreciate it if my anvil looked like an anvil and didn't take 9 iron ingots to make, so if that already in the works I agree that it'd be nice, though I might say that still being able to use an iron block as an anvil would be a good idea. Rather than limiting the use to just the anvil, players would have a choice. I feel that not using a block for the repair skill, while adding convenience, maybe be making it too easy, you know what I mean? Besides I feel personally, that having a decent looking workshop would just feel better with an anvil to repair items on. So personally I'd avoid the ease of no anvil repairing (though you might look into simply add a GUI to allow players to make the decisions about these things for themselves, allowing for a level of customization). But then that's my opinion (shrug).
Honestly, I'd be glad to look at the curves, but I am not sure what that is, so I doubt I'd have any idea how to read them. So pretty much assume that when it comes to java programming, I am an idiot... You'd be right in that respect. SO I won't ask to see them, but I appreciate the offer and if I had any idea how to read them I would gladly have a look.
Lastly, I thought of something else to recommend, Swimming. This may have been suggested already; I didn't actually read everything until this point, but you may consider adding swimming to increase water movement speed, submerged block breaking (as anyone who's ever broken a block underwater will know, it takes almost triple the time it takes above water) and increased breath holding abilities. This came to me as I was playing last night with mo' creatures installed as was trying to fight 2 alligators and a shark in the ocean (14 block swamp island seed.... Dammit....) I had to time to realize that swimming is a very underrated ability in minecraft.
On that note, thanks for taking the time to read the suggestions, not everyone does. Again thanks for making this at all. There are a lot of elements that are off in minecraft that make the game feel off balance, but this is one that is almost essential to playing for me.
@SolarPrizm Agreed. Thanx for taking the time to make this AND ask for suggestions. You couldv'e just copied everything and put it into a SSP mod but you didn't. If I have to wait another month for this to be finished, I'll wait. At least we have someone trying. Thanx again.
-Heros get remembered, but Legends never die-
Could you explain this in a different way? I had a hard time understanding what you meant here. The general idea I see is that you would like other weapons to have a small effect on boosting the damage done to mobs. What I am thinking for the best way to attack this (pardon the pun ) would be to actually use a power on the average skill level of all combat skills instead of a percentage.
Ex. (average of woodcutting, unarmed, and sword skills) ^ (2/3)
Reason being, it is a more reasonable result than if I just divided the average skill set by 5 which is like taking 20%.
Question: How small do you think the combat bonus should be?
Excellent ideas, good sir. I could add a block that decently resembles an anvil considering it would be "Minecraft-y". I think, for functional purposes, the anvil should have a toggleable action. I already have a GUI showing stats and help information so it wouldn't be very difficult to add a toggle button. It could have 3 states (like the difficulty button): Anvil, IronBlock, Anvil and IronBlock. I don't think that players should be able to repair anywhere at all because that would make it a relatively easy skill to increase.
Question: Did I miss something from what you suggested?
Basically it's a x/y-axis graph. The curve is the equation essentially, so it is probably simpler than you thought it was.
Brilliant idea!! Swimming would be a fantastic addition, thank you!
Effects:
- faster breaking underwater
- faster swim speed (don't know how easy/hard this is to implement; it may be out of my league, not sure)
- diving ability (how bout this one?)
- breathe longer
Thank you very much for the suggestions! I very much appreciate them, please leave more I do hope to restore those parts you feel are missing
The enchantments will also give you experience! I do hope it doesn't take a month o.o That would be quite an achievement in and of itself!
The level caps are out for sure then. It seems that it would be far better to have the caps off and make the levels harder and harder to achieve. The looser I can make the mod on players (compatibility and such) the better it will be in my mind
BTW All questions I ask (emphasized by italics for your convenience) are essentially free game for ANYONE to answer! I love suggestions because this is for you guys!
The best way I can think of to describe it is making a combat skill with sub skills? Kind of combat with swords (Combat - Swords, Combat - Axes, etc...) Where you create the skill class combat, and all levels feed into that value. However that would only give you minor bonuses to overall damage no matter what you're using. Whether you're fighting with fists, swords, axes, bows, whatever. I used a percent as the bonus value to avoid overpowering any one skill through use of the combat system. For example I don't think that if you have 1000 swords there should be a standard bonus of plus 5 hearts of damage, let's say from strength, that you can use when punching. Rather that if say you manage to get a 50% bonus, aka 5000 total combat points if we assume the standard bonus is 1 point = 0.01%, when you punch and take 1 heart the bonus would allow for 1 1/2 hearts actual damage, but that same bonus would allow for 4 1/2 (3+50%) for cutting with a stone sword. It was just a thought on how to even out the skills by adding combat skills for all potential weapons, while maintaining an overall level. Essentially, you could accomplish the same thing by adding a strength skill and having it level slower than other skills by fighting period, and giving an overall bonus bonus. Hell if you were going to do that, you might consider adding a faster bare fist block break... But I was just tossing around ideas on leveling the weapons skill playing field so to speak. I knew what I was writing but I tend to make analogies and concepts that are hard to grasp because I lack the appropriate communication skills to convey the thought process XD Sorry. As for how small the bonus should be... I wouldn't necessarily put a limit on it, but I'd avoid allowing any kind of ease on getting above a 50% bonus. I think skills tend to slow down at about 375 or so, therefore somewhere in the range of 0.134% per skill point or 1% for every 7 (7.5 technically) points. if you're going for standardized damage, I might say 1/2 heart bonus for every 100 points. But that's just my opinion.
As for the anvil idea, you took exactly what I said perfectly. I think that the level of customization is severely underrated in mods, so I prefer the GUI option, though you might add the no block at all option. Just cause we don't think it's balanced doesn't mean that everyone will think that. Alternatively, you could allow for a tool, a smithing hammer let's say, that can be right clicked for use while holding it to enter the repair table, it's not a huge jump from the anvil idea and the durability would add balance. However that being said I am on the anvil side, rather than the hammer. But that's me...
As for swimming, even without the movement speed, which I think shouldn't be too hard to alter but then I can't say much, faster block breaking, longer underwater breath-holding it'd be worth having. Diving, what exactly did you have in mind? I can think of many different versions of what diving could mean from being able to lower one's self faster in the water to being able to jump into a 1-deep pool of water without taking damage from x height, where x is determined by the skill level. Either way, I am in, but I still want to know XD At any rate, fighting off faster moving, aquatic mobs (which you should take a look at the mo' creatures alligator attack animation if you haven't seen it, it really does make you fear getting caught by them...) gives one clarity to think about these things, so I am glad it's a suggestion that's met with approval.
It's cool dude I tried to be passive about my reaction, but it too was a little aggressive so I am sorry too. Chalk it up to being too interested in having something to say but not having enough energy/patience left from the day at hand to be speaking (I too was a bit tired and reacted a bit more harshly than I wanted to). Bygones and all that, Cheers!
To close my reply here (these things seem to get longer and longer....), you can't fix everything that throws the game off for me with skills, but it goes a long way, so thank you. Actually the part that bugs me the most is the lack of furniture... Premiere prospect of minecraft, build a house, but you don't need furniture or a lot of painting options, you certainly don't need any statues or any decent lighting options to improve the look of your home and/or designate it a monster free zone and god forbid you have boat capable of not breaking when you run into a lillypad...... But my personal woes..... Anyways, thanks again!
As for the repair system, that seems intriguing. Players should be able to repair their worn out tools, but not like how Notch envisioned it. An anvil would make it easier, plus with an added repair system it'll be fun and hopefully even a little challenging.
As for the swimming skill, I have my doubts for that one. There's a reason why Bethesda never had a swimming skill in The Elder Scrolls games.
Already did And same with SolarPrizm
The best way I can think of to describe it is making a combat skill with sub skills? Kind of combat with swords (Combat - Swords, Combat - Axes, etc...) Where you create the skill class combat, and all levels feed into that value. However that would only give you minor bonuses to overall damage no matter what you're using. Whether you're fighting with fists, swords, axes, bows, whatever. I used a percent as the bonus value to avoid overpowering any one skill through use of the combat system. For example I don't think that if you have 1000 swords there should be a standard bonus of plus 5 hearts of damage, let's say from strength, that you can use when punching. Rather that if say you manage to get a 50% bonus, aka 5000 total combat points if we assume the standard bonus is 1 point = 0.01%, when you punch and take 1 heart the bonus would allow for 1 1/2 hearts actual damage, but that same bonus would allow for 4 1/2 (3+50%) for cutting with a stone sword. It was just a thought on how to even out the skills by adding combat skills for all potential weapons, while maintaining an overall level. Essentially, you could accomplish the same thing by adding a strength skill and having it level slower than other skills by fighting period, and giving an overall bonus bonus. Hell if you were going to do that, you might consider adding a faster bare fist block break... But I was just tossing around ideas on leveling the weapons skill playing field so to speak. I knew what I was writing but I tend to make analogies and concepts that are hard to grasp because I lack the appropriate communication skills to convey the thought process XD Sorry. As for how small the bonus should be... I wouldn't necessarily put a limit on it, but I'd avoid allowing any kind of ease on getting above a 50% bonus. I think skills tend to slow down at about 375 or so, therefore somewhere in the range of 0.134% per skill point or 1% for every 7 (7.5 technically) points. if you're going for standardized damage, I might say 1/2 heart bonus for every 100 points. But that's just my opinion.
I think that's an excellent idea. I think that it shouldn't be considered a skill, but more like a summation skill. A sort of "power level" if you will. The effects will be minor but noticeable if one has massive unarmed skill and a bad sword skill. The carryover will be noticeable but will not give experience to the player in any of its skills. These are all great suggestions! I understand you now, no worries. I think standardized damage is out of the question because of the increases in levels. It will definitely have some scalability with the weapon skill level average.
Question: What do you think it should be called? "Power level"? "Strength"? Or should this be added at all?
As for the anvil idea, you took exactly what I said perfectly. I think that the level of customization is severely underrated in mods, so I prefer the GUI option, though you might add the no block at all option. Just cause we don't think it's balanced doesn't mean that everyone will think that. Alternatively, you could allow for a tool, a smithing hammer let's say, that can be right clicked for use while holding it to enter the repair table, it's not a huge jump from the anvil idea and the durability would add balance. However that being said I am on the anvil side, rather than the hammer. But that's me...
I like that hammer idea. However, I realize many people will want to play this mod with other mods. I don't want to turn this into a Tekkit, Aether, or anything like that (even if I am exaggerating) by adding items and blocks and such. If I don't add material objects to the game, then people can add mods to combine with this one. I'm thinking that I will make it so that people can add their additions that can hook into a later API. I could even add bundles that I could make myself little additions that hook into, but can separate from the mod itself. Because of this, I am probably dropping adding an anvil to this mod.
GOAL: It is in my best interest to make this mod completely COMPATIBLE with as many mods as I can. Customization is also key in the respect that people can add mods to this one that hook into it. I do not think changing the experience blocks give you (or other experience giving things), adding new blocks or tools, or changing your skill levels manually, etc. should be implemented into this mod. I want to see people sharing their stats they earned legitimately with others. A sort of competition to be the better Minecraft player. That, in short, is one of my main goals.
As for swimming, even without the movement speed, which I think shouldn't be too hard to alter but then I can't say much, faster block breaking, longer underwater breath-holding it'd be worth having. Diving, what exactly did you have in mind? I can think of many different versions of what diving could mean from being able to lower one's self faster in the water to being able to jump into a 1-deep pool of water without taking damage from x height, where x is determined by the skill level. Either way, I am in, but I still want to know XD At any rate, fighting off faster moving, aquatic mobs (which you should take a look at the mo' creatures alligator attack animation if you haven't seen it, it really does make you fear getting caught by them...) gives one clarity to think about these things, so I am glad it's a suggestion that's met with approval.
I was thinking that if one pressed the sneak button, they could dive to the bottom of a pool of water and obviously they would be able to rise faster in water, too. I don't think I will implement the damage bit because that doesn't seem to have to do with swimming. I think I might have a look that is definitely a mod I want to provide compatibility for.
No problem!
I agree with the sub skills bit, but I don't think that is exactly what irish_vampyre was thinking of. What do you mean by doubts for the swimming skill? I think it is a great skill for Minecraft to have, since there seems to be SO much water. I can see why it may not have been appropriate for the Elder Scrolls games but I do not see why it wouldn't be appropriate for Minecraft. Let me know if I misunderstood, please; I may have missed something. Also please elaborate on your doubts for that skill please.
Hey guys, this mod's ETA has been extended slightly due to vacation but should be available soon! Also, other modders out there trying to turn out this gawd-awful-complicated mod, please keep in mind the competition in making it sooner is stressful enough and other people making the same thing doesn't exactly help. I am working with some other folks on this mod and it is taking a large amount of time, mainly because we have lives outside of modding . Almost all of my free time is spend on this thing and I would really appreciate if other modders could wait a few weeks to see my finished project. I promise, you will love it.
I know you all are anxious and I am working whole-hog on this thing despite the enormity of the project. Thank you for all of your support, and keep sending the suggestions in!
Cheers,
SolarPrizm
http://www.flickr.com/photos/76956928@N08/sets/72157631354048258/
More photos will be added later featuring the other parts such as other (already completed) skills in action.
ad infinitum!
Not much more can be said IMO. ^^Agree totally.
-Heros get remembered, but Legends never die-
Actually from a prgramming point of view, very nearly, all rpgs have a subskill system. As where the total value is implemented in subtle ways, but the values of the subset are simply considered skills. Most games that implement this feature simply don't advertise that the system works this way, because no one cares. Games that do implement these features in an open light usual refer to base values as 'Paths' and the subset are viewed as skills within a path. You may or may not gain bonuses for your total level in a path, which adds all subset values to form the value of the base, while the base value doesn't necessarily affect the subset values. A good example of a base value affecting subset values is Diablo II's synergy bonuses. As where the addition of the skills providing a bonus to a certain skill would collect into a total before factoring the incremental bonus. The subset of values would be the skill level of those skills giving a bonus to the target skill, the base value is the total of those skills, then a mathematical formula breaks down the base value into a bonus number and applies it to the target skill. It sounds confusing, but the truth is that it's a simple concept.
Whether or not it's a true skill is sort of irrelevant in my opinion, you could hide the value and it'd still do the same thing. Many games that do use it, as I mentioned above, do hide the value. I am glad that I explained it well enough to convey it. In words it really is tricky to explain, but the concept is pretty basic. Anyways, that having been said, I think if it were me giving it a name I'd call it strength, because it explains the bonus in a simple way that makes sense, but perhaps it's just me.
Exactly why I thought about the iron block thing. When you said you were adding an anvil block I was a little concerned because I used mo' creatures, and a bunch of the modloader author's extra block mods as well as an airship mod and a revolver mod (though I never use the revolver, it's nice to know I have the option in case I start coming across fire ogres more often....). It makes sense that you're avoiding adding blocks, so though the loss of the anvil sucks, I am still behind you. I do recommend still using the iron block rather than a simple right click system. The hammer idea was just an alternative to a stationary repair tool, and honestly, if it weren't an issue to add blocks I'd probably require an anvil and the use of a hammer on it to make it work. But again, blocks and other mods..... So I hear you and I am still right with you.
I figured you didn't mean the diving skill would be the damage reduction thing, particularly as athletics should cover that, but I wanted to make sure of what you meant by a diving skill and I agree with you. That would be a good addition. When I suggested it actually, I thought that to be term accurate swimming would have to simply be movement speed and diving would encompass breathe holding and block breaking. But the idea of separating skills based on simple linguistic characteristics seemed to be splitting hairs. I like the way you've got it going. I personally have no doubts about the swimming skill. Swimming is a massive part of minecraft. Some people build underwater homes or entrances to their homes. Some seeds have been known to put you on a single block of dirt in the middle of the ocean. Heck even my current home, I went to set up a house on a friend's small family server because I was being laid to siege by my enemies on the server, because of towny there's not a lot anyone can do but kill me and take my things, prevent me from expanding, etc... So when I moved away I went as far away as possible by the near-by ocean. I ended up on a single person sized island maybe 120x140 blocks that is over 1000 blocks away from any other significant land masses (except for a mushroom island that I found while mapping out the area, which was awesome....). I broke my boat in the swamp, where I was gathering lillypads for my farms. I then was forced to try to collect wood in the middle of the night with a turtle on my head to build a boat when I could have otherwise swam it. However because the trip is about 7 minutes by boat with a really good direction heading, that wasn't an option. Given I have McMMO on the server, but it brings up the no swimming issue. So I believe it's a good call... However, that may just be my opinion. You can always try a 'beta test' and see if people like it or not. (shrug)
Thanks I appreciate your appreciation
I think I see what you mean by subskills. Other than strength, you mean just subtle changes to influence of different things.
A way to start unifying the skills in little ways. Makes sense to me!
Awesome I hope to form that sort of link with everyone on here
Thanks for your suggestions on swimming. I am glad you brought up the skill. It is one of many great unique pieces that will make this mod complete. Let me know all of your crazy and wild ideas!
What do you guys think about the GUI in that picture set I have on Flickr? (link above)
Haha workin on it bro! In the mean time, community input has high value