I'm realizing that the nerf to Salis Mundus (no mana beans and it still takes 2 essences) is representing a major cost increase for Infusion Enchanting, enough that vanilla enchanting beats it for most use cases.
As mentioned in the original patch notes the recipe for Salis Mundus will be changing in the future. I'm still working out the exact recipe, but in short it will require more effort to craft, but will require fairly common ingredients.
Others have noted that the IF doesn't produce nuggets from clusters anymore. I don't think Azanor has said whether this is a bug (that will be fixed), or an intended nerf ("these offers may not be combined..."). I do hope it's the former, as I'm not using any of those industrial mods, and I need all the ore multiplication I can get.
This is a bug of sorts. I suspect it happens in worlds where forge needs to shuffle the item and block id's away from their default values. This usually happens when mods are removed or added after world creation.
In the next patch I am storing my smelting bonus list a bit differently which should take such changes into account.
On a related note - for me golems quite happilly overfill void jars, but I see some people reporting problems with this. Could it be related to the side thing?
Thanks for that clarification, Azanor! I'm looking forward to trying this out.
The golem on the Alchemical Furnace in my screen shot will dump excess terra into the void jar, but unfortunately he will fill all empty unlabelled empty jars first. It would be great if the pipe suction values applied to golems too. So golems would fill labelled Warded Jars, then labelled Void Jars, then unlabelled Warded Jars and finally unlabelled Void Jars (depending on distance I guess).
I have a list of bugs/features I need to write up, this is one off the list.
Thanks for that clarification, Azanor! I'm looking forward to trying this out.
The golem on the Alchemical Furnace in my screen shot will dump excess terra into the void jar, but unfortunately he will fill all empty unlabelled empty jars first. It would be great if the pipe suction values applied to golems too. So golems would fill labelled Warded Jars, then labelled Void Jars, then unlabelled Warded Jars and finally unlabelled Void Jars (depending on distance I guess).
I have confirmed that golems will draw essentia from Warded Jars when placed on top of the jar. This is REALLY, REALLY nice
I have also confirmed that the golem drawing from the jar will overfill the Void Jar, but if an unlabelled warded jar is closer than the void jar, it will start filling the empty jar instead. Edit: it seems this golem will fill any empty unlabelled jar within range in preference to the void jar.
I also confirmed that the golem on the Furnace will start filling a new unlabelled jar 5 blocks away, even though he is standing right next to the void jar. Very annoying.
There is a little inconsistency here, and it would be nice to have the golems work predictably.
This is a bug of sorts. I suspect it happens in worlds where forge needs to shuffle the item and block id's away from their default values. This usually happens when mods are removed or added after world creation.
I have confirmed Azanor's suspicions.
I installed an extra mod when I upgraded from 4.1.1.11 to 4.1.1.12, SimpleEnderPouch. This broke the nugget generation of the Furnace.
Simply renaming SimpleEnderPouch-MC1.7-1.1.0.jar to zSimpleEnderPouch-MC1.7-1.1.0.jar fixed the problem, and my furnace is working well again.
Thanks for all your help, it would have taken me ages to solve this without the clues!
So just a simple "Bug" I geuss is the right term. When using the infusion alter it cant pull from nearby nodes for resources. Makes me wonder what the point of them being able to make complex essentia is if you cant just put it in the same room like that.
So just a simple "Bug" I geuss is the right term. When using the infusion alter it cant pull from nearby nodes for resources. Makes me wonder what the point of them being able to make complex essentia is if you cant just put it in the same room like that.
Infusion altars use Essentia, not vis. Nodes solely deal in Vis, and there is a use of sorts for the compound aspects... Try doing a little more research in the Thaumaturgy tree and you might find out.
I have confirmed that golems will draw essentia from Warded Jars when placed on top of the jar. This is REALLY, REALLY nice
I have also confirmed that the golem drawing from the jar will overfill the Void Jar, but if an unlabelled warded jar is closer than the void jar, it will start filling the empty jar instead. Edit: it seems this golem will fill any empty unlabelled jar within range in preference to the void jar.
I also confirmed that the golem on the Furnace will start filling a new unlabelled jar 5 blocks away, even though he is standing right next to the void jar. Very annoying.
There is a little inconsistency here, and it would be nice to have the golems work predictably.
This is intended, though priorities could possibly be tweaked a little.
I'm thinking like this (highest to lowest):
non-jars
partially filled jar with label
empty jar with label
completely filled void jar with label
partially filled jar without label
empty jar without label
void jar without label
This is intended, though priorities could possibly be tweaked a little.
...
completely filled void jar with label
partially filled jar without label
I would probably prefer to top up partially filled, unlabelled jars first. This way I can have a bunch of unlabelled jars sitting around to catch overflow essentia, and with a few clicks of a phial, I can partially fill some jars, effectively allocating those jars to receive only a particular type of essentia. And when they are emptied (by infusion or mirror), they would automatically become available as "overflow" jars again.
But perhaps you have some other use case in mind.
I also wonder whether it is necessary to distinguish between filled, partially-filled and empty void jar. The intent of these jars is the same… to dispose of unwanted essentia when allocated storage jars are all filled.
So I would rank them:
non-jars
partially filled jar with label
empty jar with label
partially filled jar without label
any void jar with label
empty jar without label
any void jar without label
I would flip the completely filled void jar w label and the partially filled jar without label unless it would prevent using a golem to empty the destination of centrifuge in a setup like the one recently posted....
Rationale: If i have a pratially filled-non labelled jar that's connected to a golem, and since that golem is not going to start filling on its own, it's either something i placed by my own volition or something that got placed there by a tube, and it's quite possibly something i'd want to keep filled before a void jar voids something.
Also Azanor, i think that there should be different priorities for partially filled void jars, both labelled and unlabelled, right after the partially filled normal jars (i suppose this is the case, but... :D)
You have a point, but most of the time you want labeled things to fill first, don't you? The list I have above mimics the way tubes would fill the jars.
As for your second point, void jars are always considered last in the list of possible jars so, for example, between two jars, both labeled and partially filled - the non-void one will be filled first.
I have an issue with Directional Essentia Tubes allowing essentia to pass in both directions through the tube.
The far bellows operates all the time. The front one can be toggled with the switch.
If I have both bellows operating, the suction on the Buffer is 64 Untyped. It sucks the essentia out of the jar and fills the buffer.
If I turn off the front bellows, the suction on the Buffer changes to 32 Untyped. The Void Jar's suction is 48 Terra, and the essentia flows back into the jar.
I'm not sure which direction the essentia is supposed to pass (relative to the blue lines), but if I use my wand to toggle the tube so the blue lines are on the bottom, exactly the same behaviour is observed.
I expected the directional tube to block essentia flow in one direction only, so in this case what I would like to see is that when I turned off the front Bellows, the essentia cannot flow back into the jar and stays in the Buffer (or flows out to another jar).
This experiment is part of my grand plan to create an essentia storage facility which automatically fills any number of unlabelled jars, and automatically pulls the essentia back into a labelled jar which is within reach of a mirror or infusion altar. So far I cannot find a way to do this, with or without redstone. My idea here was to toggle the bellows every 5 seconds, so it would pull the essentia from a labelled jar into the Buffer, then let it flow back out into a series of unlabelled jars connected to pipes. I have no idea whether it would work, but I would love to experiment some more with it.
You have a point, but most of the time you want labeled things to fill first, don't you? The list I have above mimics the way tubes would fill the jars.
The thing here is… you're not really filling the void jar, you're disposing of essentia. And you would generally want to do that only after all jars related to that essentia are full, whether they are labelled or not.
I'm not happy myself, but you likely still need mana beans for some of the rarer aspects, notably Vinculum (no other renewable source). Ditto for Tempestas, if that actually has any recipes.
Is Vinculum actually used for anything? I can't bring any recipe to mind.
Hypothetical question:
What would happen were you to figure out a way to break a full warded jar of essentia?
Note I don't mean 'break' as in 'pick up'. I mean smash the jar. It's a hypothetical question because to the best of my knowledge, warded jars are unbreakable.
This is a bug of sorts. I suspect it happens in worlds where forge needs to shuffle the item and block id's away from their default values. This usually happens when mods are removed or added after world creation.
In the next patch I am storing my smelting bonus list a bit differently which should take such changes into account.
Uh oh... The problem is, I think I had other mods at first, but I removed them. Will nuking the config file fix the problem? Well, contra a commenter above, the IE is still no worse than the vanilla furnace, and uses a cheap essentia instead of fuel for nearly-free smooth stone, charcoal, bricks, etc.
For alchemy golems, I'd say that if a void jar for some aspect is in play, the golem should never start a new jar for that aspect. However, it should refill both partial jars, and labelled but empty jars, before filling or overfilling any void jar. That way if I want to save, say, another jar of Arbor, I can either transfer a phial's worth from the void jar to a new jar, or label an empty jar. Either way I get one more jar's worth of Arbor.
An unaspected (that is, empty, and unlabeled) void jar is a tricky case -- I would suggest the golem ignore it until there are no other options. Given there might be more than one such jar, that comes out to only if there are:
no partial jars (void or otherwise) with that aspect
Note I don't mean 'break' as in 'pick up'. I mean smash the jar. It's a hypothetical question because to the best of my knowledge, warded jars are unbreakable.
You can toss it into a crucible... (ETA: I actually did that for a recipe recently. A jar is just faintly cheaper than 8 phials.) In any case, smashing the jar would at least dump the essentia, presumably producing flux.
I did some CraftTweaker scripts for Mystical Agriculture. They fill in a couple of small gaps in MA, and also let you make or duplicate not only vanilla plants, but the blocks, plants and wood from Quark and Biomes O'Plenty. Also spawn eggs for most vanilla mobs! The scripts are here on Github.
Hypothetical question:
What would happen were you to figure out a way to break a full warded jar of essentia?
Note I don't mean 'break' as in 'pick up'. I mean smash the jar. It's a hypothetical question because to the best of my knowledge, warded jars are unbreakable.
I would imagine the essentia would just sit there in a puddle. If left alone long enough I would assume it'd break down into flux. Honestly, I've always wondered what happens to the essentia when the jar is emptied. All the essentia simply vanishes so perhaps the essentia turns to small amounts flux gas and disperses quickly.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Due to my snarky and sarcastic personality I can easily be seen as a jerk. If I've offended you in any way it was likely unintended.
As mentioned in the original patch notes the recipe for Salis Mundus will be changing in the future. I'm still working out the exact recipe, but in short it will require more effort to craft, but will require fairly common ingredients.
Wisp essences will not be required at all.
Then what will wisp essences be used for then? They only existed as an alternative to mana beans as far as I could tell. I've gotten to the point where finding an obsidian altar with wisp spawners is considered an achievement of progression so I can make salis mundus with it without having to destroy aura nodes.
Speaking of mana beans... is it odd that I've never really taken full advantage of them? Like the wisp essences, their only real usage for me has been creating salis mundus. I think that both items might end up feeling a bit useless unless you can find a purpose for them - and I don't think "melt them for aspects" or "farm them for knowledge" feel like valid uses to justify either's existence unless they can be used for something else.
Then what will wisp essences be used for then? They only existed as an alternative to mana beans as far as I could tell. I've gotten to the point where finding an obsidian altar with wisp spawners is considered an achievement of progression so I can make salis mundus with it without having to destroy aura nodes.
Aurum essentia.
Also, wisps spawn often enough in the nether now that hunting them down with boots of travel, a lightning focus, and a mob radar minimap is quite doable.
Hypothetical question:
What would happen were you to figure out a way to break a full warded jar of essentia?
Note I don't mean 'break' as in 'pick up'. I mean smash the jar. It's a hypothetical question because to the best of my knowledge, warded jars are unbreakable.
I've got a couple jars full of the liquid essence of entropy in my cabin. I'd love to see what happens if I could smash one on an enemy mob. That'll teach those witches to poison and slow me!
Ardha: The point of mana beans is that they provide some amounts of all the aspects, including the ones whose material sources are scarce and/or non-renewable. (Auram, Sano, Vinculum, Alienis...). The catch is all the piles of useless beans with common aspects.
So mana beans stay useful regardless of the ethereal essence's fate, but without Salis Mundus, it's not clear what's left for essences (besides primary source for Auram).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I did some CraftTweaker scripts for Mystical Agriculture. They fill in a couple of small gaps in MA, and also let you make or duplicate not only vanilla plants, but the blocks, plants and wood from Quark and Biomes O'Plenty. Also spawn eggs for most vanilla mobs! The scripts are here on Github.
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Curse PremiumAs mentioned in the original patch notes the recipe for Salis Mundus will be changing in the future. I'm still working out the exact recipe, but in short it will require more effort to craft, but will require fairly common ingredients.
Wisp essences will not be required at all.
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Curse PremiumThis is a bug of sorts. I suspect it happens in worlds where forge needs to shuffle the item and block id's away from their default values. This usually happens when mods are removed or added after world creation.
In the next patch I am storing my smelting bonus list a bit differently which should take such changes into account.
Thanks for that clarification, Azanor! I'm looking forward to trying this out.
The golem on the Alchemical Furnace in my screen shot will dump excess terra into the void jar, but unfortunately he will fill all empty unlabelled empty jars first. It would be great if the pipe suction values applied to golems too. So golems would fill labelled Warded Jars, then labelled Void Jars, then unlabelled Warded Jars and finally unlabelled Void Jars (depending on distance I guess).
I have a list of bugs/features I need to write up, this is one off the list.
KeepOnDigging.
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Curse PremiumThanks, this is exactly the sort of thing I need, but unfortunately it seems both logs you posted are the same.
I have confirmed that golems will draw essentia from Warded Jars when placed on top of the jar. This is REALLY, REALLY nice
I have also confirmed that the golem drawing from the jar will overfill the Void Jar, but if an unlabelled warded jar is closer than the void jar, it will start filling the empty jar instead. Edit: it seems this golem will fill any empty unlabelled jar within range in preference to the void jar.
I also confirmed that the golem on the Furnace will start filling a new unlabelled jar 5 blocks away, even though he is standing right next to the void jar. Very annoying.
There is a little inconsistency here, and it would be nice to have the golems work predictably.
I have confirmed Azanor's suspicions.
I installed an extra mod when I upgraded from 4.1.1.11 to 4.1.1.12, SimpleEnderPouch. This broke the nugget generation of the Furnace.
Simply renaming SimpleEnderPouch-MC1.7-1.1.0.jar to zSimpleEnderPouch-MC1.7-1.1.0.jar fixed the problem, and my furnace is working well again.
Thanks for all your help, it would have taken me ages to solve this without the clues!
KeepOnDigging.
Infusion altars use Essentia, not vis. Nodes solely deal in Vis, and there is a use of sorts for the compound aspects... Try doing a little more research in the Thaumaturgy tree and you might find out.
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Curse PremiumThis is intended, though priorities could possibly be tweaked a little.
I'm thinking like this (highest to lowest):
non-jars
partially filled jar with label
empty jar with label
completely filled void jar with label
partially filled jar without label
empty jar without label
void jar without label
I would probably prefer to top up partially filled, unlabelled jars first. This way I can have a bunch of unlabelled jars sitting around to catch overflow essentia, and with a few clicks of a phial, I can partially fill some jars, effectively allocating those jars to receive only a particular type of essentia. And when they are emptied (by infusion or mirror), they would automatically become available as "overflow" jars again.
But perhaps you have some other use case in mind.
I also wonder whether it is necessary to distinguish between filled, partially-filled and empty void jar. The intent of these jars is the same… to dispose of unwanted essentia when allocated storage jars are all filled.
So I would rank them:
non-jars
partially filled jar with label
empty jar with label
partially filled jar without label
any void jar with label
empty jar without label
any void jar without label
KeepOnDigging.
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Curse PremiumYou have a point, but most of the time you want labeled things to fill first, don't you? The list I have above mimics the way tubes would fill the jars.
As for your second point, void jars are always considered last in the list of possible jars so, for example, between two jars, both labeled and partially filled - the non-void one will be filled first.
I have an issue with Directional Essentia Tubes allowing essentia to pass in both directions through the tube.
The far bellows operates all the time. The front one can be toggled with the switch.
If I have both bellows operating, the suction on the Buffer is 64 Untyped. It sucks the essentia out of the jar and fills the buffer.
If I turn off the front bellows, the suction on the Buffer changes to 32 Untyped. The Void Jar's suction is 48 Terra, and the essentia flows back into the jar.
I'm not sure which direction the essentia is supposed to pass (relative to the blue lines), but if I use my wand to toggle the tube so the blue lines are on the bottom, exactly the same behaviour is observed.
I expected the directional tube to block essentia flow in one direction only, so in this case what I would like to see is that when I turned off the front Bellows, the essentia cannot flow back into the jar and stays in the Buffer (or flows out to another jar).
This experiment is part of my grand plan to create an essentia storage facility which automatically fills any number of unlabelled jars, and automatically pulls the essentia back into a labelled jar which is within reach of a mirror or infusion altar. So far I cannot find a way to do this, with or without redstone. My idea here was to toggle the bellows every 5 seconds, so it would pull the essentia from a labelled jar into the Buffer, then let it flow back out into a series of unlabelled jars connected to pipes. I have no idea whether it would work, but I would love to experiment some more with it.
KeepOnDigging.
The thing here is… you're not really filling the void jar, you're disposing of essentia. And you would generally want to do that only after all jars related to that essentia are full, whether they are labelled or not.
KoD.
What would happen were you to figure out a way to break a full warded jar of essentia?
Note I don't mean 'break' as in 'pick up'. I mean smash the jar. It's a hypothetical question because to the best of my knowledge, warded jars are unbreakable.
Uh oh... The problem is, I think I had other mods at first, but I removed them. Will nuking the config file fix the problem? Well, contra a commenter above, the IE is still no worse than the vanilla furnace, and uses a cheap essentia instead of fuel for nearly-free smooth stone, charcoal, bricks, etc.
For alchemy golems, I'd say that if a void jar for some aspect is in play, the golem should never start a new jar for that aspect. However, it should refill both partial jars, and labelled but empty jars, before filling or overfilling any void jar. That way if I want to save, say, another jar of Arbor, I can either transfer a phial's worth from the void jar to a new jar, or label an empty jar. Either way I get one more jar's worth of Arbor.
An unaspected (that is, empty, and unlabeled) void jar is a tricky case -- I would suggest the golem ignore it until there are no other options. Given there might be more than one such jar, that comes out to only if there are:
Guard Cores, at least. There might be other recipes.
You can toss it into a crucible... (ETA: I actually did that for a recipe recently. A jar is just faintly cheaper than 8 phials.) In any case, smashing the jar would at least dump the essentia, presumably producing flux.
I would imagine the essentia would just sit there in a puddle. If left alone long enough I would assume it'd break down into flux. Honestly, I've always wondered what happens to the essentia when the jar is emptied. All the essentia simply vanishes so perhaps the essentia turns to small amounts flux gas and disperses quickly.
Then what will wisp essences be used for then? They only existed as an alternative to mana beans as far as I could tell. I've gotten to the point where finding an obsidian altar with wisp spawners is considered an achievement of progression so I can make salis mundus with it without having to destroy aura nodes.
Speaking of mana beans... is it odd that I've never really taken full advantage of them? Like the wisp essences, their only real usage for me has been creating salis mundus. I think that both items might end up feeling a bit useless unless you can find a purpose for them - and I don't think "melt them for aspects" or "farm them for knowledge" feel like valid uses to justify either's existence unless they can be used for something else.
Aurum essentia.
Also, wisps spawn often enough in the nether now that hunting them down with boots of travel, a lightning focus, and a mob radar minimap is quite doable.
I've got a couple jars full of the liquid essence of entropy in my cabin. I'd love to see what happens if I could smash one on an enemy mob. That'll teach those witches to poison and slow me!
So mana beans stay useful regardless of the ethereal essence's fate, but without Salis Mundus, it's not clear what's left for essences (besides primary source for Auram).