Basically, me and him both agree that analog is not widely used, we are still considering if we are going to do more with it.
Analog is used quite a bit by the more advanced redstoners. What you see most is *simple* constructs using analog, such as reading if a container is empty/full. But in more advanced structures, such as evenly distributing contents amoungest inventories or pushing a specific amount of pistons arranged side by side, it comes in quite handy.
Not sure if you know what The Iron Trench is, but a short explaination is its an idea of moving villages around to arrange multiple villages directly beside each other for golem spawning. When I did my version of it, I used analog signals to extend/retract pistons so villages could be arranged as required.
This is where the analog inverted idea of mine came from. To invert an analog signal currently you have to do something like the following, which has a few major drawbacks
Blue Wool: Input (analog)
Red Wool: Output (analog)
The drawbacks:
1: Instead of simply having a gate that inverts the signal, this setup requires and addition signal source, in which the input is then subtracted from.
2: The input and output are at a 90 degree angle to each other, which may not seem like a big issue at first, but when trying to use the output signal for say, pushing a specific number of pistons from my example, it makes placement hard for either the input or output.
3: due to comparators being able to accept signal-B from either side, you can't 'wrap' the dust around the comparator to sort of straighten the signal line for use.
Edit - After thoughts:
I think a big reason why analog isn't as widely used as its counter part is (1) its new tech so people are still trying to understand it and (2) circuits such as signal multiplers and inverters for analog signals are either huge or cumbersome to use. Isn't that what RP and now P:R are intended to alleviate?
Edit#2 - More examples of where analog signals are replacing its counterpart:
Redstone computers - Full hex-bit adders; faster and smaller than the single bit carry-over adders.
Time/weather sensors. I know there's already a light & Rain sensor in PR, but using a daylight sensor setup, you can tell tell what time it is, or what type of weather is currently happening(sunny, rain, thunderstorm)
Analog is used quite a bit by the more advanced redstoners. What you see most is *simple* constructs using analog, such as reading if a container is empty/full. But in more advanced structures, such as evenly distributing contents amoungest inventories or pushing a specific amount of pistons arranged side by side, it comes in quite handy.
Not sure if you know what The Iron Trench is, but a short explaination is its an idea of moving villages around to arrange multiple villages directly beside each other for golem spawning. When I did my version of it, I used analog signals to extend/retract pistons so villages could be arranged as required.
This is where the analog inverted idea of mine came from. To invert an analog signal currently you have to do something like the following, which has a few major drawbacks
Blue Wool: Input (analog)
Red Wool: Output (analog)
The drawbacks:
1: Instead of simply having a gate that inverts the signal, this setup requires and addition signal source, in which the input is then subtracted from.
2: The input and output are at a 90 degree angle to each other, which may not seem like a big issue at first, but when trying to use the output signal for say, pushing a specific number of pistons from my example, it makes placement hard for either the input or output.
3: due to comparators being able to accept signal-B from either side, you can't 'wrap' the dust around the comparator to sort of straighten the signal line for use.
Edit - After thoughts:
I think a big reason why analog isn't as widely used as its counter part is (1) its new tech so people are still trying to understand it and (2) circuits such as signal multiplers and inverters for analog signals are either huge or cumbersome to use. Isn't that what RP and now P:R are intended to alleviate?
Lets just say that we did really like the analog system and wanted to add more analog gates. Even then, this doesn't follow the gate policy, it can clearly be done with 3 or less gates.
I do not use analog nor do i have a lot of experience with redstone to be fair i just recently got into minecraft. but i would imagine that the reason there is not a huge application for analog is because it is so new. the first block to really take advantage of it is the comparator and it has been around how long? Mr_TJP and Chikenbones if you provide the tools the minecraft community will eventually find a way to take advantage of them (a few people already have).
this mod is currently the best choice for any redstone project and i would love to see it stay that way.
Lets just say that we did really like the analog system and wanted to add more analog gates. Even then, this doesn't follow the gate policy, it can clearly be done with 3 or less gates.
I apologize ahead of time if the following comes off crass or agurmentative; it is not intended to be. I am merely giving my thoughts on the subject at hand, and to hopefully explain where analog is useful.
I feel you have missed my point. I wasn't trying to push my analog suggestion further, but was merely using it as an example to explain why I feel analog signals aren't used more widely. The point was simply that, currently, with vanilla(or even P:R) minecraft, many 'basic' analog circuits are either huge or awkward to work with.
--
Though, I was under the impression from CB's post explaining feature requests that the '3 gate' statement was a rule of thumb not a written-in-stone law. I mean, his example was an RS latch, which he admits can be done with just 2 gates. I understand you don't want(nor should) bloat your mod with EVERY IMAGINABLE circuit users can think up, but I believe that if there's solid reasoning behind why a circuit should be included, it's 'number of gates' shouldn't automatically disqualify it for inclusion. Other things such as size, delay, and input-output positioning when done in vanilla vs. suggestion should also be considered.
Which begs the question, what is a gate? Is it ONLY entites that have the stone base or a redstone torch? Is it any logic that alters the input signal as it passes to the output? Is it any logic or transit between the input and output?
To make my point, I could argue that the required torch/lever is a gate, the 2 redstone dust are a gate as they are (1) required, (2) their position is static in relation to the gate and (3) they alter the input as it passes through the gate, then the comparator being another. That's 3 gates, which puts my suggestion at the threshold of the 3-gate 'rule'.
To make my point, I could argue that the required torch/lever is a gate, the 2 redstone dust are a gate as they are (1) required and (2) their position is static in relation to the gate, then the comparator being another. That's 3 gates, which puts my suggestion at the threshold of the 3-gate 'rule.
I understand you were just making conversation.
However, you can't really say that. Because if you could, then even CB's RS latch example needs wires and such. And actually, CB meant 2 NORs and 2 NOTs. Plus, even with that, you can't have the nice feedback buffer mode available in the gate.
Normally, you would have to use one statecell for each wire. This could be done at the in- or outputs (or in the middle like this ---|||---(vertical lines are the statecells + bundled/colored cables on each side)).
But what if your setup has already used up the required space for 16 statecells? ... Definitely saving alot of space.
3. Function
Just like the regular statecell, with these additions:
one button in the gui, which changes the color when clicked (all 16)
--> each color saves its own timing values
another button that disables the separate timing adjustment, so there would be just one timing for all the (still separate) lines
all four sides need bundled in-/output, of course
Thanks for reading my suggestion
I'm not entirely sure what the advantage of this, when does one need 16 state cells? Also, how what would the gate render like?
Analog is used quite a bit by the more advanced redstoners. What you see most is *simple* constructs using analog, such as reading if a container is empty/full. But in more advanced structures, such as evenly distributing contents amoungest inventories or pushing a specific amount of pistons arranged side by side, it comes in quite handy.
Not sure if you know what The Iron Trench is, but a short explaination is its an idea of moving villages around to arrange multiple villages directly beside each other for golem spawning. When I did my version of it, I used analog signals to extend/retract pistons so villages could be arranged as required.
This is where the analog inverted idea of mine came from. To invert an analog signal currently you have to do something like the following, which has a few major drawbacks
Blue Wool: Input (analog)
Red Wool: Output (analog)
The drawbacks:
1: Instead of simply having a gate that inverts the signal, this setup requires and addition signal source, in which the input is then subtracted from.
2: The input and output are at a 90 degree angle to each other, which may not seem like a big issue at first, but when trying to use the output signal for say, pushing a specific number of pistons from my example, it makes placement hard for either the input or output.
3: due to comparators being able to accept signal-B from either side, you can't 'wrap' the dust around the comparator to sort of straighten the signal line for use.
Edit - After thoughts:
I think a big reason why analog isn't as widely used as its counter part is (1) its new tech so people are still trying to understand it and (2) circuits such as signal multiplers and inverters for analog signals are either huge or cumbersome to use. Isn't that what RP and now P:R are intended to alleviate?
Edit#2 - More examples of where analog signals are replacing its counterpart:
Redstone computers - Full hex-bit adders; faster and smaller than the single bit carry-over adders.
Time/weather sensors. I know there's already a light & Rain sensor in PR, but using a daylight sensor setup, you can tell tell what time it is, or what type of weather is currently happening(sunny, rain, thunderstorm)
The reason I don't see the merit in analog, is that it serves no function. As a signal, it's nigh completely useless in vanilla due to the redstone falloff. PR kinda helps this, by giving you 17 blocks distance per analog signal drop, but it's still not something I would want to be taking into consideration when building. As an inventory sensor, there are so many mods that do inventory management seriously, that I can't see why anyone would want to do it with vanilla redstone (which you're not if you're using this mod anyway).
If you seriously want analog, I hear that MFR is rather good this time of year. It's wires even have no signal falloff.
Actually, this applies to all 3. Read what CB posted about analog power. Its about 2 posts above. Basically, me and him both agree that analog is not widely used, we are still considering if we are going to do more with it.
I know your still just considering it but I came up with one last analog related one.
Accumulator:
An accumulator increases at a rate of A per second where A is defined in the GUI and is constantly outputting B which is what A is adding to. B's maximum value is the maximum pulse strength. When powered from the back this will activate the Accumulator, When powered from the side at any time it will hold the pulse strength at what it is (This does not mean it turns on the Accumulator or turns it off). This means I can power the Accumulator it will go up from 0 Pulse Strength to 14 assuming I don't set A to 0 and will stay at 14 when it hits it even if its not being held, if it gets held at 8 for example it will stay at 8 until turned off. Note: You can set the value it starts at as well.
Btw I think this sounds jumbled tell me if you want me to rephrase it.
Also you should check out Reika's Expanded Redstone mod, Maybe ask if you can merge it into PR.
Main Reasons I suggested this:
Block Update Detector
Item Effector (It really is just a Deployer)
Proximity Detector
Signal Driver
Also other Suggestions:
-Backpacks can be Renamed using the Anvil since they revert after using them.
-Shift Right clicking on an Inventory will dump as many items (In order) as possible from the bag into the inventory allowing you to dump whole bags out into chests.
Also, a question, did you consider re-implementing Nikolite, and using ex-blulectric cables for MJ transfer, and Battery box as a smaller alternative for Redstone Energy Cell? I for one play with this mod and forestry without Buildcraft, and could really use some light cabling and battery boxes without adding machine mods
On one hand this looks amazing (visually even better than the original perhaps).
On the other hadn I am getting slightly annoyed with duplicates in my mod collection.
Way too many random gems ( Peridot x2, Ruby x2, Saphire x2, Diamonds, Emeralds, the other 4 BoP gems, and one more apatite from forestry.)
That one would be easily fixable (I would just need to get rid of BoP). I would surely miss the Biomes but most importantly I wouldn't have any way to replaces BoP's Ender Dragonrespawn mechanic.
The other thing that slightly annoys me is that I would add another power system. Next to Buildcraft, Industrialcraft (after the recent changes it take the place of TE again), AE power (even though that one goes nicely with others) and various magical power systems, it is getting crowded.
I would really beg you to make your own power system modular and not force anybody to use it, and instead allow useage of Buildcraft or IC2 power instead.
P:R will be using MJ (Buildcraft power), also ores will be added to ore dictionary soon or so I hear, so you won't have duplicates
Not sure if you know what The Iron Trench is, but a short explaination is its an idea of moving villages around to arrange multiple villages directly beside each other for golem spawning. When I did my version of it, I used analog signals to extend/retract pistons so villages could be arranged as required.
This is where the analog inverted idea of mine came from. To invert an analog signal currently you have to do something like the following, which has a few major drawbacks
Blue Wool: Input (analog)
Red Wool: Output (analog)
The drawbacks:
1: Instead of simply having a gate that inverts the signal, this setup requires and addition signal source, in which the input is then subtracted from.
2: The input and output are at a 90 degree angle to each other, which may not seem like a big issue at first, but when trying to use the output signal for say, pushing a specific number of pistons from my example, it makes placement hard for either the input or output.
3: due to comparators being able to accept signal-B from either side, you can't 'wrap' the dust around the comparator to sort of straighten the signal line for use.
Edit - After thoughts:
I think a big reason why analog isn't as widely used as its counter part is (1) its new tech so people are still trying to understand it and (2) circuits such as signal multiplers and inverters for analog signals are either huge or cumbersome to use. Isn't that what RP and now P:R are intended to alleviate?
Edit#2 - More examples of where analog signals are replacing its counterpart:
Redstone computers - Full hex-bit adders; faster and smaller than the single bit carry-over adders.
Time/weather sensors. I know there's already a light & Rain sensor in PR, but using a daylight sensor setup, you can tell tell what time it is, or what type of weather is currently happening(sunny, rain, thunderstorm)
Lets just say that we did really like the analog system and wanted to add more analog gates. Even then, this doesn't follow the gate policy, it can clearly be done with 3 or less gates.
this mod is currently the best choice for any redstone project and i would love to see it stay that way.
I feel you have missed my point. I wasn't trying to push my analog suggestion further, but was merely using it as an example to explain why I feel analog signals aren't used more widely. The point was simply that, currently, with vanilla(or even P:R) minecraft, many 'basic' analog circuits are either huge or awkward to work with.
--
Though, I was under the impression from CB's post explaining feature requests that the '3 gate' statement was a rule of thumb not a written-in-stone law. I mean, his example was an RS latch, which he admits can be done with just 2 gates. I understand you don't want(nor should) bloat your mod with EVERY IMAGINABLE circuit users can think up, but I believe that if there's solid reasoning behind why a circuit should be included, it's 'number of gates' shouldn't automatically disqualify it for inclusion. Other things such as size, delay, and input-output positioning when done in vanilla vs. suggestion should also be considered.
Which begs the question, what is a gate? Is it ONLY entites that have the stone base or a redstone torch? Is it any logic that alters the input signal as it passes to the output? Is it any logic or transit between the input and output?
To make my point, I could argue that the required torch/lever is a gate, the 2 redstone dust are a gate as they are (1) required, (2) their position is static in relation to the gate and (3) they alter the input as it passes through the gate, then the comparator being another. That's 3 gates, which puts my suggestion at the threshold of the 3-gate 'rule'.
I understand you were just making conversation.
However, you can't really say that. Because if you could, then even CB's RS latch example needs wires and such. And actually, CB meant 2 NORs and 2 NOTs. Plus, even with that, you can't have the nice feedback buffer mode available in the gate.
I'm not entirely sure what the advantage of this, when does one need 16 state cells? Also, how what would the gate render like?
The reason I don't see the merit in analog, is that it serves no function. As a signal, it's nigh completely useless in vanilla due to the redstone falloff. PR kinda helps this, by giving you 17 blocks distance per analog signal drop, but it's still not something I would want to be taking into consideration when building. As an inventory sensor, there are so many mods that do inventory management seriously, that I can't see why anyone would want to do it with vanilla redstone (which you're not if you're using this mod anyway).
If you seriously want analog, I hear that MFR is rather good this time of year. It's wires even have no signal falloff.
I know your still just considering it but I came up with one last analog related one.
Accumulator:
An accumulator increases at a rate of A per second where A is defined in the GUI and is constantly outputting B which is what A is adding to. B's maximum value is the maximum pulse strength. When powered from the back this will activate the Accumulator, When powered from the side at any time it will hold the pulse strength at what it is (This does not mean it turns on the Accumulator or turns it off). This means I can power the Accumulator it will go up from 0 Pulse Strength to 14 assuming I don't set A to 0 and will stay at 14 when it hits it even if its not being held, if it gets held at 8 for example it will stay at 8 until turned off. Note: You can set the value it starts at as well.
Btw I think this sounds jumbled tell me if you want me to rephrase it.
Also you should check out Reika's Expanded Redstone mod, Maybe ask if you can merge it into PR.
I see...I won't have any problems if the package adds no new ores.
Anyway, thanks to this MOD and its authors.
Meh.
LOL! Best answer I've ever seen. People sure gripe a lot in this thread, but I prefer the honesty.
Perhaps in the future, the CC devs will code in some interactions, but either way, it's on CC's side.
Main Reasons I suggested this:
Block Update Detector
Item Effector (It really is just a Deployer)
Proximity Detector
Signal Driver
Also other Suggestions:
-Backpacks can be Renamed using the Anvil since they revert after using them.
-Shift Right clicking on an Inventory will dump as many items (In order) as possible from the bag into the inventory allowing you to dump whole bags out into chests.
Also, a question, did you consider re-implementing Nikolite, and using ex-blulectric cables for MJ transfer, and Battery box as a smaller alternative for Redstone Energy Cell? I for one play with this mod and forestry without Buildcraft, and could really use some light cabling and battery boxes without adding machine mods
P:R will be using MJ (Buildcraft power), also ores will be added to ore dictionary soon or so I hear, so you won't have duplicates