Ok so you made a suggestion. So far the mod author disagrees and much of the community has responded with the knee jerk , "Oh look same old suggestions, try something original" Frankly if you hd read all the pages you would have seen that the first 1-2 times a suggestion was made it was met with polite criticism for the most part. Responses started getting more abrupt as the suggestion was made again and again. Even though some of your suggestions pertain to reasonably new stuff, they are still suggestions that have been made repeatedly in the last few weeks. Nagging is annoying even when coming from a new person.
Your opinion on the manners of this corner of the internet are somewhat faulty . You will find if you go to foreign countries that different cultures have different opinions on manners and acceptable behaviors. What is polite in one country might be a deadly insult in another. You have stumbled upon a corner of the internet where people are very blunt and do not bother to use the socially acceptable form of lying known as tact. If this causes feelings to get a little trampled most of us do not care. Adults should be able to take honesty without a soft candy coated shell of tact. The fact that many can't is a failure of society. Frankly I and I assume many others here would rather be told our ideas suck bluntly then have others tip toe and beat around the bushes sparing our "feelings"
Incredibly blunt untactful comments are in fact good manners in this corner of the internet. We are also not entirely concerned with feelings. Many of us frankly don't care about the feelings of perfect strangers. You would hardly go to a foreign country and tell them their manners are wrong based on your home country. I recommend you treat this area as a foreign country and stop trying to apply the rules of "polite behavior" used elsewhere.
Don't let these people get you down Maximo Artorio. The official BTW forums are marked by people like these two who think that shielding Flowerchild from crticism trumps any need to be polite, or helpful, or constructive. They've spilled over to this forum because the offical ones are down. They'll go away when their offical forums come back up.
Jadedcat is wrong about what constitutes good manners here. He's being unecessarily rude, regardless of what culture judges him.
Flowerchild, are the rest of us allowed to report RP2 discussion as spam?
EDIT: If you don't like how Flowerchild handles things, then don't make yourself a brand-new account and proceed to tell someone how they should whine as much as they feel like. And then you claim to know what constitutes what good manners here?
Have you seen how some of the forge developers act? They act almost exactly like FC when it comes to idiots who blame them for something going wrong.
Now look at how Mojang acts. They take a lot of suggestions. Meanwhile, the modAPI slowly dies as flowerpots are added to the game.
So, suggestions can be very, very bad for actual gameplay.
Maybe you guys should not answer for FlowerChild and just let him decide if an idea is stupid. I was laughing pretty hard at that stuff. Sure, feel free to tell the suggestee if you think his/her ideas are dumb, if you want. I see a lot of people trying to speak for FlowerChild like he isn't a person who doesn't speak for himself. I've seen him post very frequently in the past 2 days I've had an account here. Seems a bit rude to try to put words in his mouth.
I just popped in to thank the kind soul who mentioned BTW works with MCPatcher, but only with HD Textures and HD Fonts. Alas, I didn't take note of your username while scanning the thread, and I'm not sure how many pages back it is now. You just saved me a big headache though. Many thanks! =]
Maybe you guys should not answer for FlowerChild and just let him decide if an idea is stupid. I was laughing pretty hard at that stuff. Sure, feel free to tell the suggestee if you think his/her ideas are dumb, if you want. I see a lot of people trying to speak for FlowerChild like he isn't a person who doesn't speak for himself. I've seen him post very frequently in the past 2 days I've had an account here. Seems a bit rude to try to put words in his mouth.
I just popped in to thank the kind soul who mentioned BTW works with MCPatcher, but only with HD Textures and HD Fonts. Alas, I didn't take note of your username while scanning the thread, and I'm not sure how many pages back it is now. You just saved me a big headache though. Many thanks! =]
Well, the beds thing has been discussed hundreds of times. So has animal power. Full automation is higher tier, so chicken breeding isn't.
And if these were posted on the BTW forums, they would've gotten him instantly banned. Why? Well, there's a suggestions thread in the suggestions forum by FC, that says, "Suggestion: Stop posting suggestions."
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
70% of people have signatures that try and boost their superiority complexes. Post this if you're a hypocrite.
Not having the BTW forums around is making me realize just how much I lurk that forum
Just wanted to stop by and let you know FC that I absolutely love the new hardcore changes. I rarely get to play these days - in fact, it seems you manage a new version by the next time I get to play. So sometimes its tough experiencing all the new features, but of what I've seen I am loving. The F3 nerf is much appreciated. I didn't even realize I used that thing until it was gone, haha. And stakes, oh-my-science, stakes. I use those things too much.
Anyway, thanks FC! I need to find time to post on the forums when they come back up; I miss everyone there.
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All the discussion about bad suggestions and discussion about discussion about bad suggestions aside, there was a point made that I think got drowned out in all that.
Chickens being made to only lay eggs after eating, is a step towards devaluing eggs as a food source. I'm impartial to that, but flip it on its ear for a moment. This raises the value of beef and pork, the best type of food, and arguably the easiest to aquire. For this reason, hardcore chickens is a bad move. Well, not really. Just unfinished. Something to devalue meat and make lesser foods a better option for early game would even things out. I don't have any specifics in mind though, I'm not a designer.
Ok, let me explain something here to hopefully clear this up:
Making suggestions to someone that hasn't asked for them is rude. It's called "unsolicited advice", and generally, if you walk up to someone on the street and do it, they will likely get pissed.
I don't know you, yet you decided that you were going to offer me unsolicited advice. Thus, the conversation started with you doing something rude to begin with. I'm not sure why you've come to believe that everyone wants your opinion, but if you'd like to get along with people in life, I'd recommend not wandering around saying things like "Hi! You know that your coat would be nicer if it were blue?"
Secondly, the suggestions you made were so bad, that if I were to implement them, the mod would effectively be ruined. I don't take kindly to someone trying to ruin the year and a half of work I put into the mod.
In other words man, you behaved quite rudely towards me, and I responded in kind. I never asked for your ideas, I don't want them, and they suck.
Chickens being made to only lay eggs after eating, is a step towards devaluing eggs as a food source. I'm impartial to that, but flip it on its ear for a moment. This raises the value of beef and pork, the best type of food, and arguably the easiest to aquire. For this reason, hardcore chickens is a bad move. Well, not really. Just unfinished. Something to devalue meat and make lesser foods a better option for early game would even things out. I don't have any specifics in mind though, I'm not a designer.
What's wrong with encouraging beef and pork as a primary early-game food source? It's easy to aquire and recreate. I value chickens more for their feathers (for use in arrows) than as a food source. The extra food is just a bonus. Besides, there's so many possible sources of food in the game, I don't think making eggs less useful as a food impacts gameplay in any meaningful way.
Don't let these people get you down Maximo Artorio. The official BTW forums are marked by people like these two who think that shielding Flowerchild from crticism trumps any need to be polite, or helpful, or constructive. They've spilled over to this forum because the offical ones are down. They'll go away when their offical forums come back up.
Jadedcat is wrong about what constitutes good manners here. He's being unecessarily rude, regardless of what culture judges him.
Why does anyone actually think that FC needs shielding from criticism? If anything, people are protecting the suggestees from getting a castigating rebuke from FC himself.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
70% of people have signatures that try and boost their superiority complexes. Post this if you're a hypocrite.
What's wrong with encouraging beef and pork as a primary early-game food source? It's easy to aquire and recreate. I value chickens more for their feathers (for use in arrows) than as a food source. The extra food is just a bonus. Besides, there's so many possible sources of food in the game, I don't think making eggs less useful as a food impacts gameplay in any meaningful way.
Yeah, I largely agree with you here. Balancing food sources is just not in any way a priority for me given their incredible abundance in MC, and I've focused more on making chickens valuable with regards to their feathers through changes like the Rotted Arrows.
You'll notice that most of the balancing work I've done with regards to animals has very little to do with food, and has been more along the lines of: cows are for leather, pigs are for Tallow, and chickens are for feathers.
I still need to take care of sheep mind you, as at present their role is almost entirely decorative through wool. A big problem there IMO is spider silk to wool, which is already slated for my chopping block in the near future. Ultimately, it makes sheep entirely redundant late game, and doesn't make a whole lot of intuitive sense to begin with.
Separating the two would allow me to design much clearer uses for both spiders and sheep into the tech tree.
Yeah, I largely agree with you here. Balancing food sources is just not in any way a priority for me given their incredible abundance in MC, and I've focused more on making chickens valuable with regards to their feathers through changes like the Rotted Arrows.
You'll notice that most of the balancing work I've done with regards to animals has very little to do with food, and has been more along the lines of: cows are for leather, pigs are for Tallow, and chickens are for feathers.
I still need to take care of sheep mind you, as at present their role is almost entirely decorative through wool. A big problem their IMO is spider silk to wool, which is already slated for my chopping block in the near future. Ultimately, it makes sheep entirely redundant late game, and doesn't make a whole lot of intuitive sense to begin with.
Separating the two would allow me to design much clearer uses for both spiders and sheep into the tech tree.
I gotta say I love the hardcore sheep. Getting all the colours was an awesome project, and I pretty never use wool for anything. I've started it again on my single player world, just because it's a fun aspect of the game now. I still have no plans to ever do anythign with wool. (Until you add something that is. )
I still have no plans to ever do anythign with wool. (Until you add something that is. )
Yeah...that's kinda the problem. Right now we have a cool system for acquiring wool and not much incentive to use it
As you'll notice, many of my designs for the mod tend to operate in two stages. There's the system itself, and then there's addressing player motivation to use it. This of course applies to vMC systems as well, like my changes to beds and F3 acting to encourage minecart usage.
Having a cool system is all well and good, but I find many mods (or even vMC features) focus way too much on the way something works rather than why someone would use it. I consider providing such motivation a big part of what I do, and you'll notice I tend to sink a lot of time into making adjustments here and there to do so.
The fan boy in me is already drooling. I don't suppose you'll share any of your ideas on what each thing would be used for?
Nah, as that would only elicit suggestions
It's a big part of why I don't discuss things too much before releasing them, even if I've turned that into a pleasant "surprise" mechanism with time. I really do hate receiving suggestions, and suggestions about unreleased features based on partial information are the worst of all.
You can already see some of my work in that direction though with the Stakes. I've seen comments lately about people suddenly wanting to hold onto string because they want to use them with Stakes, and while I don't think that's enough, I do think it's a step in the right direction.
Anyways, this likely won't happen for awhile yet. I'm pushing in many different directions simultaneously right now, design-wise.
Well, since there's no BTW forums for now, let's talk here ^^
I was very surprised to see that, in the latest snapshot, they added an Anvil, and made it affected by gravity like sand. I thought it was not possible to have a GUI for a block and make it act like sand ?
That's not a problem with GUI's man, it's a problem with Tile Entities. Most blocks with a GUI have a tile ent, but there are exceptions like the crafting table, which have none.
Generally, you only require a tile ent for a persistent inventory that hangs around after the GUI is closed (or for any other use that requires more data than 4 bits). So, for something like a crafting table, or I assume Mojang's anvil, it's not needed.
I assume this is also the reason why Mojang decided to not allow blocks with inventories to be pushed by pistons.
We can still speculate, not "suggest" mind you, but guessing where FC might take sheep/wool and spider/string mechanics is interesting. For example, string is used for creating three things; fishing rods, bows, and wool blocks. So far, all of which could be easily placed in other tech trees or are simply redundant. Fishing rods and bows are the only two things worth making from string and I get the feeling that hemp fibres could make a natural substitute in both recipies. It's likely that the string-to-wool recipie was included as a way for Notch to give excess string a continued purpose but if that's true, then that's just lazy gameplay design. All-in-all, string really has very little purpose in the game right now.
Negative aspects aside, what makes string interesting? It's potentially much stronger than hemp fibres. It also might have sticky properties. Maybe it can be boiled down into a variety of glue? That would only reduce the value of slimes and slimeballs however. It's a tricky problem and one I don't have an answer for.
Yeah, I largely agree with you here. Balancing food sources is just not in any way a priority for me given their incredible abundance in MC, and I've focused more on making chickens valuable with regards to their feathers through changes like the Rotted Arrows.
You'll notice that most of the balancing work I've done with regards to animals has very little to do with food, and has been more along the lines of: cows are for leather, pigs are for Tallow, and chickens are for feathers.
I still need to take care of sheep mind you, as at present their role is almost entirely decorative through wool. A big problem there IMO is spider silk to wool, which is already slated for my chopping block in the near future. Ultimately, it makes sheep entirely redundant late game, and doesn't make a whole lot of intuitive sense to begin with.
Separating the two would allow me to design much clearer uses for both spiders and sheep into the tech tree.
Hm.... You're blowing my mind a bit here... I can't imagine a non-aesthetic motivation for getting colored wool...
As to the food point I suppose that makes sense. If you're going to throw in the towel on making food interesting that the relative viability of chicken vs beef in the early game doesn't matter at all.
the following isn't a suggestion for change, just an impression from a new player.
i like the hardcore chickens much, much more than the vanilla ones. i like that i have to feed them to get eggs, and i like eggs as food (it has always annoyed me that i couldn't cook vanilla eggs). i got off to a slow start because i only had one chicken but i really bonded with louise; it was fun to build the small flock.
but. after being extremely busy establishing wheat/hemp farms and livestock breeding (everything is still manual because that's where my game character's mind is at for now; he doesn't know that much yet), i find that i am not using the chickens at all, because i have plenty of food from the pigs and cows (and the mushroom cave), and in comparison the chickens are a pain because i feed them and then they take their sweet time to lay eggs, and i am always away because watching chickens is just not all that exciting, and louise is a serial cheater who doesn't really love me. i know i could automate, and some time down the road i will. i do not use the wiki, because i get a lot of enjoyment out of figuring out how to build things myself. but as it stands, there is no need to automate my chicken farm, because i have a surplus of food from other sources.
i am a lot more interested in dynamic balance than in things being easy or hard per se. IMO breeding of pigs and cows is not in balance with hardcore chickens. pigs/cows don't take as long to pop out offspring as the chickens do with their eggs, and those are not even guaranteed offspring, while pigs/cows/sheep always give instant birth to a healthy baby, which grows up insanely fast. it'd be better if they gestated for a while and had the occasional miscarriage (which might even kill the one popping out the kid). they also drop a lot of food at once, and it's high-protein food (gives more health than eggs). oh, and sheep regrow their wool too fast -- i have 16 sheep and by the time i've shorn them all, at least one has already regrown (these are vanilla MC issues, of course).
as soon as one has a full field (9x9 with 1 water in the middle) of wheat and hemp each, and a corral of pigs and cows, one seems set for life, even without automation. hemp takes a while to get started, but then it'll regrow from ... 8th? stage in no time flat. i keep pondering how to stretch that out. maybe i shouldn't allow hemp to regrow, but pretend it has to be reseeded -- that would also encourage me to work on automation.
now that i've figured out how to build a windmill, i won't even get hungry that quickly -- i really liked how much working the hand crank drained my energy. almost as bad as real life ;).
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Curse PremiumOk so you made a suggestion. So far the mod author disagrees and much of the community has responded with the knee jerk , "Oh look same old suggestions, try something original" Frankly if you hd read all the pages you would have seen that the first 1-2 times a suggestion was made it was met with polite criticism for the most part. Responses started getting more abrupt as the suggestion was made again and again. Even though some of your suggestions pertain to reasonably new stuff, they are still suggestions that have been made repeatedly in the last few weeks. Nagging is annoying even when coming from a new person.
Your opinion on the manners of this corner of the internet are somewhat faulty . You will find if you go to foreign countries that different cultures have different opinions on manners and acceptable behaviors. What is polite in one country might be a deadly insult in another. You have stumbled upon a corner of the internet where people are very blunt and do not bother to use the socially acceptable form of lying known as tact. If this causes feelings to get a little trampled most of us do not care. Adults should be able to take honesty without a soft candy coated shell of tact. The fact that many can't is a failure of society. Frankly I and I assume many others here would rather be told our ideas suck bluntly then have others tip toe and beat around the bushes sparing our "feelings"
Incredibly blunt untactful comments are in fact good manners in this corner of the internet. We are also not entirely concerned with feelings. Many of us frankly don't care about the feelings of perfect strangers. You would hardly go to a foreign country and tell them their manners are wrong based on your home country. I recommend you treat this area as a foreign country and stop trying to apply the rules of "polite behavior" used elsewhere.
Jadedcat is wrong about what constitutes good manners here. He's being unecessarily rude, regardless of what culture judges him.
EDIT: If you don't like how Flowerchild handles things, then don't make yourself a brand-new account and proceed to tell someone how they should whine as much as they feel like. And then you claim to know what constitutes what good manners here?
Have you seen how some of the forge developers act? They act almost exactly like FC when it comes to idiots who blame them for something going wrong.
Now look at how Mojang acts. They take a lot of suggestions. Meanwhile, the modAPI slowly dies as flowerpots are added to the game.
So, suggestions can be very, very bad for actual gameplay.
I just popped in to thank the kind soul who mentioned BTW works with MCPatcher, but only with HD Textures and HD Fonts. Alas, I didn't take note of your username while scanning the thread, and I'm not sure how many pages back it is now. You just saved me a big headache though. Many thanks! =]
Well, the beds thing has been discussed hundreds of times. So has animal power. Full automation is higher tier, so chicken breeding isn't.
And if these were posted on the BTW forums, they would've gotten him instantly banned. Why? Well, there's a suggestions thread in the suggestions forum by FC, that says, "Suggestion: Stop posting suggestions."
Just wanted to stop by and let you know FC that I absolutely love the new hardcore changes. I rarely get to play these days - in fact, it seems you manage a new version by the next time I get to play. So sometimes its tough experiencing all the new features, but of what I've seen I am loving. The F3 nerf is much appreciated. I didn't even realize I used that thing until it was gone, haha. And stakes, oh-my-science, stakes. I use those things too much.
Anyway, thanks FC! I need to find time to post on the forums when they come back up; I miss everyone there.
Chickens being made to only lay eggs after eating, is a step towards devaluing eggs as a food source. I'm impartial to that, but flip it on its ear for a moment. This raises the value of beef and pork, the best type of food, and arguably the easiest to aquire. For this reason, hardcore chickens is a bad move. Well, not really. Just unfinished. Something to devalue meat and make lesser foods a better option for early game would even things out. I don't have any specifics in mind though, I'm not a designer.
Ok, let me explain something here to hopefully clear this up:
Making suggestions to someone that hasn't asked for them is rude. It's called "unsolicited advice", and generally, if you walk up to someone on the street and do it, they will likely get pissed.
I don't know you, yet you decided that you were going to offer me unsolicited advice. Thus, the conversation started with you doing something rude to begin with. I'm not sure why you've come to believe that everyone wants your opinion, but if you'd like to get along with people in life, I'd recommend not wandering around saying things like "Hi! You know that your coat would be nicer if it were blue?"
Secondly, the suggestions you made were so bad, that if I were to implement them, the mod would effectively be ruined. I don't take kindly to someone trying to ruin the year and a half of work I put into the mod.
In other words man, you behaved quite rudely towards me, and I responded in kind. I never asked for your ideas, I don't want them, and they suck.
What's wrong with encouraging beef and pork as a primary early-game food source? It's easy to aquire and recreate. I value chickens more for their feathers (for use in arrows) than as a food source. The extra food is just a bonus. Besides, there's so many possible sources of food in the game, I don't think making eggs less useful as a food impacts gameplay in any meaningful way.
Why does anyone actually think that FC needs shielding from criticism? If anything, people are protecting the suggestees from getting a castigating rebuke from FC himself.
Yeah, I largely agree with you here. Balancing food sources is just not in any way a priority for me given their incredible abundance in MC, and I've focused more on making chickens valuable with regards to their feathers through changes like the Rotted Arrows.
You'll notice that most of the balancing work I've done with regards to animals has very little to do with food, and has been more along the lines of: cows are for leather, pigs are for Tallow, and chickens are for feathers.
I still need to take care of sheep mind you, as at present their role is almost entirely decorative through wool. A big problem there IMO is spider silk to wool, which is already slated for my chopping block in the near future. Ultimately, it makes sheep entirely redundant late game, and doesn't make a whole lot of intuitive sense to begin with.
Separating the two would allow me to design much clearer uses for both spiders and sheep into the tech tree.
I gotta say I love the hardcore sheep. Getting all the colours was an awesome project, and I pretty never use wool for anything. I've started it again on my single player world, just because it's a fun aspect of the game now. I still have no plans to ever do anythign with wool. (Until you add something that is.
The fan boy in me is already drooling. I don't suppose you'll share any of your ideas on what each thing would be used for?
Yeah...that's kinda the problem. Right now we have a cool system for acquiring wool and not much incentive to use it
As you'll notice, many of my designs for the mod tend to operate in two stages. There's the system itself, and then there's addressing player motivation to use it. This of course applies to vMC systems as well, like my changes to beds and F3 acting to encourage minecart usage.
Having a cool system is all well and good, but I find many mods (or even vMC features) focus way too much on the way something works rather than why someone would use it. I consider providing such motivation a big part of what I do, and you'll notice I tend to sink a lot of time into making adjustments here and there to do so.
Nah, as that would only elicit suggestions
It's a big part of why I don't discuss things too much before releasing them, even if I've turned that into a pleasant "surprise" mechanism with time. I really do hate receiving suggestions, and suggestions about unreleased features based on partial information are the worst of all.
You can already see some of my work in that direction though with the Stakes. I've seen comments lately about people suddenly wanting to hold onto string because they want to use them with Stakes, and while I don't think that's enough, I do think it's a step in the right direction.
Anyways, this likely won't happen for awhile yet. I'm pushing in many different directions simultaneously right now, design-wise.
That's not a problem with GUI's man, it's a problem with Tile Entities. Most blocks with a GUI have a tile ent, but there are exceptions like the crafting table, which have none.
Generally, you only require a tile ent for a persistent inventory that hangs around after the GUI is closed (or for any other use that requires more data than 4 bits). So, for something like a crafting table, or I assume Mojang's anvil, it's not needed.
I assume this is also the reason why Mojang decided to not allow blocks with inventories to be pushed by pistons.
Negative aspects aside, what makes string interesting? It's potentially much stronger than hemp fibres. It also might have sticky properties. Maybe it can be boiled down into a variety of glue? That would only reduce the value of slimes and slimeballs however. It's a tricky problem and one I don't have an answer for.
Yeah, if you want a mod installer, MCPatcher is the way to go. MultiMC's had problems with better than wolves and SMP for me.
Hm.... You're blowing my mind a bit here... I can't imagine a non-aesthetic motivation for getting colored wool...
As to the food point I suppose that makes sense. If you're going to throw in the towel on making food interesting that the relative viability of chicken vs beef in the early game doesn't matter at all.
i like the hardcore chickens much, much more than the vanilla ones. i like that i have to feed them to get eggs, and i like eggs as food (it has always annoyed me that i couldn't cook vanilla eggs). i got off to a slow start because i only had one chicken
but i really bonded with louise; it was fun to build the small flock.but. after being extremely busy establishing wheat/hemp farms and livestock breeding (everything is still manual because that's where my game character's mind is at for now; he doesn't know that much yet), i find that i am not using the chickens at all, because i have plenty of food from the pigs and cows (and the mushroom cave), and in comparison the chickens are a pain because i feed them and then they take their sweet time to lay eggs, and i am always away because watching chickens is just not all that exciting
, and louise is a serial cheater who doesn't really love me. i know i could automate, and some time down the road i will. i do not use the wiki, because i get a lot of enjoyment out of figuring out how to build things myself. but as it stands, there is no need to automate my chicken farm, because i have a surplus of food from other sources.i am a lot more interested in dynamic balance than in things being easy or hard per se. IMO breeding of pigs and cows is not in balance with hardcore chickens. pigs/cows don't take as long to pop out offspring as the chickens do with their eggs, and those are not even guaranteed offspring, while pigs/cows/sheep always give instant birth to a healthy baby, which grows up insanely fast. it'd be better if they gestated for a while and had the occasional miscarriage (which might even kill the one popping out the kid). they also drop a lot of food at once, and it's high-protein food (gives more health than eggs). oh, and sheep regrow their wool too fast -- i have 16 sheep and by the time i've shorn them all, at least one has already regrown (these are vanilla MC issues, of course).
as soon as one has a full field (9x9 with 1 water in the middle) of wheat and hemp each, and a corral of pigs and cows, one seems set for life, even without automation. hemp takes a while to get started, but then it'll regrow from ... 8th? stage in no time flat. i keep pondering how to stretch that out. maybe i shouldn't allow hemp to regrow, but pretend it has to be reseeded -- that would also encourage me to work on automation.
now that i've figured out how to build a windmill, i won't even get hungry that quickly -- i really liked how much working the hand crank drained my energy. almost as bad as real life ;).