Ok, I'll ask here in case someone here understands what's going on, or when this change occured.
The bloody fog color changes now when you're in shadow.
Please tell me this can be altered... Ugh.
I must admit, this is going to take some getting used to...especially as it feels like a total eclipse is happening every time you walk under a tree!
I'm also not that enamored of the new fog system in general. The old effect felt like mist in the distance and blended quite nicely with my better skies. Now it feels kind of artificial somehow...something else to have to get used to I suppose.
I must admit, this is going to take some getting used to...especially as it feels like a total eclipse is happening every time you walk under a tree!
I'm also not that enamored of the new fog system in general. The old effect felt like mist in the distance and blended quite nicely with my better skies. Now it feels kind of artificial somehow...something else to have to get used to I suppose.
I mentioned this elsewhere, and it's been filed as a bug report
That's MC-31681. It's most likely a bug (if it would be a feature, it would be a pretty stupid one). At least it needs fixing, so you better upvote this on the bug tracker.
I mentioned this elsewhere, and it's been filed as a bug report
Makes sense that both problems are related.
My beef however, is over the difference between the old and new type of distance fog. We might have more control over fog distance in 1.7, but it's too abrupt and ugly IMHO (unless this is also is related to the above issue).
This, coupled with the way mipmapping overly blurs the tops of tree foliage, when viewed at an angle, even at close distances and also adds hard black lines to window frames and plants, means a step back in realism for me. I'm not complaining about mipmapping in general though, as I can see it helps with many other problems of pixelation and moire patterns at distance.
I spent some time this morning and found the following colormap coords for each biome.
Dec - Biome - Coords (From bottom left.)
0 Ocean 127,64
7 River 127,64
9 Sky (End) 127,64
24 Deep Ocean 127,64
1 Plains 50,82
16 Beach 50,82
129 Sunflower Plains 50,82
2 Desert 0,0
8 Hell (Nether) 0,0
17 Desert Hills 0,0
35 Savanna 0,0
36 Savanna Plateau 0,0
130 Desert M 0,0
163 Savanna M 0,0
164 Savanna Plateau M 0,0
3 Extreme Hills 203,16
20 Extreme Hills Edge 203,16
25 Stone Beach 203,16
34 Extreme Hills+ 203,16
131 Extreme Hills M 203,16
162 Extreme Hills+ M 203,16
4 Forest 76,143
18 Forest Hills 76,143
29 Roofed Forest 76,143
132 Flower Forest 76,143
157 Roofed Forest M 76,143
5 Taiga 191,52
19 Taiga Hills 191,52
133 Taiga M 191,52
160 Mega Spruce Taiga 191,52
161 Mega Spruce Taiga 191,52?
10 Frozen Ocean 225,0
11 Frozen River 225,0
12 Ice Plains 225,0
13 Ice Mountains 225,0
140 Ice Plains Spikes 225,0
141 Ice Mountains Spikes 225,0?
14 Mushroom Island 25,230
15 Mushroom Island Shore 25,230
21 Jungle 12,219
22 Jungle Hills 12,219
149 Jungle M 12,219
23 Jungle Edge 12,194
151 JungleEdge M 12,194
26 Cold Beach 242,4
27 Birch Forest 101,92
28 Birch Forest Hills 101,92
155 Birch Forest M 101,92
156 Birch Forest Hills M 101,92
30 Cold Taiga 255,0
31 Cold Taiga Hills 255,0
158 Cold Taiga M 255,0
32 Mega Taiga 178,62
33 Mega Taiga Hills 178,62
6 Swampland NONE
134 Swampland M NONE
37 Mesa NONE
38 Mesa Plateau F NONE
39 Mesa Plateau NONE
165 Mesa (Bryce) NONE
166 Mesa Plateau F M NONE
167 Mesa Plateau M NONE
Darn, so roofed forest doesn't have it's own point? That's disappointing... I wanted to make mine a magical fairytale forest, with completely different colors from the normal one. Think they'll give the new biomes their own points by 1.7?
Darn, so roofed forest doesn't have it's own point? That's disappointing... I wanted to make mine a magical fairytale forest, with completely different colors from the normal one. Think they'll give the new biomes their own points by 1.7?
Nope. Biome colors has pretty clearly been an afterthought for Mojang for a long time.
Nope. Biome colors has pretty clearly been an afterthought for Mojang for a long time.
Colors in general have been poorly done from the viewpoint of us texture pack people starting with when Notch changed redstone to vary it's brightness based on it's power level. I'm hopeful that it will eventually be fixed as part of the mod API stuff but I doubt it's terribly high on their list. Probably won't see significant changes to it until they get to the point were we can do stuff like add a new leaf block to the game.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Tis far better to be a witty fool than a foolish wit.
Has anyone found out how the colouring works yet? We should get around 10 people researching one biome each.
Edit 2:
Wow it's all a mess. Everything is a rest of old bad habits. I'll see if I can use the power of reddit again so all nice suggestions in this thread get more attention.
...You're going to complain about it on reddit instead of reading the thread? :\
On a more relevant note: Can't wait to see you guys take full advantage of this in your texture packs! relevancy, yay!
I have read the whole thread. And people agree that mojang probably won't improve this feature in a while, but nobody knows for sure.
It's a good idea with hight-difference, but the current state of it is kind of disastrous. There are many ideas in this thread on how to improve this, so what I'm doing on reddit is simply to get Mojang's attention so they could consider making this feature a lot more user friendly.
I don't know why people are complaining when I only try to make all peoples' suggestions in this thread reach the spotlight.
Me again!! I feel like I'm relying on this thread for all of my recent texture changes XD
Does anyone know if the desert biome has some sort of hardcoded overlay for the grass? I've been trying to make the desert grass a yellowish brown color, but it always comes out with a slight green tint to it no matter what hue I try. Is this just me? I find it a bit odd that they'd do such a thing for the desert...
I was testing a bit new biome colormaps in the last days.
First of all McSpider's points are quite accurate! I did not know them before I made tests pictured below so the colormap should be adjusted according to McSpider's coordinates or XSSheep image. Thanks a lot!
What I wanted to check is how far does the coloring of each biome goes according to height. It appears that it is not the same and does not go to the far bottom-right corner. Taiine is right with that. And yeah, "distances" for each biome vary and often overlap.
Image below shows my test colormap for grass palette. Sorry about the colors, those just help me determine height and biome ;-) Those small dots helped me determine "starting" and "ending" points for each biome.
Now a few words of explanation of what I discovered... But image first:
Numbers above describe approximate height for biome at those linear markers (black and white). I didnt mark birch forest and jungle edge :/
1. Desert color does not gradient. It is determined with the very bottom-left pixel.
2. Savannah starts at "desert pixel" and follows towards bottom-right corner just as pictured above.
3. New biomes like Birch Forest, Jungle Edge, Mega Taiga has new "starting points".
4. Mega Taiga overlaps partially with Taiga palette but has different "height points".
5. Jungle Edge "ends" on the Forest pallette (that small blue dot).
6. Below sea level (62 and below) all biomes have "starting point" color.
7. "Distance" each biome goes towards coldest bottom right corner is not the same.
I tested all the way from 62 to 256 and above gradients picture approximately full height coverage. Natural land generation reaches 128 height with exception for Extreme Hills that can now generate higher (up to 156? I didn't really check that) and if you want to see nice color changes in natural land generation, you should remember about that (ussually less than first 1/4 of whole distance the pallette for each biome goes is visible in natural land generation).
I know that images above are messy, but maybe you will find them helpfull.
Time to start working on new palette with nice gradients ;-)
Thanks a lot! This is very useful. I was thinking of making my own, but I am glad I decided to browse through the pages of this thread. Good job.
Yes, a thousand times YES. This looks very neat, easy to understand AND EASY TO EDIT. This is how it should have been in the first place. Is it too much work for Mojang to make something like this, or does it make the game slower if colors are picked from different png files? I don't know, but this looks too good, hope it becomes like this in the near future.
Using the coordinates posted earlier, here's a new template with the exact points marked. I tried marking out easily selectable shapes for gradients, let me know how that works.
I am really new to minecraft (less than two weeks) and am in the process of trying to figure out java and which modding programs I will need to make new textures, blocks, items, and recipes!
I am still trying to figure out what can be done with a resource pack vs. a Mod so my questions may be relating to a different process.
yes sugar cane uses the grass color map, I have found blue sugar cane in my ice plains biomes which has blue grass and black sugar cane elsewhere because I use Misa's template and because of the new snapshot's colour behaviour.
is there a way to change the cane to not use the gradient with a resource pack, or would you need a mod?
Awesome! Just think how great it would be if we had a file where you could edit those values... we could do whatever the frack we wanted!
Thankyou for this! it is very helpfull. I have found the gradient folder in my 1.7.2 files and it has two gradients
one listed for foliage and one for grass. has anyone played with the foliage one yet?
Thankyou for this! it is very helpfull. I have found the gradient folder in my 1.7.2 files and it has two gradients
one listed for foliage and one for grass. has anyone played with the foliage one yet?
It functions the same as the grass, but is applied to different blocks. I think only Oak and Jungle leaves currently.
A big thanks from me to everyone who participated in this thread for asking and answering questions I had not even thought of yet.
No problem. We're a pretty good community for the most part. Well... unless someone ticks us off by doing something they aren't supposed to like stealing. Asking questions and discussing ideas is always cool though.
So been having fun with the grasscolor.png but i can't seem to do the same with the foliage map I want it to match my grass color so i just copied it and that didn't work... I tried mirroring it but still no luck. The leaves are green so they do take from the foliage i made, just not the gradients i've put in there?!?
The foliage map only works on some of the trees. It is totally ignored by spruce and birch trees, unless you use MCPatcher to get around vanilla's limiations.
The colors you see are the result of the texture and the colormap added together. (They are essentially blended with the "Multiply" mode if that means anything to you.) So for instance if your leaf texture is darker than your grass texture, leaves in game will be darker than the grass even if the colormaps are the same.
I'm not-so-happy about the biome-changed sugarcane either, and my sugarcane is green. It often darkens them and makes them look weird, and/or the highlights on them look weird due to having lower saturation, because of how coloring actually mixes with colors.
Seriously, this is just a silly change >_>
I'm also very annoyed at this. I had my sugarcane just the way I wanted it. Except maybe I wanted it slightly more yellow in the desert biome.. But now all my sugarcane is a very dark ugly green..
Also Yes. Mojang should tell people where biomes source their colours instead of us having to figure it out.
Something like this would be great and I think mojang should at least make it so the biomes all have the same variation to make it smooth. (How many pixels each biome gets its currently determined by where it is positioned which may give it less pixels to work with). So they should at least take use of a whole square instead of a triangle. And please... give sugarcane their own texture.. do not relate it to grass
Oh and is anyone having rendering problems with glass with thin borders?
In the texture pack I'm developing when I walk away from glass (about 15 blocks) the edges of the glass disappear.
And another thing mojang should add. They have a feature where you can code a block so that it blurs when you get close to it. They should have an option where a block blurs as you get away from it!. If you have thin edges of a brick texture for example.. If you walk away from it all the lines jump because there is not enough pixels on the screen to keep the lines. What it should do.. is blur into a red colour instead of this unwanted effect using an added code:
I must admit, this is going to take some getting used to...especially as it feels like a total eclipse is happening every time you walk under a tree!
I'm also not that enamored of the new fog system in general. The old effect felt like mist in the distance and blended quite nicely with my better skies. Now it feels kind of artificial somehow...something else to have to get used to I suppose.
I mentioned this elsewhere, and it's been filed as a bug report
Makes sense that both problems are related.
My beef however, is over the difference between the old and new type of distance fog. We might have more control over fog distance in 1.7, but it's too abrupt and ugly IMHO (unless this is also is related to the above issue).
This, coupled with the way mipmapping overly blurs the tops of tree foliage, when viewed at an angle, even at close distances and also adds hard black lines to window frames and plants, means a step back in realism for me. I'm not complaining about mipmapping in general though, as I can see it helps with many other problems of pixelation and moire patterns at distance.
Darn, so roofed forest doesn't have it's own point? That's disappointing... I wanted to make mine a magical fairytale forest, with completely different colors from the normal one. Think they'll give the new biomes their own points by 1.7?
Nope. Biome colors has pretty clearly been an afterthought for Mojang for a long time.
• Follow Lithos on Twitter for release announcments
* Join the Lithos Discord for previews and to help
Edit 2:
Wow it's all a mess. Everything is a rest of old bad habits. I'll see if I can use the power of reddit again so all nice suggestions in this thread get more attention.
Yes, try reading the thread
• Follow Lithos on Twitter for release announcments
* Join the Lithos Discord for previews and to help
...You're going to complain about it on reddit instead of reading the thread? :\
On a more relevant note: Can't wait to see you guys take full advantage of this in your texture packs! relevancy, yay!
I have read the whole thread. And people agree that mojang probably won't improve this feature in a while, but nobody knows for sure.
It's a good idea with hight-difference, but the current state of it is kind of disastrous. There are many ideas in this thread on how to improve this, so what I'm doing on reddit is simply to get Mojang's attention so they could consider making this feature a lot more user friendly.
I don't know why people are complaining when I only try to make all peoples' suggestions in this thread reach the spotlight.
McSpider, consider submitting that list of coordinates to the wiki.
Does anyone know if the desert biome has some sort of hardcoded overlay for the grass? I've been trying to make the desert grass a yellowish brown color, but it always comes out with a slight green tint to it no matter what hue I try. Is this just me? I find it a bit odd that they'd do such a thing for the desert...
Thanks a lot! This is very useful. I was thinking of making my own, but I am glad I decided to browse through the pages of this thread. Good job.
Yes, a thousand times YES. This looks very neat, easy to understand AND EASY TO EDIT. This is how it should have been in the first place. Is it too much work for Mojang to make something like this, or does it make the game slower if colors are picked from different png files? I don't know, but this looks too good, hope it becomes like this in the near future.
Here's the .psd I used, for your convenience.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6273197/biome.psd
e: Tried it out, did not work.
I am still trying to figure out what can be done with a resource pack vs. a Mod so my questions may be relating to a different process.
is there a way to change the cane to not use the gradient with a resource pack, or would you need a mod?
Thankyou for this! it is very helpfull. I have found the gradient folder in my 1.7.2 files and it has two gradients
one listed for foliage and one for grass. has anyone played with the foliage one yet?
that looks pretty simple!. how would the areas between biomes be blended?
A big thanks from me to everyone who participated in this thread for asking and answering questions I had not even thought of yet.
"just call me Leo, its easier to type :D"
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It functions the same as the grass, but is applied to different blocks. I think only Oak and Jungle leaves currently.
Most likely with the same four-block fade they are now. I don't know how you could easily change that, though I wish it were a more gradual change.
No problem. We're a pretty good community for the most part. Well... unless someone ticks us off by doing something they aren't supposed to like stealing. Asking questions and discussing ideas is always cool though.
The foliage map only works on some of the trees. It is totally ignored by spruce and birch trees, unless you use MCPatcher to get around vanilla's limiations.
The colors you see are the result of the texture and the colormap added together. (They are essentially blended with the "Multiply" mode if that means anything to you.) So for instance if your leaf texture is darker than your grass texture, leaves in game will be darker than the grass even if the colormaps are the same.
They are the same.
• Follow Lithos on Twitter for release announcments
* Join the Lithos Discord for previews and to help
I'm also very annoyed at this. I had my sugarcane just the way I wanted it. Except maybe I wanted it slightly more yellow in the desert biome.. But now all my sugarcane is a very dark ugly green..
Also Yes. Mojang should tell people where biomes source their colours instead of us having to figure it out.
Something similar to this would be great:
Something like this would be great and I think mojang should at least make it so the biomes all have the same variation to make it smooth. (How many pixels each biome gets its currently determined by where it is positioned which may give it less pixels to work with). So they should at least take use of a whole square instead of a triangle. And please... give sugarcane their own texture.. do not relate it to grass
Oh and is anyone having rendering problems with glass with thin borders?
In the texture pack I'm developing when I walk away from glass (about 15 blocks) the edges of the glass disappear.
And another thing mojang should add. They have a feature where you can code a block so that it blurs when you get close to it. They should have an option where a block blurs as you get away from it!. If you have thin edges of a brick texture for example.. If you walk away from it all the lines jump because there is not enough pixels on the screen to keep the lines. What it should do.. is blur into a red colour instead of this unwanted effect using an added code:
http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Texture_pack#Animated_textures
just looking over this wiki.. It looks like they removed this feature? (the blur when close)