The way I see it, we all paid half price for an unfinished game. It started out pretty good, and has slowly gotten better over time. Who cares if the full game takes a long time to come out, we only paid $13. If I paid $30 for it, then I would be pissed.
After trying it during the "free weekend" (so long ago...), I already felt that it was worth the price. That's the only reason I put my money down.
It is *CLEARLY* obvious that the eFame and millions of dollars Minecraft has made for Mojang has gotten to Notchs head, and by extension, the companies. He catches the most flak (and also, not to be forgotten or taken lightly, the most praise and worship) because he has set himself up as the face of Mojang/Minecraft. He is, to the average Minecrafter, the dude who made/developed/invented the game (regardless of whether it's true). This is in part due to the mindless zealotry with which some of the community speak of him on the forums here and all over the internet, and also due to Notchs own inability to put his ego aside and set people straight about the true nature of the games development.
Having said that.. Here are a few things about 1.8 and things that have come to light recently that have really soured my opinion of Mojang/Notch.
From Notchs twitter~ Jens will be the lead minecraft dev for a while because of a super secret project I will be working on for two weeks.
Yes, you read that correct. Notch is "taking a break" (as if he hasn't had enough) from Minecraft to work on an entirely different project... I'd imagine Notch is wealthy enough from Minecraft sales alone that he doesn't *need* to produce a new game right away from any sort of financial point of view. Let's not forget he's involved in the development of the more recently announced Mojang title "Scrolls" as well.
So to clarify: Even though Minecraft development seems slow and unsatisfying these days, Notch is of the opinion that he has no real obligation to help speed the progress along. Instead he chooses to enter weekend long game contests and work on his other (non-minecraft) game projects.
To any person with a conscious, that mountain of wealth (earned from Minecraft sales) would be an incredible motivator to complete the project that so many millions have paid him in good faith to complete. Yes, we knowingly purchased a product that was incomplete, but that purchase also included a promise of continued development for an unnamed period of time. Unfortunately we were never given any sort of development schedule and the guys at Mojang seem to be cool with a decidedly lazy approach to pretty much everything concerning Minecraft.
You seem to be one of the "mindless fans" you talk about if you think Notch should only work on Minecraft. That's like telling EA Games to only work on The Sims and disregard every other game they have. Also, you would want a break from doing the same thing for a long time. And he is still going to complete his project in good faith; he takes a bunch of feedback from the community. The reason things are going slower then they would be at, as an example, Nintendo, is that Mojang has less than 10 employees. You have to keep that in mind. They are not really taking a "lazy" approach. Now on to the next part.
Where's the customer appreciation?
It doesn't exist, and I'll tell you why.
The mindless fanbase of Minecraft (No i'm not implying that everyone other than me, or that everyone who disagrees with me, is mindless. But I'd like you to tell me with a straight face that a large part of the community isn't infatuated with Notch to the point of overlooking any shortcomings he or the game might have) seems to see no evil in their dear old leader. They have been caught up in a great social tidal wave of euphoric eCelebrity worship not unlike the "two minutes hate" in the book by George Orwell, "1984". They will take whatever Notch and co. give them and they will rant and rave about how it's the greatest thing ever without even stopping to consider if it's actually any good. It is, I'm sure to some degree, this very idol-worship behavior which has gotten to the mans head and made him think he can behave however he wants without consequence.
Wait, 1.8 is delayed, is probably going to come to us in incomplete chunks, and there's no mention of resolving any of the longstanding bugs/issues that we've been dealing with? (pistons pushing pistons, redstone wiring circuit-autocomplete, etc)
Stop right there. Notch never set a release date for 1.8 in the first place. You can't say it was "delayed." Even when Jeb talked about releasing it on the eigth, he said it MIGHT be on the eigth, as in there was a chance it could be. The only reason it wasn't is because they wanted to make it perfect; this is one of the reasons he gave out the pre-release version, to find bugs and problems. He also gave it out for people like you who are really impatient. Also, "pistons pushing pistons" is not a bug nor an issue for it is very well possible and "redstone wiring circuit-autocomplete" just makes no sense at all. Next part.
I'm not sure I really need to expand on that. At least Notch is somewhat consistent in that he promises greatness and pretty much never actually delivers.
... really? Because of pistons, I was able to make Connect 4 on Minecraft. I've tested out 1.8, and it is really cool. The hunger bar is good and I love the new building materials. However, this is kind of subjective, so if you don't like Connect 4 or endermen or NPC villages, that is your choice. Now, you are probably going to retort about NPC's not being in them yet: Notch hasn't put them in the game yet because he was in a hurry to get 1.8 out because he wants to please his fans and give them what they want. Even though he is splitting it in two updates, at least we get some of the stuff earlier. I actually think giving half of it now and half of it later is better than giving it all later.
Lastly, this is another quote from Notch, concerning Minecraft being available on Steam: "Being on Steam limits a lot of what we’re allowed to do with the game, and how we’re allowed to talk to our users. We (probably?) wouldn’t be able to, say, sell capes or have a map market place on minecraft.net that works with steam customers in a way that keeps Valve happy. It would effectively split the Minecraft community into two parts, where only some of the players can access all of the weird content we want to add to the game." ~Notch
If the thought of Notch considering a minecraft cash shop while the game itself is still incomplete doesn't get your blood boiling... Then his pathetic excuse about why he can't bring himself (We should be thankful he's so diligently trying to protect his cash shop for us, right?) to let the community be torn asunder because some people might not have access to virtual items for cash... This man has gotten *RICH* off of an incomplete game and is not only content to just let it putter along while the money keeps pouring in, he's trying to figure out ways to make MORE money from it.
He is considering a shop; he is not stopping game development and adding in the shop. If he does add a shop of any kind, which will probably not be a real-money shop, it will be far from now, after the full version of the game is released. Also, you are calling him greedy, Notch donated 4,048 dollars to the last Humble Indie Bundle, the second highest amount donated for that one. As I said before, it wouldn't have to be a real-money shop; For example, a "map marketplace" could easily be free. Also, Team Fortress 2 has a shop, along with other games, and they have earned a lot of money; they had a shop before it was free to play too. Why aren't you complaining about other games that have shops? Maybe Notch isn't trying to make more money, but add more content to keep the users happy. Also, it's not only his shops he wants to protect, it's other features, like communicating with the community or other content besides shop stuff. Putting a game on Steam isn't all that important anyway. Putting it on Steam, however, would earn him more money, so the fact that he doesn't want it on Steam for his community should show that he is not greedy.
-snip- If you made it this far, thank you for taking the time to read my thread. Feel free to post and tell me why you think I'm wrong or overreacting. Also feel free to chime in if you feel similarly to me and are rather let down.
-snip-
I'd say overreacting.
Leaked 1.8 Pre-release beta test version of beta impressions:
Firstly, I wonder what Jeb was thinking when he gave his original 8th of September release date guess. If it wasn't before, it's obvious now that 1.8 isn't anywhere near completion. This sort of poor communication is exactly what I was trying to bring up with this thread.
1.8 is officially out now. Not near completion you say? It's only about a week later. Anyways, that's why it's called a guess, not a fact.
How did they NOT figure out that XP orbs lag the hell out of the server whenever someone that has a few levels worth dies?
How did they NOT figure out the furnace bug?
Both bugs were fixed by the second version of the pre-release - that's why they had a pre-release. Also, all games have bugs the developers don't predict. So this argument here is kinda dumb... I'd like to see you code a game like Minecraft and find every single bug before you release even a pre-release version of it.
These kinds of blatantly obvious bugs/design flaws making it through their debugging/coding process is kind of amateurish and embarrassing in my opinion.
Amateurish? As I said, it happens to all games.
I'd also like to take a moment to point out that within a number of hours of the leaked 1.8 pre-release beta test version of the beta being released there were COMMUNITY MADE bugfixes for these issues. Again, kind of embarrassing (for Mojang).
Not really... Mods are common, bugs are common, and Mojang did what the users did AND MORE by the second pre-release, so... Communities often make bugfixes, it's not uncommon.
Why is it that a company raking in $200,000 a day is unable to produce a stable update after months (since 1.8 has been in the works since the June/July time frame according to Notch and Co.) of development. Why is it that they're unable to properly communicate?
The reason the pre-release wasn't stable is because it was a pre-release. Emphasis on pre. As in not the final version of the update. And there has been a lot to add. As I stated earlier, Mojang has less than 10 employees. They can't get things done as fast as companies like Sega or Nintendo or EA Games.
I could go on about multiple other aspects of 1.8 that are ridiculously buggy or just flat out poorly implemented (mineshafts/fortresses/ravines, limited visibility at lower altitudes, outrageous amount of crashing, etc), but I feel like I've already made my point and further reinforced my original argument.
As I said earlier, it's a PRE-release.
Believe what you will, but 1.8 has been nothing but one fiasco after another since it was conceived.
Thanks for your time.
Long story short, I think you are overreacting a bit.
Brilliant. so now it's 1.8 (release) and um . . . yea . . .
My favorite SMP server is DOWN courtesy of the lag/crash issue from orbs. Every time a player dies, they drop orbs which lag the server. Once enough orbs drop, the server crashes and dies, and from what I'm told it crashes so hard the new vanilla 1.8 world he created is unrecoverable.
Soooo Plan B. The server reverted back to 1.7.3 to avoid this issue using our old maps and add-ons. But apparently there's an added bonus bug here. Attempting to connect to a 1.7.3 server with a 1.8 client, can crash the SERVER! So there it is. My favorite server is down until a solution can be found.
For an extra extra bonus, shift clicking items into a full chest (or a full inventory) crashes the game.
So in summary, Business as usual. New patch, new game crippling Bugs.
And for the record Mystify... Your profession of choice (programming) is no more benevolent or mystifying (heh see what I did there?) than any other profession. It requires certain skills and a particular work ethic to enjoy success.
I'm 100% NOT surprised that you took offense at the "making a steak" comment that I made, and your response merely goes on to prove that you think programmers are somehow "in a league of their own".
It's a job, it requires certain skills, like ANY JOB ON THE PLANET. Hell... even flipping burgers at McDonalds requires some degree of time management and skill to do properly. Too bad you feel insulted anytime someone doesn't instantly have immense respect for programmers.
Back on topic: Keep the discussion alive! Let the world and the Minecraft community know how you feel!
I never said that programmers were a special or mystical being incapable of being understood by mere mortals. I only said we have a better understanding of programming, how much effort is really represented by the update, and what the norms are. I would never claim to know how long it would take to make a house or paint a painting or how much it costs to build a space shuttle, how much effort it takes to develop a new material for shoes, how long it takes to design a new dress for the latest fall fashion, how much effort goes into designing a new muffler for a car, or any number of other skilled tasks I am not familiar with.
I would expect an automotive engineer to be equally insulted if I went up to them and said that they were taking too long to design a new car. After all, he should know how to design a car, there are hundreds of existing car models, it should be simple. If I claimed I had equal right to judge how long he's been taking to make a car compared to another automotive engineer, I should be mocked.
That said, I do see many, many people deeriding the amount of content in this update. They list features as they are apparant and relevant to them, which often has little bearing on how much effort it took to add it to the game. and looking at the update, I can see how it gives that impression. It is pretty much what I expected, and I realize how much work has gone into it, but the gameplay doesn't feel like it has shifted that radically.
What are you talking about? I've been building and adventuring on the same map just fine. the only hinderence is the endermen, and I think they are planning on altering them. Mining and building works just fine. If anything, buildign is encourged, since building a reliable food supply is encouraged now, and fast transport systems now carry the added benefit of new consuming hunger. Sprinting lets you explore caves for resources faster, or navigate the long cooridors of your mine. What forces you to adventure?
The issue is less with this update (excluding Endermen ruining buildings and forests and well everything) and more the direction it is going... I like to mine and build with a little bit of adventure and exploration thrown in. Adding things like leveling and such, even if they only add minor perks, makes it pretty much necessary to go out and fight. Never mind when you get into the fact that if they ever want to make adventuring interesting that they know as well as everyone else there will have to be mobs that can break blocks or anything can be dealt with with a stack of dirt. By going down this type of path they make it clear they want combat to be interesting and it never will be without features that ruin the game for those of us that want to build without super easy mode creative or no monsters at all.
The issue is less with this update (excluding Endermen ruining buildings and forests and well everything) and more the direction it is going... I like to mine and build with a little bit of adventure and exploration thrown in. Adding things like leveling and such, even if they only add minor perks, makes it pretty much necessary to go out and fight. Never mind when you get into the fact that if they ever want to make adventuring interesting that they know as well as everyone else there will have to be mobs that can break blocks or anything can be dealt with with a stack of dirt. By going down this type of path they make it clear they want combat to be interesting and it never will be without features that ruin the game for those of us that want to build without super easy mode creative or no monsters at all.
I don't buy that at all.
Unless they actively gimp you at lower levels, such that our current characters are really level 10, for example, then not getting experience leaves you at the same place it does now. If non of those perks are releated to mining or building, you can ignore them. If they do, it adds an incentive for you to fight mobs on occassion, and gain some of the levels in building and mining. Now you are better at it tht you currently are, which should encourage it.
Also, including mobs that can break blocks does not mean they have to be tearing down your creations. for instance, a mob that will only break blocks to get to you, and only once you have drawn its aggro. sitting in your house while it is outside would be fine. Attacking it then running into your house would be a problem. a boss that destroyed blocks would probably not be anywhere near your creations, and a blcok-destroying mob that only spawns in strongholds would similarly be kept away from yoru creations.
And I will agree that the current version of the enderman is problematic, but I also don't think it is finalized. as for forests, I don't see how they are hindering your creativity. If anything, the new terrain generation helps it. I can find much more interesting places to build buildings, there are flat plains that are convienent to build on, oceans are big enough to support underwater cities...
adventure and building are not in conflict. The only element that is even in conflict is the endermen movign blocks, and that doesn't even have anything to do with adventure.
I am going to dissect your argument in parts. Not trying to be mean to you, I just don't think this is a good argument, and I am going to state why.
You seem to be one of the "mindless fans" you talk about if you think Notch should only work on Minecraft. That's like telling EA Games to only work on The Sims and disregard every other game they have. Also, you would want a break from doing the same thing for a long time. And he is still going to complete his project in good faith; he takes a bunch of feedback from the community. The reason things are going slower then they would be at, as an example, Nintendo, is that Mojang has less than 10 employees. You have to keep that in mind. They are not really taking a "lazy" approach. Now on to the next part.
Stop right there. Notch never set a release date for 1.8 in the first place. You can't say it was "delayed." Even when Jeb talked about releasing it on the eigth, he said it MIGHT be on the eigth, as in there was a chance it could be. The only reason it wasn't is because they wanted to make it perfect; this is one of the reasons he gave out the pre-release version, to find bugs and problems. He also gave it out for people like you who are really impatient. Also, "pistons pushing pistons" is not a bug nor an issue for it is very well possible and "redstone wiring circuit-autocomplete" just makes no sense at all. Next part.
... really? Because of pistons, I was able to make Connect 4 on Minecraft. I've tested out 1.8, and it is really cool. The hunger bar is good and I love the new building materials. However, this is kind of subjective, so if you don't like Connect 4 or endermen or NPC villages, that is your choice. Now, you are probably going to retort about NPC's not being in them yet: Notch hasn't put them in the game yet because he was in a hurry to get 1.8 out because he wants to [i]please[/i] his fans and give them what they want. Even though he is splitting it in two updates, at least we get some of the stuff earlier. I actually think giving half of it now and half of it later is better than giving it [i]all[/i] later.
He is considering a shop; he is not stopping game development and adding in the shop. If he does add a shop of any kind, which will probably not be a real-money shop, it will be far from now, after the full version of the game is released. Also, you are calling him greedy, Notch donated 4,048 dollars to the last Humble Indie Bundle, the second highest amount donated for that one. As I said before, it wouldn't have to be a real-money shop; For example, a "map marketplace" could easily be free. Also, Team Fortress 2 has a shop, along with other games, and they have earned a lot of money; they had a shop before it was free to play too. Why aren't you complaining about other games that have shops? Maybe Notch isn't trying to make more money, but add more content to keep the users happy. Also, it's not only his shops he wants to protect, it's other features, like communicating with the community or other content besides shop stuff. Putting a game on Steam isn't all that important anyway. Putting it on Steam, however, would earn him more money, so the fact that he doesn't want it on Steam for his community should show that he is not greedy.
[/i]I'd say overreacting.
[/b]1.8 is officially out now. Not near completion you say? It's only about a week later. Anyways, that's why it's called a guess, not a fact.
Both bugs were fixed by the second version of the pre-release - that's why they had a pre-release. Also, all games have bugs the developers don't predict. So this argument here is kinda dumb... I'd like to see you code a game like Minecraft and find every single bug before you release even a pre-release version of it.
Amateurish? As I said, it happens to all games.
Not really... Mods are common, bugs are common, and Mojang did what the users did AND MORE by the second pre-release, so... Communities often make bugfixes, it's not uncommon.
The reason the pre-release wasn't stable is because it was a pre-release. Emphasis on pre. As in not the final version of the update. And there has been a lot to add. As I stated earlier, Mojang has less than 10 employees. They can't get things done as fast as companies like Sega or Nintendo or EA Games.
As I said earlier, it's a PRE-release.[b]
[i]Long story short, I think you are overreacting a bit.[/i]
You seem to be under the impression that the ACTUAL release of 1.8 is stable. In my experience and those of my friends (I know, it's crazy to think a guy like me has any) 1.8 is JUST as unstable as the pre-release versions 1 and 2.
Also, I never said Notch should only work on Minecraft. *facepalm*
Also, I most certainly CAN (and have) said that 1.8 was delayed. Here you go, from dictionary.com: [i]Delayed: to put off to a later time; defer; postpone:[/i]
So, with that definition in mind. You would honestly say that 1.8 was never once postponed or put off until a later time? 1.8 WAS delayed, multiple times, and to try and say otherwise is pretty foolish.
Yes, I understand that bugs happen in ALL games. I was merely trying to point out how severe and commonplace the two I mentioned are. How did the XP orb thing not get noticed? Please tell me since you seem to have a greater understanding of the programming process than me.
Dieing is a major part of the new XP system, since when you die you lose all your XP. The fact that a game breaking (yes, massive server lag whenever someone dies IS gamebreaking) bug that simply required.... a player to die with some xp ...wasn't addressed in the implementation of that experience makes me severely question their debugging/coding/programming/whatever process.
But then again, I'm not a programmer... so that probably means I shouldn't try to use logic to dissect programming decisions and processes.
Minecraft is a pretty fun hobby but I refuse to get this worked up about it. My overall happiness doesn't hinge on the fact that this game is taking forever to develop or that this is even being programmed in Java, of all things.
I understand that you want to vent and bang on your drums about a game that you're disappointed about. But hey, look...the Japanese successfully made the world's first blue rose. See? Other interesting things are happening in this world that doesn't involve Minecraft.
Since you've decided to divorce yourself from this game and the company behind it, you don't have to worry about it anymore.
For me 1.8 works stable...
- have no crashes after 4 hours playing, even with a 32x32 TP...
- Fps is between 30 and 45, i can handle with...
- I found some little bugs, but they don't disturbed me much...
- Survival is still Survival... the aspect of Hunger makes it even better...
- I got very excited when I found a Cave with Waterfall, floating from a ravine in the middle of an ocean... was very impressive...
My conlusion
Complainer should stay at 1.7.3 or delete it and never play, while all who are satisfied (still about 66% of the community :wink.gif: ) will going to update to 1.8 and enjoy minecraft further. Call me Fanboy, I am... but I don't see any negative aspects to be one.
Minecraft is game, not a conspiracy to troll little crybabys.
Out of curiosity, what exactly is this "mimimi" thing you are referring to?
You seem to be under the impression that the ACTUAL release of 1.8 is stable. In my experience and those of my friends (I know, it's crazy to think a guy like me has any) 1.8 is JUST as unstable as the pre-release versions 1 and 2.
Also, I never said Notch should only work on Minecraft. *facepalm*
Also, I most certainly CAN (and have) said that 1.8 was delayed. Here you go, from dictionary.com: Delayed: to put off to a later time; defer; postpone:
So, with that definition in mind. You would honestly say that 1.8 was never once postponed or put off until a later time? 1.8 WAS delayed, multiple times, and to try and say otherwise is pretty foolish.
Yes, I understand that bugs happen in ALL games. I was merely trying to point out how severe and commonplace the two I mentioned are. How did the XP orb thing not get noticed? Please tell me since you seem to have a greater understanding of the programming process than me.
Dieing is a major part of the new XP system, since when you die you lose all your XP. The fact that a game breaking (yes, massive server lag whenever someone dies IS gamebreaking) bug that simply required.... a player to die with some xp ...wasn't addressed in the implementation of that experience makes me severely question their debugging/coding/programming/whatever process.
But then again, I'm not a programmer... so that probably means I shouldn't try to use logic to dissect programming decisions and processes.
the issue only occurs when you die with a LOT of xp. Hence, to discover it, you would have to spend time building up a large section of xp, die, then respawn. With limited time, I can see how they could overlook testing the effect of dying after playing for a while. While killing mobs.Esp. if they didn't bother to respawn after the test. Yes, in normal gameplay it is a really easy bug to come across. That does not mean it is going to be found while doing normal testing. It is also possible that it was one of the bugs on their known list before the pre-release, and they didn't get around to fixing it beforehand.
i find notch tweets more then actually programs hes always on twitter hes always taking breaks hes always playing other games..notch is just lazy...I find it hard to believe this 1.8 took 2-3 months to make and they forgot to add snow biomes in again thats just ridiculous...Mojang as a company is pretty unprofessional sadly..
ADD: he cant stick to one project for a long period of time. he has to constantly do new ideas to keep himself entertained, this is one of the reasons why minecraft is taking so long and is falling short of the great game we all know it could be. solution: he needs a bigger team working on minecraft.
OCD: he wont let anyone else work on the game or take anyone elses ideas except jeb, because he is insane. this is another reason that minecraft will never live up to its great potential, because notch comes up with half assed ideas and then implements them in half assed ways. solution: bigger team.
lets face it, hes rolling in money. he doesnt even need to finish minecraft. he has probably fallen out of love with this game a long time ago. as mojang fans, we need to show them that that kind of development and leadership is not acceptable. dont buy any of these other games until minecraft is completely finished and working 100%.
I picked somewhat disappointed just because I don't get why Mojang is working on three games at once. They don't even have a lot of people working at Mojang and there working on three games I meen come on... Large game companies make one game at a time, maybe two. They have tons of people working at large game companies. Mojang is just a group of people making with barely any skills at making games right.
the issue only occurs when you die with a LOT of xp. Hence, to discover it, you would have to spend time building up a large section of xp, die, then respawn. With limited time, I can see how they could overlook testing the effect of dying after playing for a while. While killing mobs.Esp. if they didn't bother to respawn after the test. Yes, in normal gameplay it is a really easy bug to come across. That does not mean it is going to be found while doing normal testing. It is also possible that it was one of the bugs on their known list before the pre-release, and they didn't get around to fixing it beforehand.
Then why was the server me and my friend play on lagging out every time I died with 4-5 levels worth of XP? That's not exactly a lot of experience.
You have two justifications for this bug remaining in the actual update:
1) Normal Testing != Normal Gameplay
You think they're excused from finding bugs simply because their bug finding process doesn't cover all the bases? You're excusing laziness
2) They knew about it, it's on their to-do list, but they just didn't get around to actually doing it.
I could be mistaken, but I don't think it was Mojang who leaked it, it was one of the testing groups, wasn't it?
I thought Notch had just been taking it smoothly, and allowed the leak to happen in a controlled setting, afterward.
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I respect the author of this thread for putting forth his ideas and thoughts legitimately, as well as calmly and succinctly as I have yet seen on this forum.
That being said, I wonder how many people here truly are just Notch fanboys. I like Minecraft, I enjoy playing, and my fiance will attest to the fact that I spend most of my free time building. I don't like a lot of the new features in this update, but we all KNEW it was going to be buggy with the fanboys clamoring for the new release.
Notch does have a life outside of development, but he shouldn't be working on something else while Minecraft is being completed by ONE PERSON. I feel sorry for Jeb, getting dumped on like that. I don't think I would ever buy another game from Mojang, but that doesn't mean I'm not eagerly awaiting the final release of Minecraft. If I don't like the final release, I won't play it. Luckily for me, minecraft was a birthday present, and I didn't actually have to spend my money on it. *shrug* I see no reason to flame the OP for simply stating his views on the matter.
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Then why was the server me and my friend play on lagging out every time I died with 4-5 levels worth of XP? That's not exactly a lot of experience.
You have two justifications for this bug remaining in the actual update:
1) Normal Testing != Normal Gameplay
You think they're excused from finding bugs simply because their bug finding process doesn't cover all the bases? You're excusing laziness
2) They knew about it, it's on their to-do list, but they just didn't get around to actually doing it.
Once again, you're excusing laziness.
This just shows you have no conception of how much time must be spent to throughly test something like this. They had teams of people testing this before hand. You CANT hit every case. I've been playing the game normally since the pre-release came out, and I never ran into that bug. how many xp it takes to lag a computer depends on the computer. If they were using a more powerful computer, it could possibly handle a lot more xp before lagging. We do know they found and fixed dozens of bugs before release.
First people complain that they are taking too long, then they complain they didn't spend enough time testing it. As I've been saying, all of this stuff takes a lot of time.
This just shows you have no conception of how much time must be spent to throughly test something like this. They had teams of people testing this before hand. You CANT hit every case. I've been playing the game normally since the pre-release came out, and I never ran into that bug. how many xp it takes to lag a computer depends on the computer. If they were using a more powerful computer, it could possibly handle a lot more xp before lagging. We do know they found and fixed dozens of bugs before release.
First people complain that they are taking too long, then they complain they didn't spend enough time testing it. As I've been saying, all of this stuff takes a lot of time.
So even though their company has made millions upon millions of dollars... they can't be bothered to debug on more than one machine setup?
After trying it during the "free weekend" (so long ago...), I already felt that it was worth the price. That's the only reason I put my money down.
You seem to be one of the "mindless fans" you talk about if you think Notch should only work on Minecraft. That's like telling EA Games to only work on The Sims and disregard every other game they have. Also, you would want a break from doing the same thing for a long time. And he is still going to complete his project in good faith; he takes a bunch of feedback from the community. The reason things are going slower then they would be at, as an example, Nintendo, is that Mojang has less than 10 employees. You have to keep that in mind. They are not really taking a "lazy" approach. Now on to the next part.
Stop right there. Notch never set a release date for 1.8 in the first place. You can't say it was "delayed." Even when Jeb talked about releasing it on the eigth, he said it MIGHT be on the eigth, as in there was a chance it could be. The only reason it wasn't is because they wanted to make it perfect; this is one of the reasons he gave out the pre-release version, to find bugs and problems. He also gave it out for people like you who are really impatient. Also, "pistons pushing pistons" is not a bug nor an issue for it is very well possible and "redstone wiring circuit-autocomplete" just makes no sense at all. Next part.
... really? Because of pistons, I was able to make Connect 4 on Minecraft. I've tested out 1.8, and it is really cool. The hunger bar is good and I love the new building materials. However, this is kind of subjective, so if you don't like Connect 4 or endermen or NPC villages, that is your choice. Now, you are probably going to retort about NPC's not being in them yet: Notch hasn't put them in the game yet because he was in a hurry to get 1.8 out because he wants to please his fans and give them what they want. Even though he is splitting it in two updates, at least we get some of the stuff earlier. I actually think giving half of it now and half of it later is better than giving it all later.
He is considering a shop; he is not stopping game development and adding in the shop. If he does add a shop of any kind, which will probably not be a real-money shop, it will be far from now, after the full version of the game is released. Also, you are calling him greedy, Notch donated 4,048 dollars to the last Humble Indie Bundle, the second highest amount donated for that one. As I said before, it wouldn't have to be a real-money shop; For example, a "map marketplace" could easily be free. Also, Team Fortress 2 has a shop, along with other games, and they have earned a lot of money; they had a shop before it was free to play too. Why aren't you complaining about other games that have shops? Maybe Notch isn't trying to make more money, but add more content to keep the users happy. Also, it's not only his shops he wants to protect, it's other features, like communicating with the community or other content besides shop stuff. Putting a game on Steam isn't all that important anyway. Putting it on Steam, however, would earn him more money, so the fact that he doesn't want it on Steam for his community should show that he is not greedy.
I'd say overreacting.
1.8 is officially out now. Not near completion you say? It's only about a week later. Anyways, that's why it's called a guess, not a fact.
Both bugs were fixed by the second version of the pre-release - that's why they had a pre-release. Also, all games have bugs the developers don't predict. So this argument here is kinda dumb... I'd like to see you code a game like Minecraft and find every single bug before you release even a pre-release version of it.
Amateurish? As I said, it happens to all games.
Not really... Mods are common, bugs are common, and Mojang did what the users did AND MORE by the second pre-release, so... Communities often make bugfixes, it's not uncommon.
The reason the pre-release wasn't stable is because it was a pre-release. Emphasis on pre. As in not the final version of the update. And there has been a lot to add. As I stated earlier, Mojang has less than 10 employees. They can't get things done as fast as companies like Sega or Nintendo or EA Games.
As I said earlier, it's a PRE-release.
Long story short, I think you are overreacting a bit.
http://www.youtube.com/user/bobthejeffmonkeys
[simg]http://i51.tinypic.com/2vhu642.jpg[/simg]
My favorite SMP server is DOWN courtesy of the lag/crash issue from orbs. Every time a player dies, they drop orbs which lag the server. Once enough orbs drop, the server crashes and dies, and from what I'm told it crashes so hard the new vanilla 1.8 world he created is unrecoverable.
Soooo Plan B. The server reverted back to 1.7.3 to avoid this issue using our old maps and add-ons. But apparently there's an added bonus bug here. Attempting to connect to a 1.7.3 server with a 1.8 client, can crash the SERVER! So there it is. My favorite server is down until a solution can be found.
For an extra extra bonus, shift clicking items into a full chest (or a full inventory) crashes the game.
So in summary, Business as usual. New patch, new game crippling Bugs.
Thanks Notch . . .
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Curse PremiumI never said that programmers were a special or mystical being incapable of being understood by mere mortals. I only said we have a better understanding of programming, how much effort is really represented by the update, and what the norms are. I would never claim to know how long it would take to make a house or paint a painting or how much it costs to build a space shuttle, how much effort it takes to develop a new material for shoes, how long it takes to design a new dress for the latest fall fashion, how much effort goes into designing a new muffler for a car, or any number of other skilled tasks I am not familiar with.
I would expect an automotive engineer to be equally insulted if I went up to them and said that they were taking too long to design a new car. After all, he should know how to design a car, there are hundreds of existing car models, it should be simple. If I claimed I had equal right to judge how long he's been taking to make a car compared to another automotive engineer, I should be mocked.
That said, I do see many, many people deeriding the amount of content in this update. They list features as they are apparant and relevant to them, which often has little bearing on how much effort it took to add it to the game. and looking at the update, I can see how it gives that impression. It is pretty much what I expected, and I realize how much work has gone into it, but the gameplay doesn't feel like it has shifted that radically.
The issue is less with this update (excluding Endermen ruining buildings and forests and well everything) and more the direction it is going... I like to mine and build with a little bit of adventure and exploration thrown in. Adding things like leveling and such, even if they only add minor perks, makes it pretty much necessary to go out and fight. Never mind when you get into the fact that if they ever want to make adventuring interesting that they know as well as everyone else there will have to be mobs that can break blocks or anything can be dealt with with a stack of dirt. By going down this type of path they make it clear they want combat to be interesting and it never will be without features that ruin the game for those of us that want to build without super easy mode creative or no monsters at all.
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Curse PremiumI don't buy that at all.
Unless they actively gimp you at lower levels, such that our current characters are really level 10, for example, then not getting experience leaves you at the same place it does now. If non of those perks are releated to mining or building, you can ignore them. If they do, it adds an incentive for you to fight mobs on occassion, and gain some of the levels in building and mining. Now you are better at it tht you currently are, which should encourage it.
Also, including mobs that can break blocks does not mean they have to be tearing down your creations. for instance, a mob that will only break blocks to get to you, and only once you have drawn its aggro. sitting in your house while it is outside would be fine. Attacking it then running into your house would be a problem. a boss that destroyed blocks would probably not be anywhere near your creations, and a blcok-destroying mob that only spawns in strongholds would similarly be kept away from yoru creations.
And I will agree that the current version of the enderman is problematic, but I also don't think it is finalized. as for forests, I don't see how they are hindering your creativity. If anything, the new terrain generation helps it. I can find much more interesting places to build buildings, there are flat plains that are convienent to build on, oceans are big enough to support underwater cities...
adventure and building are not in conflict. The only element that is even in conflict is the endermen movign blocks, and that doesn't even have anything to do with adventure.
You seem to be under the impression that the ACTUAL release of 1.8 is stable. In my experience and those of my friends (I know, it's crazy to think a guy like me has any) 1.8 is JUST as unstable as the pre-release versions 1 and 2.
Also, I never said Notch should only work on Minecraft. *facepalm*
Also, I most certainly CAN (and have) said that 1.8 was delayed. Here you go, from dictionary.com:
[i]Delayed: to put off to a later time; defer; postpone:[/i]
So, with that definition in mind. You would honestly say that 1.8 was never once postponed or put off until a later time? 1.8 WAS delayed, multiple times, and to try and say otherwise is pretty foolish.
Yes, I understand that bugs happen in ALL games. I was merely trying to point out how severe and commonplace the two I mentioned are. How did the XP orb thing not get noticed? Please tell me since you seem to have a greater understanding of the programming process than me.
Dieing is a major part of the new XP system, since when you die you lose all your XP. The fact that a game breaking (yes, massive server lag whenever someone dies IS gamebreaking) bug that simply required.... a player to die with some xp ...wasn't addressed in the implementation of that experience makes me severely question their debugging/coding/programming/whatever process.
But then again, I'm not a programmer... so that probably means I shouldn't try to use logic to dissect programming decisions and processes.
I understand that you want to vent and bang on your drums about a game that you're disappointed about. But hey, look...the Japanese successfully made the world's first blue rose. See? Other interesting things are happening in this world that doesn't involve Minecraft.
Since you've decided to divorce yourself from this game and the company behind it, you don't have to worry about it anymore.
Out of curiosity, what exactly is this "mimimi" thing you are referring to?
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Curse Premiumthe issue only occurs when you die with a LOT of xp. Hence, to discover it, you would have to spend time building up a large section of xp, die, then respawn. With limited time, I can see how they could overlook testing the effect of dying after playing for a while. While killing mobs.Esp. if they didn't bother to respawn after the test. Yes, in normal gameplay it is a really easy bug to come across. That does not mean it is going to be found while doing normal testing. It is also possible that it was one of the bugs on their known list before the pre-release, and they didn't get around to fixing it beforehand.
ADD: he cant stick to one project for a long period of time. he has to constantly do new ideas to keep himself entertained, this is one of the reasons why minecraft is taking so long and is falling short of the great game we all know it could be. solution: he needs a bigger team working on minecraft.
OCD: he wont let anyone else work on the game or take anyone elses ideas except jeb, because he is insane. this is another reason that minecraft will never live up to its great potential, because notch comes up with half assed ideas and then implements them in half assed ways. solution: bigger team.
lets face it, hes rolling in money. he doesnt even need to finish minecraft. he has probably fallen out of love with this game a long time ago. as mojang fans, we need to show them that that kind of development and leadership is not acceptable. dont buy any of these other games until minecraft is completely finished and working 100%.
Then why was the server me and my friend play on lagging out every time I died with 4-5 levels worth of XP? That's not exactly a lot of experience.
You have two justifications for this bug remaining in the actual update:
1) Normal Testing != Normal Gameplay
You think they're excused from finding bugs simply because their bug finding process doesn't cover all the bases? You're excusing laziness
2) They knew about it, it's on their to-do list, but they just didn't get around to actually doing it.
Once again, you're excusing laziness.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/112958-Minecraft-1-8-Leaked-By-Mojang
That being said, I wonder how many people here truly are just Notch fanboys. I like Minecraft, I enjoy playing, and my fiance will attest to the fact that I spend most of my free time building. I don't like a lot of the new features in this update, but we all KNEW it was going to be buggy with the fanboys clamoring for the new release.
Notch does have a life outside of development, but he shouldn't be working on something else while Minecraft is being completed by ONE PERSON. I feel sorry for Jeb, getting dumped on like that. I don't think I would ever buy another game from Mojang, but that doesn't mean I'm not eagerly awaiting the final release of Minecraft. If I don't like the final release, I won't play it. Luckily for me, minecraft was a birthday present, and I didn't actually have to spend my money on it. *shrug* I see no reason to flame the OP for simply stating his views on the matter.
There are only three colours, ten digits and seven notes. It's what we do with them that's important
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Curse PremiumSo, so tired of them.
-glares at the chest fix sticky-
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Curse PremiumThis just shows you have no conception of how much time must be spent to throughly test something like this. They had teams of people testing this before hand. You CANT hit every case. I've been playing the game normally since the pre-release came out, and I never ran into that bug. how many xp it takes to lag a computer depends on the computer. If they were using a more powerful computer, it could possibly handle a lot more xp before lagging. We do know they found and fixed dozens of bugs before release.
First people complain that they are taking too long, then they complain they didn't spend enough time testing it. As I've been saying, all of this stuff takes a lot of time.
So even though their company has made millions upon millions of dollars... they can't be bothered to debug on more than one machine setup?
Sounds like another excuse for laziness to me.