Its just rediculous. I have a right to make my own private server with a bunch of people that I dont know.Maybe, they dont want to have to ban someone every 15 minutes.
The way I see it, this is related to having a girls sleep over and not being allowed to have a rule, Girls only! You wouldn't do that with racism, but you can do that with gender differences.
In fact, one could bring up the exact same argument for this kind of server that is on the same level of logic: there are many male players who... how do I put this... cannot resist "flirting" with female players.
I've personally been a member of servers before where female players had no choice but to leave the server or pretend they are male because they wouldn't stop being hit on. Just as an age-restricted server allows a more comfortable mature environment, a female-restricted server allows a more comfortable female environment, or any X-restricted environment allows a more comfortable X environment.
Which is why the gender restriction should be allowed.
The way I see it, this is related to having a girls sleep over and not being allowed to have a rule, Girls only! You wouldn't do that with racism, but you can do that with gender differences.
So you're going to connect a Minecraft sleep over to a slumber party? How are these 2 even close to being connected? IRL, you can interact, which is why that rule is applied. That is not the case in MC servers.
No, your argument is invalid. Making your server private just for girls is immature, because that is stereotyping the whole male gender to being annoying. Which then, you could just bring out the ban hammer for anybody that is annoying. And hey, who ever said girls can't be annoying?
Who says you cant ban everyone thats annoying, including girls?
The forum rule about discrimination only applies to hate speech, not servers, which is why it is listed under "hate speech" - if they were creating posts mocking the male gender, that's another thing altogether. If you want to bring that rule in as an argument, all other restricted (age included) servers have to be brought down as well.
I, for one, believe the server owner should be allowed to do whatever she wants with her server. There are hundreds upon hundreds of other servers you could join, so stop picking on this singular server. What exactly makes this server so special that you decided to leave your own way to complain about it?
These forums were made for everyone. No regular forums member should be restricted to do something that another can't(Except staff members). I'll tell you just like I told everyone else. This thread is not about the server. It's about the restrictions that apply, which should not belong on these forums.
So you're going to connect a Minecraft sleep over to a slumber party? How are these 2 even close to being connected? IRL, you can interact, which is why that rule is applied. That is not the case in MC servers.
The point is, girls may feel more better while talking/playing with people they pretty much are. Like... girl talk. Young boys dont need to join the server looking for trouble about this.
The point is, girls may feel more better while talking/playing with people they pretty much are. Like... girl talk. Young boys dont need to join the server looking for trouble about this.
Okay, now you're getting into personality specifics. You're assuming every girl feels that way which is not the case.
Girls may wish to play with other girls to talk about subjects which they deem personal or private and should only be talked about amongst other fellow girls.
Thus, they use the forums as a medium to communicate to the public that there is a server which only allows girls and that if you are a girl, you can join it.
For maybe like the 3rd time, that is not the point. Granted, she has every right to do that, but keep in mind, this whole thread is about the stopping of server segregation here on these forums. Threads that segregate just do not belong here. If she wants to have a server like that, then she should not be doing it here. Even if they do not explicitly discriminate, the "girls only" part of that server is implicitly discriminating by segregating, which again, is illegal activity on these forums.
The point of this thread was discussing is servers that discriminate by segregation should not be allowed on the forums. You have your opinion on the matter, and I have mine. Your opinion is not wrong, and neither is mine, nor is anyone else's opinion wrong or invalid.
If we get technical. Servers are already segregated on these forums. They may not be in the form of gender, but in the form of server types. Segregation by itself is okay. (labling and classifying people by race, age, sex, gender, sexuality). Discrimination by segregation is not. This is the argument / debate that is being discussed here. The main topic is if the thread the OP linked was discriminating by segregation or not.
Applying Girls Only to anything else and it's okay, but if it's labled in a server thread it's not okay.
This concept confuses me as to how one thing is 100% okay and another thing is not.
Reguardless of expamples, its pretty clear (especialy from all the posts from people like Rakanoth) that users have the right to post a segregated private server.As long as they dont have a reason that makes no since (i.e. 17 year olds are stupid, so their not allowed [not all 17yr olds are stupid]) they will and should have a right.Gah. I told myself I woudn't get into this topic, but I guess I did.
Hate Speech
As a family friendly and all inclusive community we do not allow any form of discrimination, this includes -- but is not limited to -- age, race, gender, nationality, ethnicity, religion, sexuality and disability.
Unless I'm wrong this means that they cannot... whats the word... in other words, they cannot 'trashtalk' specifically to these, but it doesnt say that servers are not allowed to be seperated, which is determined by the server owner.
I respect everyone's opinion on here. I feel I have expressed my opinion enough and everyone has expressed their opinion enough. I will not continue arguing with anyone as it will become a waste of my time and their time. We could argue on this for days, but wouldn't get anywhere.
I respect everyone's opinion on here. I feel I have expressed my opinion enough and everyone has expressed their opinion enough. I will not continue arguing with anyone as it will become a waste of my time and their time. We could argue on this for days, but wouldn't get anywhere.
Exact feeling, this thread should be closed before it gets even more out of hand.
this is such a stupid matter if girls feel insulted (or anyone for that matter) tell a mod, or simply ignore the person, OR maby this just isn't the server for you. im not saying not a server for girls im saying not a server for those who are easily offended
It's their server, so I don't see why they couldn't enforce rules like this.
Given how much harassment females in online games and communities get to begin with, I can certainly see the reasoning for making gender-specific servers.
I entirely disagree with the majority of posters here. I believe that the OP may have blown this a little bit out of proportion, but really, as someone who has run and owned servers for quite some time(3-4 years), I do agree that this kind of server should not be allowed. Why? Well, let's take a look at a few things.
Firstly, it's a given that everyone knows that segregation on a hateful basis is simply wrong, okay? Good, next. It's also a given that certain types of segregation are okay, such as single sex bathrooms or the like, that's acceptable. Why? Because, they need to be. I personally guarantee you that these entities which exist with such restrictions only have them because they have to, for safety(or other, I'll explain in just a moment).
Now, obviously there are other places where gender segregation is apparent. For example, certain religions separate men from women with separate right levels, meaning that women are second class citizens in particularly religious countries. Additionally, genders are also separated in other areas, for example, there are single sex schools and organisations, one such example was the "scouts". In this scenario, there is a logical reason behind the segregation, albeit different on a case by case basis. But that is why this kind of segregation is A-okay, there is logical reasoning behind it.
For schools, girls are put among other girls in "girl only schools" (similarly with boys) on the basis that they will get better academic results, or maybe that they'll make more life long friends. Both of which are reasons that are tossed around in that argument all the time, regardless of what the actual reason is, any reasons involved are logical ones. This is okay, I and the vast majority of other males who are aware of this matter are fully acceptant of this(obviously I am speaking for the crowd here, of course there are people who disagree).
In this instance at hand, girls are being separated from boys simply "Because". Wait, what? Okay, so I can't go to an all girls school because of a valid reason, I'm a male, I provide distraction, which is what girls who want to attend an all girls school wish to avoid(or their parents, whichever). It's proven that girls tend to focus more on their studies when in an all girl environment. I accept that, but I can't join this server >>Because<< I'm a boy. In a conversational/entertainment medium, such reasoning for separation is ridiculous, not that I'm ready to get up, get a mob with pitchforks and storm the castle, but you get what I mean. Really, it shouldn't be a reality, what difference does it make? I mean, you really can't tell anyway if someone is a boy or not, so why separate on this basis? >>Because<<. Really, you can argue that "Oh, boys talk about xyz and we girls want to avoid this" or visa versa, but then it's not really what gender you are, that's the fundamentals of your personality.
You can also bring the "Oh wait, hold on now, there are servers that are age restricted, why are they allowed? That's segregation too!". Well, there is a logical reason behind that, adult humour and scenarios really aren't suitable for the younger populace so restricting who can and cannot join based on age is okay and beneficial(And you can eventually access them, assuming they're like an 18+ server or whatever, you don't exactly grow into the opposite gender)
. To attend to another scenario, allowing or denying access based on how well someone can build is also okay, you want to build in an environment with people of the same skill level or maybe the server owner just wants good builders. This is the exact same as someone attempting to gain entry to the premier league and being unable to kick a ball straight. Denying them is okay, why? Well because, being good at football is a skill, sure some are more naturally talented than others, but realistically, training can gain you access. You can't train to be the opposite gender, you're born with it.
This is just my two cents, I really have no quarrel with the people who own or promote girl free servers, but really that's only because I'm a rather care free person. Is this a big problem? No. Do I personally care about the outcome here? Also no. Should these servers exist because? Again, no.
This is everything I wanted to say, and more. Thank you so much!
Well, not to pick nits or anything, but sure they can enforce any rule they want, the server's their entity, but publicly advertising nonsense rules which are enforced by the quoted server is just ridiculous.
How so? They are advertising their server normally, the rules just happen to be part of it, it's not like they are purposefully attempting to aggravate people.
Similar to the LGBT servers that exist, it's their rules on who they want in their community, so where is the issue? Sure it's a (sort of) difficult to enforce, but there are tons of other servers to choose from if people don't like the rules for that one server.
I don't really see how that makes it ridiculous to advertise such things. If you only want certain people on the server, should you not advertise as such?
Yea, I guess that girls do get a lot of rap, but completely removing males from the equation is not the solution either, though it is understandable.
It's a pretty good solution though. I'd wager a good 90% of the harassment is from males projected at females.
I helped administrate a small server group that had rules like this, and we got essentially no complaints about bad behavior on the 'x gender' servers. In contrast to their old normal server with no such rules where we were getting complaints seemingly every hour or so, it's quite a difference.
It's not an amazing solution, but it works. Can't really argue with results.
Well, having such a rule on the server itself really isn't something that we can control as a community, but disallowing such rules on the forums would be easier.
Why though? It's up to the server admins, in the end, to enforce any rules the server has.
If we're going to disallow this rule as "silly" why not disallow ALL the "silly" rules that servers advertising here? I've seen some that are only for certain age ranges, and some only for people from certain countries, would that not be regarded as "silly" as gender segregation under the same logic?
Well, no. You can argue with results, removing the cause of the problems hurts people(maybe not literally in this case, but it prevents people such as me and you from using the service)who have no intention of causing problems.
Which is a side effect of the rule.
Going back to my country example, lets say someone runs a server and only wants to play with other people from Germany. Non-german people might want to play on the server too, but due to the rules they cannot.
It's not an offense directly at non-offending players, it's just a side effect of the rule. In which case, just pick another server, there are literally millions out there.
Really, just putting "no harassment" in the rules should be sufficient provided you have adequate staff.
Speaking from experience, it's just not that simple. Even with proper staff, unless you enforce nazi-like rules where one strike and it's done, it will always happen.
Going down the route of segregation is a lazy man's option and for someone like myself who has always had a hand in some production server or another it's really just not fair.
But the point isn't to be fair, it's to keep only a selected audience from joining the server.
It's no different than having your own club, for example, for people with green hair. They only want people with green hair to join the club, so regardless of your intentions as someone with not-green hair, you just don't have green hair. It's not about being unfair, it's just how they want their club to be. Same logic applies here.
It might be lazy, but as you should know from moderating, there can't be people on 24/7/365 to deal with issues, and if there is a way to lessen the problem of said issues, I'd say go for it.
Additionally, dealing with complaints every hour or so is sort of part of the package when you run a public minecraft server.
But why does that need to be the case?
Surely if you could find a way to lessen that, you would, wouldn't you?
It just seems like a very simple way of doing things, it's not lazy by any means.
I mean, again, you don't have to join their server, there are a ton more to choose from.
I really don't see the issue at hand, it sounds like people are worked up over being discriminated against, but that is simply not the case, the simple fact of the matter is they only want "x" kind of people, and if you just so happen to be a "y" kind of person, they aren't selectively telling you "NO GET OUT!" in a means to offend, it's just that you don't fall under the category of people they want to play with.
It is not discrimination in the least, unless you also want to call men not being allowed in women's bathrooms and vice-verse "discrimination" as well.
I don't really "approve" of it, but it's their stuff. They can do what they want, I don't have to join their server.
These forums were made for everyone. No regular forums member should be restricted to do something that another can't(Except staff members). I'll tell you just like I told everyone else. This thread is not about the server. It's about the restrictions that apply, which should not belong on these forums.
But the restrictions are only on the server, not the forums. If we only allowed servers that allow everyone to join, then we would be making restrictions, since people wouldn't be able to post the server they want.
Which is why the gender restriction should be allowed.
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Curse PremiumSo you're going to connect a Minecraft sleep over to a slumber party? How are these 2 even close to being connected? IRL, you can interact, which is why that rule is applied. That is not the case in MC servers.
Who says you cant ban everyone thats annoying, including girls?
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Curse PremiumThese forums were made for everyone. No regular forums member should be restricted to do something that another can't(Except staff members). I'll tell you just like I told everyone else. This thread is not about the server. It's about the restrictions that apply, which should not belong on these forums.
The point is, girls may feel more better while talking/playing with people they pretty much are. Like... girl talk. Young boys dont need to join the server looking for trouble about this.
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Curse PremiumOkay, now you're getting into personality specifics. You're assuming every girl feels that way which is not the case.
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Curse PremiumThus, they use the forums as a medium to communicate to the public that there is a server which only allows girls and that if you are a girl, you can join it.
Simple as that.
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Forum AdminIf we get technical. Servers are already segregated on these forums. They may not be in the form of gender, but in the form of server types. Segregation by itself is okay. (labling and classifying people by race, age, sex, gender, sexuality). Discrimination by segregation is not. This is the argument / debate that is being discussed here. The main topic is if the thread the OP linked was discriminating by segregation or not.
Applying Girls Only to anything else and it's okay, but if it's labled in a server thread it's not okay.
This concept confuses me as to how one thing is 100% okay and another thing is not.
Hate Speech
Unless I'm wrong this means that they cannot... whats the word... in other words, they cannot 'trashtalk' specifically to these, but it doesnt say that servers are not allowed to be seperated, which is determined by the server owner.As a family friendly and all inclusive community we do not allow any form of discrimination, this includes -- but is not limited to -- age, race, gender, nationality, ethnicity, religion, sexuality and disability.
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Curse PremiumGiven how much harassment females in online games and communities get to begin with, I can certainly see the reasoning for making gender-specific servers.
This is everything I wanted to say, and more. Thank you so much!
Similar to the LGBT servers that exist, it's their rules on who they want in their community, so where is the issue? Sure it's a (sort of) difficult to enforce, but there are tons of other servers to choose from if people don't like the rules for that one server.
I don't really see how that makes it ridiculous to advertise such things. If you only want certain people on the server, should you not advertise as such?
It's a pretty good solution though. I'd wager a good 90% of the harassment is from males projected at females.
I helped administrate a small server group that had rules like this, and we got essentially no complaints about bad behavior on the 'x gender' servers. In contrast to their old normal server with no such rules where we were getting complaints seemingly every hour or so, it's quite a difference.
It's not an amazing solution, but it works. Can't really argue with results.
If we're going to disallow this rule as "silly" why not disallow ALL the "silly" rules that servers advertising here? I've seen some that are only for certain age ranges, and some only for people from certain countries, would that not be regarded as "silly" as gender segregation under the same logic?
Which is a side effect of the rule.
Going back to my country example, lets say someone runs a server and only wants to play with other people from Germany. Non-german people might want to play on the server too, but due to the rules they cannot.
It's not an offense directly at non-offending players, it's just a side effect of the rule. In which case, just pick another server, there are literally millions out there.
Speaking from experience, it's just not that simple. Even with proper staff, unless you enforce nazi-like rules where one strike and it's done, it will always happen.
But the point isn't to be fair, it's to keep only a selected audience from joining the server.
It's no different than having your own club, for example, for people with green hair. They only want people with green hair to join the club, so regardless of your intentions as someone with not-green hair, you just don't have green hair. It's not about being unfair, it's just how they want their club to be. Same logic applies here.
It might be lazy, but as you should know from moderating, there can't be people on 24/7/365 to deal with issues, and if there is a way to lessen the problem of said issues, I'd say go for it.
But why does that need to be the case?
Surely if you could find a way to lessen that, you would, wouldn't you?
It just seems like a very simple way of doing things, it's not lazy by any means.
I mean, again, you don't have to join their server, there are a ton more to choose from.
I really don't see the issue at hand, it sounds like people are worked up over being discriminated against, but that is simply not the case, the simple fact of the matter is they only want "x" kind of people, and if you just so happen to be a "y" kind of person, they aren't selectively telling you "NO GET OUT!" in a means to offend, it's just that you don't fall under the category of people they want to play with.
It is not discrimination in the least, unless you also want to call men not being allowed in women's bathrooms and vice-verse "discrimination" as well.
I don't really "approve" of it, but it's their stuff. They can do what they want, I don't have to join their server.
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Retired StaffBut the restrictions are only on the server, not the forums. If we only allowed servers that allow everyone to join, then we would be making restrictions, since people wouldn't be able to post the server they want.