In addition, a too high/long progress level will seriously hinder new players in a server.
Can you imagine trying to join a server and you cannot do what you want because you have all these "advanced" players doing things much faster and more efficiently? Many of these contraptions are simple to set up, bring huge profits and have no drawback except the time required to "advance" to that level. Unlike d-armoured players, those contraptions will never ever die.
You obviously havent played said mod in the video, and you apparantly did not pay attention. The machines do die, and they can be very complicated to set up. Also in a pvp, players can steal said equiptment and/or the profits of such equiptment, invalidating your argument, since in a build server it doesnt matter how far ahead a player is there.
If you are that desperate for a progressive minecraft, you could always change texture packs progressively. Eg: Vanilia -> Steampunk -> Tron
This is sarcasm right?
Dont just depend on Notch for your Minecraft updates. Thats why modding was invented.
Annoying and pointless comment. It has gotten to the point of annoyance where I wonder if I can report people for saying this.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Seriously, there needs to viewable crafting recipes in the game. Go support this idea. Also click on my profile to view my space thread under find content.
Its like a child whining to his Mom that someone told him his picture wasn't very good.
:laugh.gif:
First of all: its spelled "damned" not "damed".
Second of all: "ITS A SANDBOX GAME U STUPID DUM HOBO" is an invalid argument. Just because it is a sandbox game, doesn't mean you should be able to be an all-powerful god. "but its a sandbox game damed hobo" Yes, but it is also a survival game.
If I could use a really overpowered machine gun that shoots TNT with a blast radius of 1000 blocks, or go to space and bombard Creepers from orbit, then it would no longer be survival, now would it?
Invalid argument:
You would have to do an equally large amount of work to become that powerful, not to mention being able to sustain said equiptment with fuel. The game would still be difficult but on a larger scale.
Also, noone ever mentioned putting "overpowered TNT launchers" into the game. You did. If you actually read my post, and the comments, you will find that I believe things should be balanced when introduced with the games existing mechanics.
Seriously, there needs to viewable crafting recipes in the game. Go support this idea. Also click on my profile to view my space thread under find content.
It doesn't matter if you have to work forever to get it. Once you have, and once you have a supply of fuel for it, you become unstoppable. The game is no longer challenging. It IS overpowered.
I gave an example to back my claim and you did not. My logic that; "you still have to sustain your equiptment, as well as work hard to get it" supports the claim that the game would still be difficult, still stands.
I was using that as an example.
It was a biased and ridiculous example. Though, yes you could technically have that as a feature in the game and if properly balanced it would NOT be overpowered. If you MADE it overpowered THEN it would be overpowered.
There you go again, claiming I did not read your post even though I read the entire thread. If you choose not to believe that, that is your problem.
You obviously did not fully understand them then; I give a mock example of how guns could be a balanced mechanic in the game.
I am not retarded just because I don't agree with you, troll.
He most likely called you retarded because you made yourself out to be so. You insult the OP (me) with this crap simile, and then try to support it with false logic.
The claim that "its a sandbox game, so why limit the player to medieval" is a valid enough argument. If you hate technology that much then you can either ignore said technology, or YOU can use a mod.
Seriously, there needs to viewable crafting recipes in the game. Go support this idea. Also click on my profile to view my space thread under find content.
I gave an example to back my claim and you did not. My logic that; "you still have to sustain your equiptment, as well as work hard to get it" supports the claim that the game would still be difficult, still stands.
The game would not be difficult if you had lasers and plasma cannons. Because in all likelihood you will have enough resources to maintain them by the time you can get them in the first place.
It was a biased and ridiculous example. Though, yes you could technically have that as a feature in the game and if properly balanced it would NOT be overpowered. If you MADE it overpowered THEN it would be overpowered.
Oh, and I'M biased? Look at your poll.
Hypocrisy aside, the idiot who wrote that post about it being a sandbox also said this:
"But its too Overpower-"
ITS A SANBOX GAME DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND???
Basically, what he is saying is that because its a "sandbox", it doesn't matter if its overpowered. But Minecraft is also a survival game. If something is overpowered, then it will no longer be "survival", just "killeverythingbecauseyouareagod".
You obviously did not fully understand them then; I give a mock example of how guns could be a balanced mechanic in the game.
Whatever. I wasn't talking to you anyway. I was informing the person that was rambling on about how MC is a sandbox game and therefore it doesn't matter if somethings balanced that MC is also a survival game and therefore overpowered things would ruin the game.
He most likely called you retarded because you made yourself out to be so. You insult the OP (me) with this crap simile, and then try to support it with false logic.
Now who isn't reading posts?
The smilie was directed towards the idiot saying that MC is a sandbox game and therefore it doesn't matter if... I think you get the picture. If you do not, please call the nearest mental hospital.
To you, yes, my logic is false. But that is because from your point of view something is only logical if it agrees with you.
The claim that "its a sandbox game, so why limit the player to medieval" is a valid enough argument.
Minecraft is set in medieval times. Minecraft is a medieval sandbox game. Try playing Spore if you want to advance through the ages and go to space.
If you hate technology that much then you can either ignore said technology,
Unfortunately, no, I can't. Not if I want to play multiplayer, which is all I really ever do. How can I ignore everyone running around with plasma cannons?
or YOU can use a mod.
Good idea. Go use one of the dozens of futuristic technology mods out there. You can have your precious technology. We can have Minecraft without ridiculous space travel and plasma cannons, AS IT SHOULD BE.
Its really simple: If you MAKE something overpowered, THEN it will be overpowered. Really the game already allows the player to "overpower" things. The player gets exponentially more items and mining ease the farther he goes, like an amoeba. A good example would be the sugar cane; you plant one, you plant two more, you plant 6 more, etc. This also sort of applies to mineing, since diamond picks become ever increasing in supply as you collect more diamonds with your diamond pick(s). So there needs to be a progressive difficulty system, though the example I give in the polls might not be the best.
The point the guy made about "its a sandbox game, so why limit the player" STILL STANDS; you are limiting what the player can do. People have this idea that scifi will somehow ruin their precious dream of simplicity and peace. If you want to keep it simple, you can keep it simple. Stick to the basic crafts and log cabins and simple farms if you wish.
So I ask you to remove your bias, open your mind, and consider that introducing technology into Minecraft will not destroy vanilla as much as add to it.
Seriously, there needs to viewable crafting recipes in the game. Go support this idea. Also click on my profile to view my space thread under find content.
Warhammer 40k is sort of steampunk, yet you can do all that crazy stuff that technology allows. So I guess I agree as well?
That is essentially what I was saying. The problem doesn't lie in things "not fitting" the game. It lies in the people who use this argument bringing it in as an absolute truth when, more often than not, the idea simply needs reworking to better match the setting. Often, those changes actually need only be very minor or aesthetic. What people need to do is to stop treating the argument as a full-stop shutdown to any topic they don't like when it is nothing of the sort.
Voted no for "the strength/number/variety of monsters increases the farther you progress from your original spawn point", I say it should be based more on the time you played or the amount you progressed. Progression in a game like this is hard to track. Progression is found in many things, number of times smelting, items collected, size of home/land developed, number of dungeons raids, number of blocks mined, enemys killed and I could go on forever. To base progression on one aspect of the game(like exploration) is like ignoring all the other aspects of progression. That's how I see it anyways.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"If it already has been done then it can be done again" or
"If its a mod its possible to be a feature"
And thus you put the "creative" in "creative criticism". Its alright to criticize, just back up what your saying with explanations and examples. That why I don't believe saying "there's a mod for that" is a warnable offence all the time. I think mods are probably the best way to show off a suggestion. Though to just say "there's a mod for that" and not go into farther detail or to dismiss the suggestion because of the mod (such as suggesting to just use the mod instead) would be warnable.
In the sticky that says "Posting 'there is a mod for that' is a warnable offense"
I want to clarify, it is not against the rules to point out to a user that there is a mod for their suggestion, as long as you also contribute to the suggestion itself.
Simply stating that "there is a mod for that" without discussing the suggestion, or using it as an argument to dismiss the suggestion is against the rules.
Anyways I totally agree with you. Not only is it bad to dismiss a suggestion without explaining why, it also goes against what these forums are about. Furthermore, when someone says "it doesn't fit" or "I don't like it" without explaining why it decreases the creditability of that response. How can I respond to "I don't like it" without knowing the reasons why?
This is important to remember too. A lot of people use it extensively to dismiss suggestions for things most players would think fits, yet state no reason why. I've used "It doesn't fit with the setting" before, but only with explaining it thoroughly in that post, and saying what fantasy or medieval technology could replace it. It's not like everyone should pretend to think a suggestion for laser guns fits in Minecraft, but rather make note that it doesn't because it's too futuristic, and suggest a fantasy/medieval replacement such as wands that shoot magic beams (for example).
Minecraft has many faces.
Vanilla MC is one flavor - original Notch flavor! - but so many mods and plugins exist for it, you can have any damm flavor you want, including technology tree advancement.
The Lego analogy applies to the Game itself, not just the gameplay.
As far as any reasonable response in posting goes, short statements without further explanation are downright frustrating, and frankly, rude.
Don't think it should be a warn offense though. Maybe one could settle for posting "Please explain your reasoning in further detail." in response.
Just because its a sandbox game, doesn't mean there should be a whole lot of overpowered items/weapons. It needs balance to make it a fun experience. You can go on creative mode now and place as much cobblestone or TNT as you want, but people won't say that is overpowered because that is the point of creative mode. In survival, however, your first task is to survive, and so adding something overpowered like a machine gun would make it too easy to survive and the fun of shredding all those creepers would wear off quickly and the game would get boring.
On topic:
Saying it doesn't fit in with the setting should NOT be a warnable offence, BUT I don't think it gives people an excuse to dismiss the idea completely. Let me explain:
Minecraft has its own fantasy-ish style, and by that I mean it doesn't just have modern technology like cars, electricity, guns, things like that; it turns those things into minecarts, redstone, bows and so on. That is the style Notch wants, and that is the style Minecraft has
But still, if someone suggests an idea that you think doesn't fit, say so and explain why and most importantly try to think how their idea could be changed to fit into the theme.
So perhaps just saying "omg noooo whats wrong with you it doesnt fit" should be warnable, but if the statement is backed up with an explanation and improvement suggestion then it should be fine and dandy.
Whatd'yasay?
Aperantly you have never fired a gun..
and how would it be over-powerd?
*BAMBAMABAMAMAMAMAMA click, click* **** I ran out of bullets again! *reloads* click! *ABABAMAABAAM-* click click, **** RAN OUT OF BULLETS AGAIN! *Reloads, but finds no more bullets* CRAP! *runs otu for 3 hours making more bullets, runs back* AHHAHAHA I SHLAL KILL YOU ALLLZ! *reloads* ABAMABAAMBAMABMABMABAp- OH **** IT! *throws gun into Lava pool and walks off*
For the 40 or so people who don't want scifi in their fantasy or fantasy in their scifi, look up ShadowRun.
It's Johnny Mnemonic meets Lord of the Rings, smashed up with The Matrix (before that word was cool and hip), all set in an alternate history 60 years in the future.
It's 2072, baby. How much chrome do you have? Or do you swing the other way?
Dragons run megacorporations that rival Umbrella Corp in size, and have full immunity from national law (they are extraterritorial entities) and as such, can dictate their own laws and have their own law enforcement. Police and other emergency services are privatized (hell, if you pay DocWagon enough, they'll airlift four armed guards in and extract you from a firefight, pay 'em even more and you don't have to pay death benefits if they get shot).
Magic is rare to express, but powerful and scary to the corporate wageslave sheep.
Companies hire non-citizens (shadowrunners) to perform under the table raids on rivals, as all out corporate warfare is banned by the international Corporate Court (but it doesn't stop them from doing hits on each other with untracable deniable assets).
It's the ultimate dystopia.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Apparently I'm a complete and utter jerk and come to this forum just like to make fun of people, be confrontational, and make your personal life miserable. If you think this is the case, JUST REPORT ME. Otherwise you're just going to get reported when you reply to my posts and point it out, because odds are, I was trying to be nice.
Besides, no it shouldn't be a rule, because something not fitting the theme of Minecraft is a valid statement. If something doesn't fit, then it doesn't fit, get over it.
On another note : Minecraft will be open source. If people don't like the direction Notch is heading, it can be changed. But this brings up my earlier point. Its why others are making their own version / clone of minecraft. I have already explored some of them and they are pretty cool in what all you can do with them. Although, just like minecraft, none of them are finished yet.
I was in one that had triangle roofing while the ground was square. Some neat 3D crafting as well. Take this game as an example : Mythruna
They have added the ability to craft your own 3D objects into realistic objects. Its ingenious. And even though I may never play it past what it is, only because it has a lot more polishing to do, It still shows that not everyone likes notches direction. So they are making their own game. So, the argument is not what Minecraft should be like any longer since its out of our hands. The argument is, will you make your own game or play in one of the others that is being made. That IS if you don't like Minecraft any longer. Some here are showing they like the medieval theme and direction that notch has taken. I am not one of them however. And as I stated earlier, I may not continue to play if it does. But for now, I'll use the "wait and see" method to see what the outcome of all this will be before making a decision.
Besides, no it shouldn't be a rule, because something not fitting the theme of Minecraft is a valid statement. If something doesn't fit, then it doesn't fit, get over it.
Its hardly a valid statement, because as people have been saying, Minecraft is more steampunk and either way the addition of fantasy and scifi together is better than either one by itself. So by continueing to believe that "doesnt fit" is this god destroyingly solid argument against a thread even by itself, you are halting the progress of Minecraft.
Also for the LAST DAMN TIME technology would be overpowered if you MADE it overpowered. You think Notch is this complete dumbass who doesnt know how to balance out different items and gameplay features into Minecraft?
Seriously, there needs to viewable crafting recipes in the game. Go support this idea. Also click on my profile to view my space thread under find content.
That is essentially what I was saying. The problem doesn't lie in things "not fitting" the game. It lies in the people who use this argument bringing it in as an absolute truth when, more often than not, the idea simply needs reworking to better match the setting. Often, those changes actually need only be very minor or aesthetic. What people need to do is to stop treating the argument as a full-stop shutdown to any topic they don't like when it is nothing of the sort.
I think you need a round of applause for that sir.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Seriously, there needs to viewable crafting recipes in the game. Go support this idea. Also click on my profile to view my space thread under find content.
In the sticky that says "Posting 'there is a mod for that' is a warnable offense"
This is important to remember too. A lot of people use it extensively to dismiss suggestions for things most players would think fits, yet state no reason why. I've used "It doesn't fit with the setting" before, but only with explaining it thoroughly in that post, and saying what fantasy or medieval technology could replace it. It's not like everyone should pretend to think a suggestion for laser guns fits in Minecraft, but rather make note that it doesn't because it's too futuristic, and suggest a fantasy/medieval replacement such as wands that shoot magic beams (for example).
Im not diggin the "wands that shoot magic beams". Its... kind of girly in a way. Steampunk as some people have suggested is the way to go. Its got all the grime and imperfection of the past, with all the might and power of the future.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Seriously, there needs to viewable crafting recipes in the game. Go support this idea. Also click on my profile to view my space thread under find content.
Its hardly a valid statement, because as people have been saying, Minecraft is more steampunk and either way the addition of fantasy and scifi together is better than either one by itself.
What does that have to do with anything? We're talking about a phrase being against the rules, not what types of suggestions you think don't deserve to be treated like crap.
What does that have to do with anything? We're talking about a phrase being against the rules, not what types of suggestions you think don't deserve to be treated like crap.
Never said anything about banning a phrase. You either did not read or understand my comment.
I say that short and biased comments should be judged by a smart and impartial moderator or admin. This would help target people who leave sentence length pointless and biased comments like "doesnt go with the setting noob MINECRAFT IS MEDIEVAL" for warning/ban.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Seriously, there needs to viewable crafting recipes in the game. Go support this idea. Also click on my profile to view my space thread under find content.
Never said anything about banning a phrase. You either did not read or understand my comment.
I say that short and biased comments should be judged by a smart and impartial moderator or admin. This would help target people who leave sentence length pointless and biased comments like "doesnt go with the setting noob MINECRAFT IS MEDIEVAL" for warning/ban.
So people get banned for stating their opinion? That contradicts everything a forum is about.
This thread should be locked! It doesn't fit the theme of forums!
You obviously havent played said mod in the video, and you apparantly did not pay attention. The machines do die, and they can be very complicated to set up. Also in a pvp, players can steal said equiptment and/or the profits of such equiptment, invalidating your argument, since in a build server it doesnt matter how far ahead a player is there.
This is sarcasm right?
Annoying and pointless comment. It has gotten to the point of annoyance where I wonder if I can report people for saying this.
Invalid argument:
You would have to do an equally large amount of work to become that powerful, not to mention being able to sustain said equiptment with fuel. The game would still be difficult but on a larger scale.
Also, noone ever mentioned putting "overpowered TNT launchers" into the game. You did. If you actually read my post, and the comments, you will find that I believe things should be balanced when introduced with the games existing mechanics.
I gave an example to back my claim and you did not. My logic that; "you still have to sustain your equiptment, as well as work hard to get it" supports the claim that the game would still be difficult, still stands.
It was a biased and ridiculous example. Though, yes you could technically have that as a feature in the game and if properly balanced it would NOT be overpowered. If you MADE it overpowered THEN it would be overpowered.
You obviously did not fully understand them then; I give a mock example of how guns could be a balanced mechanic in the game.
He most likely called you retarded because you made yourself out to be so. You insult the OP (me) with this crap simile, and then try to support it with false logic.
The claim that "its a sandbox game, so why limit the player to medieval" is a valid enough argument. If you hate technology that much then you can either ignore said technology, or YOU can use a mod.
The game would not be difficult if you had lasers and plasma cannons. Because in all likelihood you will have enough resources to maintain them by the time you can get them in the first place.
Oh, and I'M biased? Look at your poll.
Hypocrisy aside, the idiot who wrote that post about it being a sandbox also said this:
Basically, what he is saying is that because its a "sandbox", it doesn't matter if its overpowered. But Minecraft is also a survival game. If something is overpowered, then it will no longer be "survival", just "killeverythingbecauseyouareagod".
Whatever. I wasn't talking to you anyway. I was informing the person that was rambling on about how MC is a sandbox game and therefore it doesn't matter if somethings balanced that MC is also a survival game and therefore overpowered things would ruin the game.
Now who isn't reading posts?
The smilie was directed towards the idiot saying that MC is a sandbox game and therefore it doesn't matter if... I think you get the picture. If you do not, please call the nearest mental hospital.
To you, yes, my logic is false. But that is because from your point of view something is only logical if it agrees with you.
Minecraft is set in medieval times. Minecraft is a medieval sandbox game. Try playing Spore if you want to advance through the ages and go to space.
Unfortunately, no, I can't. Not if I want to play multiplayer, which is all I really ever do. How can I ignore everyone running around with plasma cannons?
Good idea. Go use one of the dozens of futuristic technology mods out there. You can have your precious technology. We can have Minecraft without ridiculous space travel and plasma cannons, AS IT SHOULD BE.
The point the guy made about "its a sandbox game, so why limit the player" STILL STANDS; you are limiting what the player can do. People have this idea that scifi will somehow ruin their precious dream of simplicity and peace. If you want to keep it simple, you can keep it simple. Stick to the basic crafts and log cabins and simple farms if you wish.
So I ask you to remove your bias, open your mind, and consider that introducing technology into Minecraft will not destroy vanilla as much as add to it.
That is essentially what I was saying. The problem doesn't lie in things "not fitting" the game. It lies in the people who use this argument bringing it in as an absolute truth when, more often than not, the idea simply needs reworking to better match the setting. Often, those changes actually need only be very minor or aesthetic. What people need to do is to stop treating the argument as a full-stop shutdown to any topic they don't like when it is nothing of the sort.
"If its a mod its possible to be a feature"
In the sticky that says "Posting 'there is a mod for that' is a warnable offense"
This is important to remember too. A lot of people use it extensively to dismiss suggestions for things most players would think fits, yet state no reason why. I've used "It doesn't fit with the setting" before, but only with explaining it thoroughly in that post, and saying what fantasy or medieval technology could replace it. It's not like everyone should pretend to think a suggestion for laser guns fits in Minecraft, but rather make note that it doesn't because it's too futuristic, and suggest a fantasy/medieval replacement such as wands that shoot magic beams (for example).
Pipes
Vanilla MC is one flavor - original Notch flavor! - but so many mods and plugins exist for it, you can have any damm flavor you want, including technology tree advancement.
The Lego analogy applies to the Game itself, not just the gameplay.
As far as any reasonable response in posting goes, short statements without further explanation are downright frustrating, and frankly, rude.
Don't think it should be a warn offense though. Maybe one could settle for posting "Please explain your reasoning in further detail." in response.
Aperantly you have never fired a gun..
and how would it be over-powerd?
*BAMBAMABAMAMAMAMAMA click, click* **** I ran out of bullets again! *reloads* click! *ABABAMAABAAM-* click click, **** RAN OUT OF BULLETS AGAIN! *Reloads, but finds no more bullets* CRAP! *runs otu for 3 hours making more bullets, runs back* AHHAHAHA I SHLAL KILL YOU ALLLZ! *reloads* ABAMABAAMBAMABMABMABAp- OH **** IT! *throws gun into Lava pool and walks off*
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Curse PremiumIt's Johnny Mnemonic meets Lord of the Rings, smashed up with The Matrix (before that word was cool and hip), all set in an alternate history 60 years in the future.
It's 2072, baby. How much chrome do you have?
Dragons run megacorporations that rival Umbrella Corp in size, and have full immunity from national law (they are extraterritorial entities) and as such, can dictate their own laws and have their own law enforcement. Police and other emergency services are privatized (hell, if you pay DocWagon enough, they'll airlift four armed guards in and extract you from a firefight, pay 'em even more and you don't have to pay death benefits if they get shot).
Magic is rare to express, but powerful and scary to the corporate wageslave sheep.
Companies hire non-citizens (shadowrunners) to perform under the table raids on rivals, as all out corporate warfare is banned by the international Corporate Court (but it doesn't stop them from doing hits on each other with untracable deniable assets).
It's the ultimate dystopia.
obvious rep *****...
Besides, no it shouldn't be a rule, because something not fitting the theme of Minecraft is a valid statement. If something doesn't fit, then it doesn't fit, get over it.
I have to agree with this.
On another note : Minecraft will be open source. If people don't like the direction Notch is heading, it can be changed. But this brings up my earlier point. Its why others are making their own version / clone of minecraft. I have already explored some of them and they are pretty cool in what all you can do with them. Although, just like minecraft, none of them are finished yet.
I was in one that had triangle roofing while the ground was square. Some neat 3D crafting as well. Take this game as an example : Mythruna
They have added the ability to craft your own 3D objects into realistic objects. Its ingenious. And even though I may never play it past what it is, only because it has a lot more polishing to do, It still shows that not everyone likes notches direction. So they are making their own game. So, the argument is not what Minecraft should be like any longer since its out of our hands. The argument is, will you make your own game or play in one of the others that is being made. That IS if you don't like Minecraft any longer. Some here are showing they like the medieval theme and direction that notch has taken. I am not one of them however. And as I stated earlier, I may not continue to play if it does. But for now, I'll use the "wait and see" method to see what the outcome of all this will be before making a decision.
Its hardly a valid statement, because as people have been saying, Minecraft is more steampunk and either way the addition of fantasy and scifi together is better than either one by itself. So by continueing to believe that "doesnt fit" is this god destroyingly solid argument against a thread even by itself, you are halting the progress of Minecraft.
Also for the LAST DAMN TIME technology would be overpowered if you MADE it overpowered. You think Notch is this complete dumbass who doesnt know how to balance out different items and gameplay features into Minecraft?
I think you need a round of applause for that sir.
Im not diggin the "wands that shoot magic beams". Its... kind of girly in a way. Steampunk as some people have suggested is the way to go. Its got all the grime and imperfection of the past, with all the might and power of the future.
What does that have to do with anything? We're talking about a phrase being against the rules, not what types of suggestions you think don't deserve to be treated like crap.
Never said anything about banning a phrase. You either did not read or understand my comment.
I say that short and biased comments should be judged by a smart and impartial moderator or admin. This would help target people who leave sentence length pointless and biased comments like "doesnt go with the setting noob MINECRAFT IS MEDIEVAL" for warning/ban.
So people get banned for stating their opinion? That contradicts everything a forum is about.
This thread should be locked! It doesn't fit the theme of forums!