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[SuperDark33]

Travis, on 22 November 2012 - 10:21 AM, said:

Holding for now.

Travis, on 22 November 2012 - 10:21 AM, said:

Holding for now.

I doubt if they will shoot.
They want to but they have almost no ammunition.

[Schmoople]

blockman42, on 20 November 2012 - 07:57 PM, said:

I'm siding with Israel.

"If Israel put down their weapons there would be no Israel, if Palestine put down their weapons there would be peace."

I think if Palestine would agree to a cease fire there would be peace. All Israel wants is peace, not war or the destruction of Palestine. On the other hand, Palestine (well most of them) and Hamas would gladly see the demise of Israel.

Well it's not like the hate has been unwarranted. Israel has oppressed Palestine for many years, the Palestinians are just resisting that oppression.

[TheEvanCat]

SuperDark33, on 22 November 2012 - 11:00 AM, said:

I doubt if they will shoot.
They want to but they have almost no ammunition.

I guarantee you Israel has ammo (it is a first world army), and Hamas does as well (it's got its connections.)

[SuperDark33]

TheEvanCat, on 22 November 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

I guarantee you Israel has ammo (it is a first world army), and Hamas does as well (it's got its connections.)

I talked only about Hamas.

They have ammo, so little they want to keep it.

[odiedodi]

Israel has tanks rivaling other current gen tanks, and admittedly probably would trump an M1. Gaza's got modern tank busters though. At full capacity, Israel would still crush them, but it would be a dirty war.

[jacobdb]

odiedodi, on 22 November 2012 - 08:35 PM, said:

Israel has tanks rivaling other current gen tanks, and admittedly probably would trump an M1. Gaza's got modern tank busters though. At full capacity, Israel would still crush them, but it would be a dirty war.

its not technology which makes you win a war. vietnam and afghanistan are a prime example of this.

[odiedodi]

jacobdb, on 22 November 2012 - 08:58 PM, said:

its not technology which makes you win a war. vietnam and afghanistan are a prime example of this.

Hence why I said "full capacity". If Israeli politicians get in the way, then things change. Politics lost Vietnam, and made Afghanistan what it is (wouldn't call it a lose, but you can't win concretely when your enemy perpetually recruits new members).

[MaGicBush]

I definitely support Israel and wish other countries would just leave them alone, though if that ever happened I would get nervous at the same time(Revelations).

[AramilTheElf]

Interesting thing I just saw: A recent poll shows that 49% of Israelis oppose the cease-fire, and 29% of them would have supported a ground invasion of oops from Israel.

Travis/other Israelis, is that the kind of feeling you're getting from the population? Do people actually want an all out ground war?

[odiedodi]

AramilTheElf, on 23 November 2012 - 01:44 PM, said:

Interesting thing I just saw: A recent poll shows that 49% of Israelis oppose the cease-fire, and 29% of them would have supported a ground invasion of Israel.

Travis/other Israelis, is that the kind of feeling you're getting from the population? Do people actually want an all out ground war?

When your enemies want a ground war, it's only natural that you'll want to give it to them:

http://www.jpost.com....aspx?id=293181

[Travis]

AramilTheElf, on 23 November 2012 - 01:44 PM, said:

Interesting thing I just saw: A recent poll shows that 49% of Israelis oppose the cease-fire, and 29% of them would have supported a ground invasion of Israel.

Travis/other Israelis, is that the kind of feeling you're getting from the population? Do people actually want an all out ground war?

Definitely the vibe I'm getting, and one of the many reasons why I want to leave.

[TheEvanCat]

SuperDark33, on 22 November 2012 - 04:41 PM, said:

I talked only about Hamas.

They have ammo, so little they want to keep it.

If they've been shooting at Israel consistently for 10 years, I'm sure they'd have stocked up on lots of ammo.

[Trecked]

I support Palestine in this, the war crimes committed are terrible these days.

SuperDark33, on 22 November 2012 - 04:41 PM, said:

I talked only about Hamas.

They have ammo, so little they want to keep it.

Funnily enough, that's not true. Iran constantly supply them with weapons, including every single missile fired [Fajr-5 Missiles]. The Hamas leader just thanked Iran after the cease-fire .

[SuperDark33]

Trecked, on 26 November 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

I support Palestine in this, the war crimes committed are terrible these days.



Funnily enough, that's not true. Iran constantly supply them with weapons, including every single missile fired [Fajr-5 Missiles]. The Hamas leader just thanked Iran after the cease-fire .

I meant is that they cant fire large barrages as for now as it would deplete their stashes.
And now with the entrences partially open, they can shove more rockets into their asses* and get more ammo.

*As in smuggle.

[BueCraft]

I support Israel

[Trecked]

There's no worry of depletion from what I can tell. Iran have all the backing from Russia and China, enough to supply Hamas fully.

[SunWukong]

The roots of the Palestinian conflict cannot be found in eradicating Arabs, or nuking Israel. Rather, they exist somewhere far harder to reach, and that is Jewish Israel's perception of itself and the rest of the world. The fact that Israel can raise the hackles of America by defying Obama and quietly trading with China shows just what Israel herself thinks of globalisation and world peace - an impossible project! sadly, this conflict is in no small way mostly Europe and America's fault.

[Ratmancer]

It sickens me when Iran is brandished a rogue state when Israel and the United States are picturesque ideals of a rogue state. They say the two state solution will prevent peace, with direct negotiations the only the key? The negotiating tables have been open for 60 years, Israel was obviously far too busy ignoring international treaties and infringing human rights. As much as the world would benefit from a world globe without the horrible black mark of Israel covering the true Palestinian state, it won't happen in my lifetime. All I can hope for is that the Israelis and Arabs attempt come to some form of understanding as sovereign equals, though I fear even this is out of the question.

Regardless, we can all celebrate Palestine's upgrade to non-member observer state.

http://rt.com/news/u...non-member-832/

[Staonopao]

Quote

It was supposed to start 48 minutes ago. Since then, 10 missiles have hit Israel. Media is being very quiet.

Of course.

Achilles, on 21 November 2012 - 08:03 AM, said:

Aww, how cute. The children are signing the bombs to be flown off to Lebanon. Probabally to some school, no doubt.

So, let's recap.

HAMAS wovs to wipe Israel off the map, uses rockets and suicide bombers on civilians, tortures and kills dissenters or suspected spies within its borders, holds its own people and infrastructure hostage by waging war out of apartment buildings, hospitals schools, and public buildings, attacks aid shipments to Palestine if the aid organizations don't pay "protection", and refuse to care properly for inhabitants of their refugee camps, preferring that the residents stay refugees for propaganda value...

Israeli children... write on bombs (after hiding in bunkers from shells for five days).
The horror.

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Why does 10% of the United States foreign aid go to 0.11% of the worlds population? 8.5 million taxpayer dollars every day to this country.

No clue. Ask them.

Quote

All because it's the "Holy Land" and the Jews are God's "Chosen People". Give me a freaking break.

Source?

Schmoople, on 22 November 2012 - 01:40 PM, said:

Well it's not like the hate has been unwarranted. Israel has oppressed Palestine for many years, the Palestinians are just resisting that oppression.

Completely false.

The war with Israel started pretty much the same day the nation was founded (after a UN resolution passed with a huge majority vote). The Palestinians, and the other neighbouring nations, have pretty much been hostile since -- completely unprovoked.

As for the current "oppression" of the Palestinian people -- for one thing, Israel is one of the biggest providers of aid to Palestine (among many), and secondly, the wall and blockade and responses to terrorism, not the other way around. They have also proved massively successful -- the border wall, for one, reduced the number of suicide attacks by 90%. Playing nice, however, such as by retreating to give territory (such as Gaza) to Palestinians, has only ever resulted in heightened Palestinian aggression.

I just can't see how the Palestinian people is "oppressed". They have average living standards, receive a constant stream of aid from the outside world, and... oh, blow themselves up in public places and shoot rockets at civilian areas as far away as 75 km from their borders. Trying to kill as many civilians as you can is hardly "resisting oppression" in any way. Except if you define "oppression" as "massive amounts of foreign aid", in which case, yes, HAMAS is quite good at resisting them.

It baffles me how many people can shun terrorism (such as July 22nd) and cheer peaceful solutions such as Gandhi's liberation of India or the Afro-Americans' civil rights movement, but then all of a sudden when Jews are the victims of terrorists it's all "but they're just defending their country!!11eleventy". It's very disturbing.

Trecked, on 26 November 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

I support Palestine in this, the war crimes committed are terrible these days.

Which? Name one. It would also be nice if you could support your examples with relevant references from the Geneva Conventions. I'm waiting .

Meanwhile, in the real world, Israel's military has a better track record when it comes to sparing civilian lives than NATO .

Oh, and I find it funny that you can oppose war crimes and support Palestine at the same time.

Ratmancer, on 30 November 2012 - 06:00 AM, said:

It sickens me when Iran is brandished a rogue state when Israel and the United States are picturesque ideals of a rogue state.

Iran is a rogue state, red herrings about Israel and the USA notwithstanding.

Quote

They say the two state solution will prevent peace, with direct negotiations the only the key? The negotiating tables have been open for 60 years, Israel was obviously far too busy ignoring international treaties and infringing human rights.

Meanwhile in reality, polls consistently show that Israel is quite willing to withdraw, yield a significant amount of its territory to Palestine, and recognize a sovereign Palestinian state.

Diplomatic solutions are kind of difficult to achieve when the other side is hell-bent on destroying you. We saw how well "Peace in our time" worked in 1939.

Quote

As much as the world would benefit from a world globe without the horrible black mark of Israel covering the true Palestinian state, it won't happen in my lifetime. All I can hope for is that the Israelis and Arabs attempt come to some form of understanding as sovereign equals, though I fear even this is out of the question.

Yeah, how horrible that the Jews think they can have their own country like everyone else. The world was far better when they lived scattered all over the world to be oppressed, persecuted, and killed by the millions :3

Quote

Regardless, we can all celebrate Palestine's upgrade to non-member observer state.

I remain ambivalent.

Quote

A friend of mine was on the first Irish aid flotilla to Gaza

Then your friend is a bloody idiot.

Quote

the one that was hijacked illegally by Israeli commandos.

Oh, that one.

The one crewed by a freak show of "peace activists", terrorists, communists, parents who for some inexplicable reason brough their children to a ship tasked with running a naval blockade, and whatever other useful idiots that could be rounded up. The one where the crew attacked and tried to kill Israeli navy commandos after they boarded the ship for inspection (after making it very clear it would be allowed to go on after inspection, if no weapons or other contraband was found on board), and then cried bloody murder when the Israelis responded with deadly force like anyone else would -- after several of them had been injured with, among other things, kitchen knives.

The one that only carried supplies that equalled 1% of the shipments sent to Palestine daily at the time, and thus would never have succeeded in making a difference anyhow.

I wonder if your friend was among the useful idiots, or if he "defended Palestine" by throwing himself at an Israeli serviceman with a kitchen knife.

[SuperDark33]

Staonopao, on 30 November 2012 - 03:43 PM, said:

I wonder if your friend was among the useful idiots, or if he "defended Palestine" by throwing himself at an Israeli serviceman with a kitchen knife.

Use the term Hipster. or Liberal college senior.