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Did the Terrain Become BORING? (UPDATE 6/5/13 - 1.7 is a biome update?)

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#1

ChaosGuardian

Posted 26 November 2011 - 03:15 AM

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Update 6/5/13


Word has come out that 1.7 may include biome changes. Stay tuned.

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The Adventure Update was supposed to give us more motivation to explore, but instead the motivation was taken away. Here's why:


Many of the features included in the 1.7.3 generator that brought the game to life were unexpectedly removed when 1.8 hit our clients. Due to this, monstrous amounts of variety are now non-existent in Minecraft. Most of the problems with the generator today are due to limitation. With that being said, every seed is now basically identical, meaning there is WAY too much predictiveness in the terrain:



LIMITED HEIGHT VARIATION


Spoiler:




FORCED ENDLESS CAVES


Spoiler:





SLOPPY SAND BEACHES & ABSENCE OF GRAVEL BEACHES


Spoiler:


Keep in mind, this thread is NOT about the existence of oceans, the "RPG" features, the existence of the new world generation features, biome size, random placement of biomes, and possibly more. We also do not endorse the return of past generators or a new world option.

If you want to discuss these said features, you are in the WRONG THREAD.



WHY MODS ARE NOT THE SOLUTION:


Shreaders said:

Mods are a temporary fix to a long-term problem. Most of the terrain altering mods out there do not even live up to the standards that are put forth in this thread. They all are attempts to bring back 1.7 map generation into the current terrain. If you're asking Isn't this what we want? No, and this means that you did not read the full thread. So please go back, re-read the thread, and then re-post.


What we want done to the terrain is have it tweaked to add more height variety per biome. We want the structures and everything that was added since 1.8 except for the flat, dull, boring land. Mods do not fix this as they create ugly jumbled up and chewed up land masses all over the place (Which those types of land masses can also be neat if harnessed and used correctly by mojang.)
Did not know that? Re-read the thread, and re-post.

So for those of you who keep coming on here advertising different mods that we can use: 45 people have mentioned the same thing before you: so do not bother as it will not silence us. We feel the current map generation needs to be altered to satisfy all of Mojangs player base not just 25% (and yes those numbers are accurate .. the poll for this change is at 75% yes and 25% no) Did not know that? Simple.. Re-read the thread, and then re-post.

















Tell Mojang about this issue!


Jeb's Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jeb_

Dinnerbone's Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/Dinnerbone

Mojang's mailing address (MOST EFFECTIVE CONTACT METHOD):


The Minecraft Team

Mojang AB
Maria Skolgata 83
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Sweden


You must include The Minecraft Team, otherwise they will not get it.



Check out these related threads!

- Seeds Are Useless! And Here's Why:

- Bring Back Beaches!

- Terrain Generation Changes Remaining

- Please Fix the Terrain! When did it become boring?

- I think I've Lost my Heart for Minecraft

-Where Did the Mountains Go?!

- Too Many Caves! Game is too easy

- [SHARE] Remembering Pre-1.8 Terrain

- Removing the Extreme Hills and X-Hills Biomes



Quotes From Different Players:

Mattressi said:

I'm a little confused that this isn't a bigger complaint: I mean, swamps look ugly, sure and there are a few bugs here and there, but BIOMES ARE ABSOLUTELY RUINED. Seriously, I can't even play anymore - I'm just so bored by the landscape. I like mountains with trees (regular, pines and birch) and snow. I can have either mountains OR snow OR trees. Awesome Posted Image
Seeds are completely pointless now - all they do is determine your spawn point. Might as well just use one seed and ask at the start if you want to start in the biome with trees, the biome with mountains or the other biomes with nothing in them.

Has anyone tried tweeting jeb about this (I'm pretty sure Notch isn't working on Minecraft anymore)? To me, this is the single largest issue with Minecraft currently. Varied and crazy terrain was one of the greatest things about Minecraft pre-1.8. Now, Minecraft's terrain is more boring than in real life. Realism I could possibly stand (in a game with creepers and which originally became popular because of its crazy and interesting randomly generated terrain), but it simply isn't realistic to have no snow on any mountains, to have no trees (one tree per chunk doesn't count - I'm talking forests) anywhere where it snows, to have almost completely flat terrain everywhere except in one specific area which has huge mountains and nothing else.

Some have said it's this way because of NPC villages - if that's the case, I'd much rather have no NPCs at all if it will bring back an interesting world.

Please, can someone here who uses twitter contact jeb and link him to this thread or ask if he realises that Minecraft's terrain generation is horrible and boring now, and whether he intends to fix it? If Mojang think it's fine as it is and don't fix it, I honestly won't be playing anymore. Bring back variety and craziness or lose those of your customers who enjoyed (above ground) exploration, building in unique locations, searching for the best seed, admiring the views and even just doing other things in a world that didn't feel like a void.

Strottinglemon said:

The problem I have with it is: EVERY. WORLD. LOOKS. EXACTLY. THE. SAME.

Homem Pigman said:

Moving mountains to a single biome was simply the worst idea in all of gaming history. And even those look bland.I want the extremely random worlds that made Minecraft be awesome!

Mamrok said:

The terrain is a lot LESS complex than it used to be. What made the old generator more complex is, that the
physical terrain overlapped with all biomes, so that we had a lot of combinations. The biomes now are very homogenic and are seperated from each other with surgical cuts. 1000 blocks of flat forrest *poof* 1200 blocks of flat desert *poof* 1000 blocks of treeless extreme mountains *poof* 1000 blocks of flat forrest. very complex...

Also the additon of ravines and rivers doesnt have anything to do with how the terrain and biomes are created. They are just superimposed over the landscape.

giraffeartillery said:

This more realistic terrain generation is incredibly bland. Once you see one biome, you have basically seen them all.

The old one was varied and the biome mixing created some nice landscapes. Also spawning on a beach made it feel like you washed up on the shores of a unknown land. I wouldn't mind some modifications to the underground how ever.

Domino said:

The sizes are perfect, but they need more variety in each one.

Flygonair said:

I was gonna post a hate comment, but once i looked at the screenshots i realised you were right! I haven't seen any awesome looking mountain formations since 1.0.0! All i've been seeing is the same old plains, swamps, and pine forests!

MineCrak said:

I used to be ok with there being some caves, but now the entire damned underground is swiss-cheesed with them... Now I hate them.

Perhaps the people who love the endless caves are playing the game in Peaceful or Creative mode. Caves are a whole different matter in Normal difficulty. They are constantly getting in the way of my mines and underground constructions.

I would rather have fewer but more epic caves or actual caverns then an endless ant farm of caves everywhere I dig..

xlea99 said:

I kind of used to hate people who said the terrain was boring... but it is REALLY flat. I guess I have to agree now. While I'm in love with oceans and mushroomlands and jungles, there is not as much interesting stuff in the world. I really wish that jeb would put back in what notch took out: Mountain landforms.

By that I mean not a mountain biome, but allowing allowing mountains to spawn in any biome on their own. That was one reason that the 1.7.3 generator was so friggin amazing.

If Jeb made it so that mountains could spawn in the same sort of way as lakes, then things would get a lot better. Then, mountains would be spawning in forests, giving us back that good-ole' tree filled mountain range we all love. It could spawn in Praries, to allow villages to be at the top of the world. It could spawn in deserts, to give us back those sand falls. They could spawn in oceans, so you could find just a random huge mountain in the ocean, kind of like a survival island. Heck, they could even spawn in swamps. Allowing for some pretty cool crap to happen.

Also, Jeb needs to put back the gravel beaches. I loved the look of those, and they just made things look so good.

Wiggycat314 said:

I have been a heavy Minecraft player since Alpha 1.2.0_02 when I first started playing. It wasn't the mining or the monsters that urged me to play; it was the sense of adventure. Most of the time, when I make a new world, I don't plan on building, I spend most of the time exploring the unknown and seeing what Minecraft has to throw at me.

When the ability to use seeds came out in Beta 1.3, it was then that my sense of exploration really started to rise. So many words and letters to type, so many worlds, but so little time. I loved it, each world had it's own uniqueness to it. If you managed to find a very nice world, you knew that this world was yours and no one else had one like it (unless you shared the seed).

When 1.8 came out, it really hit me hard. There was little to no variety in the worlds anymore. Seeds (in my opinion) were then obsolete. What's the point of sharing seeds when every world looks the same.

Creative_Explorer said:

It is a fact that the terrain has less variety in it than before.

Frogging101 said:

I don't know why, but there are way way way too many caves. I don't recall there being this many before 1.8. I like exploring caves, and it's cool to navigate the enormous mineshafts. But only to a certain point. After spending hours and hours in a seemingly endless cave system, it just gets boring and repetitive. The cave system that I've been in since I started this world 3 days ago is just way too big. I dug a staircase mine type thing for a bit, just to collect a few ores to get me started. Within about 5-10 minutes I found my self in a cave system. 3 days later, I'm still in the cave system. I've seen about 3 ravines, destroyed 2 cave spider spawners, gotten lost in 2 different abandoned mineshafts and maybe 20 different caverns. I have half a chest full of coal, and the other half is iron, gold and a few diamonds.IT NEVER ENDS.

Owl Exterminator said:

I love enchanting, I love the new biomes, I love all of the new features, and there isn't one I would ever want removed from the game. I miss the old world though. The new world isn't the same, it doesn't even compare. I'm sorry to all those people I insulted back when the adventure update went live. I'm sorry because I know why you were upset.

DrakBadgerwaffles said:

I wouldn't be against Mojang hiring a guy on full time to do nothing but work on the terrain, as long as it gets done.


Also, is the Bukkit team actually still part of Mojang? I thought they were hired on and since then I've heard very little out of the progress they are supposed to be making.

Here's a rundown of how I think they are splitting their efforts. I'm thinking Bukkit got there, wanted to finish working on the Mod API, opened up the core program and realize that it was just a bunch of empty classes that would require a ton more time than they figured. Then 1.4 was held back to compensate.

Meanwhile, Jeb and Dinnerbone get to work on RPG stuff because Dinnerbone really only knows how to work with entities and Jeb is really only good at picking up the slack that Notch created when he would have his brain-farts so infrequently since the beginning of 1.8pre.

Then Notch leaves after delivering terrain so uninspired that he forgot to add roses, snow, and mountains (Really!? How can some people think current gen is better than 1.7.3 when it didn't even launch with ROSES and SNOW!?), Jeb takes up the torch of the entire game, makes beaches and X-hills their own biomes because he has no idea what mess of cobwebs Notch put up, and here we are with vertical beaches, endless biomes of flat terrain, and mountains that are so forced that even their heights are the same...

And some people still think 1.8 and up is better than 1.7.3? The development process alone is horrible enough to be deal-breaker.

xBella said:

Gah. I honestly can't stand the 1.3.2 terrain generation at all anymore. If I play singleplayer, it's always with my 1.7.3 .jar because it's just an eyesore to look at the current terrain generation. The terrain of 1.7.3 makes it seem like a whole new game. Honestly, I love jungles and swamps but I would trade it and NPC villages for the 1.7.3 terrain. That doesn't mean I want Jeb to just re-add 1.7.3 terrain and dump jungles and swamps, I just want him to improve it.

What happened to the savannahs? It bugs me so much to see a desert next to a jungle. I don't even know why they removed the temperature system. I miss the beaches and the gravel beaches that were everywhere. Beach houses were possible back then. If you wanted a proper beach house now, you'd have to have a tiny 2x2 house just to fit it in the beach. It also annoys me a lot when people tell me to use Large Biomes if I want better beaches. Why should I have to use Large Biomes to enjoy a feature that was once perfect? We don't need the 1.7.3 terrain generator back, we need the current one improved.

shady_slim said:

Sweet gods...witches and bats over terrain?  Exploring neat new places is what makes this game (for me)


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#2

Abyssal_Mononoke
  • Location: Searching through the Capital of Shinjuku for the King of Etria.
  • Minecraft: Quadraxis52

Posted 26 November 2011 - 03:22 AM

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I'm not one to care about terrain, but I will admit it has become boring.
Posted Image

#3

RyanML
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Posted 26 November 2011 - 03:24 AM

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Yes, they took out some of the awesome biomes from before 1.8 which is very disappointing. Also, don't forget to mention the overabundance of clay, iron, gold, and also the annoyingly common abandoned mineshafts. In general however, the new underground terrain is more interesting than that of before Beta 1.8 but the surface terrain generation is much more boring now.

EDIT: In my opinion, these should be the main priorities of Jeb:

1) Integrate the old biomes into the new generation code and remove mountain biomes. The old biomes would be slightly adjusted so that they would be expansive like the new biomes are now.

2) Make the world more hilly and add occasional mountain ranges that don't warrant their own biome. These would be really tall long strips of mountainous region that would be difficult to cross. These mountain ranges could generate in any biome except for plains and oceans. They would be snowcapped if they reached a certain height unless they were desert mountains, or if they were in snowy biomes they would obviously be covered in snow entirely.

3) Touch up the terrain with more subtle features such as beaches, and add some randomness so that we would have more unique landmarks as we did in Beta 1.7.3 and earlier.

4) Tweak the underground terrain to have a much smaller concentration of abandoned mineshafts, and make iron ore less common.

5)
---a ) Add new features unique to each biome to give them unique sets of pros and cons as to living in them. Perhaps deserts could have fertile regions along rivers and oases could generate around ponds where trees could spawn (palm trees perhaps?) and swamp biomes would have new dangerous mobs in the water for more balance.
---b ) Add new atmospheric effects individual to each biome to make them more distinguishable and to add aesthetic appeal like waves crashing in ocean biomes, heat distortion in deserts, crickets chirping and frogs croaking in swamps, and music playing and people chattering in gibberish in villages.

6) Add new biomes such as volcanic wastelands, and marshes into the generation each with their new set of challenges and features.

7) Raise the height limit for more interesting and difficult-to-scale/cross mountains as well as making more room for humbling architecture.

TL;DR: Jeb should add a lot more variety into the surface terrain generation. Also, he should add balance to the terrain generation by adding more reasons to live in harsh, stark biomes like deserts and adding dangers to fertile biomes like swamps, and by reducing mineshafts and iron ore found underground.

This video by Notch showcases how much more interesting the surface was after the Alpha terrain update up until the Beta 1.8 update:

Survival Islands Challenge: Four islands and a vast ocean... can YOU survive?Posted Image

#4

YukiChan

Posted 26 November 2011 - 03:28 AM

I was really upset that the beaches are now gone. :\ The desert biome definitely does not make up for it, as I like a beach right next to grass & trees.
I'm really happy that the snow biome is back, though.
In every flat land biome I see 0-3 trees. Shame.

#5

900bluemario
  • Location: USA,North Caralina

Posted 26 November 2011 - 03:29 AM

The terrain is getting boring,but at least I can still get enough space to build a simple house.
Hardcore Minecraft Player.

#6

PatRox7459
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Posted 26 November 2011 - 04:23 AM

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Every seed is the same. Every biome looks the same. Every time. It's drivng me insane, this game just doesn't have the appeal to it that it had in pre1.8
Users lack the mental capacity to have intelligent discussion, and mods lack the mental capacity to make intellegent decisions... I give up trying to share my intelligence with the world.

#7

Cromlathe

Posted 26 November 2011 - 04:27 AM

View Post900bluemario, on 26 November 2011 - 03:29 AM, said:

The terrain is getting boring,but at least I can still get enough space to build a simple house.

In 1.7.3 I had to excavate terrain to be able to build anything.  Now the terrain is nice and perfectly flat.  And I can build anything, anywhere.  Oh wait.  I have no materials to build with!!  Dang!

In 1.7.3 I had to excavate terrain to be able to build anything on it.  That was logical and realistic.  And it was a major source of my building materials.  Now I have to create a useless, ugly quarry to scrounge up enough stone to build anything useful.

I liked it better before.

And yeah, the terrains are boring now.  And I am not into oceans.  To me they are just wasted space because I can't do anything with them and they are in the way.  When I generate a terrain that has too much ocean, I don't use it or put up with it.  I just get rid of it and generate a new terrain.  So massive oversized oceans are not necessarily appealing to everyone :)

View Post900bluemario, on 26 November 2011 - 03:29 AM, said:

The terrain is getting boring,but at least I can still get enough space to build a simple house.

In 1.7.3 I had to excavate terrain to be able to build anything.  Now the terrain is nice and perfectly flat.  And I can build anything, anywhere.  Oh wait.  I have no materials to build with!!  Dang!

In 1.7.3 I had to excavate terrain to be able to build anything on it.  That was logical and realistic.  And it was a major source of my building materials.  Now I have to create a useless, ugly quarry to scrounge up enough stone to build anything useful.

I liked it better before.

And yeah, the terrains are boring now.  And I am not into oceans.  To me they are just wasted space because I can't do anything with them and they are in the way.  When I generate a terrain that has too much ocean, I don't use it or put up with it.  I just get rid of it and generate a new terrain.  So massive oversized oceans are not necessarily appealing to everyone :)

#8

Abalance

Posted 26 November 2011 - 04:27 AM

I hate how everything is so... smooth. Everything fits perfectly into a biome. There are no transitions that I can see.

Also, every time I create a world it is one of three things:

Swamp
Gargamel
JESUS CHRIST THE TREES

They're not even pretty trees like we had before 1.8. No. They are all "Evergreens," which are so hideous I can't stand to look at them. I seriously burnt down an entire Evergreen forest and replaced it with one of the three zebra trees I found after 20 minutes of roaming.

Anywho.

We need a more interesting terrain generator. At the moment, I'm using WorldPainter to create my own custom worlds that don't look so bland.

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#9

chezzymann

Posted 26 November 2011 - 04:28 AM

I have to admit its pretty boring. The only changes I like are the new mountain biomes  (there are some pretty damn FANTASTIC formations in those) and the oceans (I love having a house being able to face an ocean instead of the pretty annoying medium sized lakes in pre 1.8 )

(oh, and beaches are more or less back)
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#10

Chiffmonkey

Posted 26 November 2011 - 04:29 AM

Also the game is fundamentally broken now with its abundance of materials. It's all about exploration and combat as of 1.8, not *cough* mining and *cough* crafting. If they'd made a new game called AdventureCombat I wouldn't mind but I bought the Alpha when it was distinctly MineCraft.
Posted Image What? 48%? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!

#11

McNebula
  • Location: In the end... woooo..
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Posted 26 November 2011 - 04:29 AM

I AGREE WITH THIS!!!!! I want the 1.7.3 world generator!

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Mountain Biomes need our help! Let's save it!


#12

Swordply
  • Location: New Orleans
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Posted 26 November 2011 - 05:39 AM

IMO, yea terrain has gotten boring, if you've seen 1 plains you've seen them all, same for all other biomes.
"Prove to me there is a cookie here." <-- Atheist thinking
"Prove to me there isn't a cookie here." <-- Religious thinking

#13

ChaosGuardian

Posted 26 November 2011 - 08:05 AM

View Postchezzymann, on 26 November 2011 - 04:28 AM, said:

I have to admit its pretty boring. The only changes I like are the new mountain biomes  (there are some pretty damn FANTASTIC formations in those) and the oceans (I love having a house being able to face an ocean instead of the pretty annoying medium sized lakes in pre 1.8 )

(oh, and beaches are more or less back)

Meh, the mountain biomes are great and all but mountains themselves are what separated one seed from another in some cases. There aren't really surprises anymore hence everything is so repetitive.

#14

Rice_Monsters
  • Location: In a galaxy, far, far away...
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Posted 26 November 2011 - 08:24 AM

I feel the same way. Every world I generate just looks the same now, there's nothing special to it, really. Mountains are cool, but I just wish they had trees back and the random chance that it would be snow-capped. Swamps are nice, I guess, though the transitions with other biomes ruin the look of my world for me. I'd rather take aesthetic appeal over realism.

Beaches I also want to return, they were really a nice touch. On another note related to the new generation, did anyone also notice the splotchy underwater bedding compared to 1.7.3's underwater bedding? You can read about it here:

http://www.minecraft...1#entry10552392 Right below the portion about beaches. It is kind of unnoticeable, though.
You want my two cents on this forum? Here ya go Posted Image

#15

BunnyTown

Posted 27 November 2011 - 12:12 AM

The new terrain generation is killing the game for me. I mostly like building so I never find landscape that inspires me.

#16

jackcaver
  • Location: Austria
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Posted 27 November 2011 - 12:23 AM

Yeah, every biome (except mountain one) is almost flat now, maybe with a few tiny little "bumps", but that's it.
And as someone said before, every seed feels and looks the same. There is little to no variation and the terrain structure is constantly repeating (even the mountian biome).

I don't know what they did there and why, but I really hope they're going to change it. I literally can't play Minecraft because of the dull world generator now.
That's currently the biggest issue I have with Minecraft.

This really needs brought to Mojang's attention.
"It's scientific!"

#17

PureOptic
  • Location: Georgia
  • Minecraft: opticness

Posted 27 November 2011 - 12:26 AM

I do wish they hadn't added in so many mountain biomes in every seed, because now, that's all there is. Honestly, Notch needs to look into resetting the biomes, and trying again. He did okay editing them, but he should really fix it.


Also, has anyone noticed something about these posts? I laughed at this when I saw it. Notice, the first several comments rack up in the +1's. The creator of the thread even got over 60! Lol this surprised me very much when I saw it. It's funny to see people get a ton of +1's from a simple thread like this. :)
PureOptic - Youtuber, runner, music producer.
Gaming channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/pureoptic/

#18

sunperp
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Posted 27 November 2011 - 12:57 AM

I do agree that the new terrain needs more topographic variation.  Lets hope that the PhoenixTerrainMod comes back to life for 1.0.

The old BiomeTerrainMod/PhoenixTerrainMod made the pre-1.8 terrain awesome.

#19

dsohler
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Posted 27 November 2011 - 01:14 AM

Some aspects of the new terrain generator are just awesome, but a lot of good stuff from previous versions is still missing.
Removing and copying back the program file
is not a solution for configuration problems.

#20

celestialphoenix

Posted 27 November 2011 - 02:25 AM

It's a start, but it still needs more work;

Every world looks the same
-Whats the point of a random seed generator, and the option to choose your seed if there is no discernible difference between them??
(there's a few exceptions, usually novelties like spawning in lava, or a small ocean island with no trees)

Abandoned mine shafts need to be less frequent, and more dangerous.
-more spawners
-spawners not limited to cave spiders. (a few creeper spawners would liven things up.)
-double the range of spawners to 32 blocks
-chests should contain ore, rock, and used mining equipment only
-we need more traps (pressure plates+TNT, pistons+lava)

Ravines- I kinda like ravines, but they still need some final polishing.
-the floating wood needs to be fixed when a ravine crosses a mineshaft.

Land surface
-the ludicrous mountains of 1.7 need to come back.
Spoiler:

Swamps
-Don't get me started on swamps!!.

Oceans
-deeper, large oceans provide an interesting underwater challenge
-but still needs more content.
-also the terrain generator needs to be refined, so it doesn't intersect caves/ravines.
--or the entire cave/ravine gets flooded...
-re-add working sponges. (obtained from dungeon chests?)

The Nether;
-The netherforts liven the place up.
-add chests to blaze spawner rooms??
-still room for more (perhaps those f*ck-ugly swamps could go there??)

Also (this one's really f******g me off); why aren't ender-crystals available in creative??
So it has come to pass -- Our humble mount -- Rejected en-masse
Farewell my faithful friend -- My trusted steed -- Goodbye, a good friend indeed.   R.I.P Mr Piggy.