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Bring Back Beaches!


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#1

EMDude
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Posted 25 November 2011 - 04:09 AM

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POPULAR

Updated OP: 9/3/12 (Modified OP explanations, thanks to getpoopedonkid // Fixed Poll)
Updated OP: 3/8/12 (Fixed Poll)

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NOTICE (As of Snapshot 12w01a):

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This is an screenshot of the beach gen that was re-added in Snapshot 12w01a.  Please note that this is not representative of the new beaches in general, but instead an example of what the new generation can create!

Jeb appears to have simply changed the blocks which form the transition between land and the ocean biome from dirt to sand.  This forms ugly clumps of sand hardly resembling beaches on hilly terrain.  This DOES NOT resemble actual beaches or beaches as they once were in Beta 1.7.3!  Or reality for that matter.

What should be done to correct this:
  • Simply limit the max height of sand that can generate to two to three blocks above sea level, which would be identical to beach generation prior to Beta 1.8.  With beaches essentially being their own biome, such a change should feasibly be easy since it shouldn't conflict with other biomes.  If you believe otherwise, please state so and why!
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OP:

With the inclusion of the new terrain generation in recent releases, I've read about many major topics and comments having to do with terrible biome transitions involving the swamp biome and the such.  However I have not seen any real topics concerning the exclusion of beaches and the issues concerning underwater bedding.  So here is the point of this topic:

Quote

Summary:

1.) Beaches was a widely-liked feature of the previous terrain generator and it needs to be restored.

This should be simple enough.  Just add back beaches into the terrain generator.  Also gravel beaches should be returned as well.  More on that later in the topic.

2.) Although a less important issue, underwater bedding, lacks the uniformity and overall realism that it used to have.  Currently, lakes and oceans are covered in splotchy patches of dirt, sand, and clay.

The main argument against the current underwater bedding generation is that allows for easy access to large amounts of clay, and that clay was supposedly more rare in the previous generator.  However, it was abundant, since the x=z clay generator bug that previously plagued the game was patched in 1.7.

However, to further address this issue, clay density and frequency can be increased to satisfy those who believe that more clay truly is necessary.[/indent]

The poor state of these aspects of the terrain generator has proven to be both an annoyance and an eyesore to me and the community as well.  Beach gen prior to 1.8 paralleled realistic beaches and was more aesthetically pleasing in general.  To further elaborate what I mean:

Beaches, prior 1.8
Spoiler:

"Beaches" (along lakeside), 1.8 and later
Spoiler:

Beaches, real life
Spoiler:

As you can see, beaches do not actually generate in 1.8 and later, the "beaches" you see are actually not beaches at all; they are simply the outcroppings of the underwater sand bedding crossing onto the shore.  This brings me to the next point: underwater bedding.

Underwater bedding (same pic as before, view the underwater portion), prior 1.8
Spoiler:

Underwater bedding, 1.8 and later
Spoiler:

Underwater bedding, comparison with 1.8 vs. 1.7, and real life (Borrowed from Dragonid's Terrain Generation Changes Remaining)
Spoiler:

As you can see, in 1.8 and later, underwater bedding consists of ugly patches of circular splotches, whether it be in a lake or an ocean.  Previously, it was both aesthetically appealing and realistic.  Clay would still be fairly abundant if the patch from 1.7 were also incorporated into clay generation.  If that is not enough, we can simply have clay generated in the same manner as depicted in the picture below in higher frequencies or larger quantities:
Spoiler:

Lastly, gravel beaches should be added back.  It was a realistic feature of the old terrain generator and also broke up the monotony with the constant sand beaches.  It is not a necessary feature to be re-added, though it would be nice.

Gravel Beaches, 1.7 and before
Spoiler:

Gravel Beaches, real life
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To reiterate:

1.) Beaches was a widely-liked feature of the previous terrain generator and so, needs to be fixed.

2.) Although a less important issue, underwater bedding, lacks the uniformity and overall realism that it used to have.  Currently, lakes and oceans are covered in splotchy patches of dirt, sand, and clay.

With this said and done, I ask that these issues be addressed as soon as it is possible.  If you can, please twitter or e-mail Jeb.  This is technically not meant to be a petition or anything like the very popular Dear Mojang: The Swamps are Still Ugly topic, just a reminder to show that these issues must be addressed.  However, you can show your support by twittering Jeb (+ link to here) or just acknowledging it here.

Tweet Jeb at: https://twitter.com/#!/jeb_

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Get Satisfaction Topic: http://www.getsatisf..._gravel_beaches

Also check out Dragonid's Terrain Generation Changes Remaining topic for an in-depth look at issues concerning current terrain generation!

Try out a mod that adds beach generation back into the game! http://www.minecraft...0-biome-mod-v1/

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If you support this, you can show it by signing on to this cause.  Type "/signed" in your post!

Signed:
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#2

The_Designer

Posted 25 November 2011 - 04:13 AM

I agree, i want a nice beach view and some drop offs.  :iapprove:

#3

Eion_Kilant_739
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Posted 25 November 2011 - 04:14 AM

Yes, we need the original beach look. At the very least there should be a significant decrease in anything other in sand in beaches + more sand around the edges.

+1
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I was the second person to use the avatar I have. The rest took it from me. The first I asked, he said yes.

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#4

linkey11
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Posted 25 November 2011 - 04:15 AM

I very much agree!
Eh.

#5

TheFlyingTurtle
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Posted 25 November 2011 - 04:35 AM

Yes, I completely agree with you!

+1!

#6

wriggle_nightbug
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Posted 25 November 2011 - 05:05 AM

While, overall, I really do like the new terrain generation I have to agree with a lot OP says.

Gravel beaches were something I always really liked finding. They're not super useful but they were kinda rare and look pretty awesome, imo. I hadn't realised that they were completely gone and this news makes me a little sad. It was always a little treat to come across one while exploring.

The ocean floor is another thing that could be better. It's kinda nice that the water is deeper but sometimes it seems a little ridiculous. There just doesn't seem to be any point in making it so deep that I can't dive to the bottom and back up without drowning (and I know I couldn't do this IRL either but this is a game). The sea floor is also just a mess of different patches of blocks jumbled together. I really think it looked much better in older versions.

The terrain generation away from water is really good but around/under water could use a little work.

))<>((   FOREVER.


#7

YukiChan

Posted 25 November 2011 - 05:16 AM

I see what you mean now.. as I've been looking around, hopping from island to island searching for a proper beach, but have yet to find one. How sad, I was really looking forward to making my beach house for 1.0. ):
Looks like I'll have to make a man-made beach.. just hope I don't get too lazy and make it look unnatural.

#8

EMDude
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Posted 25 November 2011 - 05:37 AM

View Postwriggle_nightbug, on 25 November 2011 - 05:05 AM, said:

While, overall, I really do like the new terrain generation I have to agree with a lot OP says.

Gravel beaches were something I always really liked finding. They're not super useful but they were kinda rare and look pretty awesome, imo. I hadn't realised that they were completely gone and this news makes me a little sad. It was always a little treat to come across one while exploring.

The ocean floor is another thing that could be better. It's kinda nice that the water is deeper but sometimes it seems a little ridiculous. There just doesn't seem to be any point in making it so deep that I can't dive to the bottom and back up without drowning (and I know I couldn't do this IRL either but this is a game). The sea floor is also just a mess of different patches of blocks jumbled together. I really think it looked much better in older versions.

The terrain generation away from water is really good but around/under water could use a little work.

The height variation with oceans and other bodies of water is not something that I really view as a problem (though it might be if there isn't enough variation); it's more the underwater geology, the "mess of different patches of blocks jumbled together," as you put it, that really irks me.

That was probably done in order to increase the frequency of clay, or it might be the result of the new fractal-based generation.  Either way, my eyes bleed when I see those horrendous splotches.

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#9

Loons
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Posted 25 November 2011 - 05:37 AM

Totally agreed!

Without the beaches the wold looks kind of dark. I think Jens should add them again when there is time between the bugfixes.

#10

Rice_Monsters
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Posted 25 November 2011 - 05:37 AM

I've noticed the disappearance of beaches in 1.8+ as well, and it would be a very pleasant surprise to see that it is added back into vanilla minecraft. Not sure exactly why Notch or Jeb decided to remove such a nice feature. What I was not expecting in this thread was the analysis of the underwater bedding, and that really wants me wishing for 1.7's system of underwater bedding.

Very well informative and thoughtful post, more people should check this thread out.
You want my two cents on this forum? Here ya go Posted Image

#11

rgarber
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Posted 25 November 2011 - 05:41 AM

I agree. The only thing that I don't like about 1.8/1.0 is the terrain generation. Beaches should definitely be brought back. As for how the terrain looks underwater, I don't really care, because I'm not really going to be looking there a lot.
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#12

EMDude
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Posted 25 November 2011 - 05:42 AM

View PostRice_Monsters, on 25 November 2011 - 05:37 AM, said:

I've noticed the disappearance of beaches in 1.8+ as well, and it would be a very pleasant surprise to see that it is added back into vanilla minecraft. Not sure exactly why Notch or Jeb decided to remove such a nice feature. What I was not expecting in this thread was the analysis of the underwater bedding, and that really wants me wishing for 1.7's system of underwater bedding.

Very well informative and thoughtful post, I must say! More people should check this thread out.

Thanks, I was really disappointed when I noticed there was virtually no one specifically addressing the issues concerning the beaches and especially the underwater bedding.  It is completely ridiculous and annoying to see the terrible underwater geology and the exclusion of beaches in the game.

Unfortunately, many features from the previous terrain generator were either removed or modified, many of which (including beaches) were actually really nice.  R.I.P. Rainforests. :(

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#13

trollcat1337
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Posted 25 November 2011 - 05:58 AM

I agree with everyone else.  One thing I miss the most are the beaches.

#14

Kennik
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Posted 25 November 2011 - 06:01 AM

TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOtally agreed.
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#15

Flipsider99

Posted 25 November 2011 - 06:12 AM

I agree.  There are some things I really like about the new terrain generation, like rivers... but the loss of beaches was very disappointing.  And I see what you mean about the splotchy underwater bedding... I agree that it was better before.  The new terrain generation still needs a lot of work and more variety in my opinion.

#16

lolwut111

Posted 26 November 2011 - 05:59 AM

Agreed. The current "beaches" and underwater bedding are so aesthetically unpleasing IMO.

#17

Hedgehogs4Me

Posted 26 November 2011 - 06:03 AM

I think we need both kind of "beach". Before the update that got rid of real sand and gravel beaches, it was hard to find a place that was near an ocean that wasn't a beach. IRL isn't like that, unless you live in an area where land costs a hundred mil an acre.

So, yeah, rare-ish good-quality, consistent, etc sand and gravel beaches?

EDIT: as for underwater bedding, it doesn't really bother me, in case anyone was wondering why I was ignoring that part.

Edited by Hedgehogs4Me, 26 November 2011 - 06:04 AM.


#18

Mash_Tactics
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Posted 26 November 2011 - 06:06 AM

This thread has a 100% approval rating. (The asshat above me doesn't count. Wasn't there when I posted this. :( )

Seriously, congratulations on that. You're like the JFK of Minecraft.
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#19

Rpsfunkey
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Posted 26 November 2011 - 06:07 AM

I forgot that beaches were kicked aside.
That really sucks D: I loved beaches. And underwater looks . . . *shudder* The mixture of dirt and sand is just to unappealing it isn't funny.

#20

EMDude
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Posted 26 November 2011 - 06:38 AM

View PostHedgehogs4Me, on 26 November 2011 - 06:03 AM, said:

I think we need both kind of "beach". Before the update that got rid of real sand and gravel beaches, it was hard to find a place that was near an ocean that wasn't a beach. IRL isn't like that, unless you live in an area where land costs a hundred mil an acre.

So, yeah, rare-ish good-quality, consistent, etc sand and gravel beaches?

EDIT: as for underwater bedding, it doesn't really bother me, in case anyone was wondering why I was ignoring that part.

Actually if you viewed the picture that mapped 1.7 and 1.8 worlds, you would see that areas lacking in beaches were actually very common.  It is the complete lack of beaches (those excuses for beaches in 1.8 and later don't really count in my eyes) in the current versions that I am trying to address in this thread.  Otherwise, what you want is completely perfect in my eyes, and it is what we previously had as well.

As for the underwater bedding, while it is not really noticeable in the deep ocean biomes, it is quite visible in the shallow lakes and ponds in the forest and swamp biomes.  The circular splotches are simply unappealing and just plain ugly to look at.  Previously, and in real life, the composition of the underwater bedding would remain consistent for quite some distance before transitioning to dirt, sand, etc.  And the arrangement of the elements in the bedding would be rather randomized, not in the aforementioned patterns, which are of course unnatural and rather terrible to look at.

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