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Enderman as an important step to something new


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#1

Lyinginbedmon

Posted 21 September 2011 - 05:36 PM

So the Enderman have arrived in update 1.8, and already we're experiencing a bunch of problems with them, namely that they're picking up blocks and moving them around, almost indiscriminately, resulting in a lot of our hard work getting destroyed. Now, Notch has recently tweeted that he's going to nerf the block carrying mechanic of the Endermen, but I have an idea of how he could actually put it to a bigger usage.

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The Endermen
See, currently the Endermen are the most interactive mob extant in the Minecraft world. Not only are they able to pick up and place blocks just like the player, but they're neutral towards them until they notice you looking at them. They then display teleportation abilities, unseen in any other mob, and to cap things off they're very divergent in proportion relative to the other mobs too, being three blocks tall instead of two with long spindly limbs and a distinct mouth that actually moves when they're angry.

I have an idea, therefore, as to how they can be given even more importance in the world, especially in relating it to the Nether and recent developments in it.

Now, we know that Jeb has recently added generated structures that seem to resemble raised roads or aqueducts to the Nether, indicating habitation by some creature, probably not the Zombie Pigmen though they do display communal association in their vengeance-wreaking reactions to player attacks. Suffice it to say, this is indicative of there being some organism that lives in the Nether.

The Endermen have strange proportions, strange abilities, and they can move blocks around. They're different to every other mob on the surface world by vast stretches, and they're even harmed by water, even if it's just rain. My suggestion then is that they don't come from the surface world, they originate from the Nether.

More specifically, I propose that Endermen have a goal of creating Nether portals on the surface. They take blocks from a localised area (specially marked in the code, similar to slime spawning) and try to build the 4x1x6 frame of a portal.

The Ender-portals and their grim purpose
And I have ideas beyond that as well. When they complete these portals, no matter what materials they are initially made of, the blocks become Obsidian (or some special material to distinguish it as an Ender-portal, possibly weaker than Obsidian for ease of destruction), and the Endermen then stand in the portal like willing sacrifices and wait for sunlight to ignite them, thereby lighting the portal.

From there, the Endermen's masters, the Enderlords (or somesuch name), can step through to the surface world from the Nether.

The Enderlords
Immune to fire like every Nether mob to date, they would have no fear of the sun, demons walking our earth. In code, this would mean that the portal would have a special marking (like that special block or a damage value like wool) to allow the master mob to spawn in its vicinity, sort of like a big mob spawner.

And if the Enderlords can build structures in the Nether, they can build structures on the surface world, guarding their portals with strongholds and castles, building throne rooms and dungeons with strange-yet-familiar blocks. These would be much more complex and intelligent mobs that could actually pose a threat to the player and give them reason to build defenses and seek out the Endermen. Perhaps they'd even spread a strange Nether contagion to the earth like grass beneath their feet, which made enemy mobs more dangerous or allowed Pigmen or more Endermen to spawn.

The Ender Pearl
The Endermen teleport because that's how they are sent to the surface world to begin their tasks, and they move blocks around to build a way through for their masters. Perhaps the Ender Pearl would render you invisible to Endermen or their masters, the Endermen themselves certainly only pay significant attention to you. Alternatively, the pearls might serve as compasses to the nearest Ender-portal, allowing you to either hunt a large group of Endermen back to their worksite or kill one to get their "map" of sorts. In effect the pearl would be like a little internal compass they use to navigate, which you cut out of them after killing them.

Impact on Gameplay
But what would this mean for gameplay? Well, when the Endermen spawn at night, their first goal is to co-operatively build a portal. So you would spot an Enderman and then carefully follow him to find where they are grouping together to build the portal.

If you left the Endermen alone, there's not necessarily a certainty that they'll actually manage to build one; sand/gravel could swallow the portal in a cave-in before they can get to it to ignite it, or water could flood through it as a block is removed and kill the Endermen getting too close, or sunlight could just never reach the portal site underground or in a cave, and sand/gravel would still fall if they put them on the top row of the portal, breaking the shape. Even if they did start causing trouble, in day 1 you can make a stone sword, potentially even an iron sword, and go hunting the Endermen with some reasonable success, especially once you develop a bow during the daylight hours.

But if you're worried about coming under attack soon (possibly in the early days of a world where your defenses aren't too great) you want to follow them to be sure. In theory, a bucket of water would be the best weapon against this portal-building aspect to the Endermen because water puts out Nether portals and Endermen die in water. Plonking a water source inside the portal then would destroy it, effectively, so there's no reason to call this overpowered, especially since the Endermen are slow-moving when they're not teleporting to attack you so the portal would take time to build. Additionally, between calamities that may befall the Endermen whilst building and the time it would take them and the limited chunks they could build in, you don't have to worry about your world getting pock-marked with portals summoning demon overlords.

Later on, you could build a portal from Obsidian yourself to have a safe route into the Nether, or if you wanted a challenge, you could deliberately find a quenched Enderman-portal and ignite it yourself. This gives structural defenses built by players actual purpose, as well as a top-tier adventuring challenge that is, to some degree, controllable by the player. Stopping a portal being built or ignited is a good goal for a low to mid-level player, whilst combatting the Enderlords head on is definitely high-level challenge.

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Minecraft endgame: The Coming of the Enderlords


If you support this idea, check out the getsatisfaction thread and upvote the reddit link!
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#2

blueblob0
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Posted 21 September 2011 - 05:39 PM

someone needs to make this if notch doesn't add it
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#3

an1m8r
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Posted 21 September 2011 - 05:43 PM

Right....I think this sounds exceedingly cool. I did think endermen were a bit like nether portals themselves, black and teleporting so it's nice someone else agrees. However I think if this were added then notch should nerf the endermens abilities anyway to prevent a portal on night one. Imagine it growing night by night, that would be cool.
Also your Enderlords, would they be ghasts since they already exhibit a humanlike face and are white, the opposite of endermen? Also if the endermen are "creators" then the ghasts are certainly destroyers.
Or would the enderlord be another, even more terrifying mob?
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#4

Vexan
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Posted 21 September 2011 - 05:44 PM

So you probally dont get the slenderman do you.
The enderman was based of him, a tall dark figure that stalks people the more they know of him, He has a goup of NON TELEPORTING followers called "the marble hornets" he is know to them as The Operator, now i like the idea of the nether portal but insted of people leading the endermen the endermen could be leading them and the portal would have the "operator simbol" (a circle with a x in it) on it.

sorry if theres spelling errors. i get really parranoid when talking about the slenderman, i know its stupid but its the fact he only stalks you if you know about him o.o

#5

Lyinginbedmon

Posted 21 September 2011 - 05:59 PM

I do indeed get the Slenderman reference, but I see the elements present in the Nether changes and the Endermen as viable for introducing this greater purpose to things, above and beyond pop-culture reference they may have spawned from.

View Postan1m8r, on 21 September 2011 - 05:43 PM, said:

Also your Enderlords, would they be ghasts since they already exhibit a humanlike face and are white, the opposite of endermen? Also if the endermen are "creators" then the ghasts are certainly destroyers.
Or would the enderlord be another, even more terrifying mob?
Ghast are possible, but I think they're more akin to wardens than "lords" in the Nether, and they've always sort of resembled a floating Creeper skull to me.

The Enderlords or whatever they'd end up being called (if anything, no mob is explicitly named in-game after all) would obviously have to exhibit some marked qualities, like being fire-proof much like every other mob in the Nether, and capable of block manipulation in line with the Endermen (though they might construct entire structures rather than just portals or aberrant mess). Teleportation is possible, but probably not a great mix for them.

I think they'd be akin to demons, large brutish creatures of significant power. They'd spawn very rarely, maybe one or two every couple of in-game days the portal is active, and hurl fireballs like the Ghast (though able to destroy earth-bound materials a lot easier than the Ghast can, potentially of Creeper-strength). In the rare occasion that there's more than one, perhaps the social aspect should be used, like wolves and Zombie Pigmen. Given that the portal itself is 2x3, maybe that would be their forward dimensions? It would certainly give credence to the Endermen being 3 tall, and if they're that wide it would also explain why only one normally comes out of the portal at once.
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#6

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 07:15 PM

What if, alongside this, they built Endermounds, like in  the Endermounds post.
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#7

worbat
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Posted 22 September 2011 - 09:49 AM

I agree with the republicofme.
This would be a genius idea!

#8

Lyinginbedmon

Posted 23 September 2011 - 11:37 PM

Well there definitely seems to be a lot of support for this idea (even made Minecraft's front page on Reddit, for the brief time before the 1.9 pre-release came out...), but the overwhelming majority of those that dislike the idea do so because they don't want Minecraft to revolve around this portal-manufacturing aspect.

The only way I can think to avoid that is simply to minimise the likelihood that it actually turns up. This can be done by having portals built only in specially-tagged chunks, maybe coupled with a requirement to build near lava so that it rarely happens above-ground such that you are highly unlikely for it to happen on your front lawn or while you're exploring the vast biomes. However, since underground caves are near-constantly dark, Endermen are far more likely to build Enderportals underground than on the surface anyway because they just have that much more time.

After that, the special requirement that an Enderman must die of burning in the portal to light reduces the odds that lava or somesuch will light it instead.

However, whilst that would greatly reduce the likelihood of unwanted Enderportals, I also think it would practically erase the threat as well. Any other ideas on how to resolve this problem?
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#9

yourRedBro
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Posted 23 September 2011 - 11:48 PM

I hope Notch makes those Ender Pearls craftable kind of like your idea of making you invisible, Like maybe attaching an Ender Pearl with a Blaze Rod (1.9 Pre-release Item) to make some sort of magic wand that allows you to teleport, buuuut the crafting idea I had in mind would be way to simple to make one since It would probably be very similar to all of our little friends of light! ( :Coal: +  :|: =  :--+: )

#10

AnonTheMouse
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Posted 24 September 2011 - 12:31 AM

I think there might be something to this. First thought is that I've seen other threads try to work in Crying Obsidian. Even I have. It seems to fit the bill for "Obsidian but different".

Let's give it some properties.

Crying Obsidian
  • Twice the durability of stone.
  • Blast resistance about 2/3 of Obsidian.
  • Glows when mobs or player is near (like redstone ore).
  • Can be used to create a Detector block, and a Redstone-powered light.
  • Can be made by player out of nine Ender Pearl.

So, let's say that they try to manufacture Crying Obsidian and make it into a portal. This gives them a goal. But how do they achieve it? Well, maybe they need to perform some ritual to create the Crying Obsidian they require. Maybe they need a place to do that. Maybe...an Ender Henge.

To make an Ender Henge, the Endermen begin by clearing out an area and leveling the ground out in an area. Then, they will create a ring of stone coulombs. Lastly, they build a wooden platform, and upon the platform they create a portal frame. Each time a frame block is placed, it transforms into Crying Obsidian. Once finished, a group of Endermen gather, one standing in the frame. From there it works as described in the OP. If the Enderman in the frame is looked at by the player, all the other Endermen look at the player as well. The "sacrifice" remains still when they look away, but the "acolytes" become hostile.

For limiting factors, Endemen work slowly. They will only build a portal in a finished henge, and will travel widely looking for "ideal" materials to take back for their construction. Lastly, when dawn comes, Endermen will stop still, turn to the east, and stare. In this state, they will ignore player attention, acting as though already focused on someone until the point when they would normally burn, at which point they instead drop whatever they were carrying and appear to teleport away (actually de-spawning). The only deviation from this would be the "sacrifice".

On a side note, maybe the Ender Portal need not have a new mob? It could simply act as a way to let Nether mobs into the overworld, possibly even creating a Nether mini-biome around itself, after the manner of the "Nether Corruption" that some have suggested.
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#11

Reesespices15
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Posted 24 September 2011 - 12:43 AM

I love the idea of endermen being conected to the nether and the ghasts being the wardens and all. But it would have to be programed so the portals were far enought away so that they wernt built into the sid of your house or the hill next to your mine.

#12

jkdragonfly
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Posted 24 September 2011 - 12:56 AM

Would be cool if there were (fairly rare) npc villages in the nether populated by the endermen but were friendly (or at least neutral) as it would be like their native home maybe explaining why most things on the surface hurt them (as it is not their native home) and maybe the surface ones are exiles?

Maybe you would be able to see them build certain structures in their town...
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#13

Tristen620

Posted 24 September 2011 - 01:06 AM

Earlier today I watched a video in another thread that did a timelapse of 200 minecraft years (1460000 minutes) and displayed the damage caused by endermen over time, the result was rather awesome, It would be neat if after the portal is created that an entire biome or two could be affected in that way like the world is being consumed and taken to the nether.

Link to the thread: The Link
**Note the video is worth a look as it's pretty darn cool.

    Back on topic for THIS thread I totally agree this would be really nice though I think that Endermen corruption should extend away from the portal at the rate of 1 block every day (up to a max of 500 block radius), only on exposed blocks though turning it into netherrack (which would be set so endermen would not bother it)

#14

Lyinginbedmon

Posted 24 September 2011 - 10:35 PM

Yeah, the Ender Experiment was a definite inspiration for this. I thought "Wow, leave the Endermen alone and they're basically the end of the world...wait a minute..."

View PostReesespices15, on 24 September 2011 - 12:43 AM, said:

I love the idea of endermen being conected to the nether and the ghasts being the wardens and all. But it would have to be programed so the portals were far enought away so that they wernt built into the sid of your house or the hill next to your mine.
Whilst I'm not sure it can be programmed easily for them to specifically avoid your house, it is definitely possible to limit their construction of portals in chunks and environments in order to greatly reduce the likelihood of such transpiring.

There's a few image macros for this idea up on reddit, but they're not getting nearly the same reaction as the thread itself. The first was an attempt at an Ender-meme if I may, the other two sort of try to illustrate the concept.
Posted Imagehttp://redd.it/kqd7g
Posted Imagehttp://redd.it/kqd6r
Posted Imagehttp://redd.it/kqd7g
If support gets drummed up more, given that the thread itself is getting around a 70% upvote, and reached the front page on its first day (right before 1.9...doy), I think we can get some real steam behind it.

Incidentally, you would not believe the trouble I had getting those Endermen to pose for a good shot...especially with the lava fall and the three independent streams of water in that cave.
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#15

razourik
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Posted 24 September 2011 - 10:38 PM

Endermen pick up blocks and they fight like motherfucking ninjas. They drop special objects that make you a slight bit immune to their ability. I don't think they need to be able to build nether portals too.\

This would be a great idea for a mod, but not for something to be added to the game itself.

#16

Lyinginbedmon

Posted 24 September 2011 - 10:40 PM

View Postrazourik, on 24 September 2011 - 10:38 PM, said:

Endermen pick up blocks and they fight like motherfucking ninjas. They drop special objects that make you a slight bit immune to their ability. I don't think they need to be able to build nether portals too.\

This would be a great idea for a mod, but not for something to be added to the game itself.
The Ender Pearl doesn't do anything right now, contrary to popular belief.

Also, if you have a bow, reasonable aim, and 2 arrows, they are very good targets. Hell it's fairly easy to beat them with a stone sword.

As for their movement of blocks, this is I think, short of having them actually build towering structures themselves, the logical conclusion for them. Their ability to move blocks is certainly an important aspect of their character, but right now it just causes severe irritation, so I think it needs to be put to some purpose.
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#17

razourik
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Posted 24 September 2011 - 10:48 PM

View PostLyinginbedmon, on 24 September 2011 - 10:40 PM, said:

The Ender Pearl doesn't do anything right now, contrary to popular belief.

Also, if you have a bow, reasonable aim, and 2 arrows, they are very good targets. Hell it's fairly easy to beat them with a stone sword.

I'm not saying they're hard to fight (sometimes they are) but they're very smart. If you swing at them they teleport away, and you can keep chasing them but they'll keep teleporting away. Then when you turn around to do something else, they'll teleport back to you and attack when you aren't looking.

Usually I just pick them off with a bow. :3

#18

Lyinginbedmon

Posted 24 September 2011 - 10:54 PM

Exactly, which means your original point of them fighting "lik motherfucking ninjas" doesn't really matter in the context of this. Which in turn leaves them with just "moving blocks", and my counter-point to it.

I think it's entirely possible for this to be included in vanilla Minecraft, provided of course special care is given to limit the number of times it causes problems for those who don't like it (though that seems to be dominantly solely due to the Endermen relation...) doing whatever they otherwise want.
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#19

Reesespices15
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Posted 24 September 2011 - 10:58 PM

This ties in perfectly with the new nether matereals that notch is putting into the game in 1.9!!!! you could have a house in the nether!!!

#20

Lyinginbedmon

Posted 24 September 2011 - 11:07 PM

View PostAnonTheMouse, on 24 September 2011 - 12:31 AM, said:

I think there might be something to this. First thought is that I've seen other threads try to work in Crying Obsidian. Even I have. It seems to fit the bill for "Obsidian but different".

Let's give it some properties.

Crying Obsidian
  • Twice the durability of stone.
  • Blast resistance about 2/3 of Obsidian.
  • Glows when mobs or player is near (like redstone ore).
  • Can be used to create a Detector block, and a Redstone-powered light.
  • Can be made by player out of nine Ender Pearl.

So, let's say that they try to manufacture Crying Obsidian and make it into a portal. This gives them a goal. But how do they achieve it? Well, maybe they need to perform some ritual to create the Crying Obsidian they require. Maybe they need a place to do that. Maybe...an Ender Henge.

To make an Ender Henge, the Endermen begin by clearing out an area and leveling the ground out in an area. Then, they will create a ring of stone coulombs. Lastly, they build a wooden platform, and upon the platform they create a portal frame. Each time a frame block is placed, it transforms into Crying Obsidian. Once finished, a group of Endermen gather, one standing in the frame. From there it works as described in the OP. If the Enderman in the frame is looked at by the player, all the other Endermen look at the player as well. The "sacrifice" remains still when they look away, but the "acolytes" become hostile.

For limiting factors, Endemen work slowly. They will only build a portal in a finished henge, and will travel widely looking for "ideal" materials to take back for their construction. Lastly, when dawn comes, Endermen will stop still, turn to the east, and stare. In this state, they will ignore player attention, acting as though already focused on someone until the point when they would normally burn, at which point they instead drop whatever they were carrying and appear to teleport away (actually de-spawning). The only deviation from this would be the "sacrifice".

On a side note, maybe the Ender Portal need not have a new mob? It could simply act as a way to let Nether mobs into the overworld, possibly even creating a Nether mini-biome around itself, after the manner of the "Nether Corruption" that some have suggested.
That certainly sounds like an exciting pre-boss battle scenario, though I'm not sure about the Crying Obsidian, or at least all of its qualities (the redstone blocks for example). Whatever the portal is made of should be a lot weaker than actual Obsidian, in order to allow its destruction early in gameplay.

I'm not entirely sure such complex behaviour can be readily coded into mobs at the moment, but I think instead of stone columns for the henge netherrack-tipped mossy cobblestone columns would be better (probably 2 blocks tall), especially if lit when placed. This would give a clear indication of Endermen activity at night, both from the light and the sound of fire burning.

Whilst the Nether mobs gaining access to the overworld is an interesting idea, I don't think it really has the same importance of preventing the Endermen from building the portal. Something more actively dangerous is needed, like the Enderlords.
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