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"Ultimate" Piston Elevator - Any Height, Up & Down, 2.5m/s


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74 replies to this topic

#1

DaftasBrush

Posted 03 July 2011 - 05:26 AM

Update: These designs have been superceeded by at least one of my new ones. Doesn't mean they're not worth looking at.. and there's quite a bit of "background" here.. that's not in the newer thread(s)
New Thread : Ultimate Piston Elevator (Mk4)

Title says it all really.. but just to recap...
Simple to build: 9x9 Internally Navigable, just need to "sneak" some while building
Expandable to any height: - Passenger can go from bedrock +4 to Skybox -5  (I think)
Goes both ways: that's Up and Down
Fast!: 4 ticks per block = 2.5 metres per second  (fastest I think any piston-pair can move)

Posted Image Posted Image

Quick Demo Video (by KillaMarci)


Mk1 9x9 "Round" Schematic : Mk1 Schematic File (Right hand image above)
Mk3 9x9 "Spikey" Schematic : Mk3 Schematic File (Left-hand image above)
World Download : Fresh new world with both Mk1 and Mk3
Right.. now that's all out of the way...  How does it work?

Laymans Terms (ish)
When you press the "Up" (or "Down") button 2 pulses are sent along a spiral path (one spiral does up, one does down). These pulses activate the pistons in the correct order and move up or down the spiral at the same speed as the pistons. So the same 2 pulses keep activating the same 2 pistons over and over all the way to the end.
The car is driven upwards by the pistons below it, so the "up" pulses are not required all the way to the very top, they can (should) stop 5 levels before. Similarly the down pulses should end 5 levels before the bottom.

Critical Design Elements
2 spiral signal paths - Only Partially Isolated (but not a problem.. at the moment)
"Up" signal on the inner track (Sandstone), "down" on the outer (cobblestone)
The drive signal consists of two 1-tick pulses separated by 6 ticks.
A single 1-tick pulse is fed into 2 wires, one goes to the start of the spiral, the other bypasses the first 6 repeaters.
The signals move up (or down) the spiral at the same speed as the pistons (4 ticks per block)
Because long-delay repeaters lengthen short pulses, four repeaters set to 1 are required for each level on each spiral.
Counter-intuitively, the pulse which activates the second piston move (sticky pulls non-sticky), is actually ahead on the spiral.

This design should be considered very much a "prototype" and not a finished polished final "thingy".
I'm sure there will be much discussion and revision and it may well be superceeded pretty quickly.
But I think it's a good start... Feel free to use it, abuse it, modify it for your own purposes.
If you use the design, no need to credit me (although it might be nice).. all I ask is..
Don't say you created it!

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#2

Builderboy2005

Posted 03 July 2011 - 05:40 AM

How does it work?  Would it be possible to post a video, or at least some sort of explanation of how it functions?  It is a bit difficult to tell simply from the pictures
Posted Image

#3

DaftasBrush

Posted 03 July 2011 - 05:52 AM

View PostBuilderboy2005, on 03 July 2011 - 05:40 AM, said:

How does it work?  Would it be possible to post a video, or at least some sort of explanation of how it functions?  It is a bit difficult to tell simply from the pictures
Sadly I'm unable to produce videos at more than about 2fps.. so that's out..

The pictures are only meant as a "teaser"..
I fully understand most folk aren't going to be able to build one from them.

Just doing some "tidying up", then I'll release a schematic file, so you can just drop a working sample into your world and have a look / play.
And I'll do a bit of a write up, explaining it..

#4

Hans Lemurson
  • Minecraft: Hans_Lemurson

Posted 03 July 2011 - 06:06 AM

That helical pattern is really interesting.  Does one helix contain the "UP" wiring, and the other one contain the "DOWN"?
Hans Lemurson's Thread of Links: http://www.minecraft...hread-of-links/
Look here to find links to my inventions, creations, and my Youtube channel featuring Amazing Creations of Mine (Redstone engineering FTW!!!) and charming Music-Videos about clones.  I also made "Minecraft in Minecraft" (2D platformer/building game).  I'm currently trying to make a computer.

#5

DaftasBrush

Posted 03 July 2011 - 06:28 AM

View PostHans Lemurson, on 03 July 2011 - 06:06 AM, said:

That helical pattern is really interesting.  Does one helix contain the "UP" wiring, and the other one contain the "DOWN"?
Yup.. the inner helix is doing "up", the outer "down".

Haven't been able to fully isolate them (from each other) and still connect them both to the pistons.
Inner is isolated from outer .. doesn't affect it at all
Outer does affect inner.. sends pulse back "up" when it's coming down... however it doesn't seem to be having any ill effects, since the pistons move down out of the way.. (just) before the stray signal reaches them.

#6

DaftasBrush

Posted 03 July 2011 - 09:08 AM

(OP updated with new schematic.. if it works.. skip this post
if it doesn't work.. check you've got the rev_b file.


BUT.. there might be a weird glitch / quirk / issue...
Let me tell you a story...

When I first built it.. it worked great.. I rode up and down loads of times testing it out..
I took a couple of screenies and started this thread.

Then.. I decided it needed some "tidying up" before a made the schematic file.
Mostly that involved removing the 1x1 towers of dirt I'd used during construction.. but I also tidyed up some of the wiring, and placed a few helpful signs around the place.

Just before I acutally made the schematic, I decided I'd test it one more time, in case I'd messed something up. And guess what.. it was broken!
"Down" still worked fine, but when it tried to go up the pistons "rattled" but the car didn't go anywhere. Figured I'd just messed up the rewiring.. checked it over.. seemed fine, checked it again in case I'd got a repeater set wrong.. nope.. everything looked good.

Finally tracked the symptom..
Where I'd had 2 seperate 1 tick pulses.. 101 in effect.. I now had a single 3 tick pulse.. 111
Odd.. seen similar before, but nothing in the circuit had changed..
As a "hail mary" I tried adding a repeater to delay one of the pulses .. it did delay it, but I got 1001

After much head scratching I "undid" as much of the wiring tidy-up as I could remember, and suddenly.. it all started working again.. got my 101.
Tested it a load of times.. works great again .. Exported the schematic

I always import the schematics into a different world before I upload.. mainly to check I've got the bounding box something like correct. I had.. but.. "up" had stopped working .. again.  <_<

The "source" one..in the original world. still functions perfectly.

So.. if you do grab the schematic.. pls let me know..
i) Does it work?.. in both directions?
ii) If not.. any idea what the "heck" is going on with these pulses?

Gonna start figuring out how to explain how it works (or should work) .. will post that later.

#7

Grizdale
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Posted 03 July 2011 - 09:26 AM

What you using for to produce your two 1 tick pulses?
also maybe cleansing the spirals so they don't interact with each other would be a good idea even if it doesn't help immediately it may help later on from what I can tell it shouldn't be to hard of a job.
Can this design be made into a 2*2 version instead of 1*1 it currently is?
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#8

DaftasBrush

Posted 03 July 2011 - 09:49 AM

View PostGrizdale, on 03 July 2011 - 09:26 AM, said:

What you using for to produce your two 1 tick pulses?
Essentially.. this
Posted Image

A critical bit of the design (which I'm currently trying to find a good way to explain)...
It needs 2 pulses running up the helix, but the "first" pulse has to skip the first piston.
Hence the above...
Currently looking at different ways to generate / combine these.. but it's just "trial and error" because I really don't know why sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.
NB: When it works, it seems to continue working "forever".. it only "breaks" when you change the wiring.. or something.

View PostGrizdale, on 03 July 2011 - 09:26 AM, said:

also maybe cleansing the spirals so they don't interact with each other would be a good idea even if it doesn't help immediately it may help later on from what I can tell it shouldn't be to hard of a job.
This point in the circuit is about 5 blocks below where the down pulses end.. but anyway.. I have tried, but could not find a good (any) way to get complete isolation.. it's all 1 tick pulses so you can't use torches.
And it doesn't seem to cause problems.. down pulses do crossover onto the up line, but only when there are down pulses, (when it's moving down).. and the crossover doesn't affect the downward motion.. that's always been fine.

View PostGrizdale, on 03 July 2011 - 09:26 AM, said:

Can this design be made into a 2*2 version instead of 1*1 it currently is?
Maybe, but doubtful.. I can't instantly think of a way.. but that (obviously) doesn't mean that there isn't one... but it's all pretty crowded in the middle.

#9

Kondie
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Posted 03 July 2011 - 10:05 AM

You should make the world available for download because I'm not understanding how you did this from the pictures.
ZzZzZz... W-Huh?

#10

KillaMarci

Posted 03 July 2011 - 10:22 AM

Yea I'd like the world file aswell, MCEdit gotta be my least favorite programm on earth :(
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#11

KillaMarci

Posted 03 July 2011 - 10:32 AM

Alright never mind, got it in my game. But, it's either not working correctly or I'm too stupid to use it properly? I'm uploading a quick video right now to demonstrate

Alright here it is:


(might still be processing, just wait a while)
I press the button and all it does is this. I don't see how I'm supposed to get on it to "ride" it either...
Posted Image

#12

weableandbob2

Posted 03 July 2011 - 10:39 AM

Looks really cool. Do you think you could upload the map file instead of the just schematics so that it's easier to see it in action and replicate it?

#13

DaftasBrush

Posted 03 July 2011 - 10:57 AM

@Everyone...

May have a solution to the problem (if not the cause / solution to the glitch itself)..
give me a minute.. if it works I'll upload a new schematic.

#14

KillaMarci

Posted 03 July 2011 - 11:35 AM

YouTube is taking AGES to process that video...<_<
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#15

DaftasBrush

Posted 03 July 2011 - 11:42 AM

Right.. sorted.. I hope!  

Made a small change to the design to remove it's susceptibility to this weird glitch, 'cos I still can't figure out what's actually causing the glitch.  :huh:

Tested it as far as I can.. (can be bothered)..
Imported the schematic into 2 worlds.. one existing but not the one it was created in, and a brand new one...
Worked fine in both.

Schematic File - Revision B

View PostKondie, on 03 July 2011 - 10:05 AM, said:

You should make the world available for download because I'm not understanding how you did this from the pictures.
&

View Postweableandbob2, on 03 July 2011 - 10:39 AM, said:

Looks really cool. Do you think you could upload the map file instead of the just schematics so that it's easier to see it in action and replicate it?

That's what the schematic file is for.  :rolleyes:
It's just a small chunk from my world, the bit with the elevator in, rather than the whole thing. Just grab MCEdit and import it into a convenient place in your world.
Then you can look / play around with it as much as you want.


View PostKillaMarci, on 03 July 2011 - 10:32 AM, said:

But, it's either not working correctly or I'm too stupid to use it properly? I'm uploading a quick video right now to demonstrate(might still be processing, just wait a while)I press the button and all it does is this. I don't see how I'm supposed to get on it to "ride" it either...
Video still "Unavailable".. but probably it's the problem we've been discussing for the last several posts... try the new schematic file.

#16

KillaMarci

Posted 03 July 2011 - 12:10 PM

Gonna try now, will report how it goes.
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#17

Sostratus

Posted 03 July 2011 - 12:14 PM

This is wonderful! I tried it and it works great. Brilliant design.

I also did some thinking about the requested 2x2 elevator. I haven't built a full one yet but I believe it is possible providing that it only stops on two floors. Let me explain.


A 2x2 elevator can be thought of as four 1x1 elevators next to each other. The added complication of this is that you can't apply circuitry to any side; you only have access to two sides of each 1x1 elevator. So first question: is it possible to operate the elevator from only one side?

Suppose this is a cross section of your elevator:

:Red: :arrow: :Furnace:
:stone: :stone:    :Green:  
:Red: :arrow: :--+:  
:stone: :stone: :wood:  
:Red: :arrow: :wood:  
:stone: :stone: :Blue:  
:Red: :arrow: :Green:  
:stone: :stone: :Furnace:  

Where:
:Red: = redstone wire
:arrow:  = repeater
:--+:  = glowstone
:wood:  = door
:Green: = sticky piston
:Furnace:  = piston
:stone:  = stone
:Blue:  = blue wool

With this layout, the repeater can activate pistons directly adjacent to it, or one below that. The problem occurs when both places are occupied by a piston. In this case, the game will choose which piston to activate based on which layer it is in (I believe its the piston in the even layer that gets activated). Either way, this will allow the elevator to move in one direction, but not the other.

So now that we know that doesn't work, what about working the elevator from two sides? Suppose instead of directly connecting the repeater to the piston we do this:

:Red: :arrow: :White: :Furnace:    

And do the same from the other side, but offset by one block vertically. This allows you to control precisely which piston you want to activate.

But what a second, if all sides of the elevator are covered in densely packed wiring, how will you get IN to the elevator? Here's where the first layout comes in handy. While the one-sided access only allows movement one way, at the top and bottom of the elevator only the top or bottom piston sets need to be moved. This means you can use the one-side wiring at the exits and make room to walk in and out.

Also, this means you could make a 2x1 glass elevator where all the wiring is on the sides and back. Unfortunately a 2x2 glass elevator is impossible, but one aesthetic bonus is that not even the elevator shaft will have exposed wiring, except for the very top and bottom.

Pretty proud of myself for figuring that out... assuming it's right. I'll give it a try.

#18

KillaMarci

Posted 03 July 2011 - 12:23 PM



Works like a charm now :) I suppose the only thing to do know is figure out how to make it look pretty, I wouldn't want something this bulky looking sitting around in my world. I guess it won't be possible to hide all of the wiring. :/
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#19

DaftasBrush

Posted 03 July 2011 - 03:02 PM

OP updated with some vague descriptions of what it does / how it works... so feel free to ask questions.

View PostSostratus, on 03 July 2011 - 12:14 PM, said:

This is wonderful! I tried it and it works great. Brilliant design.I also did some thinking about the requested 2x2 elevator.
- snip -
Pretty proud of myself for figuring that out... assuming it's right. I'll give it a try.
Let me know how you get on.. I might (maybe) have thought of a way to modify / extend it to handle 2x2, but no more than a "notion" at the moment.. haven't got anywhere near trying it.

View PostKillaMarci, on 03 July 2011 - 12:23 PM, said:

Works like a charm now :) I suppose the only thing to do know is figure out how to make it look pretty..
Jolly Good!.. as to making it pretty... NMP! (Not my problem)  :P
Oh.. I borrowed your vid for the OP.. hope you don't mind.  :D

#20

Kondie
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Posted 03 July 2011 - 03:49 PM

Noisy as hell, but pretty damn awesome. Nice job man.
ZzZzZz... W-Huh?