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[1.4.6] Eloraam's Mods (RedPower 2 Prerelease 6)


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#20361

Dreamlash

Posted 13 March 2012 - 11:29 PM

View PostAvTheGhettoMillenaire, on 13 March 2012 - 10:46 PM, said:

I miss this mod so much. Ive been checking religously for the update.

I waiting for IC2, TC2, and RP and I will happy forever D:
Posted Image  I´am The Queen :3

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#20362

Masau
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Posted 13 March 2012 - 11:52 PM

View PostDreamlash, on 13 March 2012 - 11:29 PM, said:

I waiting for IC2, TC2, and RP and I will happy forever D:
Or at least until 1.3 comes out right?

#20363

SwiftDeathSK
  • Minecraft: swiftdeathsk

Posted 14 March 2012 - 12:51 AM

Considering I'm moving within the month, and once I move I'll be in a long-term internet blackout... I really hope the mods I usually play (IC2, and this are the only ones not updated so far) will be updated soon...

On the plus side, I have every mod I've downloaded since beta 1.7, including backups of each .minecraft version since then as well, so I won't be screwed :)

#20364

SquareBoy

Posted 14 March 2012 - 01:19 AM

View PostJobs2k, on 13 March 2012 - 02:13 AM, said:

Seriously people, why is there so much talk of how difficult it is getting wool from flax?
It was great to have the ability when wool did not regrow on sheep but now this little set-up will automatically harvest stacks of wool with no real effort:
Spoiler:

Just stick some shears in the Deployer once you see your sheep holding on to their wool and it'll keep flowing.
lol, poor bugger. Cool idea though. Never would have thought of that one. Thanks for the flax automaton tips too, guys! I'll try both methods

#20365

CyberVVolf
  • Minecraft: CyberVVolf

Posted 14 March 2012 - 01:34 AM

View PostPeanutbutter29, on 13 March 2012 - 08:34 PM, said:

@CyberVVolf

I believe your numbers are a bit off.... I have re-checked mine listed above.   You can only check stabilized current when connected to a load (e.g.) furnace.  The output (un-loaded) will vary relative to the voltage it has "buffered" up to.

I've rechecked the numbers and I see a problem comparing test(We need some lab standard....).
If you check the thermopile with the voltmeter you get x-AMPS but when you check the load(battery or furnace) you get (x/2)-Amps.

Re-testing
2 water and 2 lava I've got ~.25A on the thermopile and ~0.125A on the furnace
3 water and 1 lava ~.38A ~.19A
2 Ice and 2 lava I've got ~1A on the thermopile and ~0.5A on the furnace

and still checking 4 water and 1 lava underneath I get ~0.5A on the thermopile and ~0.25A on the furnace
Even though they should work best when on opposing sides I still get best results (when using only water and lava) in the above combination.

Same goes with solar panels, ~2.00A on the panel and wire, ~1.0A on the furnace.

All the measurements were made after the Volts stabilized at 60V(In the test with the ice, I replaced water with ice after the voltage got to 60 it still jumped a bit but the readings were more or less stable)

(The furnaces had work = stack of cobble)

so...........
If you are sure that your measurements are correct than I don't know what I'm doing differently but best results that I get on my client are as above...
(unless I messed something in RP)

As far as I understand thermopile works opposite to the way a peltier-effect cooling cell works so having the heat and cold sources on opposite sides makes sense.

Posted Image


#20366

Peanutbutter29
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Posted 14 March 2012 - 02:54 AM

View PostCyberVVolf, on 14 March 2012 - 01:34 AM, said:

I've rechecked the numbers and I see a problem comparing test(We need some lab standard....).
If you check the thermopile with the voltmeter you get x-AMPS but when you check the load(battery or furnace) you get (x/2)-Amps.

Re-testing
2 water and 2 lava I've got ~.25A on the thermopile and ~0.125A on the furnace
3 water and 1 lava ~.38A ~.19A
2 Ice and 2 lava I've got ~1A on the thermopile and ~0.5A on the furnace

and still checking 4 water and 1 lava underneath I get ~0.5A on the thermopile and ~0.25A on the furnace
Even though they should work best when on opposing sides I still get best results (when using only water and lava) in the above combination.

Same goes with solar panels, ~2.00A on the panel and wire, ~1.0A on the furnace.

All the measurements were made after the Volts stabilized at 60V(In the test with the ice, I replaced water with ice after the voltage got to 60 it still jumped a bit but the readings were more or less stable)

(The furnaces had work = stack of cobble)

so...........
If you are sure that your measurements are correct than I don't know what I'm doing differently but best results that I get on my client are as above...
(unless I messed something in RP)
As far as I understand thermopile works opposite to the way a peltier-effect cooling cell works so having the heat and cold sources on opposite sides makes sense.

I agree with needing a standard for testing.  For me all test cases were 8 series horizontal connected Thermopiles with a single wire off one end.  2 Sections of Alloy wire were used before furnace connection.  I let Voltage build up to maximum before "starting" furnace.  (100.41v-100.90v depending on config and 0A).  Then a stack of items was placed into furnace (sand) and the furnace was run until the wire Directly behind the furnace was Stable with Volts (a few minutes).  Because of being too little power, but enough to slowly drive.  All tests balanced to 60v.  Then, in a series connection.....the most accurate measurement for the Thermopile is the first one (farthest away from wire).  If you test each in a series (1water/1lava) youget .12A, however each additional will only add .10 to the increase;  Testing a line of 8 still gives 1A.

So, for me start was max V and no A, run until stable..  Measures ONLY taken from first thermopile and wire behind furnace.

-Now it seems your first number from the re-check does match mine (Red Above) with 2 lava and 2 water being .25A.
-As for 3 water and one lava I did not test this;  as it does not create a difference on one "side pair". So only 1 pair should function and be slightly higher than .125
-With Ice /Lava I had to setup a Deployer for each Ice and a Breaker / Transposer for the lava obsidian issue. but I did only note the .45 per thermopile.

I Suppose also , I have tested the 1 water / 1 lava;  along with 2 water / 2 lava in larger sets.  It does prove to be linear when tested as described.  (e.g. 1set x 8 = 1A , x16 = 2A etc.) (e.g.- 2set x8 =2A, x16 = 4A, x 24 =6A)
I guess this is why I also figured the numbers correct since they scale.

I did test only having one temp source also (which is another reason to not test 3 water / 1 lava) e.g. 1 water only or 1 lava only.  In which case outputs were close to nil.

Lastly  to help clear things up.  A thermopile was the original name given to a junction of 2 dissimilar metals that produce electricity when there was a temperature difference between them.  This was waaay back 100 years ago, when a Capacitor was a Condenser.  There was nothing done with this knowledge until the mid 80's when TEM's were invented.  These "ThermoElectric Modules"  are actually hundreds of these junctions (formerly known as) thermopiles.  There are hundreds per square inch in modern modules.  
   In all cases these are referred to as a "heat pump".  When using TEM's, power is applied (DC) and one side of the module heats and the other cools (usually 50-70C Delta).   There are TEGs (thermoelectric generators) that are designed to handle high temps and use different junction materials.  These need pretty large heat Deltas(150-200C) to produce, but do produce power (50w +/-).  So I guess, since you need many junctions, RP is a TEG.
  Either mode of operation it's still a (now) thermoelectric junction.  It can be run both ways.  But it's always based on opposing sides.

I suppose Eloraam may have to give the final verdict on about whether her code requires the opposing difference or not.

Thanks
PB
Can you mod?  Need ideas?
http://www.minecraft...as-for-modders/

#20367

tubera
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Posted 14 March 2012 - 06:36 AM

edit: forget this, I remember incorrectly
Posted Image

#20368

jreames
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Posted 14 March 2012 - 09:51 AM

View PostPaulifan1000, on 14 March 2012 - 09:29 AM, said:

when comes the update. I want to load this plugin together with computercraft

In due time

Spoiler:

Note: the above format was inspired by "InvisiClues™"


#20369

tubera
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Posted 14 March 2012 - 03:59 PM

Did some backtracking: according to Elo
Lava => 100 heat
fire => 25 heat
torches => 5 heat
jack-o-lantern => 3 heat

Ice block=> 100 cold
Snow block=> 100 cold
snow (layer) => 50 cold (got adjusted after the snowman abuse, was 25 originally)
water => 25 cold

if total cold >= 200 then the lava will solidify ie a source block will become obsidian, a flowing block will become basalt.
if heat>=100 snow and ice blocks will melt into water, snow layer will dissipate.

the lowest of heat-cold either heat or cold will decide the current. So the best result will probably be 1 lava 1 fire and 3 snow layers generated by snowmen (so they get recreated when they've dissipated) This will not work in the nether as snowlayers cannot exist there. ie you'll want to keep the heat below 100 so your snow and ice blocks won't melt. ie 3 fires 1 torch and 1 ice/snow block
Posted Image

#20370

CyberVVolf
  • Minecraft: CyberVVolf

Posted 14 March 2012 - 05:24 PM

View PostPeanutbutter29, on 14 March 2012 - 02:54 AM, said:

...

So, for me start was max V and no A, run until stable..  Measures ONLY taken from first thermopile and wire behind furnace.

-Now it seems your first number from the re-check does match mine (Red Above) with 2 lava and 2 water being .25A.
-As for 3 water and one lava I did not test this;  as it does not create a difference on one "side pair". So only 1 pair should function and be slightly higher than .125

...

Lastly  to help clear things up.  A thermopile was the original name given to a junction of 2 dissimilar metals that produce electricity...

I suppose Eloraam may have to give the final verdict on about whether her code requires the opposing difference or not.

Thanks
PB

Rebuilt your setup, the test with your combinations give the same results as you got BUT it does seem that in RP it only looks at the Temp Diff since trying 3vs1 as I did gives higher yield and 4vs1 even higher. I also tested what tubera suggested (results below) which gives even more Amps.

If I'm not mistaken (I'm between lectures right now don't have time to check) the basic TC component/cell (one couple) output is in mW so I wonder how many are in one module and what size it is to give 50W.
(Though everything today is miniaturized so I guess there could be hundreds of them in a few cm^2)
Thanks for the insight.



View Posttubera, on 14 March 2012 - 03:59 PM, said:

...

the lowest of heat-cold will decide the current. So the best result will probably be 1 lava 1 fire and 3 snow layers generated by snowmen (so they get recreated when they've dissipated) This will not work in the nether as snowlayers cannot exist there. ie you'll want to keep the heat below 100 so your snow and ice blocks won't melt. ie 3 fires 1 torch and 1 ice/snow block

I wasn't watching this thread much up until recently so I missed the figures you are referring to so thanks for that.

I've just tested the setup with snowman and I get around ~0.625A with a furnace as load (at 60V), so its higher then the 4Water vs 1 Lava that I've built (~0.5A @ 60V), but since you have to make sure the snow golems stay in, the whole construction is rather bulky so I think on the practical side the checkerboard design with 4 water and 1 lava is a better stable solution and a bit easier to wire.

Looks like the final current is decided not only by heat-cold but also by how high the heat initially  is, since 4 golems and 1 lava give ~0.5A which is the same as 4 water and 1 lava.

P.S:When I'll have time I'll retest this on a clean install of only RP2. Since my current install has a bunch of mods inside the jar (Server related, usually I put everything in the mods folder).

P.S.S: Sorry for the trouble with this lengthy discussion! :)

Posted Image


#20371

lizardtongue

Posted 14 March 2012 - 05:53 PM

View PostCyberVVolf, on 14 March 2012 - 05:24 PM, said:

Spoiler:
P.S.S: Sorry for the trouble with this lengthy discussion! Posted Image

Given a choice of discussion on getting the most from a part of RP2 or the discussions of individuals having install issues... I'll take getting the most for 200.

Remember: There 10 kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who do not.


#20372

RolfWolf
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Posted 14 March 2012 - 06:08 PM

I hope the update is coming soon i really like this mod and i miss it!!

also waiting for ic2 :(

#20373

Gamestar1313
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Posted 14 March 2012 - 06:33 PM

View PostApogee137, on 13 March 2012 - 10:13 PM, said:

I'm really not sure what you mean.  More explanation needed.  Also, did you read the original post that this one is well down the road from?  If not, here it is.  This may help you understand where I'm coming from, since this post was intended mostly for Eloraam, who will know where I'm coming from. :-)

Do you mean when the block is removed?
Posted Image
"If English is your first language, please have at least a basic understanding of how it works." Organum11548

#20374

Eloraam
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Posted 14 March 2012 - 06:46 PM

View PostCyberVVolf, on 14 March 2012 - 05:24 PM, said:

If I'm not mistaken (I'm between lectures right now don't have time to check) the basic TC component/cell (one couple) output is in mW so I wonder how many are in one module and what size it is to give 50W.
(Though everything today is miniaturized so I guess there could be hundreds of them in a few cm^2)
Thanks for the insight.

As many as can be fit into undulating folds on a device 1m on a side -> tons of them Posted Image

Also, for those asking about updates, I've had 1.2.3 running internally for a while but I've run into a few API bugs along the way.  As it stands, worldgen on SMP is completely broken due to a bug in ModLoaderMP.

So I *am* working on an update, and it shouldn't be too much longer, but my release date has been pushed out repeatedly by changes and bugs in the APIs I use.
Posted Image

#20375

Holty07
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Posted 14 March 2012 - 07:12 PM

Noticed the twitter feed on the blog and enjoyed checking the update pictures on there! Keep them flowing!
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#20376

Timmie3054

Posted 14 March 2012 - 07:16 PM

Possible to maybe add a option in the config to disable Block Breakers from breaking cobblestone? Or at least let it break the cobblestone but not actually send the drop out the other end.

Having some issues with people abusing the block breakers with cobblestone generators.

#20377

malfunctionMC
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Posted 14 March 2012 - 08:01 PM

View PostTimmie3054, on 14 March 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

Possible to maybe add a option in the config to disable Block Breakers from breaking cobblestone? Or at least let it break the cobblestone but not actually send the drop out the other end.

Having some issues with people abusing the block breakers with cobblestone generators.

how about not inviting those types of people onto your server... griefers gonna grief any way they can, blocking one thing will just make them find something else to grief you with.

Redpower - Making control of your Minecraft world a whole lot easier... or as complex as you want to!
Posted Image


#20378

OvermindDL1

Posted 14 March 2012 - 08:10 PM

View PostTimmie3054, on 14 March 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

Possible to maybe add a option in the config to disable Block Breakers from breaking cobblestone? Or at least let it break the cobblestone but not actually send the drop out the other end.

Having some issues with people abusing the block breakers with cobblestone generators.

View PostmalfunctionMC, on 14 March 2012 - 08:01 PM, said:

how about not inviting those types of people onto your server... griefers gonna grief any way they can, blocking one thing will just make them find something else to grief you with.

Or just do what I did, I made an SMP finite fluids system, and cobble gens actually eat lava to make cobble (you get 8 cobble per lava right now, thinking of rebalancing).  It still 'flows' like normal MC water so waterways to carry items and so forth still work fine, but source blocks can, for example, just flow right off an edge, fun watching an ocean fill up a ravine in a lagless manner (at least on my server, tweakable throttling too).  I am currently porting it to 1.2.3, anyone be interested in a copy?  It also adds a Dwarf Fortress style Screw Pump to handle the fluids for note.

#20379

tubera
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Posted 14 March 2012 - 09:26 PM

View PostCyberVVolf, on 14 March 2012 - 05:24 PM, said:

Looks like the final current is decided not only by heat-cold but also by how high the heat initially  is, since 4 golems and 1 lava give ~0.5A which is the same as 4 water and 1 lava.

like i said output is determined by the lowest value of heat/cold, in both situations you create 100 heat. Cold is 200 in situation 1 (which will eventually solidify your lava block) and 100 in situation 2. the lowest value in both cases is 100, so they'll output the same current. and looking at the result from the 3 snowman setup, it looks like there's a multiplication factor of 0.005. (3 snowmen = 150, 1 lava+ 1 fire = 125 => 125*0.005 = 0.625) coincidence? I think not.


edit: I see my mistake I used a dash as a separator between heat and cold, which easily can be mistaken for a minus sign.
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#20380

Apogee137

Posted 14 March 2012 - 09:35 PM

View PostGamestar1313, on 14 March 2012 - 06:33 PM, said:

Do you mean when the block is removed?

Do I mean what when which block is removed from what? ;-)