although I personally prefer to use the upcoming pistons instead of just plain red-stone (think about what happens when you drop red-stone into water...)
Do you mean using pistons in the crafting recipe? I don't really think that would be better then redstone, because pistons really wouldn't fit in the pipes, pistons wouldn't be able to make liquid move very well (how does something that only pushes in one direction cause water to move in a continuous stream?), and the wood of pistons would not mix well with water and especially not lava.
Besides, the redstone wouldn't touch the water anymore than the wires for electricity used for modern pumps touches the water flowing through.
and to have a more balanced 1 to 1 crafting ratio.
Do you mean 1:1 pipes to times crafted or 1:1 pipes to iron? 1:1 pipes to times crafted is far too few (it would be nearly impossible to make anything useful with pipes without inventory editing because even small scale constructions would take hundreds if not thousands of iron). 1:1 pipes to iron wouldn't be as bad, however it would make it harder to make a lot of things.
The rain pipes and pumps already would take 1 iron per pipe, those are the ones that are really important. I don't see what is to be gained by increasing the regular pipe's cost because the only thing those do is aid in transportation of liquid rather than having any specific effect.
Also, I think you should be able to make 'tanks' by making 2x2x2 or larger clumps of piping, which could be used as infinite liquid sources.
That is what barrels would be for (see earlier comments, I suggested them in there, I'll add them in the main post under a "possibilities" section later and ask in the next poll.)
What is much easier is to make it possible to run water pipes through a furnace and get 'Steam' out the other end.
Only if the furnace had fuel in it already. Otherwise, having a lava pipe and a water pipe on a furnace makes steam for one empty pipe to become a steam pipe.
That eliminates oil (which is just too controversial)
By the way the poll is looking, it appears that only a few don't want oil. If oil gets a 2/3 majority, I think it is wanted enough that I will keep it on the original post, although it is ultimately up to Notch & Team to decide.
Maybe, pumping lava through rain pipes could start fires occasionally, and make more things burn, if they got started.
Examples: bookshelves, workbenches, fences.
Maybe the only way to get steam would be raining lava on water.
I have thought in depth about pipes ever since my friend showed me his sewer system in singleplayer. This is a great explanation of pipes and has lots of new and inventive ideas. Steam and oil I am not sure about yet, but the pumps, glass pipes, and rain pipes are all great . One thing that I think would make it better was if you could make vertical pipes as well as horizontal pipes, making it so that you could craft bends and splits instead of having to use large pipes (which i believe to be unnecessary). also, I think the Pump recipe should make 4 pumps instead of 8, and i think hatch pipes should be added. these are activated by redstone and can open and close, making in so that you didn't have to use pumps all the time.
here are some recipes:
= trapdoor = pipe = vertical pipe = redstone
Vertical pipes
Hatch pipes
Hatch pipes variant
Bend pipes
-bend pipes would probably be affected by the direction they are placed from, just like stairs.
Split pipes
-you could also make vertical pumps and vertical hatch pipes, but you should be able to figure out the recipes for those.
I have thought in depth about pipes ever since my friend showed me his sewer system in singleplayer. This is a great explanation of pipes and has lots of new and inventive ideas. Steam and oil I am not sure about yet, but the pumps, glass pipes, and rain pipes are all great . One thing that I think would make it better was if you could make vertical pipes as well as horizontal pipes, making it so that you could craft bends and splits instead of having to use large pipes (which i believe to be unnecessary). also, I think the Pump recipe should make 4 pumps instead of 8, and i think hatch pipes should be added. these are activated by redstone and can open and close, making in so that you didn't have to use pumps all the time.
here are some recipes:
= trapdoor = pipe = vertical pipe = redstone
Vertical pipes
Hatch pipes
Hatch pipes variant
Bend pipes
-bend pipes would probably be affected by the direction they are placed from, just like stairs.
Split pipes
-you could also make vertical pumps and vertical hatch pipes, but you should be able to figure out the recipes for those.
Vertical pipes and turn pipes would be made by placing pipes together. They would attach together like putting a block structure together, and would act like rails when deciding when to turn.
Hatch pipes seem redundant. I don't see the problem with just using pumps for valves.
Split pipes would be nice, but raise quite a few issues. A player could build a network of split pipes and regular pipes to get hundreds of pipes with fluid flowing through them from a single source. To prevent this, there would need to be different amounts of fluid in each pipe. Combining fluid from 8-16 sources would reach the maximum level. If a pipe splits off in 2 directions and a level 4 fluid is flowing through, each pipe would receive a level 2 flow. Another problem arises with uneven divides, like if the pipe is splitting off in 3 different directions and a level 5 flow is going through. Either the pipe could just "ignore" 2 levels of it and only put 1 through each, or do further calculations to determine a suitable fraction. since computers operate in decimal 1/8-1/16 at its smallest might work. Some would still be lost but not nearly as much.
All "transactions" would be between pipe sections (separated by pumps), not individual pipe pieces.
It might be too much as far as lag goes, although it would add more to pipes.
1) I don't like the idea to use iron for this. Iron is already way overused in the game. Clay was mentioned before by arirish which is a good option but currently too rare. Copper ore would be a possibility, but I'm reluctant to support introduction of yet another ore.
2) Item intake. I don't think steam should transport items in the way you describe.
Instead I would say that any item dropped in the water source block which is adjacent to the pipe intake will be sucked in and transported. If a water/lava pipe ends in an opening it will act as a water/lava source which cannot be collected (as if the fluid dropped in from the block directly above it). Any item transported (water only) would be moved to inside this stream.
For allocator compatibility, have the item stream onto a pressure plate with an allocator next to it. It is better to not hardcode block compositions but provide the player with sufficient tools to be creative.
There are two major issues here which need to be resolved.
First, where are items transported if a pipe branches?
Second, only a limited amount of chunks is loaded at any one time, this will lose the item if it travels out of chunk range. How is this addressed? Perhaps a maximum distance of 6-9 chunks horizontally.
3) While steampowered mechanisms is about the limit of how advanced Minecraft technology should get in my opinion, I'm not convinced by the use-cases for oil/steam in this proposal. If steam is put in, I would say the rain pipe would leak steam and damage whoever passes the block. The rain pipes need stronger use-cases, especially for lava.
4) I don't like the idea of snowpipes. As long as we can make infinite water sources, I don't see the need for the barrel either. Finally, no support from me for the obsidian generator. From the current way Minecraft works, it is more logical to expect that setup to create cobblestone.
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Support the Allocator! Find my inventions such as my pressure plate removal detector on the About Me page of my profile.
I'm still looking for more feedback on my configurable Redstone Gate mod. All gates and common circuits (such as e.g. clocks, edge detectors, latches and Flip-Flops) in a single block.
1) I don't like the idea to use iron for this. Iron is already way overused in the game. Clay was mentioned before by arirish which is a good option but currently too rare. Copper ore would be a possibility, but I'm reluctant to support introduction of yet another ore.
I don't think something being used a lot already is a good reason to not make it used more. If another material was in the game (such as copper) then it might be good to make that used for pipes, but since iron seems to be the best option in-game, I will stick with iron.
2) Item intake. I don't think steam should transport items in the way you describe.
Instead I would say that any item dropped in the water source block which is adjacent to the pipe intake will be sucked in and transported. If a water/lava pipe ends in an opening it will act as a water/lava source which cannot be collected (as if the fluid dropped in from the block directly above it). Any item transported (water only) would be moved to inside this stream.
For allocator compatibility, have the item stream onto a pressure plate with an allocator next to it. It is better to not hardcode block compositions but provide the player with sufficient tools to be creative.
Allocators and dispensers directly hooked up to a pipe would send the item into the pipe for a small distance (which could be extended indefinitely onwards using steam and water) if pipes can split.
Second, only a limited amount of chunks is loaded at any one time, this will lose the item if it travels out of chunk range. How is this addressed? Perhaps a maximum distance of 6-9 chunks horizontally.
Redstone loads even past the view distance, so pipes could too. Although there would have to be a certain distance where it stops, and if the player goes closer it continues on its journey.
3) While steampowered mechanisms is about the limit of how advanced Minecraft technology should get in my opinion, I'm not convinced by the use-cases for oil/steam in this proposal. If steam is put in, I would say the rain pipe would leak steam and damage whoever passes the block. The rain pipes need stronger use-cases, especially for lava.
I'm not sure about damage, but a large cloud of steam would erupt around the rain pipes. Mobs would avoid steam but players could walk through.
4) I don't like the idea of snowpipes. As long as we can make infinite water sources, I don't see the need for the barrel either. Finally, no support from me for the obsidian generator. From the current way Minecraft works, it is more logical to expect that setup to create cobblestone.
What is wrong with snowpipes? Barrels would be to compact sources for pipes. That setup could produce cobblestone, but some might like it to produce obsidian (I'll ask in the next poll).
Although one stipulation, if oil was a fluid, I'd prefer if you gave the laws of oil physics.
A lot of those make sense (and I agree fully with no vehicles), but why make oil only spread one block from where it lands? A lava-type flow (minus the fluid staying behind after the source is taken away) might work better. Also, 2x suffocation doesn't make sense. You wouldn't run out of air faster in oil.
And I think it would be best if fire on oil lit all oil 1 block around it then went out. The fire wouldn't spread backwards, so this would form an ever expanding diamond of fire. This would allow for neat displays and traps. The oil wouldn't be lost.
I know, I know, it's rare. But I want clay to be less rare, and clay pipes. I'm not whining, honest...
Loving this thread though. Great stuff.
I say gold on the pump. Or notch adds some more metals like copper, tin, and bronze to make pipes from.
I thought of what the rain pipe would do with lava. Traps. when a thief steps on a pressure plate to open the iron door on your (fake)treasure room, it activates a pump. It sends magma into the rain pipe in the ceiling of the room, raining a fiery, painful death to the victim.
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Quote from spineyrequiem »
You can't make metre cubed pieces of rock get jiggy with each other, that's just WRONG.
I say gold on the pump. Or notch adds some more metals like copper, tin, and bronze to make pipes from.
I thought of what the rain pipe would do with lava. Traps. when a thief steps on a pressure plate to open the iron door on your (fake)treasure room, it activates a pump. It sends magma into the rain pipe in the ceiling of the room, raining a fiery, painful death to the victim.
The problem with gold for the pump is it wouldn't blend well with a stretch of iron piping. Perhaps gold instead of the redstone, but it would still be mostly/all iron looking and still require the 6 iron to make.
And, yes, the lava though rain pipes should produce "lava rain" which would damage the player as if they were standing in lava and catch mobs and the player on fire. It would also boil away water below it, which would release a lot of steam.
I like this idea, but have one question- What would steam do? would it cause damage over time, like boiling people alive, or would it just block visibility. I think steam could spread like upsidown water, but filling up a space. That way, it could add a time limit, eventually killing people, but giving them time to try to escape.
The problem with upside down water would be that the steam would just travel straight up if it didn't meet any obtrusions. It would have to be able to spread slightly as it travels upwards, but not become a huge cloud. Preferably, it would start to taper off after it traveled a few blocks upwards.
As opposed to this as to the hypothetical introduction of windmills or solar panels or nuclear reactors. It's too specific and in-depth for its own good. So much so it's just antithetical to the simplicity of Minecraft. I say so fully aware of what can be done with redstone; I think the two are very different. By comparison, your suggestion is rather frivolous seeing as redstone can be used for so many more purposes and it does so with far more simple ingredients.
Then, do you have a suggestion as to how it could be simplified? Pipes are rather similar to redstone with the pump pipes and regular ones. Glass pipes are not necessary, they're just for aesthetics. Rain pipes would be like pistons when comparing to redstone, they're powered by pipes to do something. Large pipes could probably be cut out, I'll set up a poll regarding whether they should be kept or forgotten when I have more time.
If you're talking about how complicated the water, lava, oil, steam, etc. is, it won't end up as simple as redstone no matter what is done. If someone didn't want to bother using it because of the complexity, they wouldn't have to anyway.
I would love to illuminate my Netherology Lab (in the Nether, of course) with glowing iron pipes full of lava. Kinda like the Dwemer Ruins from TES III.
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I own a small communist island nation. We will crush the capitalist imperialism of the west.
Do you mean using pistons in the crafting recipe? I don't really think that would be better then redstone, because pistons really wouldn't fit in the pipes, pistons wouldn't be able to make liquid move very well (how does something that only pushes in one direction cause water to move in a continuous stream?), and the wood of pistons would not mix well with water and especially not lava.
Besides, the redstone wouldn't touch the water anymore than the wires for electricity used for modern pumps touches the water flowing through.
Do you mean 1:1 pipes to times crafted or 1:1 pipes to iron? 1:1 pipes to times crafted is far too few (it would be nearly impossible to make anything useful with pipes without inventory editing because even small scale constructions would take hundreds if not thousands of iron). 1:1 pipes to iron wouldn't be as bad, however it would make it harder to make a lot of things.
The rain pipes and pumps already would take 1 iron per pipe, those are the ones that are really important. I don't see what is to be gained by increasing the regular pipe's cost because the only thing those do is aid in transportation of liquid rather than having any specific effect.
That is what barrels would be for (see earlier comments, I suggested them in there, I'll add them in the main post under a "possibilities" section later and ask in the next poll.)
Only if the furnace had fuel in it already. Otherwise, having a lava pipe and a water pipe on a furnace makes steam for one empty pipe to become a steam pipe.
By the way the poll is looking, it appears that only a few don't want oil. If oil gets a 2/3 majority, I think it is wanted enough that I will keep it on the original post, although it is ultimately up to Notch & Team to decide.
I don't really understand what you mean... can you elaborate?
Pipes
Examples: bookshelves, workbenches, fences.
Maybe the only way to get steam would be raining lava on water.
http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1239805-duplicate-enchantment-id/page__p__15111676#entry15111676
here are some recipes:
= trapdoor = pipe = vertical pipe = redstone
Vertical pipes
Hatch pipes
Hatch pipes variant
Bend pipes
-bend pipes would probably be affected by the direction they are placed from, just like stairs.
Split pipes
-you could also make vertical pumps and vertical hatch pipes, but you should be able to figure out the recipes for those.
Vertical pipes and turn pipes would be made by placing pipes together. They would attach together like putting a block structure together, and would act like rails when deciding when to turn.
Hatch pipes seem redundant. I don't see the problem with just using pumps for valves.
Split pipes would be nice, but raise quite a few issues. A player could build a network of split pipes and regular pipes to get hundreds of pipes with fluid flowing through them from a single source. To prevent this, there would need to be different amounts of fluid in each pipe. Combining fluid from 8-16 sources would reach the maximum level. If a pipe splits off in 2 directions and a level 4 fluid is flowing through, each pipe would receive a level 2 flow. Another problem arises with uneven divides, like if the pipe is splitting off in 3 different directions and a level 5 flow is going through. Either the pipe could just "ignore" 2 levels of it and only put 1 through each, or do further calculations to determine a suitable fraction. since computers operate in decimal 1/8-1/16 at its smallest might work. Some would still be lost but not nearly as much.
All "transactions" would be between pipe sections (separated by pumps), not individual pipe pieces.
It might be too much as far as lag goes, although it would add more to pipes.
Pipes
As for the splits: it happens in real life, doesn't it?
2) Item intake. I don't think steam should transport items in the way you describe.
Instead I would say that any item dropped in the water source block which is adjacent to the pipe intake will be sucked in and transported. If a water/lava pipe ends in an opening it will act as a water/lava source which cannot be collected (as if the fluid dropped in from the block directly above it). Any item transported (water only) would be moved to inside this stream.
For allocator compatibility, have the item stream onto a pressure plate with an allocator next to it. It is better to not hardcode block compositions but provide the player with sufficient tools to be creative.
There are two major issues here which need to be resolved.
4) I don't like the idea of snowpipes. As long as we can make infinite water sources, I don't see the need for the barrel either. Finally, no support from me for the obsidian generator. From the current way Minecraft works, it is more logical to expect that setup to create cobblestone.
I'm still looking for more feedback on my configurable Redstone Gate mod. All gates and common circuits (such as e.g. clocks, edge detectors, latches and Flip-Flops) in a single block.
I don't think something being used a lot already is a good reason to not make it used more. If another material was in the game (such as copper) then it might be good to make that used for pipes, but since iron seems to be the best option in-game, I will stick with iron.
Allocators and dispensers directly hooked up to a pipe would send the item into the pipe for a small distance (which could be extended indefinitely onwards using steam and water) if pipes can split.
It would be random.
Redstone loads even past the view distance, so pipes could too. Although there would have to be a certain distance where it stops, and if the player goes closer it continues on its journey.
I'm not sure about damage, but a large cloud of steam would erupt around the rain pipes. Mobs would avoid steam but players could walk through.
What is wrong with snowpipes? Barrels would be to compact sources for pipes. That setup could produce cobblestone, but some might like it to produce obsidian (I'll ask in the next poll).
Pipes
Although one stipulation, if oil was a fluid, I'd prefer if you gave the laws of oil physics.
A lot of those make sense (and I agree fully with no vehicles), but why make oil only spread one block from where it lands? A lava-type flow (minus the fluid staying behind after the source is taken away) might work better. Also, 2x suffocation doesn't make sense. You wouldn't run out of air faster in oil.
And I think it would be best if fire on oil lit all oil 1 block around it then went out. The fire wouldn't spread backwards, so this would form an ever expanding diamond of fire. This would allow for neat displays and traps. The oil wouldn't be lost.
Pipes
I say gold on the pump. Or notch adds some more metals like copper, tin, and bronze to make pipes from.
I thought of what the rain pipe would do with lava. Traps. when a thief steps on a pressure plate to open the iron door on your (fake)treasure room, it activates a pump. It sends magma into the rain pipe in the ceiling of the room, raining a fiery, painful death to the victim.
The problem with gold for the pump is it wouldn't blend well with a stretch of iron piping. Perhaps gold instead of the redstone, but it would still be mostly/all iron looking and still require the 6 iron to make.
And, yes, the lava though rain pipes should produce "lava rain" which would damage the player as if they were standing in lava and catch mobs and the player on fire. It would also boil away water below it, which would release a lot of steam.
Pipes
The problem with upside down water would be that the steam would just travel straight up if it didn't meet any obtrusions. It would have to be able to spread slightly as it travels upwards, but not become a huge cloud. Preferably, it would start to taper off after it traveled a few blocks upwards.
Pipes
Not more than redstone does. If you're talking about steam, then not more than water flows do.
Pipes
Then, do you have a suggestion as to how it could be simplified? Pipes are rather similar to redstone with the pump pipes and regular ones. Glass pipes are not necessary, they're just for aesthetics. Rain pipes would be like pistons when comparing to redstone, they're powered by pipes to do something. Large pipes could probably be cut out, I'll set up a poll regarding whether they should be kept or forgotten when I have more time.
If you're talking about how complicated the water, lava, oil, steam, etc. is, it won't end up as simple as redstone no matter what is done. If someone didn't want to bother using it because of the complexity, they wouldn't have to anyway.
Pipes