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Pipes- In Detail!


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Poll: What is your opinion on oil? (47 member(s) have cast votes)

What is your opinion on oil?

  1. I think it should be as described. (20 votes [42.55%])

    Percentage of vote: 42.55%

  2. I think it should still be oil and work like was described, but have it have special properties so it feels less modern (ex. making slimes spawn around oil) (9 votes [19.15%])

    Percentage of vote: 19.15%

  3. I think it should work like was described but be different otherwise (ex. having slime instead of oil, and make it green, spawn slimes, slow mobs, etc.) (9 votes [19.15%])

    Percentage of vote: 19.15%

  4. I think it should not exist in any form and nothing should work like it. (9 votes [19.15%])

    Percentage of vote: 19.15%

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#1

Lord Penguin
  • Location: Antartica
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Posted 06 May 2011 - 10:57 PM

I know that there are already threads for pipes, but none go into detail on pipes. The pipes would be placed like tracks (but in 3d), act like redstone, but have many things unique to them.

TABLE OF CONTENTS
Crafting Recipies
Pipe Descriptions
Water, Lava, Oil Sources
Pipe Placement Mechanics
More on Water
More on Lava
More on Oil
More On Steam

CRAFTING RECIPES
I'll explain the uses later.  :RedShroom: = redstone,  :stair: = iron block,  :_: = regular pipe

:Iron:  :Iron:  :Iron:
:: :: ::
:Iron:  :Iron:  :Iron:
Makes 16 regular pipes.

:Iron:  :Iron:  :Iron:
:: :RedShroom: ::
:Iron:  :Iron:  :Iron:
Makes 8 pumps/valves.

:Iron:  :Glass:  :Iron:
:: :: ::
:Iron:  :Glass:  :Iron:
Makes 8 glass pipes.

:: :Iron: ::
:_: :_: :_:
:: :Iron: ::
Makes 8 "rain pipes" or "leaky pipes".

:stair: :stair: :stair:
:: :: ::
:stair: :stair: :stair:
Makes 16 large pipes. I'll explain their expense in a bit.

:stair: :stair:  :stair:
:: :RedShroom: ::
:stair: :stair:  :stair:
Makes 8 large pumps/valves.

BASIC PIPE DESCRIPTIONS
From here on out, unless otherwise stated, the smilies by the type of pipe will mean that type.

:Iron: Regular Pipes (In game would be called just "pipes") :Iron:
The most basic pipe. Like Redstone, whatever is inside can only travel 15 blocks.

:GoldBar: Pump Pipes :GoldBar:
Acts like a pipe, but can reset the distance left (like a redstone repeater), and in doing so makes a one tick delay (same as a repeater's lowest setting). This is the only pipe (except for the larger version of it) that can draw from a water, lava, or oil source (I'll explain in a little bit). A redstone input will turn it off and its default state is on.

:Glass: Glass Pipes :Glass:
The middle section of the pipe graphically is glass. Would be used to see what is in the pipe for aesthetic purposes. If there is lava flowing through, it lights up the area, so can be used for nicer looking lighting than torches or for an on/off lighting system.

:feather:Rain Pipes:feather:
If water is flowing through rain falls below. The rain waters crops and gives them a growing boost for the duration of the rain. Oil and lava may fall as their own type of rain, but I can't think of any useful features for this so I don't think this is worth implementing (unless someone can convince me otherwise). Steam pipes will have steam particles floating around them, and will take in items (more later).

:stair: Large Pipes :stair:
The same as regular pipes, but are more expensive in exchange for being able to split into 5 smaller pipes (liquids inside, not pipe itself, so it is the equivalent of 5 small pipes in one).

:Red: Large Pumps :Red:
Same as regular pumps but with a larger source area, and the ability to split into 5 (max) smaller pipes (not the pipe itself but the liquid inside).

WATER/LAVA/OIL SOURCES
A small pipe source would be like this, in a cube ( :Lava: =lava, water, or oil):

:Lava:  :GoldBar:  :Lava:
:Lava:  :Lava:  :Lava:
:Lava:  :Lava:  :Lava:

A large pipe source would be like this, in a cube:

:Lava:  :Lava:  :stair:  :Lava:  :Lava:
:Lava:  :Lava:  :Red:  :Lava:  :Lava:
:Lava:  :Lava:  :Lava:  :Lava:  :Lava:
:Lava:  :Lava:  :Lava:  :Lava:  :Lava:
:Lava:  :Lava:  :Lava:  :Lava:  :Lava:

A large pump that does not have more than one large pipe going to it can be tapped into by any small pipe. Because the large pipe can not be extended without shutting off the smaller pipes, a maximum of 5 pipes can fit.

Oil pipes would ONLY draw from original oil sources as generated by the map, not oil placed by a bucket. The same does not apply to water or lava.

Steam sources would be from empty pipes coming from a furnace if either
-There is fuel (like coal) in the furnace with a bucket of water, provides steam for 1 minute leaving the empty bucket.
-There is at least 1 water pipe (each water pipe makes steam in 1 empty pipe, but fuel gets used up twice as fast for 2 water->steam and 3 times as fast for 3 water-.steam)
-There is one lava pipe and one water pipe for every steam pipe.

Where  :Water: =pipe with water in it,  :Lava: =pipe with lava in it,  :Glass: =steam pipe,  :VV: =furnace with fuel:

:Water:  :Water:  :VV:  :Glass:  :Glass: works

:Water:  :Water:  :Furnace:  :Glass:  :Glass:
[]  []  :Lava:  []  []
[]  []  :Lava:  []  []  works

Placing Pipes
Pipes would be 16x2x2 pixels for regular pipes and 16x14x14 for large. When placing, pipes act like rails but in 3D. Basically, a pipe can be placed by clicking on another pipe like with building with blocks. Pipes can also be placed on blocks (but they would not be flat). If a pipe is placed on a side of another pipe it would still be placed but it would be facing towards you still. If the pipe it was placed on doesn't connect to anything else that pipe would turn so that they connect, just like the rails turn. There would be no 3-way or 4-way pipes so that one source couldn't power an entire city.

Right clicking with pipes never opens a GUI, so pipes would place themselves on chests and furnaces if you are holding a pipe (to open it just move the slot over to a non-pipe).

To place a pipe into water/oil, just go into the water/oil and click on a pipe above it so it goes inside. Lava would be harder, you'd probably have to take out all the lava, place the pipes, and put the lava back in.

More On Water
Water would draw from a cube of source blocks like described above. Water would flow into the space pipes are in as if there was nothing there. This mechanic could be used for signs and ladders too (among other things). This way there would be no air pocket around the pipes going into water/lava/oil.

Once in the pipes, it could be used for steam or rain. Rain would fall out of rain pipes, acting like regular rain. Rain should also give sugarcane and wheat a growing bonus for the duration of the rain, encouraging players to build more realistic farms.

:cobblestone:  :Water:  :Water:  :Water:  :cobblestone:
:cobblestone:  :Water:  :Water:  :GoldBar:  :Iron:  :Iron:  :Iron: :feather: :feather: :feather: :feather: :feather: :feather: :feather: :feather: :feather: :feather:
:cobblestone:  :Water:  :Water:  :Water:  :cobblestone:  ::  :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: ::
:cobblestone:  :cobblestone:  :cobblestone:  :cobblestone:  :cobblestone:  ::  ::  :||||:  :||||:  :||||:  :||||:  :||||:  :||||:  :||||:  :||||: :||||:
::  ::  ::  ::  :cobblestone:  ::  ::  :soil:  :soil:   :soil:  :soil:  :soil:   :soil:  :soil:  :soil:  :soil:
for a small boost in speed of growth.

More On Lava
Like water, lava would flow into pipe spaces as if nothing were there.

When in the pipes, lava could be used to light up places through glass pipes. As an added bonus, this would allow lighting that would be able to be turned on and off. Lava would work to make steam and perhaps give furnaces a small boost too smelting time (maybe a second less time per thing smelted).

More On Oil
Oil would not go into pipes if it has been bucketed. This way people would have to build pipe systems to oil reserves. Oil reserves might look like this:

:grass:  :grass:  :grass:  :grass:  :grass:  :grass:  :grass:  :grass:  :grass:  :grass:
:soil:  :soil:  :soil:  :soil:  :soil:  :soil:  :soil:  :soil:  :soil:  :soil:
:soil:  :soil:  :stone:  :stone:  :stone:  :soil:  :soil:  :soil:  :stone:  :stone:
:stone:  :stone:  :stone:  :stone:  :stone:  :stone:  :stone:  :stone:  :stone:  :stone:
:stone:  :stone:  :stone:  :stone:  ::  ::  :stone:  :stone:  :stone:  :stone:
:stone:  :stone:  ::  :: ::  ::  ::  :stone:  :stone:  :stone:
:stone:  ::  ::  :: :: ::  ::  ::  ::  :stone:
:stone:  :Black:  :Black:  :Black:  :Black:  :Black:  :Black:  :Black: :Black: :stone:
:stone:  :stone:  :Black:  :Black:  :Black:  :Black:  :Black:  :Black: :stone: :stone:
:stone:  :stone:  :stone:  :stone:  :Black:  :Black:  :Black:  :Black:  :stone: :stone:
:stone:  :stone:  :stone:  :stone:  :stone:  :stone:  :stone:  :stone:  :stone:  :stone:
Some would be larger and others smaller.

Once in the pipe, oil could be used to power furnaces. Remember that you'd have to build a pipe to an oil reserve for every furnace, unless you build large pipes, but those cost more per the number of furnaces they power. One source of oil would supply up to 5 steam pipes, making it an efficient (but costly) alternative to lava or coal.

More On Steam
Steam would power machinery if it is added to Minecraft, though if it is not it would still have a use.

If a rain pipe has steam flowing through it, a cloud of white particles appears around the pipe. If an item falls on it, it is sucked into the steam "current" and transported through the pipe faster than water transports items. It will deposit the item in a chest if it is hooked up to one.


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#2

Mr_Spandexpants

Posted 06 May 2011 - 11:52 PM

Great suggestion! This is the best explanation of pipes I have seen.
Cats.

#3

PugRme
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Posted 06 May 2011 - 11:58 PM

Great suggetsion!

Quote

The middle section of the pipe graphically is glass. Would be used to see what is in the pipe for aesthetic purposes. If there is lava flowing through, it lights up the area, so can be used for nicer looking lighting than torches or for an on/off lighting system.

Do want.
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                                            Yes, I had to keep Twilight Sparkle. c:


#4

zepprith
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Posted 07 May 2011 - 12:20 AM

I like pipes wouldn't be a bad idea and you put it in a lot of detail. The only thing I don't truly understand is the large pipes. Can you make five branching small pipes or what? I also am unsure about the rain pipes.

#5

Lord Penguin
  • Location: Antartica
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Posted 07 May 2011 - 01:21 AM

zepprith said:

I like pipes wouldn't be a bad idea and you put it in a lot of detail. The only thing I don't truly understand is the large pipes. Can you make five branching small pipes or what? I also am unsure about the rain pipes.

Large pipes can move more liquid. From a large pipe 5 small pipes can stem, but only if there are no large pipes connected to it (so no infinite liquids).

Red is a large pump.
[]  []  []  :SSSS:  :iapprove:  :iapprove:
[]  []  []  :iapprove:  []  []
:Notch:  :Diamond:  :Diamond:  :Red:  :iapprove:  :iapprove:
[]  []  []  :Notch:  []  []
[]  []  []  :Notch:  :Notch: :Notch:

Like this, but since there are 6 sides in 3D and one is taken up by the large pipe it draws liquid from, 5 pipes maximum.

As for the rain pipes, basically when water goes through rain falls in a 1x1 column down. I also gave rain pipes, when they had steam running through, the ability to take in items for transportation (I didn't know how else they would take in items, anyone have any ideas?).

#6

zepprith
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Posted 07 May 2011 - 04:39 AM

Ah that makes more sense I like the idea I think that it would be pretty cool to do some pipe layout in your base. They could also be used for traps.

#7

thethetheluis

Posted 07 May 2011 - 05:45 AM

Of course it would need a little 'notch's own touch up' but i do REALLY like this idea. But I'm curious, would it DEPLETE the source you're talking about? (kind of like that "finite water" mod) or no? Because building a giant expensive pipe down to an oil/water/lava pit thats 25-50 blocks in volume wouldn't be worth it if it depleted your source, just using it a few times for what you need it for and it's gone.

#8

GoldMiner

Posted 07 May 2011 - 06:43 AM

How would the valve work in Minecraft?

Internal exception: java.net.socketException: connection reset
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#9

zepprith
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Posted 07 May 2011 - 06:49 AM

GoldMiner said:

How would the valve work in Minecraft?

it could just be a switch or button. You could also make a new block but it would basically do the same thing a a switch.

#10

Ecu
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Posted 07 May 2011 - 07:15 AM

I must say that while I love the idea of pipes, I dislike the idea of oil.

I've been seeing a trend of more and more modern or even futuristic suggestions and its been bothering me a bit.  The beauty of Minecraft is complexity through simplicity.  In my opinion, things like oil would only add to the complexity.  Steam, oil, electricity, etc. are all things that really are too complex of a concept to feel at home in Minecraft, in my opinion.  Sure, steam makes perfect sense for the feel of the game, but complexities of steam do not.

Lets take redstone for instance...it has a basic property to power something.  It has another basic property that if the block its on is powered, it turns off.  This basic concept allows for the simplistic (a button that opens a door), to the complex (an actual computer built within minecraft).  Redstone really is the 'power source' of Minecraft and I feel adding things like Steam and Oil only deter from that simplicity.

All that said, I really like the idea of pipes.  Routing water through defined tubes (and potentially items) seems like something that would be a very neat addition.  Redstone could be used to manipulate valves, which could lead to a whole series of interesting gadgets.

#11

zepprith
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Posted 07 May 2011 - 07:21 AM

Ecu said:

I must say that while I love the idea of pipes, I dislike the idea of oil.

I've been seeing a trend of more and more modern or even futuristic suggestions and its been bothering me a bit.  The beauty of Minecraft is complexity through simplicity.  In my opinion, things like oil would only add to the complexity.  Steam, oil, electricity, etc. are all things that really are too complex of a concept to feel at home in Minecraft, in my opinion.  Sure, steam makes perfect sense for the feel of the game, but complexities of steam do not.

Lets take redstone for instance...it has a basic property to power something.  It has another basic property that if the block its on is powered, it turns off.  This basic concept allows for the simplistic (a button that opens a door), to the complex (an actual computer built within minecraft).  Redstone really is the 'power source' of Minecraft and I feel adding things like Steam and Oil only deter from that simplicity.

All that said, I really like the idea of pipes.  Routing water through defined tubes (and potentially items) seems like something that would be a very neat addition.  Redstone could be used to manipulate valves, which could lead to a whole series of interesting gadgets.


I agree with you the idea of oil can be argued but the main idea of pipes is good.

#12

Badprenup
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Posted 07 May 2011 - 07:29 AM

Ecu said:

I must say that while I love the idea of pipes, I dislike the idea of oil.

I've been seeing a trend of more and more modern or even futuristic suggestions and its been bothering me a bit.  The beauty of Minecraft is complexity through simplicity.  In my opinion, things like oil would only add to the complexity.  Steam, oil, electricity, etc. are all things that really are too complex of a concept to feel at home in Minecraft, in my opinion.  Sure, steam makes perfect sense for the feel of the game, but complexities of steam do not.

Lets take redstone for instance...it has a basic property to power something.  It has another basic property that if the block its on is powered, it turns off.  This basic concept allows for the simplistic (a button that opens a door), to the complex (an actual computer built within minecraft).  Redstone really is the 'power source' of Minecraft and I feel adding things like Steam and Oil only deter from that simplicity.

All that said, I really like the idea of pipes.  Routing water through defined tubes (and potentially items) seems like something that would be a very neat addition.  Redstone could be used to manipulate valves, which could lead to a whole series of interesting gadgets.
How is an item that has been around for centuries modern? I agree, none of those things (add lightning to the list too) should be used as power. Redstone works fine. But it could have other uses.
Looks like my free time is going to be divided equally between Minecraft suggestions and Starbound suggestions from now on.

#13

Ecu
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Posted 07 May 2011 - 07:58 AM

I guess modern could have been the wrong word to use.  The idea of piping crude to power your factories (furnaces) just really doesn't sit well with me.  Perhaps say, have 'oil' be related to slimes and slimes actually spawn on the shores of this 'oil'.  Slimeballs could then be used as fuel as well and perhaps to create lanterns.  In addition, it would let you create stable 'spawns' for slimes by rerouting the 'oil' and moving it elsewhere.

I personally don't think the concept of crude oil really fits minecraft.  It may not be exactly modern but it definitely feels out of place.

#14

arirish
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Posted 07 May 2011 - 10:15 AM

Want clay pipes, not iron :Diamond:  Clay needs more love.

I know, I know, it's rare.  But I want clay to be less rare, and clay pipes.  I'm not whining, honest...

Loving this thread though.  Great stuff.

#15

scoobsterinc

Posted 07 May 2011 - 10:25 AM

I would love this for my lava traps.
Posted Image

#16

Lord Penguin
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Posted 07 May 2011 - 03:26 PM

thethetheluis said:

Of course it would need a little 'notch's own touch up' but i do REALLY like this idea. But I'm curious, would it DEPLETE the source you're talking about? (kind of like that "finite water" mod) or no? Because building a giant expensive pipe down to an oil/water/lava pit thats 25-50 blocks in volume wouldn't be worth it if it depleted your source, just using it a few times for what you need it for and it's gone.
No. Same goes for lava and water.

Ecu said:

I must say that while I love the idea of pipes, I dislike the idea of oil.

I've been seeing a trend of more and more modern or even futuristic suggestions and its been bothering me a bit.  The beauty of Minecraft is complexity through simplicity.  In my opinion, things like oil would only add to the complexity.  Steam, oil, electricity, etc. are all things that really are too complex of a concept to feel at home in Minecraft, in my opinion.  Sure, steam makes perfect sense for the feel of the game, but complexities of steam do not.

Lets take redstone for instance...it has a basic property to power something.  It has another basic property that if the block its on is powered, it turns off.  This basic concept allows for the simplistic (a button that opens a door), to the complex (an actual computer built within minecraft).  Redstone really is the 'power source' of Minecraft and I feel adding things like Steam and Oil only deter from that simplicity.

All that said, I really like the idea of pipes.  Routing water through defined tubes (and potentially items) seems like something that would be a very neat addition.  Redstone could be used to manipulate valves, which could lead to a whole series of interesting gadgets.
Oil was used over a thousand years ago, piped from oil wells by the Chinese, but obviously not for cars, planes, etc., all of which I disagree with as far as Minecraft goes. Oil would just be used as fuel for furnaces.

Electricity is something I am against being added for obvious reasons. Not only does it in itself add complexity and a modern feel, then there would have to be other things added (lightbulbs and such) that would make Minecraft far too modern and too complex.

#17

Ecu
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Posted 07 May 2011 - 07:10 PM

I still think piping oil to fuel furnaces is still too much of a stretch, honestly.  I also think piping water to become steam is too much of a stretch.  To me they just really don't fit the mindset of Minecraft in my opinion.  It feels way to much like an oil refinery to pump up oil to a furnace as fuel.  

In addition, we already have so many means in which to fuel furnaces that unless oil had additional uses it would be a complexity that just takes away from simplicity without any major benefit to be honest.

Steam powered machines are something again that is too complex of a concept I think to really fit the Minecraft mindset.  Notch even mentioned that he felt pistons needed some tweaking to fit more into the Minecraft design.

Pipes though feel very valid to me.  It could be greatly simplified though.  Pipes are block size and will connect to others automatically in a fashion akin to tracks.  You then have pump style block that works akin to the Allocator suggestion posted elsewhere, except that it can pull water in as well.. and essentially anything that goes into an Allocator comes out at the end of the pipe connected to said Allocator.  So if part of a water stream was on the Allocator side, it now comes out the other side, extending the stream and controlling where you want it.  This kind of setup would maintain the basic simplicity of Minecraft while still allow you to do some crazy complex things.

#18

doomsought

Posted 07 May 2011 - 09:44 PM

I don't like the oil idea, as above too much of a stretch. However piping magma and water to a furnace might need some modification.

Magma lighting goes through, for rule of cool if nothing else, it make me want to to a Rapture(Bioshock) build.
Say:
:_: =pipe
:cobblestone: =block, cobble stone?
:GoldBar: = pump
:Furnace: =furnace

[]  []  []
:_:  :cobblestone:  :Furnace:
[]  []  []
creates a magma-furnace that can receive fuel from piped magma, but only from magma.

Steam sounds like a device to block mob sight... run into the steam cloud and the mob will lose you, but it also blocks your sight too. Either use a magma furnace for this, but have its crafting be disabled, or us a alternate steam furnace that can't craft:
[]  :GoldBar:  []
:_:  :Furnace:  :_:
[]  :cobblestone:  []
Might use it to power a trap box, that would vary by fuel:
water floods, magma sets the region on fire, steam creates an explosion that does not damage structures, but pushes back creatures and damage them. Max range is a 5 X 5 box centered on trap, and stops at walls.
Hmm~ Based off the dispenser, the trap stone should be:
:cobblestone:  :_:  :cobblestone:
:cobblestone:  :RedShroom:  :cobblestone:
:cobblestone:  :GoldBar:  :cobblestone:

:RedShroom: = red-stone dust.
Posted Image

#19

Ecu
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Posted 08 May 2011 - 05:52 AM

I don't think new recipes would be needed to create a furnace that could have Lava pumped to it.  Really, just have it so that if a pipe connects to any side of the furnace other then its face and the pump the pipe is connected to is by lava, the lava would be pulled into the pipe and used as fuel.

Again, complexity in simplicity.  I think creating special rules like this for things is a much better way for things to be done in general.

Pumps would have to work as follows...

If a source block is next to the open end of the pump, and the exit pipe is air...remove initial source and place at end of pipe.
If exit pipe is another source. replace the first part of its stream with a source and remove a the source at the pump.
If block next to the pump is a stream block, its source is removed and the above placement rules apply.

This would let you conceivably move entire lakes, rivers, etc given a bit of time as well as be very useful for say lava forming ventures.

If both ends of a pipe had a pump and both pumps are on, then nothing happens.  Junction pipes only let something flow through one pipe at a time (due to liquids in minecraft not having normal volume).  If you're wanting to combine two pipes into one for routing water or split a pipe into two, you'd need a reservoir that would hold the liquid until it was piped elsewhere.

#20

The_Revan
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Posted 08 May 2011 - 05:58 AM

I haven't read or thought far into your idea, but I do like the idea of water pipes. To keep it simple, I think there should only be one pipe size, though. Glass pipes and pumps are also clever ideas.
o.O