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Old Graphics Card? (Snapshot 13w38c)


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#1

The_mInecraftMan

Posted 20 September 2013 - 04:28 PM

Okay so when I looked at the new snapshot this morning, on the Minecraft start menu, just below the logo is a text box saying "Old Graphics card detected; this may prevent you from playing in the far future as OpenGL 2.1 will be required."

I, as I know most people would be here, was devastated to hear that I might not be able to play my beloved Minecraft for long. Firstly, what is a Graphic Card exactly? And can I get a new one without paying for another computer? Also, can somebody explain to me what OpenGL 2.1 is?

Thanks and apologies for the numerous amount of questions,

The Minecraft Man

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#2

juanjose920_12
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Posted 20 September 2013 - 07:58 PM

Depends, you will be able to purchase a "cheap" graphics card easily if you have a desktop computer, on a laptop is more involved.. What kind of gpu do you have? Integrated or Dedicated?
Intel GMA? etc.
Also for the OpenGL 2.1 it supports more features for graphics, like blur and whatnot.
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#3

Marc
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Posted 20 September 2013 - 08:04 PM

A graphics card is a piece of computer hardware that processes and generates the graphics to your screen. OpenGL is a programming interface for rendering graphics. OpenGL 2.1 will, in the far future, be the oldest version that we are supporting, and that version came out 7 years ago.

If you have a computer that doesn't meet this requirement, your graphics card is quite old, and is probably not playing Minecraft exceptionally well right now. You have a lot of time to upgrade. If you choose not to, you just won't be able to use newer updates at that time.
Have questions? Please visit help.mojang.com
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#4

Adinxs
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Posted 20 September 2013 - 09:16 PM

My Graphics card is built into my motherboard, I have one that supports openGL now, but I do not know how to install it, how would I go about doing that.

#5

Grantmanxg

Posted 20 September 2013 - 09:39 PM

Take some Advice from a Man who plays Minecraft on a 2.1 ghz processor with 3gb of ram on windows XP.  Heres how you get minecraft to run on old crappy computers.  1. Minecraft Will not Play on a machine that Does not have 3gb of ram, The game will crash if you have less than that.  2. Minecraft is a ram hog, Therefore you need 3gb to run the game smoothly and adding the command line -Xmx1024M -Xms1024M to your JVM arguments will improve performance Greatly. 3. Having a Computer that Has a Graphics Card, Definiltey improves game performance.  Open GL and using your graphics processor rather than your CPU or ram Saves speed on your computer.  4. Always Make sure your Graphics Card Drivers are up to date on your Machine, Minecraft Will Crash if their not updated. 5. Minecraft and the way it was originally coded has problems, especially with loading chunks, I have seen it crash the game time and time again, however with the new update it is getting smoother.  Mods like Optifine that allow you to fine adjust your graphics, and turn off advanced graphics features, GREATLY improves Game performance and Look.  With Optifine I have seen minecraft run smooth, no lag and with fog, you can't even tell that the level is loading off in the distance.

As for the Graphics Card, If you Know nothing about a computer or how to install I don't recommend you doing it yourself.  You can fry you computer.  If you have an old computer, buying a new Graphics Card is no easy task.  You will have to open up your computer look on the Motherboard on the inside and look for the model number, if its a dell you need the Service number.  Once you have that number your going to have to go out to the website of the people who built the mainboard of the machine and look it up.  Then you will have to download the motherboard manual in PDF form.  Once you have the manual you will need to look up what graphics port your motherboard has, weather it is, a PCI or AGP, Make sure you have voltages correct.  Otherwise your computer will catch fire. or burn cards up.  Once you got that, Graphics cards can be purchased from retail stores, but if you don't have much money or its an old computer online shopping is your only method.  Normal graphics card price $50-100 dollars for acient ones, Newer $100-$1000 dollars.  And the newer ones won't work with old hardware.  Best to buy a graphics card that was manufactured in the year of your computer.  If its an old machine and probably is, online buying is your only place to find graphics cards they will probably be used.  But I have found that bying used is cheaper, beware whom you buy from though, make sure u use a trusted source.  This method is for I.T. Professionals and people who know what their doing, If your going to have someone do this for you, It will not be cheap, might be cheaper to buy a new computer if thats the case.  I.T professionals charge like $40 to $60 dollars an hour, retail stores have them, but if you don't have money don't even bother.

Good luck my friend, if you can't afford to do it professionally, doing it yourself is difficult but can be really rewarding, much education is needed to do these things, but Just remember those professionals all had to learn what they did, either by mistake or reading.  So if you got nothing to lose, maybe it time to pick up a book and start learing about computers.

Good luck

#6

BaccarWozat
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Posted 20 September 2013 - 10:13 PM

View PostGrantmanxg, on 20 September 2013 - 09:39 PM, said:

1. Minecraft Will not Play on a machine that Does not have 3gb of ram, The game will crash if you have less than that.  2. Minecraft is a ram hog, Therefore you need 3gb to run the game smoothly and adding the command line -Xmx1024M -Xms1024M to your JVM arguments will improve performance Greatly.
#2 contradicts #1. If you need 3GB to run the game smoothly, it should run roughly with <3GB, but you say it will crash. Which means it will NEVER RUN OTHER THAN SMOOTHLY. Which is obviously not true.

In any case, my non-internet comp has 1GB and runs Minecraft just fine, albeit a bit slowly. I have heard stories of people playing it at 512MB, but I wouldn't recommend it. It's not really the amount of RAM that slows down the game, unless you keep hitting the memory ceiling. It's the CPU speed.

Adding that text to the command line should help, but it only gives a maximum of 2GB.
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#7

JohnOptegrove

Posted 20 September 2013 - 10:16 PM

View PostGrantmanxg, on 20 September 2013 - 09:39 PM, said:

Take some Advice from a Man who plays Minecraft on a 2.1 ghz processor with 3gb of ram on windows XP.
And clock speed matters HOW?

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Heres how you get minecraft to run on old crappy computers.  1. Minecraft Will not Play on a machine that Does not have 3gb of ram, The game will crash if you have less than that.
Uh, no.

Quote

  2. Minecraft is a ram hog, Therefore you need 3gb to run the game smoothly and adding the command line -Xmx1024M -Xms1024M to your JVM arguments will improve performance Greatly.
Minecraft needs no more than 1 GB to run even with mods and texture packs.

Quote

3. Having a Computer that Has a Graphics Card, Definiltey improves game performance.  Open GL and using your graphics processor rather than your CPU or ram Saves speed on your computer.
So the entire game can be run on the GPU? News to me.

Quote

  4. Always Make sure your Graphics Card Drivers are up to date on your Machine, Minecraft Will Crash if their not updated.
*facepalm* That is not how it works.

Quote

5. Minecraft and the way it was originally coded has problems, especially with loading chunks, I have seen it crash the game time and time again, however with the new update it is getting smoother.  Mods like Optifine that allow you to fine adjust your graphics, and turn off advanced graphics features, GREATLY improves Game performance and Look.  With Optifine I have seen minecraft run smooth, no lag and with fog, you can't even tell that the level is loading off in the distance.
There is a noticeable difference in FPS, but you're not going to go from 10 to 60 FPS.

Quote

As for the Graphics Card, If you Know nothing about a computer or how to install I don't recommend you doing it yourself.  You can fry you computer.
Not easily.

Quote

  If you have an old computer, buying a new Graphics Card is no easy task.  You will have to open up your computer look on the Motherboard on the inside and look for the model number, if its a dell you need the Service number.
No you don't.

Quote

Make sure you have voltages correct.  Otherwise your computer will catch fire. or burn cards up.
I don't know what "voltages correct" means, but the card won't catch fire.

Quote

  Once you got that, Graphics cards can be purchased from retail stores, but if you don't have much money or its an old computer online shopping is your only method.  Normal graphics card price $50-100 dollars for acient ones, Newer $100-$1000 dollars.  And the newer ones won't work with old hardware.
Uh, a 6670/7730 is $60...

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  Best to buy a graphics card that was manufactured in the year of your computer.
Definitely not.

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If its an old machine and probably is, online buying is your only place to find graphics cards they will probably be used.  But I have found that bying used is cheaper, beware whom you buy from though, make sure u use a trusted source.
Yeah, because Ebay is SUCH a good place for electronics...

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  This method is for I.T. Professionals and people who know what their doing,
It's so damn easy a toddler could do it.

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If your going to have someone do this for you, It will not be cheap, might be cheaper to buy a new computer if thats the case.
Oh please. Graphics card installation (if you're THAT lazy and lack self confidence) is less than $50.

Quote

Good luck my friend, if you can't afford to do it professionally, doing it yourself is difficult but can be really rewarding, much education is needed to do these things,

Installing a graphics card yourself is rewarding? I guess if you've never used Lego before it is.

#8

Mathy
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Posted 20 September 2013 - 11:53 PM

View PostEvilCreeper10, on 20 September 2013 - 10:16 PM, said:


And clock speed matters HOW?

Obviously, higher numbers are better because they are higher. Obviously if a number is higher, it must be better, right?

GPU installation for dummies

1. Take GPU out.
2.  Put new GPU in.

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#9

Grave
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Posted 21 September 2013 - 07:27 AM

People of the internet! There is a useful website to help you with anything in the world (almost)!

We call it 'Youtube', and can easily be found with a simple websearch. It has educational videos, how-to's, installation guides among other things like cat videos, babies giggling and poor chaps breaking their forearms while skateboarding. Look there for how to put a graphics card into a personal computer, or even to find out what a graphics card is.

Regardless of your GPU/Graphics card being old or not, Minecraft developers have seen it fit to make Minecraft take up more and more hardware power as they progress the game along. You're best off buying a decent, $80-150 graphics card that's rather recent to play this game appropriately. Otherwise, you will suffer from "Tiny render Max Framerate: 10" syndrome from the poor optimization of Minecraft.

If the $80-150 is a problem for you, I suggest you lose hope because as Marc said, Mojang has no plans on leaving Minecraft in a stable state. I don't quite understand why, but making others buy more expensive computer hardware to run your poorly-made game seems to be a trend these days. Amnesia, among other titles, is a good example of something that went terribly wrong and is still somehow popular.

I really wish that people realized that they're getting screwed over. There's no need for a GTX 780ti and an Intel core i5 3570k processor overclocked to 4.2ghz to run Minecraft. This game is not that great in terms of graphics, it's just their solution to the problems with performance Minecraft (and Java) have. Upgrading your pc or building/buying a brand new computer for Minecraft specifically with decent specs is essentially paying $800-$1200+ for Minecraft instead of the original ~$15-30.

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#10

JohnOptegrove

Posted 21 September 2013 - 02:51 PM

View PostGrave, on 21 September 2013 - 07:27 AM, said:

Regardless of your GPU/Graphics card being old or not, Minecraft developers have seen it fit to make Minecraft take up more and more hardware power as they progress the game along. You're best off buying a decent, $80-150 graphics card that's rather recent to play this game appropriately. Otherwise, you will suffer from "Tiny render Max Framerate: 10" syndrome from the poor optimization of Minecraft.

If the $80-150 is a problem for you, I suggest you lose hope because as Marc said, Mojang has no plans on leaving Minecraft in a stable state. I don't quite understand why, but making others buy more expensive computer hardware to run your poorly-made game seems to be a trend these days. Amnesia, among other titles, is a good example of something that went terribly wrong and is still somehow popular.

Minecraft can run on an A6 just fine...

A $130 A10 APU that includes both a CPU and GPU can max Minecraft easily. The only people for whom performance is going down to unplayable are the people on Pentium Pros.

#11

epicjoey27
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Posted 24 September 2013 - 02:31 AM

and, i can run minecraft 15-30 fps

With these CRAPPY PC

Windows Ultimate 32bit
Intel Pentium Dual Core E6600 3.06GHz - Processor
Intel G41 Express Chipset - Video card [Built In]
500GB HDD
2GB of RAM (1.75GB Usable)

huh, i need more RAM but i can only buy stuff when christmas

#12

Bjossi
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Posted 24 September 2013 - 04:04 AM

View PostThe_mInecraftMan, on 20 September 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

I, as I know most people would be here, was devastated to hear that I might not be able to play my beloved Minecraft for long. Firstly, what is a Graphic Card exactly? And can I get a new one without paying for another computer? Also, can somebody explain to me what OpenGL 2.1 is?

I'll start by saying that I think only a tiny fraction of players will be affected, OpenGL 2.1 is an ancient version of the OpenGL API. Any hardware you buy today will be easily OpenGL 2.1 capable, unless you specifically look for legacy hardware on auction websites.

Now, you can replace the old graphics card with a new one on an old computer, but there are a few factors to consider for an optimal upgrade:
1) What kind of bus interfaces does your motherboard have to offer? Older GPUs used PCI and AGP but today PCI express is the thing. Best way to find this out is to use a hardware scanning software to find out your computer information and then google the brand names for details.
2) Is the power supply of your current computer powerful enough to drive the new, more powerful card?
3) Is your computer powerful enough to drive the new, more powerful card? Or in other words: is the rest of the computer fast enough to actually keep your new card busy enough to take full advantage of its power?

I personally would not attempt to upgrade just one component of a computer that is very old, unless all 3 of the above light green. If you're just looking for the ability to play the game on OpenGL 2.1-capable hardware (quick and dirty) then you could probably just get some cheap card, remove the old one, install the new one, and download &amp; install the drivers for it (after uninstalling the old drivers of course). Things would play (in theory!) but I doubt you'd be getting very pleasant experience if the rest of your computer is as old as it sounds.

For more extreme cases like this, and because you don't seem so tech savvy, it is easier to just get a new computer. I'd stay away from branded, pre-built PCs as they tend to come pre-crippled with software junk and they also tend to include monitor, speakers, etc. which you can most likely re-use from your current computer. I'd personally go for those deals where you can buy just the tower and a OS installation, a barebones deal if you will. Just put the new tower in place, connect your monitor, speakers, mouse and keyboard and fire that baby up and play some OpenGL 2.1 Minecraft goodness. The biggest problem is finding that perfect deal...

#13

Hambeau
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Posted 24 September 2013 - 04:46 PM

View PostEvilCreeper10, on 21 September 2013 - 02:51 PM, said:

Minecraft can run on an A6 just fine...

A $130 A10 APU that includes both a CPU and GPU can max Minecraft easily. The only people for whom performance is going down to unplayable are the people on Pentium Pros.

The problem with this concept is that an older motherboard is not going to support APUs since they're a fairly recent development.

If your computer is a "Brand Name" system post your make and model here.  It should be prominently displayed on the front of the case.  The worst case you would need to find the serial tag and get us the brand (Dell, HP,?) and the model number from the tag.  I'm sure I'm not the only one here capable of researching your original hardware specs to find out what kind of video slot you have, and how to disable onboard graphics if you have them.

From the sound of things you're not a top of the line gamer, so chances are you most likely won't need to worry about extra power.  That's only really a concern for top of the line GPUs, which you won't need.

From there we could hopefully find a brand new video card compatible with your graphics slot, as that's the limiting factor.  Any new older gen GPU card that fits your slot will certainly be OGL 2.1 compatible, and possibly cost a lot less than you think.


#14

zeel
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Posted 24 September 2013 - 05:15 PM

View PostGrave, on 21 September 2013 - 07:27 AM, said:

Regardless of your GPU/Graphics card being old or not, Minecraft developers have seen it fit to make Minecraft take up more and more hardware power as they progress the game along. You're best off buying a decent, $80-150 graphics card that's rather recent to play this game appropriately. Otherwise, you will suffer from "Tiny render Max Framerate: 10" syndrome from the poor optimization of Minecraft.

If the $80-150 is a problem for you, I suggest you lose hope because as Marc said, Mojang has no plans on leaving Minecraft in a stable state. I don't quite understand why, but making others buy more expensive computer hardware to run your poorly-made game seems to be a trend these days. Amnesia, among other titles, is a good example of something that went terribly wrong and is still somehow popular.

I really wish that people realized that they're getting screwed over. There's no need for a GTX 780ti and an Intel core i5 3570k processor overclocked to 4.2ghz to run Minecraft. This game is not that great in terms of graphics, it's just their solution to the problems with performance Minecraft (and Java) have. Upgrading your pc or building/buying a brand new computer for Minecraft specifically with decent specs is essentially paying $800-$1200+ for Minecraft instead of the original ~$15-30.

Your kidding me right? We are talking about no longer supporting hardware that is over 7 years old. Go ahead and find another modern game that will support even half that age.

Part of the performance problem in MC is the very fact that it tries to support such old computers. Newer version are far far more efficient. Minecraft dose not really have an efficient architecture, and it never will (barring a full re-write), the devs are working as hard as they can to optimize the game, and that means cutting the dead weight - like supporting ancient version of OpenGL.  

And it's not like they are asking people to buy a high end card, you only need a card that is less than 7 years old. I am sure you can find one on ebay for next to nothing.
Don't forget to tell Mojang that you. . .

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#15

Bjossi
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Posted 24 September 2013 - 05:52 PM

Requiring OpenGL 2.1 does not imply higher system requirements in terms of raw computing power, that only happens if they actually use the new, fancier API features. Requiring a higher version will simply lead to better stability and cleaner code, much like when developers started cutting off dead weight like supporting Windows 9x.

If software and hardware manufacturers didn't need to worry about cave dwellers running ancient stuff, there would be no need to include a whole plethora of legacy instructions on modern processors, or include pretty much every API feature that has ever existed in Windows to date. Software and hardware development would be much easier, more stable and cleaner if we didn't need to worry about supporting the execution of old, legacy code.

It almost wouldn't surprise me if Babbage came storming to the forums to complain about Minecraft no longer running on his analytical engine. Hell, my "ancient" HD 5770 supports OpenGL 3.2.

#16

Inosiphot
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Posted 24 September 2013 - 06:00 PM

I've noticed that a lot of Minecraft players use PCs that aren't even very good even for their time. Do people assume that the game was made to run on their bad PCs hence the old styled graphics?

View PostDaBiggman, on 01 October 2013 - 10:53 PM, said:

I think Jens will add Religion to the NPC's, so we can watch them kill each other.
-Righty

#17

Benzor1
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Posted 24 September 2013 - 06:27 PM

View PostInosiphot, on 24 September 2013 - 06:00 PM, said:

I've noticed that a lot of Minecraft players use PCs that aren't even very good even for their time. Do people assume that the game was made to run on their bad PCs hence the old styled graphics?

Yes, they do.
I wish people would describe their problems exactly.

#18

chewbloka

Posted 26 October 2013 - 02:38 PM

where can i find a opengl 2.1 graphics card plz reply i am a utuber

#19

TheChromiumSlime

Posted 26 October 2013 - 06:56 PM

View Postchewbloka, on 26 October 2013 - 02:38 PM, said:

where can i find a opengl 2.1 graphics card plz reply i am a utuber
Opengl 2.1 was made 7 years ago, it shouldn't be too hard to find one that supports it on Nvidia or amd's website.

#20

EVKnucklehead

Posted 26 October 2013 - 09:03 PM

View PostEvilCreeper10, on 20 September 2013 - 10:16 PM, said:

I don't know what "voltages correct" means, but the card won't catch fire.
He's referring to the old AGP cards that did have different signaling voltages depending on what speed the interface ran at (3.3 for 2x, 1.5 for 4x, and 0.8 for 8x), which had specific notching on the interface depending on what the card and/or motherboard could support. Many motherboards often had a split slot that would physically prevent unsupported cards from even being inserted.

If a card was modified to fit in an unsupported slot (already a risky proposition) it could theoretically damage the interface components of the card, but, as you said, it will most likely not catch fire, due to safeguards on the card and motherboard and the low current levels typically involved.