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[1.7.2][API] LiteLoader for Minecraft 1.7.2

1.7.2 1.6.4

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#141

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 12:15 PM

"It has to be resolved very soon because we will be seeing jar signature verification"

why do I not feel that jar signature verification makes anything better, whats the point of it and who does it really benefit.

I don't mind options, maybe it might be useful for servers to restrict to vanilla only crap I dunno, but restricting and putting up loads of barriers in the way of modding minecraft doesn't thrill me especially when I hear nothing of the actual modding api progress. I have a few of my own minecraft mods that so far been just fine compatibility wise with all the mods I use and just making patches for the few exceptions. They modify base classes, maybe I should look into how to achieve the same via Forge though it seems like more of mission with the lack of decent upto date tutorials, pretty much why I just leave it for when this official modding api shows itself in minecraft as I don't particularly like Forge.
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#142

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 12:30 PM

View PostKoogle, on 17 July 2013 - 12:15 PM, said:

why do I not feel that jar signature verification makes anything better, whats the point of it and who does it really benefit.
Answers: Security, Everyone

View PostKoogle, on 17 July 2013 - 12:15 PM, said:

I don't mind options, maybe it might be useful for servers to restrict to vanilla only crap I dunno, but restricting and putting up loads of barriers in the way of modding minecraft doesn't thrill me
There aren't any barriers to modding, they're just trying to kill of a type of modding that's destructive, unnecessary, and has security implications. There are new mechanisms to replace jar modding, people just need to switch to them, which is what I was saying

View PostKoogle, on 17 July 2013 - 12:15 PM, said:

especially when I hear nothing of the actual modding api progress.
I assume this is a joke? The massive internal changes in 1.6, the move to "resource packs" which are designed to make all resources in the game (rather than just textures) easily moddable, and the new launcher itself are all massive steps towards the development and deployment of the API! This is why it's so frustrating to explain, people say "we want the API" then in the same breath when Mojang make changes to support it they shout "omg now we have to change, why you break everything Mojang?". It doesn't make sense.

View PostKoogle, on 17 July 2013 - 12:15 PM, said:

I have a few of my own minecraft mods that so far been just fine compatibility wise with all the mods I use and just making patches for the few exceptions. They modify base classes,
Base edits are and always have been against the ToU, changing to a system that prevents this is better from a security perspective and Mojang are well within their rights to do so. And most importantly, you can still MAKE base edits if you really must, just DON'T edit the base jar to do so. With the new launcher it is not necessary any more.

View PostKoogle, on 17 July 2013 - 12:15 PM, said:

maybe I should look into how to achieve the same via Forge though it seems like more of mission with the lack of decent upto date tutorials, pretty much why I just leave it for when this official modding api shows itself in minecraft as I don't particularly like Forge.
So you're saying can't be bothered to learn how to mod on a different platform, or using the tools that Mojang have already provided that certainly don't force you to use any particular incumbent API, I don't see how this is any problem but your own.
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#143

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 01:06 PM

Well its only a problem because I can't be bothered to spend my time on it right now while its all poorly documented mess. Perhaps it will be better in the future.

"Answers: Security, Everyone"

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#144

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 01:17 PM

View PostKoogle, on 17 July 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

Well its only a problem because I can't be bothered to spend my time on it right now while its all poorly documented mess. Perhaps it will be better in the future.
Because it's still in flux, much of minecraft's documentation is community-generated and I expect documentation on the new launcher to follow a similar vein. That said, there's not really that much to how it works if you understand the concept of a java classpath, and 10 seconds reading the JSON file really tells you everything you need to know.

View PostKoogle, on 17 July 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

"Answers: Security, Everyone"

If you say so Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image
That's not an ungrounded assertion, I really don't understand why I'm having such a hard time explaining this. People are used to the status quo and seem to be fighting the change out of a kind of knee-jerk response that's just really hard to understand given how much change has occurred over the last 3 years. And this just because a culture of acceptance has grown up around a style of extension that never was, and won't ever be a good idea and only existed because it was the only supported way to achieve a goal. Now that reason no longer exists people are still defending the old method as if there were something sacred about it rather than it being something dirty and best forgotten.

Security: because the jar metadata is there for a reason and not just decoration
Everyone: because, everyone: modders benefit with a better technology to work with, players benefit from a unified experience rather than having to resort to third-party launchers or hacking their jar, mojang benefit because it paves the way to their mod API.
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#145

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 01:20 PM

View PostMumfrey, on 16 July 2013 - 10:45 PM, said:

... but I'd be happy to provide a tiny companion mod that could display the same thing. This way people who want the status text can have it and the rest needn't be bothered by it.
Works for me kind sir.
Want Forge and OptiFine in Minecraft 1.6.2 (and LiteLoader too!) WITHOUT modifying the JAR?
Try my guide here: [1.6.2] - FORGE, OPTIFINE, LITELOADER, AND MAGIC LAUNCHER (NO JAR MODDING)
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#146

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 01:44 PM

Is there a way to "chain" liteloader onto forge's profile like with opitifine or SPC?  Because grabbing the line of code in the json thats
Spoiler:
doesn't work.  Same with having ignore discrepancies  and having no URL and extracting the jar with the installer program and then putting in the json line
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#147

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 01:48 PM

View PostMumfrey, on 17 July 2013 - 01:17 PM, said:

People are used to the status quo and seem to be fighting the change out of a kind of knee-jerk response

it's because humans hate changes when they are settled and feel comfortable. that's why omophobia, xenophobia and republicans (and other bad-and-stupid stuff I don't recall) exist.

anyway: SHEEEEET IT DOESN'T WORK WITH REI'S MINIMAP! T_T
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View Postteh60, on 17 July 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

Is there a way to "chain" liteloader onto forge's profile like with opitifine or SPC?  Because grabbing the line of code in the json thats
Spoiler:
doesn't work.  Same with having ignore discrepancies  and having no URL and extracting the jar with the installer program and then putting in the json line

are you trying to use forge and liteloader together? then install forge, next install liteloader checking the "chain to minecraft forge *version*" thingy. in the minecraft profile, choose liteloader as the version to use. it will load forge, too.

#148

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 01:53 PM

View Postteh60, on 17 July 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

Is there a way to "chain" liteloader onto forge's profile like with opitifine or SPC?  Because grabbing the line of code in the json thats
Spoiler:
doesn't work.  Same with having ignore discrepancies  and having no URL and extracting the jar with the installer program and then putting in the json line
If you're jar modding, then mod the LiteLoader version's jar and chain to forge using the installer. If you're using FML as the start of the chain then you need to add a cascadedTweaks option for LiteLoader's tweak class but it's probably just easier to use LiteLoader as the start of the chain.

Optifine to my knowledge is being updated to work with the new system as we speak.
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#149

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 02:58 PM

So if I were to start at liteloader and chain forge into it would i also be able to add json lines for optifine and SPC to work(I have them work for my forge profile so thats why)
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#150

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 03:03 PM

View Postteh60, on 17 July 2013 - 02:58 PM, said:

So if I were to start at liteloader and chain forge into it would i also be able to add json lines for optifine and SPC to work(I have them work for my forge profile so thats why)
Yeah you can start at either end really. Whichever way works for you. Both LiteLoader and FML support chaining so you can pick either of those as the "start" of you chain. LiteLoader is just more convenient because the chain can be created by the installer but there's absolutely nothing stopping you creating the chain the other way by hand if you want to.
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#151

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 03:11 PM

View PostMumfrey, on 17 July 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

Optifine to my knowledge is being updated to work with the new system as we speak.

While it is not quite as seemless as the liteloader install, you can put the optifine zip file (renamed as a jar) in the libraries folder (Mine is at C:\Users\[REDACTED]\AppData\Roaming\.minecraft\libraries\net\optifine\1.6.2\HD_U_B1\1.6.2-HD_U_B1.jar) and add the correct entries to the json file.

{
"name": "net.optifine:1.6.2:HD_U_B1",
"url": "http://optifine.net/"
}

The only runtime option you need then is -Dfml.ignorePatchDiscrepancies=true

This works with FML, and liteloader installed together (using --tweakClass com.mumfrey.liteloader.launch.LiteLoaderTweaker --cascadedTweaks cpw.mods.fml.common.launcher.FMLTweaker)

I'm sure someone will code us a nice GUI for dealing with the json files at some point (I hope) but for now manual tweaking will have to suffice. I wish I was up to it but my Java skills are still at a very basic level.
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#152

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 03:54 PM

"That's not an ungrounded assertion"

heh

"Now that reason no longer exists people are still defending the old method as if there were something sacred about it rather than it being something dirty and best forgotten."

I laugh while looking at ASM for forge and having to manipulate fricken byte code just to get the same done. Best of all this is just another another layer of ridiculousness to go through when you find another mod doing something with same class file. Now I'm right back to where I was before, only before it was much easier to just make a different version patch that would work with the other mod aswel etc.

Right now old methods of doing things kinda work, but your blissful future on where things will be and its locked down 'security' joke looks more like Mojang is going to kill the more modding scene for there game and the interest in doing it for those new to java, before there mod api ever even gets here ..which I find funny for some reason probably because I realize this mod api of mojangs is probably going to suck, as it looks like they've spent more time doing anything else but that. And how things were when people just worked around not having it was probably better for everyone. Will see whatever.
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#153

Frenetiiik

Posted 17 July 2013 - 04:15 PM

Yop,

I don't really get it, when I start Minecraft with Liteloader profile, all my mods are working except Optifine and SPC. I'm really noob with this new launcher, if someone could help me. Thanks.

#154

Dekain228

Posted 17 July 2013 - 04:16 PM

Hey Mumfrey, I've encountered a problem that no one seems to have encountered yet, so I might be doing something wrong. Anyways, I've installed LiteLoader, and Macros Mod for 1.6.2 which load and work perfectly on single player, however when I try to log into my server, I face an error message that states: "Failed to login: Bad Request.". This is the same with other servers that I try to join, I was wondering if there is a solution around this? Thanks

#155

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 04:16 PM

View PostKoogle, on 17 July 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

I laugh while looking at ASM for forge and having to manipulate fricken byte code just to get the same done. Best of all this is just another another layer of ridiculousness to go through when you find another mod doing something with same class file. Now I'm right back to where I was before, only before it was much easier to just make a different version patch that would work with the other mod aswel etc.
I wasn't bringing forge into the picture, I was just talking about putting mods on the classpath rather than patching them into the jar, which is still against Mojang's ToU but at least doesn't break the seal on the underlying jar, which is the major issue and people have been forced to go to third-party launchers to get this functionality in the past, but as I said on page 4 in my post about 3rdparty launchers, there's issues of trust and accessibility extant within the whole concept of 3rdparty launchers, and having this functionality in the official launcher removes all of that. However since you bring it up, ASM gives forge a way to do a lot of things that would only be possible with class modding, but without redistributing modified classes, thus putting them within the Mojang ToU, that's their decision to take and I see no issue with it.

View PostKoogle, on 17 July 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

Right now old methods of doing things kinda work, but your blissful future on where things will be and its locked down 'security' joke looks more like Mojang is going to kill the more modding scene for there game and the interest in doing it for those new to java, before there mod api ever even gets here ..which I find funny for some reason probably because I realize this mod api of mojangs is probably going to suck, as it looks like they've spent more time doing anything else but that. And how things were when people just worked around not having it was probably better for everyone. Will see whatever.
I'm not sure what you're driving at here, none of this seems to be based on any observations I can see, all that I personally can observe is that Mojang are pushing towards what looks to be a robust and extensible framework for the game and are taking logical steps towards that goal and changing to better solutions to things as they go. The problem is that your "better for everyone" isn't better for everyone. Literally millions of people play this game and the vast majority play vanilla through the vanilla launcher, the people who were "comfortable" before using 3rd-party launchers etc. are the minority and Mojang are right to focus on improving the core technology of their own platform even if it makes things a little uncomfortable in the short term for the people who were "comfortable" under the status quo with their third-party launchers and/or hacky mod-installation techniques.

Asserting that the new API is "probably going to suck" is based on absolutely nothing, since we have only 3 things to go on at the moment: Mojang's stated intentions (all of which sound robust, well thought-out and plausible), the internal observed changes in the game engine (again, looking at the changes in the last few versions, very positive steps are being taken) and the new launcher platform (which is powerful and extensible even if the UI does kind of suck, but the UI can be improved whereas the underlying platform is already quite solid and demonstrates a good grasp of what's needed to make a good environment for the game.

As to "kill the more modding scene for there[sic] game", I think it's very clear that they are NOT killing the modding scene, given that this new launcher and the tweak class stuff is incredibly helpful to modders and a great leap forward in terms of direct support for modding.

Also, "as it looks like they've spent more time doing anything else but that", this is just plain nonsense. I'm not sure if you followed Notch's blog during development but I did, and I remember clearly when Mojang was created and more people came on board that Notch decided that 50% of time will always be devoted to adding some cool feature, so that the devs could stay involved and interested with the game, and that the balance of time would be spent on improving the engine and solving bugs. Looking at the progress, 2 years on, this is still exactly what we see, with each update (especially 1.5 and 1.6) bringing both new features to the table and technological improvements in the engine and revisions for supporting the future API. I've also spoken directly with Grum in the past and know this to be the direction that they're taking, equal part content and API revisions.

So stop making antagonistic, unfounded posts like this because it just doesn't really achieve anything. Everyone is well aware the things are far from ideal right now but as a I keep stating, this is just because modders need time to catch up and upgrade to the new platform and will NOT last forever.
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#156

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 04:22 PM

View PostFrenetiiik, on 17 July 2013 - 04:15 PM, said:

I don't really get it, when I start Minecraft with Liteloader profile, all my mods are working except Optifine and SPC. I'm really noob with this new launcher, if someone could help me. Thanks.
If you're using base mods either patch them directly into the jar at the start of the chain, or add them as libraries using the method mentioned above.

View PostDekain228, on 17 July 2013 - 04:16 PM, said:

Hey Mumfrey, I've encountered a problem that no one seems to have encountered yet, so I might be doing something wrong. Anyways, I've installed LiteLoader, and Macros Mod for 1.6.2 which load and work perfectly on single player, however when I try to log into my server, I face an error message that states: "Failed to login: Bad Request.". This is the same with other servers that I try to join, I was wondering if there is a solution around this? Thanks
Sounds like your token is invalid, just log out and log back in.
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#157

bladze420
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Posted 17 July 2013 - 07:06 PM

Is there a way that I can just get the .zip for the 1.6.2 version? Otherwise the installer won't let it work with Forge.

Edit: nvm, I just blind, sorry


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#158

c0dejunkie

Posted 17 July 2013 - 07:32 PM

View PostWh1rledPeas, on 17 July 2013 - 02:41 AM, said:

I am using it just fine.  Temporarily, I have applied the optifine mod, as well as rei's mini map, and TMI, to a copy of Mumfrey's Lightloader jar.

Looks like you use a lot of the same mods that I use, is there any way you can explain what steps you did in order to install all the mods that you got working?? Thank you very much!!

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#159

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 07:34 PM

Hi Mumfrey I saw the new format you are using for Light Loader ;D not to bad I guess
but.. I'm wondering if you know how I can.... I use MC Patcher for extended HD, Connected Textures, etc...
and I use it to install Mod Loader as well.... how can I get them both to run together I use to simply install Light Loader via MC patcher with Mod Loader too...
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#160

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 07:40 PM

View PostMelchiorGaspar, on 17 July 2013 - 07:34 PM, said:

Hi Mumfrey I saw the new format you are using for Light Loader ;D not to bad I guess
but.. I'm wondering if you know how I can.... I use MC Patcher for extended HD, Connected Textures, etc...
and I use it to install Mod Loader as well.... how can I get them both to run together I use to simply install Light Loader via MC patcher with Mod Loader too...
Just select LiteLoader1.6.2.jar as the output.