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Question about maps and updates

map update

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3 replies to this topic

#1

watergirl

Posted 25 April 2013 - 07:06 PM

Forgive the naive question....

I have heard over and over that when there is an update,t hat you need to create a new map in order for the updates to take effect, like the up and coming horses.

If I request a copy of the map, which I sometimes do because I want to create something new but like the seed, will it include the updates? Or is it still the same seed?

Thanks!

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#2

gamergeek84
  • Location: Ohio
  • Minecraft: gamergeek84

Posted 25 April 2013 - 07:43 PM

You don't really need to create a new map for every update. Some things won't appear in an already generated chunk, but should appear in newly generated chunks. Nether quartz is a good example of this. After the update, you weren't able to find it in any part of the Nether you had previously explored, but new areas would have it. As for horses, I would think they'd be able to be found in existing chunks, but it's possible I'm wrong. (though I hope I'm not)

I'm not quite sure what you're asking in the second part there. As far as I know, seeds remain the same through different updates, with the exception of them generating the new items in newer versions. But again I could be wrong on that, I'm not an expert in seeds and haven't used them much.

#3

IronMagus

Posted 25 April 2013 - 07:44 PM

View Postwatergirl, on 25 April 2013 - 07:06 PM, said:

I have heard over and over that when there is an update,t hat you need to create a new map in order for the updates to take effect, like the up and coming horses.

For starters, you don't need to generate a whole new map to get the features, but you may need to generate new chunks in the map -- that is, travel far away to previously-unexplored areas.  The game doesn't create a part of the map until you come near it, so if you go to an area you have never been to before, there won't be anything generated there yet.  When you do go there, the game will generate the terrain, using the current game version to do so.

When jungle biomes were introduced, for example, they weren't in any existing maps, but if you traveled to new areas you could find one.  Later, when temples and pyramids were added, they couldn't be found in any existing deserts or jungles, but if you traveled to new areas you could find one.  When nether quartz was added, it couldn't be found in any existing nether areas, but if you traveled to new areas of the nether, you could find it, etc.

Note that these are all terrain features.  Having to do with the way the land is generated.  When new mobs are added, like bats or wither skeletons, you do not need to find new areas to find them.  I have wither skeletons in my old nether fortress, and bats all around my base, both of which were originally created in 1.2.5.  Horses, I imagine, will be the same way.  Contrary to popular belief, animals do spawn randomly in already-generated chunks, just much more slowly than hostile mobs do (one spawn cycle every 20 seconds, instead of twenty cycles every second,) unless you have a big farm or something clogging up the mob cap (animals have their own mob cap too, separate from the hostile mob cap.)  So once 1.6 comes out, all you should have to do is go a little ways away from your base or animal farm area, and wait around in whatever biomes they spawn in (if they're restricted to certain biomes, which I imagine they might be) and eventually, you should find some, even in old parts of your old world.

Quote

If I request a copy of the map, which I sometimes do because I want to create something new but like the seed, will it include the updates?
To answer your specific question, though, if you use the "recreate" option in the menu (I'm guessing this is what you meant by "request a copy" of the map?), then it will use the same seed & world options (survival/creative, superflat/default, etc.) but it will all be created with the current game version.  So, new features like jungle bilmes, desert pyramids, and nether quartz, will all be there even if the original world was created before they existed.  Depending on just how old the world is, the new one may or may not look anything like it at all (if it was created before jungles were introduced, for example, then the biomes might be all messed up, and if it was created before the terrain generator was changed, in Beta 1.7, they probably won't look anything alike.)

Quote

Or is it still the same seed?
You don't seem to understand what a "seed" is.  The seed itself will be the same, since a "seed" is nothing more than a number.  The terrain generated by the seed might be different, if the terrain-generation algorithm has been changed since the original map was created.  You see, "seed" doesn't mean your map, or your world save folder, or anything.  A "seed" is just a starting place, a numerical value that gives a jumping-off point to pseudorandom number generators.  Otherwise, they would just generate the exact same "random" numbers in the exact same order each time.  Nothing a computer can do is truly random.  They don't have emotions, and they don't make mistakes.  All they can do is follow the instructions that they are given.  So when a computer needs to simulate a random number, it has to start in a different "place" each time (or else use a different algorithm each time, but it can't write those by itself, at least not without outside help, or else it would just write the same one each time and we're right back where we started) or the output will just be the same thing over and over.  That's why you can get the same world in the first place, by entering the same seed for the terrain generator -- it uses the same jumping-off point, does the same calculations, and arrives at the same result.  If you don't enter a seed manually, then it (whatever "it" is; Minecraft, a pocket calculator, the "shuffle" feature on your MP3 player, etc.) will use some external datum like the current system time, milliseconds since startup, or the interval between the last user input and the one before it, etc., to come up with its own "random" seed.
Village Mechanics: A not-so-brief guide - Update for 1.4! Added subsection on iron farming to the iron golems section. Only ten villagers required to spawn golems (down from sixteen)! Put to rest the "facing doors cancel each other" myth!

View PostTechdolphin, on 30 September 2013 - 08:33 PM, said:

If you say plz because it is shorter than please, I will say no because it is shorter than yes.

#4

watergirl

Posted 26 April 2013 - 03:26 PM

View PostIronMagus, on 25 April 2013 - 07:44 PM, said:

For starters, you don't need to generate a whole new map to get the features, but you may need to generate new chunks in the map -- that is, travel far away to previously-unexplored areas.  The game doesn't create a part of the map until you come near it, so if you go to an area you have never been to before, there won't be anything generated there yet.  When you do go there, the game will generate the terrain, using the current game version to do so.

When jungle biomes were introduced, for example, they weren't in any existing maps, but if you traveled to new areas you could find one.  Later, when temples and pyramids were added, they couldn't be found in any existing deserts or jungles, but if you traveled to new areas you could find one.  When nether quartz was added, it couldn't be found in any existing nether areas, but if you traveled to new areas of the nether, you could find it, etc.

Note that these are all terrain features.  Having to do with the way the land is generated.  When new mobs are added, like bats or wither skeletons, you do not need to find new areas to find them.  I have wither skeletons in my old nether fortress, and bats all around my base, both of which were originally created in 1.2.5.  Horses, I imagine, will be the same way.  Contrary to popular belief, animals do spawn randomly in already-generated chunks, just much more slowly than hostile mobs do (one spawn cycle every 20 seconds, instead of twenty cycles every second,) unless you have a big farm or something clogging up the mob cap (animals have their own mob cap too, separate from the hostile mob cap.)  So once 1.6 comes out, all you should have to do is go a little ways away from your base or animal farm area, and wait around in whatever biomes they spawn in (if they're restricted to certain biomes, which I imagine they might be) and eventually, you should find some, even in old parts of your old world.


To answer your specific question, though, if you use the "recreate" option in the menu (I'm guessing this is what you meant by "request a copy" of the map?), then it will use the same seed & world options (survival/creative, superflat/default, etc.) but it will all be created with the current game version.  So, new features like jungle bilmes, desert pyramids, and nether quartz, will all be there even if the original world was created before they existed.  Depending on just how old the world is, the new one may or may not look anything like it at all (if it was created before jungles were introduced, for example, then the biomes might be all messed up, and if it was created before the terrain generator was changed, in Beta 1.7, they probably won't look anything alike.)


You don't seem to understand what a "seed" is.  The seed itself will be the same, since a "seed" is nothing more than a number.  The terrain generated by the seed might be different, if the terrain-generation algorithm has been changed since the original map was created.  You see, "seed" doesn't mean your map, or your world save folder, or anything.  A "seed" is just a starting place, a numerical value that gives a jumping-off point to pseudorandom number generators.  Otherwise, they would just generate the exact same "random" numbers in the exact same order each time.  Nothing a computer can do is truly random.  They don't have emotions, and they don't make mistakes.  All they can do is follow the instructions that they are given.  So when a computer needs to simulate a random number, it has to start in a different "place" each time (or else use a different algorithm each time, but it can't write those by itself, at least not without outside help, or else it would just write the same one each time and we're right back where we started) or the output will just be the same thing over and over.  That's why you can get the same world in the first place, by entering the same seed for the terrain generator -- it uses the same jumping-off point, does the same calculations, and arrives at the same result.  If you don't enter a seed manually, then it (whatever "it" is; Minecraft, a pocket calculator, the "shuffle" feature on your MP3 player, etc.) will use some external datum like the current system time, milliseconds since startup, or the interval between the last user input and the one before it, etc., to come up with its own "random" seed.


Very well explained, thank you!