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Cubic Chunks: Subterranean Biomes

cubic chunks

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53 replies to this topic

#1

Calacbolg
  • Minecraft: Terashock

Posted 08 March 2013 - 06:27 PM

-Discontinued.
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#2

Thatshaneboy

Posted 08 March 2013 - 06:47 PM

I spent some time reading and skimming through the cubic chunks post. If this system were to allow these features I think they would be Great and add a new sense of adventure to the underground. The Mantel however seems a little unneeded, at least with its depth. This sheer amount of lava is bound to create a lot of lag. The Mantel should go down 30-50 Blocks before hitting a bottom bedrock layer. This would further help Reduce lag and still allow for rare geodes to form. As long as geodes are very rare I feel that they should be added
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#3

Calacbolg
  • Minecraft: Terashock

Posted 08 March 2013 - 06:51 PM

Thanks for the support!

About the Mantel - so long as it generates infinitely downward with no holes, it shouldn't cause any more lag than the Nether's lava ocean. The lag from lava/water comes from the animation and rapid block updates from them flowing, but since there wouldn't be anywhere for the magma to flow, the only lag comes from rendering the animations.
At least I think that's the case, I don't know a lot about flow calculations.
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#4

Calacbolg
  • Minecraft: Terashock

Posted 08 March 2013 - 07:09 PM

View PostPawnguy7, on 08 March 2013 - 07:05 PM, said:

Hm... well, the idea of underground biomes, I like. On the top side, biomes are all very distinct, but underneat they are all about the same, besides emeralds. But I don't think the engine can handle it. for example, if you are in some sort of underground biome, does it have weather? What if it is raining in the biome above? etc.

The idea of an infinite world, though, is neat. However, I don't think it should be infinite downward - assuming that a given world in minecraft is the earth... well, he earth eventually has an end. This, and if it goes deeper, there needs to be CONTENT. A bunch of lava and nothing else is a bit lacking in this, if it goes for tons of blocks.

The idea of no upper bound, though, is useful. Well... I don't know if I would use it, but, say, you could expand underground, where sea level is, say 150. Then, on the other end, add REAL mountains, say, up to 1000 blocks. Just an idea, here.

Anyway, I don't know if underground BIOMES are plausible, but underground structure should be - for example, the small water lakes, are structures. We could similarly make a small cavern of gems, say.

It is possible - Read the Cubic Chunks topic to see how. The topic also explains how rain can be calculated, identically to sunlight and lightning. In addition, there's already a mod for underground biomes.

This topic is only about the underground portion of terrain changes accompanying the Cubic Chunks topic - oceans and surface terrain are for another day.
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#5

PCM_Dan
    PCM_Dan

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  • Minecraft: PCM_Dan

Posted 08 March 2013 - 07:29 PM

The first thing that popped into my head is those vertical block ranges need to be compressed substantially. 16 kilometers is a hell of a walk horizontally, let alone digging through rock or (worse) obsidian. Those are real-world distances -- a gaming-friendly number would be several hundred blocks at most, and only if you want to be really hardcore about it.

#6

Calacbolg
  • Minecraft: Terashock

Posted 08 March 2013 - 07:35 PM

View PostPCM_Dan, on 08 March 2013 - 07:29 PM, said:

The first thing that popped into my head is those vertical block ranges need to be compressed substantially. 16 kilometers is a hell of a walk horizontally, let alone digging through rock or (worse) obsidian. Those are real-world distances -- a gaming-friendly number would be several hundred blocks at most, and only if you want to be really hardcore about it.

I'm aiming to update this topic with more types of underground biomes. One point of the underground biomes to change the underground trek so it's not monotonous. Imagine, you're a kilometer below the surface, you dig down, and all of a sudden, you fall down into a vast but short cavern containing a subterranean forest, or a pitch black desert. Sure, no one wants to dig 32000 blocks down with our CURRENT underground caves, but the biomes should change that.
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#7

Badprenup
    Badprenup

    Retired Staff

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  • Minecraft: Badprenup

Posted 08 March 2013 - 07:41 PM

View PostPCM_Dan, on 08 March 2013 - 07:29 PM, said:

The first thing that popped into my head is those vertical block ranges need to be compressed substantially. 16 kilometers is a hell of a walk horizontally, let alone digging through rock or (worse) obsidian. Those are real-world distances -- a gaming-friendly number would be several hundred blocks at most, and only if you want to be really hardcore about it.
Agreed. The concept is cool, but vertical travel is much harder and/or more costly than horizontal travel. I think some kind of height and depth limits that are much lower than the near infinite width and length limits needs to be in place. Even a game with much more height and depth than Minecraft (Terraria) put some limits in place because while more biomes will make underground interesting, it is the trek required to get to these areas that is the problem. A fast way to travel distances vertically would help too.
Looks like my free time is going to be divided equally between Minecraft suggestions and Starbound suggestions from now on.

#8

Calacbolg
  • Minecraft: Terashock

Posted 08 March 2013 - 07:44 PM

View PostPawnguy7, on 08 March 2013 - 07:38 PM, said:

I re-read it to be sure, but I didn't see it. I find it to be different from lighting. Let's assume, on the surface, we have, say, a desert. But in some sort of magical cavern biome underneath, there is rain. But where does the rain come from? Normally, it would be skylight, but say the cavern is not a perfect chunk.  What happens?

Or, furthermore, assuming a global rain. Let's say we are using tiny, and we have four groups of chunks: empty on top, then solid, then empty, then solid. You are in the bottom empty. How do you calculate if the rain hits you? You need to load the solid chunks above. Either this, or more lag from every recalculation that must be made, but perhaps it is me.
This is already accounted for in the other topic - If a chunk is deemed to be underground, the heightmap used for sunlight says there's nothing above it since nothing's been generated there yet, a chunk deemed to be aboveground is not loaded above it, and enough underground chunks around it fit those conditions, all those chunks are instantly assumed to not be open to the sky until proven otherwise(A list of these unproven chunks is saved).

View PostBadprenup, on 08 March 2013 - 07:41 PM, said:

Agreed. The concept is cool, but vertical travel is much harder and/or more costly than horizontal travel. I think some kind of height and depth limits that are much lower than the near infinite width and length limits needs to be in place. Even a game with much more height and depth than Minecraft (Terraria) put some limits in place because while more biomes will make underground interesting, it is the trek required to get to these areas that is the problem. A fast way to travel distances vertically would help too.
Think of it this way - only a small amount of content is reserved for exceedingly deep depths. The only way to encounter this small amount of content is to be willing to make the journey.
Think of the trip like 'The Journey to the Center of the Earth' by Jules Verne.
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#9

Calacbolg
  • Minecraft: Terashock

Posted 08 March 2013 - 07:50 PM

View PostPawnguy7, on 08 March 2013 - 07:48 PM, said:

So, at what point are the unproved chunks proved, and what lag would it cause?
Whenever an aboveground chunk has been generated and the heightmap has been updated to show otherwise. It wouldn't cause any more lag than normal updates of the heightmap since those underground chunks would have to be unloaded to be proven to be open to the sky.
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#10

Calacbolg
  • Minecraft: Terashock

Posted 08 March 2013 - 07:57 PM

View PostPawnguy7, on 08 March 2013 - 07:55 PM, said:

I don't understand your last sentence.

Let's say that I have a single block at, say, 255. all the way down 5 is air, and so it would not receive sunlight. However, let's say I broke the block. Would this not involve checking all the way down?

I really don't want to bring the entire heightmap process into this topic. Read the Cubic Chunks topic where it says Sunlight: and it'll tell you everything you need to know.
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#11

EL_Kurto_15
  • Location: Australia
  • Minecraft: el_kurto

Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:55 PM

No one would dig down 32000 blocks even if the lava ocean was replaced with random diamond/iron/gold blocks.

A Christian has about as much reason to trust God as Chell has to trust GLaDOS.


#12

Calacbolg
  • Minecraft: Terashock

Posted 08 March 2013 - 09:09 PM

View PostEL_Kurto_15, on 08 March 2013 - 08:55 PM, said:

No one would dig down 32000 blocks even if the lava ocean was replaced with random diamond/iron/gold blocks.

Aaaand? Your point is...what? That there should be absolutely no content outside the scope of a single hour of casual play?
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#13

EL_Kurto_15
  • Location: Australia
  • Minecraft: el_kurto

Posted 08 March 2013 - 09:15 PM

View PostCalacbolg, on 08 March 2013 - 09:09 PM, said:

Aaaand? Your point is...what? That there should be absolutely no content outside the scope of a single hour of casual play?

No, that there should not be content that you have to dig though thousands of blocks to access so that no one will ever use...

A Christian has about as much reason to trust God as Chell has to trust GLaDOS.


#14

Calacbolg
  • Minecraft: Terashock

Posted 08 March 2013 - 09:32 PM

View PostEL_Kurto_15, on 08 March 2013 - 09:15 PM, said:

No, that there should not be content that you have to dig though thousands of blocks to access so that no one will ever use...

Who the hell said anything about anyone using it? It's something that's THERE. Just like the Far Lands before 1.8.
Yet, whenever a mod like BWG3 is made, people want the Beta/Alpha world generation to have the Far Lands. An ugly distortion of terrain that would take 826 hours of walking in a straight line to reach, and has absolutely no benefits. Why? You tell me.
The only differences between this and the Far Lands are; the time to reach would be much much smaller(After establishing a route); and there would actually be useful rewards for doing so.
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#15

EL_Kurto_15
  • Location: Australia
  • Minecraft: el_kurto

Posted 08 March 2013 - 09:49 PM

View PostCalacbolg, on 08 March 2013 - 09:32 PM, said:

Who the hell said anything about anyone using it? It's something that's THERE. Just like the Far Lands before 1.8.
Yet, whenever a mod like BWG3 is made, people want the Beta/Alpha world generation to have the Far Lands. An ugly distortion of terrain that would take 826 hours of walking in a straight line to reach, and has absolutely no benefits. Why? You tell me.
The only differences between this and the Far Lands are; the time to reach would be much much smaller(After establishing a route); and there would actually be useful rewards for doing so.

Barely anyone even want the farlands back because doing so would be pointless. Most of them probably just want them back so they can teleport there, check them out then leave forever.

32 thousand blocks is still way too far straight down to put anything. The only people that would use it are people in creative that teleport down there. Do you have any idea how long it would take to dig down that far? There is nothing down there that could possibly be worth the amount of digging it would require.

A Christian has about as much reason to trust God as Chell has to trust GLaDOS.


#16

Calacbolg
  • Minecraft: Terashock

Posted 08 March 2013 - 09:50 PM

View PostEL_Kurto_15, on 08 March 2013 - 09:49 PM, said:

There is nothing down there that could possibly be worth the amount of digging it would require.

And that's a matter of opinion. Here's a question: Why do you only care about the only two things I gave a minimum depth for?
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#17

EL_Kurto_15
  • Location: Australia
  • Minecraft: el_kurto

Posted 08 March 2013 - 09:57 PM

View PostCalacbolg, on 08 March 2013 - 09:50 PM, said:

And that's a matter of opinion. Here's a question: Why do you only care about the only two things I gave a minimum depth for?

What is the point of having the mantel generate so low? And the giant geode things are completely pointless as no one would ever reach them in survival when you have to go though thousands of layers of lava to reach them.

A Christian has about as much reason to trust God as Chell has to trust GLaDOS.


#18

Calacbolg
  • Minecraft: Terashock

Posted 08 March 2013 - 10:03 PM

View PostEL_Kurto_15, on 08 March 2013 - 09:57 PM, said:

What is the point of having the mantel generate so low? And the giant geode things are completely pointless as no one would ever reach them in survival when you have to go though thousands of layers of lava to reach them.

Your logic so far is:

"X shouldn't exist because doing Y is too much work for me."

Should the 4th power level of beacons not exist because "nobody is going to add 81 mineral blocks to the bottom of the pyramid just to increase the effect range by 8 blocks and get a regeneration effect"?
Should villager trading not exist because "nobody is going to go mining in extreme hills biomes for some of the rarest ore, just to trade it for items obtainable elsewhere"?
Should the End and Strongholds not exist because "nobody is going to get 3 diamonds, make a diamond pickaxe, collect 10 obsidian, make a nether portal, go to the nether, find a nether fortress, kill blazes, obtain blaze rods, come back, kill endermen, get ender pearls, combine them into eyes of ender, use the eyes of ender to find a stronghold, fight their way through it to the portal room, activate the portal, and kill the enderdragon just for recolored cobblestone, a useless dragon egg, and 3 full-level enchantments"?
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#19

EL_Kurto_15
  • Location: Australia
  • Minecraft: el_kurto

Posted 08 March 2013 - 10:10 PM

View PostCalacbolg, on 08 March 2013 - 10:03 PM, said:

Your logic so far is:

"X shouldn't exist because doing Y is too much work for me."

Should the 4th power level of beacons not exist because "nobody is going to add 81 mineral blocks to the bottom of the pyramid just to increase the effect range by 8 blocks and get a regeneration effect"?
Should villager trading not exist because "nobody is going to go mining in extreme hills biomes for some of the rarest ore, just to trade it for items obtainable elsewhere"?
Should the End and Strongholds not exist because "nobody is going to go to the nether, find a nether fortress, kill blazes, obtain blaze rods, come back, kill endermen, get ender pearls, combine them into eyes of ender, use the eyes of ender to find a stronghold, fight their way through it to the portal room, activate the portal, and kill the enderdragon just for a recolored cobblestone, a useless dragon egg, and 3 full-level enchantments"?

I have done all of those on my survival world. I am sure many other people have too.

Do you realize how far 8000 blocks of lava is just to get some ores? Can your mind even comprehend how many hundreds of times more difficult it would be to get to the mantel or the geodes then to do any of those things? And there is no way in hell anything could be worth getting through 8000 blocks of lava to get that could be obtained in a significantly easier way.

A Christian has about as much reason to trust God as Chell has to trust GLaDOS.


#20

Calacbolg
  • Minecraft: Terashock

Posted 08 March 2013 - 10:15 PM

View PostEL_Kurto_15, on 08 March 2013 - 10:10 PM, said:

I have done all of those on my survival world. I am sure many other people have too.

Do you realize how far 8000 blocks of lava is just to get some ores? Can your mind even comprehend how many hundreds of times more difficult it would be to get to the mantel or the geodes then to do any of those things? And there is no way in hell anything could be worth getting through 8000 blocks of lava to get that could be obtained in a significantly easier way.

Worth, is once again, a matter of opinion. If 32000 blocks is too far, like you said, then it's too far. You'll never see it, like the elusive Mushroom Island. You know what you will see? Every single other underground biome that isn't bound by height. Have you even read the whole suggestion?

You do have a bit of a point though. Changed the amount of blocks per blob.
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