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Thaumcraft 3.1? (not 4)


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#821

Efeudner

Posted 01 April 2013 - 09:59 PM

I had an idea for how to make flux/taint/balancing mechanics better, when I was thinking about the discworld series. I remember from the book I read (sourcerer) at the very beginning there where ant colonies that where highly intelligent along with other weird things. The explanation for this was that the high levels of magic within the university had mutated these animals, and had caused the other affects. Perhaps this could work in a similar way. Instead of having a base magic level and flux, you wouldn't have any magic level. Rather the more magic you do, the more magic you put out into the environment. Basically there would be an infininte amount of magic that you can draw upon. This magic doesn't exist within the world however. After you draw upon that magic, and use it for your machine, or spell or whatever it is just left sitting there in the world with no purpose. This is what causes chaotic things to happen until the magic drains back into its original source. A similar mechanic could be employed if you want to include spells. Basically some magic would be left inside of you after using a spell. That magic build up and harms the player.

edit; Also I really like alot of the mystcraft instability mechanics, such as random explosions, lighting strikes etct. Even if you leave the aura flux system the same, I think you should include more of these instability mechanics, and make them much more prevelent and random.
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#822

Helios_Noname
  • Location: Scattered about the landscape by a Creeper
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Posted 01 April 2013 - 10:02 PM

I like all of these ideas, honestly.

The lack of Aura/Vis would be fine with me, as the wands and their needed Vis charge was little more than an annoyance to me.

I also like the idea of having magical power tied to worldgen features again.
I do miss the old Obelisks from TC1 and underground void chamber thingies from TC2.

As for the Research, though I'm happy with how it is now, I wouldn't mind experiments with different and more engaging research mechanisms.

And as for fewer aspects, I'm neutral. I do think that there are too many in the current stage of this mod, but I expected for the less used aspects to gain more uses as more things were added to TC3 that needed them.

Oh, and one last thing: Please consider Ars Magica friendliness should you make a spellcasting/mana system. I'd like the two mods to be compatible.

The best reply to the above is probably "Shut up, you fool!"


#823

Laskeri
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Posted 01 April 2013 - 11:46 PM

View Postkol999, on 01 April 2013 - 09:28 PM, said:

Dude, motivation to have multiplayer experience is good! If you play alone, you will have to read your thaumanomicon, think what to chose, and use your brain, and on a server, you can just ask someone to share experience in wizardry. You can hold your "Research Pages" with discovery description, until you unlock all the different pathes, and chose one, that you like more. It's just absolutley NO fun to race with your friends on a server on who will unlock all the stuff faster, cuz most of people remember all the research aspects after first time. Yes, it's fun when you are the only wizzard on a server, but there should be wizzard coopiration! And if you are so archivement-hunty and want to catch 'em all, there probably should be an end-game research to allow "Double-Specialization", and research all the things, but it should be DEEP in the research tree, so noone can simply go rush through everything to it, and then research anything you want.

First off, not everybody likes multiplayer. You shouldn't have to force that on them, and Minecraft is a sandbox game. People shouldn't be forced to choose anything, which is one reason specializations aren't a good idea. Different research trees, with different types of blocks/items, maybe, but anything that restricts the player is bad IMO.

#824

tubera
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Posted 02 April 2013 - 12:28 AM

View PostLaskeri, on 01 April 2013 - 11:46 PM, said:

First off, not everybody likes multiplayer. You shouldn't have to force that on them, and Minecraft is a sandbox game. People shouldn't be forced to choose anything, which is one reason specializations aren't a good idea. Different research trees, with different types of blocks/items, maybe, but anything that restricts the player is bad IMO.

Many single player games use specialization choices. There is absolutely no reason why minecraft should be different, you already make specialization choices by choosing which mods you install.
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#825

Laughing_Man16
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Posted 02 April 2013 - 12:30 AM

View Postkol999, on 01 April 2013 - 09:28 PM, said:

Dude, motivation to have multiplayer experience is good! If you play alone, you will have to read your thaumanomicon, think what to chose, and use your brain, and on a server, you can just ask someone to share experience in wizardry. You can hold your "Research Pages" with discovery description, until you unlock all the different pathes, and chose one, that you like more. It's just absolutley NO fun to race with your friends on a server on who will unlock all the stuff faster, cuz most of people remember all the research aspects after first time. Yes, it's fun when you are the only wizzard on a server, but there should be wizzard coopiration! And if you are so archivement-hunty and want to catch 'em all, there probably should be an end-game research to allow "Double-Specialization", and research all the things, but it should be DEEP in the research tree, so noone can simply go rush through everything to it, and then research anything you want.

And about all the "complicated spells and asking people WUT DO ME DO??", one human don't have so many time to make so many spells and archvements, so there should be a few, like 3 times more then now, and they should all be descripted to you, so you don't need to google things like "how do me do magic lazor in da taumkrafft in miencrapht????!!111!1". Thaumcraft does a pretty good job with making player able to play without google, and I think Azanor can do all the chosing your destiny stuff.

Yes because god forbid some one in this day and age actually have to learn how to do something themselves by doing the evil task of thinking for their damned selves. Or even worse have to preform the pagan ritual of reading. We can't have any of those elitest tasks being preformed in this game.

And no mod should try to force people into a certain play style. MInecraft is not CoD. The main draw of it has never been the actual multiplayer aspect. This is why PvP is sub par, and why every other system in the game is balanced based on the single player experience first. And Thaumcraft is not a mod designed specifically for multiplayer.

View Posttubera, on 02 April 2013 - 12:28 AM, said:

Many single player games use specialization choices. There is absolutely no reason why minecraft should be different, you already make specialization choices by choosing which mods you install.

I can give a perfectly valid reason. Right here and now.

Minecraft is a sandbox game. Which allows you to do anything you want. And is not a narrative driven game where choosing a specialization is important.
Humanity is the creation of Logic and Emotion, Calculation and Imagination, Cold Analysis and Blind Faith. This is why I believe it is a strange Human that would prize one while shunning the other. For a calculator can do math just as well as you, but a calculator can not use math to make the world a better place.

#826

Laskeri
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Posted 02 April 2013 - 12:39 AM

View Posttubera, on 02 April 2013 - 12:28 AM, said:

Many single player games use specialization choices. There is absolutely no reason why minecraft should be different, you already make specialization choices by choosing which mods you install.

But most of those games are RPGs, or similar. The point of a sandbox is freedom. I agree that mod installations change the way the game is played, but it's more like playing the game in the way the collective (or singular, depending on what mods you installed) mod authors want you to play it. But that's a bit different, because it's less connected to the "game"? Iunno. It's still up to you to install certain mods, but you can still choose not to install them, therefore making the issue not actually "real". Sorry, I'm having trouble explaining it >_>

#827

Pitfalingpat

Posted 02 April 2013 - 01:18 AM

View PostAzanor, on 06 March 2013 - 05:01 PM, said:

So I have been doing a lot of thinking and messing about this past week and this is what I'm thinking of doing so far.
IMPORTANT: I'm still in the design and planning stages so none of this is set in stone.

Aspects
I've both reduced the number of aspects and increased them. Whaat?!  Posted Image

I'm reducing the number of aspects to 8, namely Air, Earth, Fire, Water, Positive, Negative, Order, Chaos.
These are called the Primal (or Primordial) Aspects.

Taking inspiration from Pyro27 and his Doodle God idea you can then get derived aspects by combining those aspects together. For example you get Light from Positive and Fire. These combinations get more and more complex as you get continue combining these aspects. In theory the number of aspects are limitless.

However the Primal aspects are the only thing that you use to power your magical doodads and spells and when you break down items you only get primal aspects... at least initially.

Research
I'm still developing my ideas for this, but my current thinking is leaning towards the following:
I'm going to use Nitor as an example. As one of the first things you will need to research it will have a 100% chance of having all the required aspects revealed. As the researches get more complex this chance will go down.
When you open up the research table and start working on Nitor you will see that it requires 2 aspects: Light and Energy. Neither of those are Primal aspects. The player only has access to primal aspects that he has gathered (I'll reveal how in the future). He needs to combine those till he has Light and Energy. Once that is done: Ta Da!  Nitor research is done.

Obviously I'm leaving out some details there, but that will be the (very basic) gist of it.

Nodes
No progress yet - until the above two is complete I can't really start redesigning them. What I can say is that nodes will probably be attuned to the primal aspects. There might be more complex nodes that have more than one primal aspect or even derived aspects. Also I'm using the word "node" very loosely. Current nodes will still exist, but the term will probably also include other objects that act as sources of aspects (obelisks, etc.)
if this Idea is not dead, I'm not too sure how much I like the primary aspects, I guess if every item in the game are secondary or tertiary aspect combinations it would be like nothing changed and only the level of control would increase, but it feels like too much of a change from the previous system, that one was very comfortable and accessible. Plus the doodlegod game gets frustrating when you are trying to find that last combination that you are missing to unlock the next tier. (the theory of everything in TC3.0X would be a good example)

Also wouldn't the need to combine aspects make aspect filtering and manipulation a basic skill instead of like late tier 2? in the current version there is a long process you go through, after doing the unified thaumic field theory where you discover how to separate the aspects into essentia liquid and store it. Such a thing seems necessary from the start in the 3.1 system... that was always a huge break though for me when I get control of it, suddenly I can save and store things for later, not waste my valuable multiaspect items like string (especially in thaumic bees) and rubber (IC2)

#828

devaking
  • Minecraft: devaking

Posted 02 April 2013 - 01:20 PM

i was reading up on all the post about having or not having the pipes in the next update.

then it hit me, the reason IMO Azanor removed them in the first place was to get away from the techmod fealing it gave and that is why he replaced them with golems. they are animated pipes.

ok ok most of us already know that. the thing is since he mentioned he kind of regret removing them, to me that means he has not found a way to recreate all posibility the pipe offered in a magi-punk way.

so to all that want the pipes back, lets figure out a thaumcraft way of getting those mechanics back without tecking it

ex:
-heating warded jar containing liquid redstone creates plasma . once connected to the arcane bore it can release the energie and activate machinery trough magic, with a distance of X determined by the magic rod in it.

-creating a "heart" to pump liquid magic around. having to carve pathways "in" the stone to let the flow of liquid vis circulate. maybe powering other device or reinforcing walls or magic barrier.


well you see what i mean. its magic but its the same has having energie or liquid pipes.

hope to see better ideas and that maybe one or two of them inspire Azanor.
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#829

Helios_Noname
  • Location: Scattered about the landscape by a Creeper
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Posted 02 April 2013 - 01:28 PM

View Postdevaking, on 02 April 2013 - 01:20 PM, said:

[click back arrow to see long post]

So, a type of piping that actually requires a pump? Not only does that sound cool, but it makes sense, more sense than many of the pipes in other mods.
I do like your idea of some sort of reanimated heart pumping magical energies around, it sounds very much like it could fit the magi-tech (to put it in Azanor's words) theme of the mod.

The best reply to the above is probably "Shut up, you fool!"


#830

BakuMinerGuy
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Posted 02 April 2013 - 02:45 PM

View PostAzanor, on 06 March 2013 - 05:01 PM, said:

So I have been doing a lot of thinking and messing about this past week and this is what I'm thinking of doing so far.
IMPORTANT: I'm still in the design and planning stages so none of this is set in stone.

Aspects
I've both reduced the number of aspects and increased them. Whaat?!  Posted Image

I'm reducing the number of aspects to 8, namely Air, Earth, Fire, Water, Positive, Negative, Order, Chaos.
These are called the Primal (or Primordial) Aspects.

Taking inspiration from Pyro27 and his Doodle God idea you can then get derived aspects by combining those aspects together. For example you get Light from Positive and Fire. These combinations get more and more complex as you get continue combining these aspects. In theory the number of aspects are limitless.

However the Primal aspects are the only thing that you use to power your magical doodads and spells and when you break down items you only get primal aspects... at least initially.

I've got some ideas for some derived aspects.

Fury = Fire, Negative

Storm = Air, Chaos

Warmth(?) = Fire, Order

Tsunami = Water, Chaos

Mud = Earth, Water

Breeze = Air, Positive

Eldritch(?) = Chaos, Negative

Looking forward to it!
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#831

mrplaque
  • Location: 'Murrica

Posted 03 April 2013 - 12:17 AM

View Postdchum1, on 31 March 2013 - 09:52 PM, said:

No, ProfessorAkayuki, you and mrplaque are not talking past each other; you really *are* missing his point.

[...]

Besides, if OP items must absolutely be added, then they certainly must not be permanent items.  Minecraft does not and *should not* have an (sweet baby Jesus I hate this term with a passion) "end-game."

Thank you, I was somewhat worried that I wasn't thinking properly. And I agree with you about the "end-game." My friend and I (who I've mentioned earlier in this thread) have discussed this before, when he was in favor of an "end-game" for Minecraft.

View Postkol999, on 01 April 2013 - 09:28 PM, said:

Dude, motivation to have multiplayer experience is good!

What if I want to play single-player with Thaumcraft? Maybe I have to use the internet with my latptop at McDonald's several miles away from my rural country home in Tennessee because I don't have internet and playing with other people is often not an option for me. Single-player Minecraft should always be a concern.
Please excuse my poor English, I'm from America.

#832

Natitan
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Posted 03 April 2013 - 12:43 AM

thaumcraft is about making sense of the unknown. all is centered around a special book.
some times i do not want to hold on to the book. i would like to put it into a book shelf and read the book there in that shelf next to my enchanting table. i dub the new book shelf the "thaumic library" acts as a 3 book shelf count for the enchanting table for equal-value.
recipe: like a normal book shelf but with Thaumicoms.

these two game series have very well defined magic spell system that you can pull ideas from. I loved playing these games and stayed impressed by the magic mechanics.

http://aselia.wikia..../Summon_Spirits
http://mana.wikia.com/wiki/Mana_Spirit

then i look at the final fantasy 7 magic system. which pulls each spell and skill and summon to crystallized spheres. then you can equip, level, and recreate them.

just ideas pulled from other sources and looked like the right topic lines of the thread.

#833

d95
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Posted 03 April 2013 - 06:00 AM

wait... if none of azanors design/concepts are ingame, doesnt that mean that the tc3 teaserpic might show some items that might come in the 1.5 port?

Posted Image


#834

Laughing_Man16
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Posted 03 April 2013 - 06:45 AM

View Postd95, on 03 April 2013 - 06:00 AM, said:

wait... if none of azanors design/concepts are ingame, doesnt that mean that the tc3 teaserpic might show some items that might come in the 1.5 port?

Not really. Of course it doesn't mean that it won't be in the next update either. Could go either way.
Humanity is the creation of Logic and Emotion, Calculation and Imagination, Cold Analysis and Blind Faith. This is why I believe it is a strange Human that would prize one while shunning the other. For a calculator can do math just as well as you, but a calculator can not use math to make the world a better place.

#835

Azanor
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Posted 03 April 2013 - 08:20 AM

View Postd95, on 03 April 2013 - 06:00 AM, said:

wait... if none of azanors design/concepts are ingame, doesnt that mean that the tc3 teaserpic might show some items that might come in the 1.5 port?

:steve_sneaky:

Posted Image


#836

MrArnoEnCo

Posted 03 April 2013 - 08:36 AM

i ,do'nt like this idee you put so much work in all the aspects and in the graphiq the aura note is the most beuitifull in mc i ever seen you you can't just delete it :'(

#837

StewBard
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Posted 03 April 2013 - 09:38 AM

View PostAzanor, on 03 April 2013 - 08:20 AM, said:

Posted Image
sneaky Azanor, what you got hidden away?

Posted Image


#838

ROCKDUD
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Posted 03 April 2013 - 11:17 AM

My guess is lots. Lots hidden away.
Something like an augmented research system (Tasks to complete, a couple of simplifications to aspects, but not many), a bit more content, a mild rearrangement of the tech trees, perhaps a few bridges with other mods. I'm thinking a Tech-Nerd Golem would be fun. (CC). Just sayin'. Maybe the Thaumaturge's research finally manages flight.
That's all I could think would be in there.
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#839

legspert9
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Posted 03 April 2013 - 05:28 PM

I very much like the idea of having the wand be less a magical wrench and more a multi-functional tool/weapon. I think that an easy way to manage many spells would be a lot like the power tool from the modular powersuits mod, using the mouse wheel to quickly change modes. An interesting feature would be to involve the Thaumonomicon in the more advanced spells, sort of like ni no kuni, perhaps adding a mini game of sorts. having spells be per person and not per wand would make server play more fun. You can give a total noob a set of quantum armour and suddenly he's superman, but a master thaumaturge might even be able to use some spells without any gear at all. I know this wasn't very clear, and I probably had several run-on sentences, but anyone who thinks I might be onto something, please reply and help me improve my ideas.
-legspert9

#840

legspert9
  • Minecraft: legspert9

Posted 03 April 2013 - 05:38 PM

View Postlegspert9, on 03 April 2013 - 05:28 PM, said:

I very much like the idea of having the wand be less a magical wrench and more a multi-functional tool/weapon. I think that an easy way to manage many spells would be a lot like the power tool from the modular powersuits mod, using the mouse wheel to quickly change modes. An interesting feature would be to involve the Thaumonomicon in the more advanced spells, sort of like ni no kuni, perhaps adding a mini game of sorts. having spells be per person and not per wand would make server play more fun. You can give a total noob a set of quantum armour and suddenly he's superman, but a master thaumaturge might even be able to use some spells without any gear at all. I know this wasn't very clear, and I probably had several run-on sentences, but anyone who thinks I might be onto something, please reply and help me improve my ideas.
just a random thought. MORE MULTI-BLOCK STRUCTURES! the infernal furnace is a good example, and my inspiration for more would be like the particle accelerator and fusion reactor from voltz. multi-block creations that are customisable  being as big or as small as you want.
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