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Disappointments with the redstone update


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#21

StenchOfHoney

Posted 11 February 2013 - 11:01 AM

I completely disagree with the negativity of the original post; Mojang did not fail us and added substantial new functionality with these updates. Even if you only wanted existing possibilities made more compact there were some substantial improvements, particularly the daylight detector.

Still, I find the hostility to the OP puzzling, Yes, his tone was needlessly harsh but the content of his post wasn't actually very objectionable and the replies were overly dismissive. Particularly with logic gates, why would having single block logic gates kill the joy in making logic gates the old way? If you wouldn't like them, don't use them, the old way would still work.

My view is that redstone's great problem is that it is too sprawling.I find there's no joy in having to rebuild substantial parts of what I've already made just to accommodate some fairly basic redstone functionality. Particularly given that my commute means I'm not exactly flush with free time these days!

So I honestly would appreciate these optional extras to make redstone more compact and I can't see any reason to oppose inclusion of vertical redstone in particular. In fact, I can't think of a feature I'd want more. Everything else I could easily live without, though the BUD block and adding some RedPower functionality would certainly be fantastic. Stuff like single block logic gates, inverters, timers, delays and a few features not mentioned, like bundling wires.

All this said, I'm not convinced that underwater or upside down redstone are worth the programming time needed to implement them. I'm also not sure what the redstone tunnel block is/would have been, but it doesn't sound vital to me either.

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#22

Sladej34
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Posted 11 February 2013 - 11:42 AM

I don't care for much of what you listed, except that handy BUD block, now that is more than useful in it's (secret) own ways.

#23

Zaibach
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Posted 11 February 2013 - 01:28 PM

As far as logic blocks I think we are fairly set as it stands. Part of why I like Redstone is because its fun and educational. A good part of the fun with redstone for me isn't just figuring out a circuit that works its figuing out how to cram that into the space I have allotted for it. While the educational part is letting me see what sorts of digital logic is required to make things tick.

That said I would like to see redstone circuits shrunken down a bit and I think that could be accomplished as someone else suggested, by letting us add dyes to redstone dust. Then having that dust not interact with other differently colored redstone paths. Allowing for different redstone paths to be placed directly next to each other. Maybe add a linking block or have one color be a universal connector.

Along with the long requested redstone being able to to be run on walls and ceilings as well as the logical blocks we already have.

While I am thinking about it one thing that couldn't hurt would be some sort of resistor block now that redstone can give differing signal strengths. Maybe something that uses Quartz and dyes. Or something and dyes, along with the standard BBROYGBVGW resistor color code. Since a resistor block would allow people to shrink their circuits by eliminating the redstone "dead space" between triggering points.
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#24

Natecraft

Posted 11 February 2013 - 01:53 PM

View PostSteven42lol, on 07 February 2013 - 06:16 PM, said:

Here is a list of ways mojang has failed us.
  • Redstone tunnel block: I was actually really looking forward to this, would be really useful.
  • Verticlal redstone: Come on! Why? Just craft it with a slimeball or something, at the very least would be awesome lighting!
  • Upside-down redstone
  • Underwater redstone
  • BUD block
  • Flip-flop block
  • logic gate blocks

Mojang didn't fail us, you just expected too much.
AFAIK they didn't even promise a lot of stuff on that list (And just so you know, them talking about maybe making something is not a promise to add it into the game) and this wouldn't make redstone any better, a large part of redstone is figuring out how to make something complex out of just a few simple parts.
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#25

Gnardak
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Posted 11 February 2013 - 02:18 PM

View PostZaibach, on 11 February 2013 - 01:28 PM, said:

As far as logic blocks I think we are fairly set as it stands. Part of why I like Redstone is because its fun and educational. A good part of the fun with redstone for me isn't just figuring out a circuit that works its figuing out how to cram that into the space I have allotted for it. While the educational part is letting me see what sorts of digital logic is required to make things tick.

That said I would like to see redstone circuits shrunken down a bit and I think that could be accomplished as someone else suggested, by letting us add dyes to redstone dust. Then having that dust not interact with other differently colored redstone paths. Allowing for different redstone paths to be placed directly next to each other. Maybe add a linking block or have one color be a universal connector.

Along with the long requested redstone being able to to be run on walls and ceilings as well as the logical blocks we already have.

While I am thinking about it one thing that couldn't hurt would be some sort of resistor block now that redstone can give differing signal strengths. Maybe something that uses Quartz and dyes. Or something and dyes, along with the standard BBROYGBVGW resistor color code. Since a resistor block would allow people to shrink their circuits by eliminating the redstone "dead space" between triggering points.

The main problem with redstone for me is that it takes up to much space. I like building the gates from scratch but they do take up too much room.

One idea that I had was that if you could build redstone components as we do now but have them take up just one block then it would be one way to make things much more compact. You could do it by having some sort of block(let's call it a redstone baseplate) where by clicking on it you'd be switched to some miniaturised area say 8x8x8 where you could build whatever you want using redstone components and connect it to the sides then when leaving that area that single block functions like whatever you built in it does.

You could make your vertical redstone in one of those by building a redstone ladders in vertically stacked baseplates. Just putting a line of redstone across a baseplate would act like a resistor. And you wouldn't need dyed redstone to make redstone not connect.

Seems more like an idea for a mod rather than for vanilla minecraft though.

#26

redstonevet90
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Posted 11 February 2013 - 06:36 PM

All I've wanted to see added for awhile has been vertical redstone. I thought this was going to be the function of the redstone block, but apparently not. I'd also like to see the spike block added sometime... I'm beginning to think that, that was just a myth.

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#27

vadagar
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Posted 11 February 2013 - 07:31 PM

I agree with OP

100%

mind you I just want my castles and houses to look pretty AND have clever red stone things in them, instead of abandoning much comfort for the sake of aesthetics, which I do... a lot
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#28

Jelara
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Posted 11 February 2013 - 08:11 PM

Somewhere in the weeks leading up to the first snapshot, I had gotten into my head that we were going to get a "really big redstone revamp".  I don't know where I heard it, most likely it wasn't any official source, It may have just been some youtuber who put that idea in my head.So all along, I had the seed planted for "really big". Basically, I was already set up for potential disappointment.

As the first snapshots came out, it was wonderland!  First one, yes, this is good, more more more. Next one, more good... keep it coming.

For me, the point where they switched to bug fixes, just came way too early for my pre-conceived notion of "really big". I think I was expecting about 3-4 more snapshots just with new stuff.

i really love what they did. But my mind, really big, which probably never came from mojang, is about 3-4 times bigger than what we got.

#29

Unilegger
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Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:01 PM

It's. not. done. frigin. yet.
Seriously, the update isn't till the near end of the month. They still have plans of adding more redstoney stuff.

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#30

BryGuy1
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Posted 11 February 2013 - 10:17 PM

Interesting discussion.  This back and forth redstone features discussion between those wanting more and compact stuff, vs. those who enjoy things the way they are and figuring out the circuits, reminds me of a discussion I had with my uncle who used to repair TVs.  (Yes, there was an era in which TVs could be repaired.)  LOL

Way back when, our TV’s where big and bulky (by today’s standards), with all sorts of vacuum tubes, wires, coils, and transistors all over.  My uncle enjoyed figuring out what was wrong, and making all those parts and pieces work again.  However, the day came when TV’s began to include more compact circuitry in the form of circuit boards and chips.  Sure the tubes, wires, and transistors worked fine , but the users wanted more (we always do, it’s in our nature).  They wanted more features and capabilities, and compact products.  In part because the world around the TV advanced, and the TV’s capabilities had to keep up.

It’s funny, but I see many of the redstone discussions in a similar light.  Some want things to stay the same, and are fine the way things are, while others want things more advanced and compact, so they can focus on other/new capabilities.

If the redstone features are to ever do more, then their current capabilities will have to become more compact.  It’s all a moving target. *smile*

#31

Bumber
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Posted 11 February 2013 - 11:02 PM

View Post7eggert, on 08 February 2013 - 05:25 PM, said:

For redstone up, you can use two columns of upside-down slabs. Still not as good as we want it to be ...
If only the pistons would retract properly, you could chain a bunch of redstone blocks and sticky pistons. For some reason it only works horizontally (they get stuck open going up or down.)

View PostRuuyn, on 11 February 2013 - 12:30 AM, said:

Vertical / Upside-down Redstone: one of the reasons the programmers rejected the idea of vertical half-slabs was because the states of a horizontal half slab could be fit into a single bit. Making a new kind of Redstone wire would be easy enough, but there are mods out there that accomplish that much more easily.
The game doesn't actually store redstone's direction at all. It's calculated based on the surrounding redstone during block updates. You don't need to use a new kind of wire:
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#32

minergirl
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Posted 11 February 2013 - 11:25 PM

id love tunnel blocks.... make things so much tidier

#33

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 11:52 PM

View PostUnileggerDripper222, on 11 February 2013 - 09:01 PM, said:

It's. not. done. frigin. yet.
Seriously, the update isn't till the near end of the month. They still have plans of adding more redstoney stuff.
I think some people have lost that train of though because the last 3 snapshots (05a/b and 06a) were primarily bug fixes. And I don't blame 'em, I expected more redstone involved blocks or game-changing features too. The 1.5 snapshot wrap-up is supposedly going to be in the upcoming weeks too...

#34

Droideka30
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Posted 12 February 2013 - 02:08 AM

I was waiting for linked minecarts... Might have given furnace carts a PURPOSE. Most of the things on the OP's list were never actually promised by Mojang. In fact, Mojang is under no obligation to give us ANY updates. Be happy with the FREE updates you get every few months. Don't complain if Mojang doesn't work on the exact features you want. This forum is a place where ideas should be shared, not squashed, but please, don't phrase it like, "Why didn't they add..."
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#35

chazonezeroseven
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Posted 12 February 2013 - 03:04 AM

I completely agree with you. mojang NEVER lives up to expectations, I have been disappointed since 2010, the halloween update which was never even finished *stillwaitingforlanterns*

though, I have found one use for the comparator
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curtosey of sethbling

you can place a redstone torch right beside the dispenser you don't need the extra dust

throw arrows/firecharges in. does them' jungles realgood'

edit- it used to be simpler, just a comparator and a lever was needed but this is still ten times simpler than a repeater clock, though I hope they will adjust them to make it use less redstone I was hoping this could be applicable as an LMG in combat but not if it's so slow to setup, it's more for an outpost or burning down jungles to reduce lag.

re- edit: 250th post, I am now Iron miner ;3

#36

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 03:36 AM

But....
Quartz is teh best block eva!!
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#37

Sourpowerpete

Posted 12 February 2013 - 10:02 PM

I personally don't get all the hate being thrown around in this thread, what the OP suggested (besides the underwater redstone and tunnel block) sounds amazing. Also, for those saying just get redpower 2, that's not the point of this thread, it's to improve the vanilla experience.

#38

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 05:42 AM

View PostSteven42lol, on 07 February 2013 - 06:16 PM, said:

  • Redstone tunnel block: I was actually really looking forward to this, would be really useful.
  • Verticlal redstone: Come on! Why? Just craft it with a slimeball or something, at the very least would be awesome lighting!
  • Upside-down redstone
  • Underwater redstone
  • BUD block
  • Flip-flop block
  • logic gate blocks
All of these were things we all wanted, but none of us got.

1. This would be cool yes, but code, man, code. It's a lot harder than you think.
2. Why would Mojang want redstone to be easier.
3. That's the same as 2...
4. Thats just pointless.
5. -not redstoner-
6. "
7. "

All of these that we wanted... Not a valid argument at all.
A large chunk of the MC community wanted this, and theres still a chance in 1.5 for these to pull through. Mojang has been one to pull surprises on us.

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#39

Sourpowerpete

Posted 28 February 2013 - 11:13 PM

View Postjpmrocks, on 26 February 2013 - 05:42 AM, said:

Mojang has been one to pull surprises on us.
A lot of them aren't pleasant ones though...