A quad core is NOT the bare minimum. According to who? What basis do you have?
Games are most certainly not utilizing all 4 cores yet. A dual core is and will be more than enough for quite a long time to come.
If you have ever programmed a game (or anything), you would know that properly threading an application is a LOT of work, and usually is not worth the effort. Especially when said program does not fully utilize the 1 or 2 threads it already runs on.
It is not necessary to provide evidence in support of a infinite-position argument. It is impossible, actually.
Games are utilizing and scaling to hardware. Maybe not the games you play, and maybe not the most popular games written in low-level languages (which, anyway, might not even have a thread model). The game producers concentrate on what will produce the most profit, and with so they try to scale their game on cheaper hardware, limit performance entirely (due to programmer laziness, lack of funds, or funding in other areas) because of contracts with hardware distributors.
If you have ever programmed a game (or anything), you would know that implementing concurrency in a language like Java (one with an excellent thread model) is trivial. Java even provides a concurrency package that allows you to implement concurrency without having to deal with the low-level Java thread model.
What in god's name is "ultra-parallel processing of infinitesimal load"? It sounds like you just took a bunch of random words and stuck them between one another.
GPUs were constructed to gain extreme ("ultra") parallel processing with very limited instructions of such, of small ("infinitesimal") load.
Oh the horrific irony in this statement. Lets not even mention that Minecraft has no parallel processing ANYWHERE in it's code. In fact, you don't seem to even know what it is. Here is a link, hint, it's not the same thing as multithreading:
Are you kidding? Minecraft has parallel processing in its client and especially the server. The Minecraft server spawns TWO THREADS PER PLAYER. The server buffers read/writes in a separate thread.
I know what parallel processing is; I write parallel software and libraries on a daily basis.
I am not even going to bother addressing the rest of your ridiculous post.
Because you don't understand it; I always expect this. While I'm not here to advocate all of my beliefs I do want to educate this community in the correlation between philosophy and all of life. Philosophy is essentially applied to computer science.
You write parallel software libraries on a daily basis, at 16?
I have just confirmed with multiple people that there is no one removed from the BF3 campaign when not using a quad core as well. I also cannot find a single thing about this anywhere else on the internet.
As for the rest, it seems you are too far into your own beliefs to see anything else.
Maybe not the games you play, and maybe not the most popular games written in low-level languages (which, anyway, might not even have a thread model).
...........
Wait woah woah hold up.
Which low level languages do not have a concept of threads/threading? Even Assembly can use multiple threads.
GPUs were constructed to gain extreme ("ultra") parallel processing with very limited instructions of such, of small ("infinitesimal") load.
That is great, your sentence about "ultra-parallel processing of infinitesimal load" still makes no sense. You are essentially saying there that a GPU can handle infinite load, which we all know is untrue.
It is not necessary to provide evidence in support of a infinite-position argument. It is impossible, actually.
-snip-
I have absolutely no idea what you are on a tangent about, that entire paragraph seems completely off topic.
What do you mean it's not necessary to provide evidence? Of course it is, you can't just not provide evidence if you have a claim, if you don't your claim is unfounded and has no proof.
Tell me more about the non-existent performance benefits that comes with overclocking.
No one said anything about overclocking. We are talking about how the frequency does not matter when selecting a GPU, which it does not.
Because you don't understand it;
I understand it completely. I understand that you are so far begone in your own self-indulgence that you have no hope of seeing anything beyond what you deem makes you "correct".
Games are utilizing and scaling to hardware. Maybe not the games you play, and maybe not the most popular games written in low-level languages (which, anyway, might not even have a thread model). The game producers concentrate on what will produce the most profit, and with so they try to scale their game on cheaper hardware, limit performance entirely (due to programmer laziness, lack of funds, or funding in other areas) because of contracts with hardware distributors.
Metro 2033 doesn't even use more than 2 cores partially, but it ramped my graphics card up to the point of displaying a heat problem I didn't even notice using AMD Kompressor stress testing. Kerbal Space Program works my processor the hardest out of anything I have played and even then it is a single core at 100% with a second at 30ish%, the other two sit at idle all the time. The only times I have ever seen more than two cores working on my processor are when compressing files or doing video work.
If you have ever programmed a game (or anything), you would know that implementing concurrency in a language like Java (one with an excellent thread model) is trivial. Java even provides a concurrency package that allows you to implement concurrency without having to deal with the low-level Java thread model.
It sounds like you don't have a high school education. GPUs were constructed to gain extreme ("ultra") parallel processing with very limited instructions of such, of small ("infinitesimal") load.
Not even sure what you are attempting to say here.
Because chunk loading, which is the only part of the Minecraft client that utilizes a second thread, doesn't really stress the processor much if at all. From a practical standpoint the MC client is single-threaded
So if I were to strip my i5 down to just using a single core I might see a slight increase in processor use from Minecraft?
Yes, but it wouldn't be noticable in most cases, maybe with optifine and extreme render distance.
Interestingly enough, the higher the render distance, the more load placed on the CPU rather than the GPU. You'd think it would be the opposite, but in fact, lower distances put more of a load on the GPU.
Try it out for yourself with something like GPU-z, it really is weird.
I have just confirmed with multiple people that there is no one removed from the BF3 campaign when not using a quad core as well. I also cannot find a single thing about this anywhere else on the internet.
Listen buddy, get a dual-core processor, open Battlefield 3, play the campaign. BAM. As I always say, what other people believe does not make something true.
That is great, your sentence about "ultra-parallel processing of infinitesimal load" still makes no sense. You are essentially saying there that a GPU can handle infinite load, which we all know is untrue.
Woah buddy, you still don't know what infinitesimal means, do you? Please reread and realize your absolute ignorance.
I have absolutely no idea what you are on a tangent about, that entire paragraph seems completely off topic.
What do you mean it's not necessary to provide evidence? Of course it is, you can't just not provide evidence if you have a claim, if you don't your claim is unfounded and has no proof.
No, you do not establish truths. My claims are always correct, and once you understand that, you'll understand that truths do not exist. You have a weak mind, unfortunately, and cannot process what I am presenting. It is only in you that I am not correct, and the likewise others that are coming after me, governmental, infinitely proclaimed doctrine coming from the majority rule... deeming themselves to be correct by majority alone.
I understand it completely. I understand that you are so far begone in your own self-indulgence that you have no hope of seeing anything beyond what you deem makes you "correct".
Yes, I have formal certification and programming is my hobby.
That's fine and all, but you do not create "parallel software libraries on a daily basis".
I know several programmers, and have experience myself. Parallel software libraries are a gigantic pain to make. You are basically telling me that you can not only make blueprints for a cruise ship on your own, but build it yourself too, and in under a week.
Listen buddy, get a dual-core processor, open Battlefield 3, play the campaign. BAM. As I always say, what other people believe does not make something true.
But that is the thing. I have played BF3 on both my old system (which was a dual core) and my current one (which is a quad core).
There was no difference.
Further research into this is telling me the same thing, there is no difference.
What character? What was his name? What mission was it?
Because I don't have beliefs, I have truths, and all of my truths are always correct, and hence I am always correct if I don't consider myself wrong.
I cannot believe you are so full of yourself, haha, wow.
Thread MODEL. Read.
I did. Which low level languages are you talking about?
Woah buddy, you still don't know what infinitesimal means, do you? Please reread and realize your absolute ignorance.
Perhaps you should stop inserting random words from a thesaurus into your posts and actually learn what they mean.
And we're resorting to insults now. How charming you are.
No, you do not establish truths. My claims are always correct
.................. This is laughable.
According to who? You?
, and once you understand that, you'll understand that truths do not exist. You have a weak mind, unfortunately, and cannot process what I am presenting. It is only in you that I am not correct, and the likewise others that are coming after me, governmental, infinitely proclaimed doctrine coming from the majority rule... deeming themselves to be correct by majority alone.
What,
In the holy hell, heaven and earth,
Are you even talking about?
Overclocking increases the clock frequency. And when was this about the GPU? Have you completely ignored my post?
I think you're the one ignoring posts here.....
No one has said anything about overclocking in this thread except you.
Overclocking in relation to clock speed when selecting a CPU is irrelevant, which is what I was getting at.
You're incorrect. You would notice a HUGE difference, a single-core processor would be pounded.
Correct, a single core processor.
Which is why I said anything beyond 2.
There is little if no difference between a quad or dual core for gaming.
Are you kidding? Minecraft has parallel processing in its client and especially the server. The Minecraft server spawns TWO THREADS PER PLAYER. The server buffers read/writes in a separate thread.
Please point out the exact code where this happens. I cannot find it on my own, as I don't have the education you do. I need a full explanation of that code, since we have absolutely no idea what we're doing, according to you.
I would also like to point out that you would need racks on racks on racks at the data center where the server is hosted to be able to support more than 2-4 players, if it indeed used 2 threads per player. I'm not even sure what you would even be processing on each thread per player. A location, an action every once in a while, and a few data pieces that get stored in memory are all that accompany a player. So, essentially, you'd be using one thread for a player's movements and chatting, and a thread for his actions?
Are you kidding? Minecraft has parallel processing in its client and especially the server. The Minecraft server spawns TWO THREADS PER PLAYER. The server buffers read/writes in a separate thread.
So you're telling me, that if I had 4 players on my server, I'd have 8 processes?
Please cite your claims. Or just don't make up untrue statements.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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I know, if what I know is correct CPU threads (i7 with 8 threads for example) != processes or threads
My interpretation of what he said is if I were to start a server with 3 people on, there'd be 6 java processes in task manager. Correct?
His wording is so off, honestly, he could be talking about anything to be honest.
I don't think even he knows.
But given his earlier posts I am 99% sure he means CPU cores/threads, not process threads. Especially after saying things about quad cores being the minimum now.
Games are utilizing and scaling to hardware. Maybe not the games you play, and maybe not the most popular games written in low-level languages (which, anyway, might not even have a thread model). The game producers concentrate on what will produce the most profit, and with so they try to scale their game on cheaper hardware, limit performance entirely (due to programmer laziness, lack of funds, or funding in other areas) because of contracts with hardware distributors.
If you have ever programmed a game (or anything), you would know that implementing concurrency in a language like Java (one with an excellent thread model) is trivial. Java even provides a concurrency package that allows you to implement concurrency without having to deal with the low-level Java thread model.
Tell me more about the non-existent performance benefits that comes with overclocking.
GPUs were constructed to gain extreme ("ultra") parallel processing with very limited instructions of such, of small ("infinitesimal") load.
Are you kidding? Minecraft has parallel processing in its client and especially the server. The Minecraft server spawns TWO THREADS PER PLAYER. The server buffers read/writes in a separate thread.
I know what parallel processing is; I write parallel software and libraries on a daily basis.
Because you don't understand it; I always expect this. While I'm not here to advocate all of my beliefs I do want to educate this community in the correlation between philosophy and all of life. Philosophy is essentially applied to computer science.
Just a developer :-)
You write parallel software libraries on a daily basis, at 16?
I have just confirmed with multiple people that there is no one removed from the BF3 campaign when not using a quad core as well. I also cannot find a single thing about this anywhere else on the internet.
As for the rest, it seems you are too far into your own beliefs to see anything else.
...........
Wait woah woah hold up.
Which low level languages do not have a concept of threads/threading? Even Assembly can use multiple threads.
That is great, your sentence about "ultra-parallel processing of infinitesimal load" still makes no sense. You are essentially saying there that a GPU can handle infinite load, which we all know is untrue.
I have absolutely no idea what you are on a tangent about, that entire paragraph seems completely off topic.
What do you mean it's not necessary to provide evidence? Of course it is, you can't just not provide evidence if you have a claim, if you don't your claim is unfounded and has no proof.
No one said anything about overclocking. We are talking about how the frequency does not matter when selecting a GPU, which it does not.
I understand it completely. I understand that you are so far begone in your own self-indulgence that you have no hope of seeing anything beyond what you deem makes you "correct".
If you have no evidence, just stop. Facts, observations, and evidence are the center of science.
Metro 2033 doesn't even use more than 2 cores partially, but it ramped my graphics card up to the point of displaying a heat problem I didn't even notice using AMD Kompressor stress testing. Kerbal Space Program works my processor the hardest out of anything I have played and even then it is a single core at 100% with a second at 30ish%, the other two sit at idle all the time. The only times I have ever seen more than two cores working on my processor are when compressing files or doing video work.
Isn't his job programming?
They exist, but per cycle Intel chips just do more.
Not even sure what you are attempting to say here.
Uh-huh.....sure. How come only a single core even shows any load on my computer then?
.........
I'm not even going to bother with the rest.
http://pcpartpicker.com/user/SteevyT/saved/21PI
So if I were to strip my i5 down to just using a single core I might see a slight increase in processor use from Minecraft?
http://pcpartpicker.com/user/SteevyT/saved/21PI
I should try this sometime. I've got to find something to do while waiting for my GPU to come back.
http://pcpartpicker.com/user/SteevyT/saved/21PI
I've recently build a rig with a G860 and 7850 for someone, and there is absolutely nothing they cannot play.
However if you have a lower budget, go with the A10 and no dedicated graphics card.
Performance wise, cores do not matter past 2, and clock speed matters so little you might as well ignore it. Interestingly enough, the higher the render distance, the more load placed on the CPU rather than the GPU. You'd think it would be the opposite, but in fact, lower distances put more of a load on the GPU.
Try it out for yourself with something like GPU-z, it really is weird.
Listen buddy, get a dual-core processor, open Battlefield 3, play the campaign. BAM. As I always say, what other people believe does not make something true.
Because I don't have beliefs, I have truths, and all of my truths are always correct, and hence I am always correct if I don't consider myself wrong.
Thread MODEL. Read.
Woah buddy, you still don't know what infinitesimal means, do you? Please reread and realize your absolute ignorance.
No, you do not establish truths. My claims are always correct, and once you understand that, you'll understand that truths do not exist. You have a weak mind, unfortunately, and cannot process what I am presenting. It is only in you that I am not correct, and the likewise others that are coming after me, governmental, infinitely proclaimed doctrine coming from the majority rule... deeming themselves to be correct by majority alone.
Overclocking increases the clock frequency. And when was this about the GPU? Have you completely ignored my post?
Bahaha!
You're incorrect. You would notice a HUGE difference, a single-core processor would be pounded.
Just a developer :-)
I know several programmers, and have experience myself. Parallel software libraries are a gigantic pain to make. You are basically telling me that you can not only make blueprints for a cruise ship on your own, but build it yourself too, and in under a week.
But that is the thing. I have played BF3 on both my old system (which was a dual core) and my current one (which is a quad core).
There was no difference.
Further research into this is telling me the same thing, there is no difference.
What character? What was his name? What mission was it?
I cannot believe you are so full of yourself, haha, wow.
I did. Which low level languages are you talking about?
Perhaps you should stop inserting random words from a thesaurus into your posts and actually learn what they mean.
And we're resorting to insults now. How charming you are.
.................. This is laughable.
According to who? You?
What,
In the holy hell, heaven and earth,
Are you even talking about?
I think you're the one ignoring posts here.....
No one has said anything about overclocking in this thread except you.
Overclocking in relation to clock speed when selecting a CPU is irrelevant, which is what I was getting at.
Correct, a single core processor.
Which is why I said anything beyond 2.
There is little if no difference between a quad or dual core for gaming.
You really like starting arguments don't you?
OP just get the build with a Pentium and 7850.
Get a different mobo, I'm seeing people reporting that one having BIOS issues.
Ya, Earthrace's. Good job pointing out a problem with the mobo.
Far too many new ones have had issues.
One of them was an IB Z chipset mobo that did not support IB, because it was using the SB version of the mobo's BIOS.
GG on that one, MSi.
Please point out the exact code where this happens. I cannot find it on my own, as I don't have the education you do. I need a full explanation of that code, since we have absolutely no idea what we're doing, according to you.
I would also like to point out that you would need racks on racks on racks at the data center where the server is hosted to be able to support more than 2-4 players, if it indeed used 2 threads per player. I'm not even sure what you would even be processing on each thread per player. A location, an action every once in a while, and a few data pieces that get stored in memory are all that accompany a player. So, essentially, you'd be using one thread for a player's movements and chatting, and a thread for his actions?
"Programmers never repeat themselves. They loop."
So you're telling me, that if I had 4 players on my server, I'd have 8 processes?
Please cite your claims. Or just don't make up untrue statements.
Hmm, seems to be somewhat weird in the way he put it though.
"Programmers never repeat themselves. They loop."
I know, if what I know is correct CPU threads (i7 with 8 threads for example) != processes or threads
My interpretation of what he said is if I were to start a server with 3 people on, there'd be 6 java processes in task manager. Correct?
I don't think even he knows.
But given his earlier posts I am 99% sure he means CPU cores/threads, not process threads. Especially after saying things about quad cores being the minimum now.
I too have had problems with MSi Mobo's, actually.