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[aceattwister]

Canownueasy, on 24 January 2013 - 01:57 AM, said:

-snip-

i used a Pentium G2120 for a while and it could max out far cry 3 with my 7870.
the chip being suggested is capable, and can actually plays games in the real world. not in theory.

[CodofMC]

Canownueasy, on 24 January 2013 - 01:57 AM, said:

It's really not. It will bottleneck the crap out of  the GFX card, and the OP won't be happy when he can't game and chat on Skype either...

Where are you getting this information from?  The Pentium 860 performs as good in games as an i3 2100 when both are tested with high end graphics cards.  Earthrace's build will most definitely not be bottlenecked and will perform FAR better in games than yours.

[Canownueasy]

CodofMC, on 24 January 2013 - 02:06 AM, said:

Where are you getting this information from?  The Pentium 860 performs as good in games as an i3 2100 when both are tested with high end graphics cards.  Earthrace's build will most definitely not be bottlenecked and will perform FAR better in games than yours.

Bahahaha! Gaming with dual-core processors is a joke, and will become obsolete when new games come out this year. Dual-core processors themselves are a joke, what is this, 2003? I've had quad-core processors since 2008, I mean, come on man... the world is heavily reliant on simultaneous processing because it gives you power without producing more heat or having to heavily increase chip size. A dual-core processor doubly increases the power, but with a quad-core, as I have chosen, you are given doubly double processing powerful, and we can't forget about the HUGE difference in CPU specs as the stock clock rate in the Pentium is significantly lower and is pretty much a joke.

OP, don't listen to these fools. You will be very disappointed when you cannot use your day to day applications and have terrible CPU processing lag spikes because the CPU they selected is absolutely garbage. Games like Minecraft heavily rely on the CPU, only rendering is done on the GPU, hence, expect major FPS drops when you get lots of explosions on your screen due to lack of processing power. Don't expect to run any applications while gaming, either, because with a dual-core processor you're either going to experience a heavy drop in FPS in your game and might actually not be able to game at all. The big bottleneck in gaming at the moment isn't really rendering, it's more focused on processing and that's why you have kiddos like these running around concerned so critically- in a budget build- solely on the graphical rendering capabilities.

[CodofMC]

Canownueasy, on 24 January 2013 - 02:25 AM, said:

and we can't forget about the HUGE difference in CPU specs as the stock clock rate in the Pentium is significantly lower and is pretty much a joke.

Right here is where you show just how little you really know.  Clock speeds mean absolutely NOTHING when comparing CPU's of different architectures.  If clock speed was such a big factor then your little A10 should be faster than an i5 3450 because it's .7GHz faster.  Honestly if you are really so concerned about the number of cores, then the OP can get an i3 which has hyperthreading, is more powerful than the A10, and is cheaper as well.  Plus with an i3 you have a MUCH better upgrade path.

[BKrenz]

Canownueasy, on 24 January 2013 - 02:25 AM, said:

-snip-

I'm sorry, but can you back up your claim?

[Canownueasy]

CodofMC, on 24 January 2013 - 02:33 AM, said:

Right here is where you show just how little you really know.  Clock speeds mean absolutely NOTHING when comparing CPU's of different architectures.  If clock speed was such a big factor then your little A10 should be faster than an i5 3450 because it's .7GHz faster.  Honestly if you are really so concerned about the number of cores, then the OP can get an i3 which has hyperthreading, is more powerful than the A10, and is cheaper as well.  Plus with an i3 you have a MUCH better upgrade path.

Clock speed means very much in terms of raw performance. I can Bitcoin mine like an alpha with a 2005 CPU at 5GHz. Anyway, the A10 is significantly cheaper than the i5, and of course the i5 beats the A10. I'm an Intel fanboy anyway, it's just that the A10 blows the Pentium G860 out of the park. The OP is getting much more processing power with the A10, and this processing power affects his gaming experience as well. While an i3 does offer a better upgrade path, you're getting more bang for your buck with the A10. The A10 was selected for the budget build because of its out-of-the-box-ready Crossfire with the HD 6000-series line from AMD.

You're concerned so much with minutiae raw rendering power and forgetting that the CPU is actually just as important as the GPU.

BKrenz, on 24 January 2013 - 02:33 AM, said:

I'm sorry, but can you back up your claim?

Yes, please look at the codebase of Minecraft. Not even all of LWJGL is shipping to the GPU, most of the processing is actually done by the CPU. And this goes likewise with other games... the reason GPUs exist is for ultra-parallel processing of infinitesimal load. And you'll know this if you had any clue about software engineering; game software engineering, in this especial case.

[Quanni123X]

Canownueasy, on 24 January 2013 - 02:25 AM, said:

Bahahaha! Gaming with dual-core processors is a joke, and will become obsolete when new games come out this year. Dual-core processors themselves are a joke, what is this, 2003?

You should work at AMD
MOAE COREZ = MOAR PERFORMANCE

[Wolley74]

Canownueasy, on 24 January 2013 - 03:01 AM, said:

-snip for sake of sanity-

dude, no, no no no no no, no no. that is not how CPUs work, the arch is different, you have little to no knowledge at all in this field that your showing, and Earthrace has been posting here on this section far far far far far longer then you, as has BKrenz, CodOfMC, Quanni, Steevy and myself. this is what we do in our spare time, and we know our facts, until you learn yours, do not post help

plus, no game can even use for cores that he's playing, so really the A10 is still pointless

[BKrenz]

Canownueasy, on 24 January 2013 - 03:01 AM, said:

-snip-

I would like to note that OP never once specified he intends to only use this for Minecraft. If he was, XFire is pointless as it is not supported. I would also like to note that you CANNOT use Minecraft as an example of a gaming situation because of its ridiculously poor coding. There is dead code and memory leaks all over the place. I have looked at the source code.

While I agree a CPU is completely necessary, having the Pentium paired with the 7770 will provide better results overall because, as you said, the GPU is only there to handle some of the processing. Most games load the processing onto the GPU.

I completely respect the A10. I also recognize a dedicated GPU + dedicated CPU will be more efficient. You also have to realize that the A10's four cores consist of both CPU and GPU, meaning that you don't have four cores of dedicated processing from the CPU. The GPU still has to use quite a bit of the power packed into the A10 to produce the results it does.

[CodofMC]

Canownueasy, on 24 January 2013 - 03:01 AM, said:

-snip-

I'm just going to stop bothering with you because you really don't know what you're talking about.

OP, here is another build with more processing power than Earthrace's but with a weaker graphics card.


PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU:  Intel Core i3-2100 3.1GHz Dual-Core Processor  ($115.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard:  MSI B75MA-P45 Micro ATX  LGA1155 Motherboard  ($66.24 @ Amazon)
Memory:  Corsair 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3-1333 Memory  ($22.99 @ NCIX US)
Storage:  Seagate Barracuda 500GB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($49.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card:  PowerColor Radeon HD 7750 1GB Video Card  ($92.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Case:  NZXT Gamma Classic (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case  ($35.75 @ Amazon)
Power Supply:  Antec Neo Eco 400W 80 PLUS Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply  ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive:  Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer  ($15.98 @ Outlet PC)
Operating System:  Microsoft Windows 8 (OEM) (64-bit)  ($84.99 @ NCIX US)
Total: $514.89
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-01-23 22:08 EST-0500)

It won't play games as well due to the weaker graphics card, but the CPU will allow you to multitask better and the motherboard is more future-proof since it supports upgrading to an Ivy Bridge CPU.

[aceattwister]

CodofMC, on 24 January 2013 - 03:15 AM, said:

-SNIP-

i love how the origonal build posted was around $400, and were making our ways up to $500....

soon we'll be suggesting $1200 builds...

[CodofMC]

aceattwister, on 24 January 2013 - 03:23 AM, said:

i love how the origonal build posted was around $400, and were making our ways up to $500....

soon we'll be suggesting $1200 builds...

I made my build $500 because that's how much the build with the 7850 is.  The price shown in the post includes rebates.  It's actual price if you click the link is $500.

[WhyAmIOnFire]

Canownueasy, on 24 January 2013 - 03:01 AM, said:

...2005 CPU at 5GHz...

I'm somewhat doubtful of this. Which processor? And what kind of cooling?

[earthrace57]

Canownueasy, on 24 January 2013 - 01:43 AM, said:

I'm leaving you lots of headroom. Feel free to upgrade the case, CPU cooler, or motherboard. This build will do fine for any game with high settings and gives you lots of processing power for applications, too.

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/zeet

CPU:  AMD A10-5800K 3.8GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($116.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler:  Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler  ($24.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard:  Biostar Hi-Fi A85W ATX  FM2 Motherboard  ($71.97 @ Newegg)
Memory:  G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-2133 Memory  ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Storage:  Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($69.99 @ NCIX US)
Video Card:  Diamond Radeon HD 6670 2GB Video Card  ($73.98 @ Newegg)
Case:  Raidmax Super Hurricane (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case  ($15.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply:  Antec Neo Eco 400W 80 PLUS Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply  ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $453.89

The above builds will make you really disappointed. This build offers maximal performance with a low price tag along with sweet aesthetics and a clean setup. The build is ready for lots of overclocking.

Your build was wrong because you selected far too slow memory to be used by the APU, the faster memory you have with an APU the better it runs because there is no true memory modules tagged along with the APU and hence it relies on system RAM, which can be slow (as in your case, at 1300MHz).

Crossfiring with my build provides superior performance ready to play games at high-ultra settings at 1080p (HD). You won't be disappointed.

Heh?  I hate to break it to you, but my Pentium can at least tie the APU in terms of CPU performance, in gaming. Also, the 7850 will DOMINATE what you put in, also, CF has microstuttering issues, etc etc

Also, /cringe on relatively low end PSU, motherboard, case, Diamond is a horrible brand, and the 212 EVO isn't the best....

SteevyT, on 24 January 2013 - 01:51 AM, said:

I still can't believe Earthrace managed to get a 7850 into a build that cheap.

Sandybridge 3 GHz Pentium....people still seem to underestimate them

Canownueasy, on 24 January 2013 - 01:57 AM, said:

It's really not. It will bottleneck the crap out of  the GFX card, and the OP won't be happy when he can't game and chat on Skype either...

Anyway, here's an even better-performing build which plays games on high/ultra settings with no problems and even maxed out at a somewhat playable frame rate.

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/zenr

CPU:  AMD A10-5800K 3.8GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($116.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler:  Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler  ($24.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard:  Biostar Hi-Fi A85W ATX  FM2 Motherboard  ($71.97 @ Newegg)
Memory:  G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-2133 Memory  ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Storage:  Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($69.99 @ NCIX US)
Video Card:  Asus Radeon HD 6670 1GB Video Card  ($88.98 @ Amazon)
Case:  Raidmax Super Hurricane (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case  ($15.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply:  Antec Neo Eco 400W 80 PLUS Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply  ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $468.89

You underestimate the Pentium, don't you. A celeron processor, which is, I might add, 500 MHz slower, doesn't bottleneck a GTX 560 Ti in games, and said GPU is only slightly slower than the 7850...

GPU matters a hell of a lot more in games than CPU.

Also, same low-end misc components as other, except you put a decent brand in for the 6670.

[SteevyT]

earthrace57, on 24 January 2013 - 05:55 AM, said:

Sandybridge 3 GHz Pentium....people still seem to underestimate them

I'm not underestimating, I just didn't realize the price on them was so cheap.

[earthrace57]

SteevyT, on 24 January 2013 - 05:58 AM, said:

I'm not underestimating, I just didn't realize the price on them was so cheap.

Didn't say you were...just a lot of people seem to detest Pentiums...which, as long as they are SNB, are quite capable

And yea, them being dirt cheap helps.

[CodofMC]

SteevyT, on 24 January 2013 - 05:58 AM, said:

I'm not underestimating, I just didn't realize the price on them was so cheap.

Intel should probably change the name of the Pentium line just because the name alone makes people think they're bad.  Although the Pentium processor used to be a poor performer, the current ones are simply i3 processors without hyperthreading.  For a dual core i3, the price is fantastic.

[Canownueasy]

Wolley74, on 24 January 2013 - 03:10 AM, said:

dude, no, no no no no no, no no. that is not how CPUs work, the arch is different, you have little to no knowledge at all in this field that your showing, and Earthrace has been posting here on this section far far far far far longer then you, as has BKrenz, CodOfMC, Quanni, Steevy and myself. this is what we do in our spare time, and we know our facts, until you learn yours, do not post help

plus, no game can even use for cores that he's playing, so really the A10 is still pointless

Facts do not exist, as I've mentioned before, nothing can ever be proven true to me because the evidence presented is in the same mind state as the common man- and not as I and many others would prefer. If you can provide to me, Platonic evidence, then I can consider what you present to be a truth. Unfortunately for you, providing such evidence cannot be based on the majority, and likewise kiddos are very biased to the majority... and a similar pattern exists within this community.

Tons and tons of games fully take advantage of a quad-core CPU. Battlefield 3, for example, goes to the extent of REMOVING game features if not playing on a 4 core+ CPU. A quad-core is the bare minimum for an all-around gaming build. This is no longer 2008, where your "facts" probably come from- games are now fully exploiting all of available processing power, scaling to hardware information. If you've ever programmed a game you'll know that you can get easy performance by scaling to hardware, and especially in a language where you've got an arsenal of concurrent libraries and a state-of-the-art thread model, like Java.

[SteevyT]

CodofMC, on 24 January 2013 - 06:03 AM, said:

Intel should probably change the name of the Pentium line just because the name alone makes people think they're bad.  Although the Pentium processor used to be a poor performer, the current ones are simply i3 processors without hyperthreading.  For a dual core i3, the price is fantastic.

As a suggestion, how about they kill the Pentium line, and rename it either the i1 or i2?

Canownueasy, on 24 January 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:

Facts do not exist, .....

Dafuq?  You are on the science forum, trying to argue with a few people with very heavy math and science backgrounds.  You might want to choose how you present stuff more carefully.

[SM8]

Canownueasy, on 24 January 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:

Facts do not exist

Spoiler:

Also, DIAMOND card? Seriously?


And to the dude who had the 7850: 1-up


PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU:  Intel Pentium G645 2.9GHz Dual-Core Processor  ($49.99 @ Microcenter)
Motherboard:  ASRock H61M-DGS Micro ATX  LGA1155 Motherboard  ($44.99 @ Amazon)
Memory:  Mushkin Silverline 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1333 Memory  ($33.84 @ NCIX US)
Storage:  Seagate Barracuda 500GB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($49.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card:  HIS Radeon HD 7870 2GB Video Card  ($199.99 @ Newegg)
Case:  MSI TC- (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case  ($22.99 @ Microcenter)
Power Supply:  Corsair Builder 430W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V Power Supply  ($34.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $436.78

Granted, the 645 is weak for the 7870, but honestly an i3 is just too much to justify at this price point. It also has one heck of an upgrade path.
(And honestly who needs ODDs anymore when we can burn the ISO to a spare USB stick?)