Would a redditly inclined user mind (regarding this) post there and/or PM redstonehelper about the "model format improvements" not actually being implemented? It's kinda frustrating that the info is just plain wrong. I feel bad for the poor saps out there that used Mog's post to update models and prepare new ones, read the changelog on reddit, and then went into the actual game to find all of their models broken
The only thing they did with the block model format was add more block states and more block models.
At least redstone wire and pistons have models now! Doesn't do me any good yet for pistons, because I can't give pistons a different head side texture yet. Stairs also have models now, but all I want to do for those is give them a different texture, too
"I'm an outsider by choice, but not truly.
It’s the unpleasantness of the system that keeps me out.
I’d rather be in, in a good system. That’s where my discontent comes from:
being forced to choose to stay outside.
My advice: Just keep movin’ straight ahead.
Every now and then you find yourself in a different place."
-George Carlin
Feel free to add it to your own resource pack without any restriction. No credit is required, though a link back to Sanity is appreciated if you feel like it.
You beat be to the punch, I was planning on making something like that, though it is less needed with my Packs Snapshot format.
Feel free to add it to your own resource pack without any restriction. No credit is required, though a link back to Sanity is appreciated if you feel like it.
Erm, I was about to make my redstone 3D, and I noticed that you didn't fully fix this. Redstone going up blocks is still broken.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I'm an outsider by choice, but not truly.
It’s the unpleasantness of the system that keeps me out.
I’d rather be in, in a good system. That’s where my discontent comes from:
being forced to choose to stay outside.
My advice: Just keep movin’ straight ahead.
Every now and then you find yourself in a different place."
-George Carlin
Erm, I was about to make my redstone 3D, and I noticed that you didn't fully fix this. Redstone going up blocks is still broken.
I knew I forgot to test something.
Guess I'll have to figure that out now. Stand by!
Edit: Well.... either I'm stupid or it's bugged. I can get it to look correct when it's a strait line going up-hill, but if the lower redstone goes off in any other direction at the base the side segment still turns sideways... even though I'm doing the same thing in the block model as I did with the one that works.
Can anyone more pro at this take a look at it and see if they can get it to work. Because I'm at my wit's end here.
Thanks in advance.
Edit Again: Wait... wait... I think I've got it... Just gotta try one more thing...
Edit Yet Again: Texture stretching is the bane of my existence.
Edit Again Again: This would probably go faster if I weren't doing this at three in the morning when I'm supposed to be sleeping.
Edit Final:GOT IT! You can download the (hopefully perfect) version HERE. Please let me know if there are still any problems with it.
For right now, I'm going to bed! THANK YOU MINECRAFTFORUM! GOODNIGHT!
Doesn't look like anything significant changed this go round. There were some model changes but it looks like we still don't have the new format. For the curious, here is the raw diff:
Only in 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block: enchanting_table.json
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/beacon.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/beacon.json differ
Only in 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes: enchanting_table_base.json
Only in 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes: missingno.json
Only in 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes: mob_spawner_cage.json
Only in 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes: portal_ew.json
Only in 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes: portal_ns.json
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/rail_curved.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/rail_curved.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/rail_flat.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/rail_flat.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/rail_raised_ne.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/rail_raised_ne.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/rail_raised_sw.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/rail_raised_sw.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_ne.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_ne.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_n.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_n.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_none.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_none.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_nse.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_nse.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_nsew.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_nsew.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_nsue.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_nsue.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_nue.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_nue.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_nuse.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_nuse.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_nusue.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_nusue.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_une.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_une.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unse.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unse.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unsew.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unsew.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_uns.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_uns.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unsue.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unsue.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unsuew.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unsuew.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unue.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unue.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unuse.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unuse.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unusew.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unusew.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unus.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unus.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unusue.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unusue.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unusueuw.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unusueuw.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unusuew.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unusuew.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/reeds.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/reeds.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/vine_2.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/vine_2.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/vine_2u.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/vine_2u.json differ
Only in 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block: missingno.json
Only in 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block: mob_spawner.json
Only in 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block: portal.json
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Tis far better to be a witty fool than a foolish wit.
Doesn't look like anything significant changed this go round. There were some model changes but it looks like we still don't have the new format. For the curious, here is the raw diff:
I'm not exactly sure what they did here. I can tell you though, they messed up redstone (models this time), again. The "textureFacing" values of the regular and overlay images were swapped.
Seriously, I just made the redstone wire models, and now they're already broken! What's the point in changing an arbitrary texture association when weeks ago you were making it sound like texture specification was implementable? That just seems like they're trying to break things (or at least be careless about not making unnecessary changes)!
For some reason I just want to scream "Dunderhead!" at whoever has been making these screw-ups. That word, specifically, which is weird because I don't even remember learning that word.....
"I'm an outsider by choice, but not truly.
It’s the unpleasantness of the system that keeps me out.
I’d rather be in, in a good system. That’s where my discontent comes from:
being forced to choose to stay outside.
My advice: Just keep movin’ straight ahead.
Every now and then you find yourself in a different place."
-George Carlin
Those model changes were probably made days/weeks ago and just slipped in as the result of needing a more recent version to base the bug fixes on. (Version control shenanigans basically.)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Tis far better to be a witty fool than a foolish wit.
I'm not exactly sure what they did here. I can tell you though, they messed up redstone (models this time), again. The "textureFacing" values of the regular and overlay images were swapped.
Seriously, I just made the redstone wire models, and now they're already broken! What's the point in changing an arbitrary texture association when weeks ago you were making it sound like texture specification was implementable? That just seems like they're trying to break things (or at least be careless about not making unnecessary changes)!
For some reason I just want to scream "Dunderhead!" at whoever has been making these screw-ups. That word, specifically, which is weird because I don't even remember learning that word.....
And this was why I didn't want to futz with the models until 1.8 was released.
*sigh*
Guess I'll get to work on re-fixing redstone.
Edit: Oh, Excellent! Item Frames cause the game to crash in this version! WONDERFUL! There goes my entire test world.
"I'm an outsider by choice, but not truly.
It’s the unpleasantness of the system that keeps me out.
I’d rather be in, in a good system. That’s where my discontent comes from:
being forced to choose to stay outside.
My advice: Just keep movin’ straight ahead.
Every now and then you find yourself in a different place."
-George Carlin
And this was why I didn't want to futz with the models until 1.8 was released. *sigh* Guess I'll get to work on re-fixing redstone. Edit: Oh, Excellent! Item Frames cause the game to crash in this version! WONDERFUL! There goes my entire test world.
Yeah.... You'll probably have to switch your textureFacing values on your "cross" textured elements. In other words, up is down. EDIT: The rails/vine file changes were just for fixing bugs.
Or...you could swap the images in your texture pack, further breaking support with 1.7, combined with the already broken enchantment table GUI and the fact that the redstone texture itself is rotated 90 degrees. Honestly this is the point where I start sacrificing compatibility for minimizing redundancy (the bad kind!).
Or...you could swap the images in your texture pack, further breaking support with 1.7, combined with the already broken enchantment table GUI and the fact that the redstone texture itself is rotated 90 degrees. Honestly this is the point where I start sacrificing compatibility for minimizing redundancy (the bad kind!).
Well, not really if you consider the fact that if you're going to break the texture anyways, there's no point in trying to fix the rotation in the model files, which means you have no need to fix the main/overlay image swap, so you might as well just rotate the image and be done with it.
Personally, I at least want to keep compatibility with stable (so, currently 1.7.9). Because it's stable (default is king), a majority of users will be using it, and a minute amount will be using snapshots. The model files honestly don't take up much space, so doing a 1.7.9 friendly fix and not rotating the texture isn't that bad.
I mean, all of my 3D redstone files are about 100 KB (compressed size 14 KB!), and look at Alvoria's fix, it's only 25 KB. It's just text, too, so it's going to compress down way better than images do.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I'm an outsider by choice, but not truly.
It’s the unpleasantness of the system that keeps me out.
I’d rather be in, in a good system. That’s where my discontent comes from:
being forced to choose to stay outside.
My advice: Just keep movin’ straight ahead.
Every now and then you find yourself in a different place."
-George Carlin
I mean, all of my 3D redstone files are about 100 KB (compressed size 14 KB!), and look at Alvoria's fix, it's only 25 KB. It's just text, too, so it's going to compress down way better than images do.
Technically 11KB of that is the pack.png too. Forgot to optimize that before uploading.
So no, the 14KB for the actual model files themselves is not a huge amount of extra data to include to ensure compatibility with both the snapshot and the official release. Frankly I'm happy to be able to do stuff like this to avoid breaking cross-compatibility until 1.8 comes out... at which point I'll just rotate the texture.
The only thing they did with the block model format was add more block states and more block models.
At least redstone wire and pistons have models now! Doesn't do me any good yet for pistons, because I can't give pistons a different head side texture yet. Stairs also have models now, but all I want to do for those is give them a different texture, too
"I'm an outsider by choice, but not truly.
It’s the unpleasantness of the system that keeps me out.
I’d rather be in, in a good system. That’s where my discontent comes from:
being forced to choose to stay outside.
My advice: Just keep movin’ straight ahead.
Every now and then you find yourself in a different place."
-George Carlin
You beat be to the punch, I was planning on making something like that, though it is less needed with my Packs Snapshot format.
There is one on the tracker. It's MC-53401.
Putting the CENDENT back in transcendent!
Erm, I was about to make my redstone 3D, and I noticed that you didn't fully fix this. Redstone going up blocks is still broken.
"I'm an outsider by choice, but not truly.
It’s the unpleasantness of the system that keeps me out.
I’d rather be in, in a good system. That’s where my discontent comes from:
being forced to choose to stay outside.
My advice: Just keep movin’ straight ahead.
Every now and then you find yourself in a different place."
-George Carlin
Guess I'll have to figure that out now. Stand by!
Edit: Well.... either I'm stupid or it's bugged. I can get it to look correct when it's a strait line going up-hill, but if the lower redstone goes off in any other direction at the base the side segment still turns sideways... even though I'm doing the same thing in the block model as I did with the one that works.
Can anyone more pro at this take a look at it and see if they can get it to work. Because I'm at my wit's end here.
Thanks in advance.
Edit Again: Wait... wait... I think I've got it... Just gotta try one more thing...
Edit Yet Again: Texture stretching is the bane of my existence.
Edit Again Again: This would probably go faster if I weren't doing this at three in the morning when I'm supposed to be sleeping.
Edit Final: GOT IT! You can download the (hopefully perfect) version HERE. Please let me know if there are still any problems with it.
For right now, I'm going to bed! THANK YOU MINECRAFTFORUM! GOODNIGHT!
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/beacon.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/beacon.json differ
Only in 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes: enchanting_table_base.json
Only in 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes: missingno.json
Only in 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes: mob_spawner_cage.json
Only in 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes: portal_ew.json
Only in 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes: portal_ns.json
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/rail_curved.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/rail_curved.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/rail_flat.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/rail_flat.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/rail_raised_ne.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/rail_raised_ne.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/rail_raised_sw.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/rail_raised_sw.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_ne.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_ne.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_n.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_n.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_none.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_none.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_nse.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_nse.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_nsew.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_nsew.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_nsue.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_nsue.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_nue.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_nue.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_nuse.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_nuse.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_nusue.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_nusue.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_une.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_une.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unse.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unse.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unsew.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unsew.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_uns.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_uns.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unsue.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unsue.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unsuew.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unsuew.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unue.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unue.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unuse.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unuse.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unusew.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unusew.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unus.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unus.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unusue.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unusue.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unusueuw.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unusueuw.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unusuew.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/redstone_unusuew.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/reeds.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/reeds.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/vine_2.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/vine_2.json differ
Files 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/vine_2u.json and 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block/meshes/vine_2u.json differ
Only in 14w17a/assets/minecraft/models/block: missingno.json
Only in 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block: mob_spawner.json
Only in 14w18a/assets/minecraft/models/block: portal.json
Model changes in summary:
I'm not exactly sure what they did here. I can tell you though, they messed up redstone (models this time), again. The "textureFacing" values of the regular and overlay images were swapped.
Seriously, I just made the redstone wire models, and now they're already broken! What's the point in changing an arbitrary texture association when weeks ago you were making it sound like texture specification was implementable? That just seems like they're trying to break things (or at least be careless about not making unnecessary changes)!
For some reason I just want to scream "Dunderhead!" at whoever has been making these screw-ups. That word, specifically, which is weird because I don't even remember learning that word.....
EDIT: D'Oh!
"I'm an outsider by choice, but not truly.
It’s the unpleasantness of the system that keeps me out.
I’d rather be in, in a good system. That’s where my discontent comes from:
being forced to choose to stay outside.
My advice: Just keep movin’ straight ahead.
Every now and then you find yourself in a different place."
-George Carlin
*sigh*
Guess I'll get to work on re-fixing redstone.
Edit: Oh, Excellent! Item Frames cause the game to crash in this version! WONDERFUL! There goes my entire test world.
Yeah....
You'll probably have to switch your textureFacing values on your "cross" textured elements.
In other words, up is down.
EDIT: The rails/vine file changes were just for fixing bugs.
"I'm an outsider by choice, but not truly.
It’s the unpleasantness of the system that keeps me out.
I’d rather be in, in a good system. That’s where my discontent comes from:
being forced to choose to stay outside.
My advice: Just keep movin’ straight ahead.
Every now and then you find yourself in a different place."
-George Carlin
Anyway, it's done now: Snapshot 14w18a Redstone Fix!
Fortunately that didn't take long. Now to update everything with the new fixed versions!
Or...you could swap the images in your texture pack, further breaking support with 1.7, combined with the already broken enchantment table GUI and the fact that the redstone texture itself is rotated 90 degrees. Honestly this is the point where I start sacrificing compatibility for minimizing redundancy (the bad kind!).
Putting the CENDENT back in transcendent!
Well, not really if you consider the fact that if you're going to break the texture anyways, there's no point in trying to fix the rotation in the model files, which means you have no need to fix the main/overlay image swap, so you might as well just rotate the image and be done with it.
Personally, I at least want to keep compatibility with stable (so, currently 1.7.9). Because it's stable (default is king), a majority of users will be using it, and a minute amount will be using snapshots. The model files honestly don't take up much space, so doing a 1.7.9 friendly fix and not rotating the texture isn't that bad.
I mean, all of my 3D redstone files are about 100 KB (compressed size 14 KB!), and look at Alvoria's fix, it's only 25 KB. It's just text, too, so it's going to compress down way better than images do.
"I'm an outsider by choice, but not truly.
It’s the unpleasantness of the system that keeps me out.
I’d rather be in, in a good system. That’s where my discontent comes from:
being forced to choose to stay outside.
My advice: Just keep movin’ straight ahead.
Every now and then you find yourself in a different place."
-George Carlin
So no, the 14KB for the actual model files themselves is not a huge amount of extra data to include to ensure compatibility with both the snapshot and the official release. Frankly I'm happy to be able to do stuff like this to avoid breaking cross-compatibility until 1.8 comes out... at which point I'll just rotate the texture.
Change
/assets/minecraft/lang/en_US.lang
< commands.worldborder.usage=/worldborder <set|center>
---
> commands.worldborder.usage=/worldborder <set|center|damage|warning>
1790a1791,1800
> commands.worldborder.damage.usage=/worldborder damage <buffer|amount>
> commands.worldborder.damage.buffer.usage=/worldborder damage buffer <sizeInBlocks>
> commands.worldborder.damage.buffer.success=Set world border damage buffer to %s blocks (from %s blocks)
> commands.worldborder.damage.amount.usage=/worldborder damage amount <damagePerBlock>
> commands.worldborder.damage.amount.success=Set world border damage amount to %s per block (from %s per block)
> commands.worldborder.warning.usage=/worldborder warning <time|distance>
> commands.worldborder.warning.time.usage=/worldborder warning time <seconds>
> commands.worldborder.warning.time.success=Set world border warning to %s seconds away (from %s seconds)
> commands.worldborder.warning.distance.usage=/worldborder warning distance <blocks>
> commands.worldborder.warning.distance.success=Set world border warning to %s blocks away (from %s blocks)
Addition
/assets/minecraft/textures/gui: spectator_widgets.png
Now if you will excuse me, I'm going to go grumble about the lack of the new model structure once again.
Only changes this time were to the language file (addition of the /title command) and some more line in the splashes file.
Waaaaaaah, really? :c
This basically ruins a fair few packs. Why would they even do that?!?