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New Villages- Suburban, Urban, Rural

villages new villagers mobs suburb urban rural

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#21

Incubus412

Posted 16 January 2013 - 10:54 PM

View PostAnonTheMouse, on 16 January 2013 - 07:39 AM, said:

This could work, if you removed/toned down the references to modern civilization. Leaving alone the subject of what time period Minecraft is set in (Spoilers: It doesn't have one, because it's a completely original setting), let's focus on the gameplay of Minecraft. First and foremost, Minecraft is a survival style game...at least in two out of three game-modes (ignore Adventure Mode, because Mojang does too). However, the feeling of survival is ruined when you can leave the forest and go down to the local corner store to pick up a bag of groceries at any time. The reason villages work in Minecraft is because they have so little of value, and most of what they have requires bartering with people who have slightly unreasonable exchange rates, and a limited supply of goods. You have to be able to preserve that. For example, you could set up the tiers of villages like this:
  • Hamlet: This actually becomes a step down from the current villages. Most houses are dirt huts with logs to make a framework. Windows are little more than holes with fenceposts. A few have wood or clay walls. Thatch roofs (planted crops on top of houses) are common, as are dirt floors. Possibly, houses could even have gates instead of proper doors. These villages would tend to have more farms than normal, and occasionally fenced off pens with a few sheep, pigs, or cows and a log trough of water. The most common Testificates would be Farmers. The spawn rate of blacksmith shops would be reduced, and libraries would never spawn here. (In desert Hamlets, cobble or sandstone would replace any logs.)
  • Town: This is your "suburban town" it would be largely as the villages are now. They get libraries, but no chance of livestock, and few farms. The most common Testificates would be "Villagers", using the existing green-robed villager skin. Villagers would have a similar selection of trades to Farmers, with a few differences.
    • No offers for Arrows, Shears, Apples Cooked Chicken or Melons.
    • No offers for Flint processing.
    • New trade offers for Flowerpots, Paintings, Item Frames and Fence Posts.
    • Offers for wool-dying. (10 Wool + 1 Emerald = 5-7 dyed wool of a colour)
    • Expensive offer for Cake.
    • No longer purchases Wool, Raw Chicken or Fish.
    • More generous purchases for Wheat.
    • Additional purchases for Cocoa Beans, Eggs, and Bricks.
  • City: Cities are substantially larger than Hamlets or Towns, but not really that much more prosperous. Buildings typically have a more "developed" style including large windows, and the occasional fireplace or chimney (not actually an opening), utilizing brick and stone brick in their construction (desert Cities would also make use of smooth sandstone), and are typically bigger, with more doors than their Hamlet and Town equivalents. The design of City buildings would also change a bit. Churches and libraries might use some of the new Quartz blocks (normal, pillar, or carved) in their designs, wells are replaced by fountains, and in place of a simple blacksmith's shop would be something resembling a Victorian-era factory, a long, tall, and narrow brick building with one or more smokestacks and two large stone "blast furnaces" holding lava inside, which would include an actual furnace in their design. Despite the apparent prosperity, actual loot would not change (for example, the "Factory" might get a double chest in place of a normal chest, but it would only hold the same loot as a typical blacksmith's chest). All village building types will spawn in Cities, though farms and pens would only spawn near the village edge. In addition, cities would have one new type of building, a pub. Similar in size and shape to a large house, the main differences would be on the inside of the building, where there would be a recognizable bar, separated from the main room by a trapdoor, some tables with "booths", and a Jukebox, which would rarely hold a record to be played in it (pubs might also rarely appear in Towns, in a simpler style). While all Testificate types would appear in Cities, with Villagers being the most common, they would also have two new types. A Publican, who is tied to the spawn of a pub, and Workers, two of whom spawn for every factory, in addition to a Blacksmith.
    • Publicans would have the green robes of a villager, but the white apron of a butcher.
      • Sells special potions as uncommon to rare trades. Specifically, these would be multi-effect potions from Jeb's original brewing system, having one positive (Haste, Jump Boost, Speed, Resistance, or Strength) and one negative effect (Slowness, Weakness, Hunger, Blindness or Mining Fatigue). Effects would be preset, so as not contradict (i.e, no Haste + Mining Fatigue or Speed + Slowness).
      • Sells Bread, Cooked Porkchops, Steak and Mushroom Stew, but at a poor exchange.
      • Will buy Gold Ingots, Diamonds, Bowls, Glass Bottles, Sugar, Wheat, and Potatoes.
    • Workers have dark grey robes, matching pageboy-style caps, and dark blue aprons.
      • Sells Iron and Gold Ingots, Stone Brick, Glass Panes, and Bricks - the block, not the item.
      • Processes Gravel into Flint.
      • Repairs damaged tools at a fixed rate (Same price no matter how damaged.)
      • Will buy Iron/Gold Ores, at slightly less than what the Blacksmith gives for the processed resources.
      • Will buy Coal and Charcoal.
      • Also buys Clay (blocks), but the prices are terrible.
Besides the hamlet thing, this is what I had in mind. I realized pretty quickly after I posted that I worded it kind of weird, it made it sound like i was going for a very modern looking town/city look. I only wanted to use more modern ideas, and this basically is what I wanted to say, I like this. And I think, if you're going to put something in a game, why not make it useful. And if its going to be very useful, make it rare. Thats why everyone loves diamonds and hates lapis. Diamonds are very rare, but extremely useful when found. Lapis is more rare than iron and not useful at all. That was what i had in mind when I wrote this, make villages useful if theyre going to be so hard to find (my opinion, maybe theyre more common then i think). ANd then the more useful they get, the more rare they get. I still like the sewer idea, but they dont have to have anything in them (besides rats, i like that idea).

View PostPsycodragons, on 16 January 2013 - 03:27 AM, said:

Well, this is pretty ambitious, so you would either have to cut out some things or make them pretty rare. If you go for removing, I would trash the sewers. How would that work?
Id go for the rare thing, seeing as villages are already fairly rare in my opinion

View PostMathy, on 16 January 2013 - 04:34 AM, said:

No reason for it. I mean, sure, let's give the players free gold diamonds jewels and everything. As if villages didn't already have enough.

I made it seem like it was going to have lots of goodies in it, and i was probably thinking that at the time. But really, it would just be like a normal village, except with one or two more chests, like pyramids.

View Postdirtminer6, on 16 January 2013 - 04:37 AM, said:

People like this topic yet hate mine... i dont understand why. Its called Upgraded Villages
Give me a link to the page and ill check it out. ANd in case you havent realized, Ive been getting more criticism than support, though i dont really mind, it was just an idea. Now, if you mean like as in it gets replies, maybe it was just luck, not sure.

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#22

Mathy
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Posted 16 January 2013 - 10:55 PM

View PostIncubus412, on 16 January 2013 - 10:54 PM, said:

I made it seem like it was going to have lots of goodies in it, and i was probably thinking that at the time. But really, it would just be like a normal village, except with one or two more chests, like pyramids.

OK, maybe then.

But giving so much to players... you know.

I like the update.

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#23

Incubus412

Posted 16 January 2013 - 11:01 PM

View PostMathy, on 16 January 2013 - 10:55 PM, said:

OK, maybe then.

But giving so much to players... you know.

I like the update.
There could be protection, like with the jungle temples and pyramids. Im not great with redstone, so im not sure how it would work, so maybe something like aggro-ing testificates. Like, if you try to raid the chests or kill other testificates, they would attack. It would be weird though, since testificates are usually seen as the nice friendly mob, so maybe this would be a new mob that spawns in cities, like Anon said, new people that do different things.

#24

bigscary
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Posted 16 January 2013 - 11:05 PM

View PostMathy, on 16 January 2013 - 04:34 AM, said:

No reason for it. I mean, sure, let's give the players free gold diamonds jewels and everything. As if villages didn't already have enough.

Don't mind his attitude, he's grumpy in every thread he posts in.  :)  But I agree with him - it's already way too easy to get gems and ores which should be rare, because players just tunnel around in safety, placing torches as they go.  Giving players even more goodies just for stumbling across a village is too much.

Besides, I like the the very rural, low-tech towns.  They fit well with the "wilderness" theme in Minecraft.  If I were to change anything about towns, it would only be that there would always be one withing some reasonable distance of the starting point, so that players would always get to enjoy them.  Today, it's possible to get a map where there's no town anywhere near, so robbing the player of that part of the game.
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#25

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 11:09 PM

View Postbigscary, on 16 January 2013 - 11:05 PM, said:

Don't mind his attitude, he's grumpy in every thread he posts in.  Posted Image  But I agree with him - it's already way too easy to get gems and ores which should be rare, because players just tunnel around in safety, placing torches as they go.  Giving players even more goodies just for stumbling across a village is too much.

Besides, I like the the very rural, low-tech towns.  They fit well with the "wilderness" theme in Minecraft.  If I were to change anything about towns, it would only be that there would always be one withing some reasonable distance of the starting point, so that players would always get to enjoy them.  Today, it's possible to get a map where there's no town anywhere near, so robbing the player of that part of the game.

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#26

Incubus412

Posted 16 January 2013 - 11:10 PM

View Postbigscary, on 16 January 2013 - 11:05 PM, said:

Don't mind his attitude, he's grumpy in every thread he posts in.  Posted Image  But I agree with him - it's already way too easy to get gems and ores which should be rare, because players just tunnel around in safety, placing torches as they go.  Giving players even more goodies just for stumbling across a village is too much.

Besides, I like the the very rural, low-tech towns.  They fit well with the "wilderness" theme in Minecraft.  If I were to change anything about towns, it would only be that there would always be one withing some reasonable distance of the starting point, so that players would always get to enjoy them.  Today, it's possible to get a map where there's no town anywhere near, so robbing the player of that part of the game.
I can respect that, though I might not agree with it. It seems that the designers are moving more towards the future, with all the new redstone things, solar detectors, etc... Keeping with that theme, i think it would be nice to find some new, rare cities around the map, keep things exciting.
And ive learned to read angry/sarcastic comments without emotion and respond normally, so that doesnt matter to me, I appreciate the criticism regardless

#27

EpicEnderMiner

Posted 16 January 2013 - 11:26 PM

I do not support. Having randomly generated villages that were sometimes larger than before would be nice, but this modern stuff is not good for Minecraft, which takes place in medieval times.

My current avatar is: Raistlin Majere from the Dragonlance novels.

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#28

Incubus412

Posted 16 January 2013 - 11:30 PM

View PostEpicEnderMiner, on 16 January 2013 - 11:26 PM, said:

I do not support. Having randomly generated villages that were sometimes larger than before would be nice, but this modern stuff is not good for Minecraft, which takes place in medieval times.

Who says it takes place in medieval times? And if it does, what is redstone? Electricity is a fairly modern invention, so your medieval theory isn't valid. Plus, if you would go farther into the comments and read some of my responses to people, youd get a better idea of what i would like to do.
Dont try to put a date to minecraft, it wont work

#29

AnonTheMouse
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Posted 16 January 2013 - 11:33 PM

View PostEpicEnderMiner, on 16 January 2013 - 11:26 PM, said:

I do not support. Having randomly generated villages that were sometimes larger than before would be nice, but this modern stuff is not good for Minecraft, which takes place in medieval times.

No. No it doesn't. It doesn't take place in any time period, because it's an original setting and isn't the least bit historically accurate.
However, if it did have a time period, you would still be wrong, because there are things in the game that would not have existed until the late 19th to early 20th century.
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#30

peppertyce
  • Location: Digging straight down.
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Posted 16 January 2013 - 11:33 PM

View PostAnonTheMouse, on 16 January 2013 - 07:39 AM, said:

Specifically, these would be multi-effect potions from Jeb's original brewing system, having one positive (Haste, Jump Boost, Speed, Resistance, or Strength) and one negative effect (Slowness, Weakness, Hunger, Blindness or Mining Fatigue). Effects would be preset, so as not contradict (i.e, no Haste + Mining Fatigue or Speed + Slowness).
Why does everyone think the original had multi-effects? There never were multi-effect potions in game, it was an idea that was never implemented. The cauldron brewing system just had more redundant potions ( potions made through different methods to get the same potion) than the brewing stand, hence why it was replaced.
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#31

Genouious
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Posted 16 January 2013 - 11:37 PM

I've always entertained the possibility of "town" biomes, smaller, flat biomes filled with the standard village houses as well as some larger buildings (all with an underground sewer network). However I have never been bothered to develop it.

Large skyscrapers though do not have any place in the vanilla game, in my most humble of opinions.

#32

AnonTheMouse
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Posted 16 January 2013 - 11:39 PM

View Postpeppertyce, on 16 January 2013 - 11:33 PM, said:

Why does everyone think the original had multi-effects? There never were multi-effect potions in game, it was an idea that was never implemented. The cauldron brewing system just had more redundant potions ( potions made through different methods to get the same potion) than the brewing stand, hence why it was replaced.

than the brewing stand

I never said that they were implimented. The system itself wasn't implemented, so of course the potions were not. However, they were intended to be a part of the design. It's meant as an homage.
Check out my 5 Rules of Game Design!
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#33

Incubus412

Posted 16 January 2013 - 11:40 PM

View PostGenouious, on 16 January 2013 - 11:37 PM, said:

I've always entertained the possibility of "town" biomes, smaller, flat biomes filled with the standard village houses as well as some larger buildings (all with an underground sewer network). However I have never been bothered to develop it.

Large skyscrapers though do not have any place in the vanilla game, in my most humble of opinions.
I have realized that skyscrapers wasnt really the right word for what i was trying to describe. It would be sort of the equivalent to skyscrapers in the real world, but not all that big or modern. Just multi storied buildings (2-4 stories) made of something not wood (stone, cobble, etc). Nothing like 50 blocks high or anything, thatd be weird unless it was part of an adventure map or something

#34

EpicEnderMiner

Posted 16 January 2013 - 11:48 PM

Minecraft takes place in medieval times for a multitude of reasons. For one, there are, in villages, blacksmith shops, churches, and libraries. Having a blacksmith in nearly all villages suggests that this took place well after the stone age, and before the industrial revolution. Having churches in a very small village means that church and religion was still a large, extremely important part of life during Minecraft times, as it was during medieval through renniasance times. (I'm not saying that it isn't now, but the power of churches and likeliness of them being in a very small village have since decreased.) Before the dark ages in Roman times, at least before Christianity, there would be temples to different gods rather than churches, so that would narrow it down to after 0 AD. As for libraries, this means that literature was known by at least a fair amount of people. Based on that, we can immediately discount the dark ages, when being literary was extremely unlikely due to the chaotic world and need to work to survive at the time. In addition to this, Minecraft has bows and arrows, as well as swords. Due to them being swords, this shows that Minecraft is based around a European setting, and not others, which reinforces the church logic as stated earlier. Swords that are made out of iron were only possible to be widely used later than Roman times, and usually later than Dark Ages as well. They were used much less after the invention of gunpowder, and even less as different types of blades such as rapiers replaced swords. Bows were also used much less during that time. These two primary Minecraft weapons show that Minecraft takes place before the late Renniasance. As for redstone, there is a difference between "redstone" and "electric wire." Why wouldn't they have named it that instead? And also, electricity came into general use at about the early 1900s or late 1800s, so if there was electricity, there would also most likely be cars. And I DO NOT want cars in Minecraft. It only seems reasonable, therefore, that redstone, as well as many other items in Minecraft, are based on fantasy and not the real world, unless of course the automobile and printing press were avaliable in Minecraft.

That is three reasons why Minecraft takes place in medieval times, or at least between the late dark ages to the early renniasance. There are many more.

My current avatar is: Raistlin Majere from the Dragonlance novels.

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#35

Incubus412

Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:05 AM

View PostEpicEnderMiner, on 16 January 2013 - 11:48 PM, said:

Minecraft takes place in medieval times for a multitude of reasons. For one, there are, in villages, blacksmith shops, churches, and libraries. Having a blacksmith in nearly all villages suggests that this took place well after the stone age, and before the industrial revolution. Having churches in a very small village means that church and religion was still a large, extremely important part of life during Minecraft times, as it was during medieval through renniasance times. (I'm not saying that it isn't now, but the power of churches and likeliness of them being in a very small village have since decreased.) Before the dark ages in Roman times, at least before Christianity, there would be temples to different gods rather than churches, so that would narrow it down to after 0 AD. As for libraries, this means that literature was known by at least a fair amount of people. Based on that, we can immediately discount the dark ages, when being literary was extremely unlikely due to the chaotic world and need to work to survive at the time. In addition to this, Minecraft has bows and arrows, as well as swords. Due to them being swords, this shows that Minecraft is based around a European setting, and not others, which reinforces the church logic as stated earlier. Swords that are made out of iron were only possible to be widely used later than Roman times, and usually later than Dark Ages as well. They were used much less after the invention of gunpowder, and even less as different types of blades such as rapiers replaced swords. Bows were also used much less during that time. These two primary Minecraft weapons show that Minecraft takes place before the late Renniasance. As for redstone, there is a difference between "redstone" and "electric wire." Why wouldn't they have named it that instead? And also, electricity came into general use at about the early 1900s or late 1800s, so if there was electricity, there would also most likely be cars. And I DO NOT want cars in Minecraft. It only seems reasonable, therefore, that redstone, as well as many other items in Minecraft, are based on fantasy and not the real world, unless of course the automobile and printing press were avaliable in Minecraft.

That is three reasons why Minecraft takes place in medieval times, or at least between the late dark ages to the early renniasance. There are many more.
I think youre trying to find meaning in things that have no meaning. Swords for example. Yes, they were used in medieval times. Not they're not used a lot today. But seriously, what else are you going to defend yourself with? Plus, you make it seem like were trying to tell you that Minecraft takes place before medieval times, trying to say that swords made of iron were only commonly used after a certain time. This only shows that it has to be from that time onward, you gave no valid reason why it cant be later that medieval times. You actually said something about swords being less widely used after gunpowder was invented, which *surprise surprise* is in the game already. Now, maybe this argument didnt make much sense, maybe it is mostly ­. But one thing still makes me question your logic. You yourself claim that there are many fantasy type items in Minecraft. How does that not tell you immediately that Minecraft is not supposed to have a date? Seriously, have you ever seen someone run around, being chased by zombies and animated skeletons, with a sword made out of pure diamond while they collect hundreds of 1 cubic meter sized blocks of stone and wood? Your argument seems to have a lot of holes in it, i suggest you fix it.

#36

peppertyce
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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:06 AM

View PostAnonTheMouse, on 16 January 2013 - 11:39 PM, said:

I never said that they were implimented. The system itself wasn't implemented, so of course the potions were not. However, they were intended to be a part of the design. It's meant as an homage.
On another note, I love your variation of villages. Would be rather fun to find.
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#37

Incubus412

Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:10 AM

View Postpeppertyce, on 17 January 2013 - 12:06 AM, said:

On another note, I love your variation of villages. Would be rather fun to find.
Was this aimed towards me or him? If it was to him, then what about my idea?
If it was to me, thanks Posted Image

I see what you mean now, the version of the towns that was made by him but "inspired" by me (for lack of a better word)

#38

AnonTheMouse
  • Location: Sitting there, everywhere at once...

Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:11 AM

View PostEpicEnderMiner, on 16 January 2013 - 11:48 PM, said:

Minecraft takes place in medieval times for a multitude of reasons. For one, there are, in villages, blacksmith shops, churches, and libraries. Having a blacksmith in nearly all villages suggests that this took place well after the stone age, and before the industrial revolution. Having churches in a very small village means that church and religion was still a large, extremely important part of life during Minecraft times, as it was during medieval through renniasance times. (I'm not saying that it isn't now, but the power of churches and likeliness of them being in a very small village have since decreased.) Before the dark ages in Roman times, at least before Christianity, there would be temples to different gods rather than churches, so that would narrow it down to after 0 AD. As for libraries, this means that literature was known by at least a fair amount of people. Based on that, we can immediately discount the dark ages, when being literary was extremely unlikely due to the chaotic world and need to work to survive at the time. In addition to this, Minecraft has bows and arrows, as well as swords. Due to them being swords, this shows that Minecraft is based around a European setting, and not others, which reinforces the church logic as stated earlier. Swords that are made out of iron were only possible to be widely used later than Roman times, and usually later than Dark Ages as well. They were used much less after the invention of gunpowder, and even less as different types of blades such as rapiers replaced swords. Bows were also used much less during that time. These two primary Minecraft weapons show that Minecraft takes place before the late Renniasance. As for redstone, there is a difference between "redstone" and "electric wire." Why wouldn't they have named it that instead? And also, electricity came into general use at about the early 1900s or late 1800s, so if there was electricity, there would also most likely be cars. And I DO NOT want cars in Minecraft. It only seems reasonable, therefore, that redstone, as well as many other items in Minecraft, are based on fantasy and not the real world, unless of course the automobile and printing press were avaliable in Minecraft.

That is three reasons why Minecraft takes place in medieval times, or at least between the late dark ages to the early renniasance. There are many more.

The jukebox in Minecraft does not require any form of redstone. Jukeboxes as we know them, and as shown in Minecraft, were developed around the end of the 19th century. We also have a non-redstone locomotive, in the powered minecart. Steve, the default skin, is shown wearing denim, which dates to at least the 18th century. However, his jeans and t-shirt style points more toward a more modern time-period, as shirts of that kind were worn in the 19th century, and really only became a common fashion as something other than an undergarment going into the 20th. Also, though I don't have the link handy to cite it, I recall that Jeb mentioned around the time Book and Quill was added that he wanted to put in a printing press. I could go on, but I feel this adequately demonstrates that Minecraft fits the "Fantasy Industrial Age" trope fairly well. So you get magic instead of electricity, very limited industry (current updates including things like Hoppers supports this) and red brick buildings (we've had brick for a long time). NPCs having at least a crude sort of pseudo-Victorian style is not unreasonable. Really, I've made the case before, purely to demonstrate how absurd trying to give Minecraft an era is, that you can more easily provide evidence that Minecraft takes place after the apocalypse than that it is medieval.

View Postpeppertyce, on 17 January 2013 - 12:06 AM, said:

On another note, I love your variation of villages. Would be rather fun to find.

Thank you very much. I do try.
Check out my 5 Rules of Game Design!
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#39

EpicEnderMiner

Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:11 AM

View PostIncubus412, on 17 January 2013 - 12:05 AM, said:

I think youre trying to find meaning in things that have no meaning. Swords for example. Yes, they were used in medieval times. Not they're not used a lot today. But seriously, what else are you going to defend yourself with? Plus, you make it seem like were trying to tell you that Minecraft takes place before medieval times, trying to say that swords made of iron were only commonly used after a certain time. This only shows that it has to be from that time onward, you gave no valid reason why it cant be later that medieval times. You actually said something about swords being less widely used after gunpowder was invented, which *surprise surprise* is in the game already. Now, maybe this argument didnt make much sense, maybe it is mostly ­. But one thing still makes me question your logic. You yourself claim that there are many fantasy type items in Minecraft. How does that not tell you immediately that Minecraft is not supposed to have a date? Seriously, have you ever seen someone run around, being chased by zombies and animated skeletons, with a sword made out of pure diamond while they collect hundreds of 1 cubic meter sized blocks of stone and wood? Your argument seems to have a lot of holes in it, i suggest you fix it.
Swords, as I said, were replaced by weapons such as rapiers and other blades in the renniasance. The sword that is in Minecraft was only used commonly before early renniasance times. And as for gunpowder, I mean guns in general. And there is such thing as medieval based fantasy. There are also modern fantasies. What I am saying is that Minecraft includes many fantasy aspects, and what is real was from medieval times.

My current avatar is: Raistlin Majere from the Dragonlance novels.

Posted Image


#40

Incubus412

Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:15 AM

View PostEpicEnderMiner, on 17 January 2013 - 12:11 AM, said:

Swords, as I said, were replaced by weapons such as rapiers and other blades in the renniasance. The sword that is in Minecraft was only used commonly before early renniasance times. And as for gunpowder, I mean guns in general. And there is such thing as medieval based fantasy. There are also modern fantasies. What I am saying is that Minecraft includes many fantasy aspects, and what is real was from medieval times.
But what your not saying is why it cant be later than that? So, the sword that you think is based off of a medieval sword was not commonly used after that? So? Why cant they still be used later? And you cant blame everything that doesnt fit with your idea on the fact that theres fantasy involved.