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My suggestion to improve combat system.

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#1

Red1530
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Posted 23 December 2012 - 08:09 AM

Ok guys, we all know Minecraft was a game about placing blocks and building things, but is now becoming a game about fighting, enchanting and adventuring. But the combat system is just about spam clicking, blocking and throwing potions.


So what do I suggest?
My first suggestion is adding offensive/defensive/support spells.
It's too late to say it won't fit the game because the game already has enchanting, magic potions, a few mobs using some kind of magic and undead.

My second suggestion is to improve swordplay, so it's not just about who clicked first or who owns the diamond sharpness IV sword.

I think bows are ok and strong enough when you get the resources to farm arrows.

Magic? Too overpowered.
No, I won't suggest "zomg wat if u could make a wand with two sticks and if u right clic it shoots creepers and  it never runs out!!11"

I'll explain the magic system I thought of now:

-Spells
Spells would be the basic for magic. They would be a glowing piece of paper, rarely dropped by strong and magic related mobs like endermen, wither skeletons and ghasts, or found in dungeons. To use it, you must craft a wand, and drop it in your active spell slot. Spells would be activated by right clicking with your wand anywhere, then casted performing some task like drawing a pattern that appears in your screen while holding right click and then, when you are done, your wand glows and you aim (the pattern will stay ony about 10 seconds so you dont "store" your spell there) and you left click and bam!, you just ignited that ugly creeper with your mighty fireball.  More powerfull spells require drawing harder patterns.

-Wands
Wands deal no good damage on their own. A cheap wand without spells is just like attacking with your fists, but better wands would deal decent melee damage (nope, not like a diamond sword). Better wands however, deal more damage when you cast a spell, wands are crafted with sticks (or blaze rods for the best ones) and a tip, the weakest being ender pearl, and the strongest being the nether star.  A wand enhances your offensive and defensive magic, and also better wands have more duration.

Take for example a simple fireball. While using a wand made of sticks and an ender pearl it deals 4 hearts to non armored mobs or players. It uses 2 exp to be casted (A spider gives 5 exp) and to cast it you have to draw a small circle with your crosshair. It also makes you a bit hungry. That's it, no spell spamming, spamming would be just plain stupid as you may lose your hard gained levels fast and starve. As I said, it would require skill to become a successful magician.

Wands also would have an special move each one, for example, teleporting 4 blocks in the direction you're facing each time you use it with a wand with an ender pearl, teleporting to your bed with an eye of ender, lightning strike with a nether star.
This of course would use exp and cause hunger, but wouldn't require to draw a pattern.

Example Recipe:
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-Spellbooks
Spellbooks would be crafted or bought (with npcs) as a portable chest that only hold spells, so you dont get your inventory full of spells and leave your beloved porkchops at home. They wouldn't be really hard to craft, maybe just a book and a diamond, but again, they're nothing without spells wich are hard to obtain, killing mobs or in creative mode only.

Some examples, so you imagine the possibilities.
Fireball. Your new best friend, both if you're a powerful magic freak or a guy who likes hacking and slashing too.
Great Fireball. Harder pattern, more exp use, more power, leaves the victim burning for a while.

Healing. No potions, you're heavily injured and a horde of creepers is coming. Use this spell and you will regenerate your health instantly.

Healing projectile: Same as above, but instead of healing you, you launch a projectile at your wolf, tamed cat, or friend to heal him.

Knockback wave: Creates a powerful wave that pushes your enemy backwards, deals a bit of damage and gives you some time to plan your next move.

Freezeball: A ball of freezing magic that stuns the enemy for a bit giving you time to attack him, or run. Better wands increase the stun time.

Please note that projectile spells can be dodged, specially by players, spells move as fast as arrows so it ain't easy tho.
Also, getting just fireballs from mobs isn't cool, so you can exchange spells with your friends.

Also, spells wouldn't replace potions and splash potions, even if they're used instantly and  may inflict more damage, they would require exp use and skill to perform.

A Starstorm Wand lauching a simple fireball at a cobblestone wall:
Posted Image

Swordplay
Ok, swords are strong enough and don't really need to deal more damage but the fact that you just jump and spam click has to change. I tought of a sword parry, by clicking both left and right mouse buttons to perform a counter attack (the animation is already there, when you mine while shielding with your sword!) in the moment you're going to get hit by a mob or a player. If you do it properly, you take no damage, hit the mob or player with 150% damage and he gets knocked back 2 or three meters away. If both players perform this move at the same time, none recieve damage and both get knocked back. Fighting this way at the edge of a mountain would be just epic. Also, to protect the sword users from magic, some projectiles could be deflected just the way a ghast gets backfired. So magic won't make swords or bows look like toys, the battles between different kinds of fighting styles, or someone skillfully combining all three would be epic. Just imagine someone using a bow to protect a magic user throwing fireballs at some sword user, as he aproaches quickly trough the battlefield, dodging and deflecting projectiles!

No matter if you agree, you think this suggestion could improve a bit, a lot, or just sucks way too much, give feedback please!

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#2

CreepingEnderMan

Posted 23 December 2012 - 08:19 AM

Wow. These would be epic. Supported.

#3

Red1530
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Posted 23 December 2012 - 08:31 AM

View PostCreepingEnderMan, on 23 December 2012 - 08:19 AM, said:

Wow. These would be epic. Supported.


Thanks, seriously. Already automated farms and plenty of food and resources and all we got to do is spam clicking on monsters? boring..

#4

astrotrap
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Posted 23 December 2012 - 09:23 AM

wwhy do people keep making out of the wwater accounts just to post suggestions today?

and perhaps more importantly, HOWW ARE SOME OF THESE THREADS SO GLUBBIN AWWESOME?!?!?!

seriously, infinity times support

#5

Red1530
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Posted 23 December 2012 - 06:41 PM

Added some images to explain magic, reading that long text and from someone who has 2 or 3 posts may be not very appealing.

#6

Frog81
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Posted 23 December 2012 - 07:07 PM

Support! Very decent. Most of the time players with only a few posts ARE noobs, but there are exceptions that pop up every few weeks. Last one I saw was Gengar_ who also had a very good suggestion, and now has over a hundred posts. Should there also be a cooldown of 1 to 2 seconds after casting a spell, just to balance them a little more? Also, do more powerful wands use more XP?
Posted ImagePosted Image

#7

Random_Guy_32

Posted 23 December 2012 - 07:10 PM

This indeed sounds nice, although I would probably be too stupid to use it correctly. I've never been that much into combat (why do I even wear armor?), but it would be nice to see some improvements. You've basically the choice between left-clicking over and over again or throwing splash potions in all directions like a maniac. Minecraft's combat at the moment is a questions of who has the stronger sword. There's not much tactic you can bring in.

Another idea would be to make the damage dealt depend on the hit body part. This is already partly used for the Enderdragon, who takes more damage if punched on the head. This could also be applied to armour.

Example:

An iron helmet would give 1 armor point like it used to, but it would also reduce all damage dealt to the head by additional 50%.


This would of course not work with mobs (except of skeletons), so it would be kind of pvp-only.

#8

Red1530
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Posted 23 December 2012 - 07:16 PM

View PostFrog81, on 23 December 2012 - 07:07 PM, said:

Support! Very decent. Most of the time players with only a few posts ARE noobs, but there are exceptions that pop up every few weeks. Last one I saw was Gengar_ who also had a very good suggestion, and now has over a hundred posts. Should there also be a cooldown of 1 to 2 seconds after casting a spell, just to balance them a little more? Also, do more powerful wands use more XP?

Thanks. I never really tought of participating in this forum until this idea came trough my mind, that's the only reason I have a few posts, and to answer your questions. well, there would be no cooldown, but you HAVE to draw a pattern to cast a spell, this is why they require mouse skills to perform, and no, more powerful wands wouldn't use more exp, that's the point in crafting them, you get more attack power (just a bit, the same way a diamond sword just deals one heart more damage than a stone sword) for the same exp usage. More powerful wands also have more decent melee damage, probably the best one (the one in the recipe example) dealing the same damage as a stone sword when left clicking on mobs at close range.

#9

Luckyzin

Posted 23 December 2012 - 07:27 PM

Did i heard magic? No, thanks, friend.
Posted Image

#10

Red1530
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Posted 23 December 2012 - 07:35 PM

View PostLuckyzin, on 23 December 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

Did i heard magic? No, thanks, friend.

Quit the game then, there's too much magic already.

#11

Luckyzin

Posted 23 December 2012 - 07:41 PM

View PostRed1530, on 23 December 2012 - 07:35 PM, said:

Quit the game then, there's too much magic already.
But they have a interesting and new system, not something like "PEEOW PEOOOW MAGIC EXPLOSIONS BOOM"
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#12

Red1530
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Posted 23 December 2012 - 07:54 PM

View PostLuckyzin, on 23 December 2012 - 07:41 PM, said:

But they have a interesting and new system, not something like "PEEOW PEOOOW MAGIC EXPLOSIONS BOOM"

Yes I agree, it's interesting and very well tought that levels are used to enchant weapons and don't give you advantage against lower level players on their own, but still, even with an enchanted sword all you do is spam click. What's wrong with "peow peow magic explosions boom"? They totally fit the game, it's a game of exploring dark caves, fighting MONSTERS (wich are somehow magical) and defeating bosses, it's not a game about racecars. It fits, and it's needed.

#13

Luckyzin

Posted 23 December 2012 - 07:56 PM

View PostRed1530, on 23 December 2012 - 07:54 PM, said:

Yes I agree, it's interesting and very well tought that levels are used to enchant weapons and don't give you advantage against lower level players on their own, but still, even with an enchanted sword all you do is spam click. What's wrong with "peow peow magic explosions boom"? They totally fit the game, it's a game of exploring dark caves, fighting MONSTERS (wich are somehow magical) and defeating bosses, it's not a game about racecars. It fits, and it's needed.
Dude, i think you misunderstood it. The point is: Magical being placed inside the combat wouldn't help solve anything. But battle-system like parrying being more effective, shields, spears, crossbows, which one with a delay time (Sword delay time between swings, different animations, kicking!) THIS. THIS WOULD BE EFFECTIVE.

The exemples of what you said are something that already are in the game, it would be USELESS. It wouldn't be unique, wouldn't be inovative at all. You won't be changing combat. Combat would stay the freaking same if you implement this "magical thingies". And maybe even more boring.
THERE
ARE
POTIONS
FOR
IT.
DAMNIT! It's not usefull at all!
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#14

dillyman2

Posted 23 December 2012 - 08:04 PM

This suggestion is great! Swordfights would be more about skill than who has the better weapon. I have been killed so many times on servers because a dude in full diamond armour and a diamond sword comes up to me when I just build my house. Maybe there could be disarm moves, That would be cool.

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#15

Luckyzin

Posted 23 December 2012 - 08:06 PM

View PostRed1530, on 23 December 2012 - 07:54 PM, said:

Yes I agree, it's interesting and very well tought that levels are used to enchant weapons and don't give you advantage against lower level players on their own, but still, even with an enchanted sword all you do is spam click. What's wrong with "peow peow magic explosions boom"? They totally fit the game, it's a game of exploring dark caves, fighting MONSTERS (wich are somehow magical) and defeating bosses, it's not a game about racecars. It fits, and it's needed.

"It's needed" I don't see WHY. We already have Potions and Enchantment. These two systems could be improved to that. "It fits the game" The atmosphere doesn't really is that, my friend. The end-game is surviving well, the better you can, and PEW PEW PEW PEW PEOOOW just goes into an generic game. I like how it is. I don't want it to change.


About the magic side: NO. NO, NO, NO NO AND NO. It already has been implemented and in a better way.

About the swordfighting: Yes. But it needs more depth and it already has been suggested.
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#16

Red1530
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Posted 23 December 2012 - 08:09 PM

View PostLuckyzin, on 23 December 2012 - 07:56 PM, said:

Dude, i think you misunderstood it. The point is: Magical being placed inside the combat wouldn't help solve anything. But battle-system like parrying being more effective, shields, spears, crossbows, which one with a delay time (Sword delay time between swings, different animations, kicking!) THIS. THIS WOULD BE EFFECTIVE.

The exemples of what you said are something that already are in the game, it would be USELESS. It wouldn't be unique, wouldn't be inovative at all. You won't be changing combat. Combat would stay the freaking same if you implement this "magical thingies". And maybe even more boring.
THERE
ARE
POTIONS
FOR
IT.
DAMNIT! It's not usefull at all!

Chill mate, did you even read the post? I didn't say craft a wand and start left clicking to shoot fireballs. How does it not change combat? It's exactly tought to change combat not just add magic because I feel like it, potions, potions are great I didn't say remove potions but the point is they're still just about clicking, while spells are about SKILLS, PLAYER skills, give some potions of harming to a noob and tell him you right click to shoot them, and he could kill a minecraft expert who just joined a server.

Oh and by the way, if you like Minecraft just the way it is why are you browsing on suggestion topics? Just to flame on them so they don't happen? You're not the only one who owns the game.

#17

Luckyzin

Posted 23 December 2012 - 08:18 PM

View PostRed1530, on 23 December 2012 - 08:09 PM, said:

Chill mate, did you even read the post? I didn't say craft a wand and start left clicking to shoot fireballs. How does it not change combat? It's exactly tought to change combat not just add magic because I feel like it, potions, potions are great I didn't say remove potions but the point is they're still just about clicking, while spells are about SKILLS, PLAYER skills, give some potions of harming to a noob and tell him you right click to shoot them, and he could kill a minecraft expert who just joined a server.

Oh and by the way, if you like Minecraft just the way it is why are you browsing on suggestion topics? Just to flame on them so they don't happen? You're not the only one who owns the game.

The thing is, I like this part of the game. There is some really usefull thingies here on the suggestion topics that should help.
I already said, it is like that. Minecraft isn't like a PvP only game, it's resource-gathering, so OF COURSE a Diamond Guy should be killing an Stone-Sword newbie. It's normal. But i mean, with better mechanics of fighting, MAYBE, an Iron-sword could defeat an Diamond-Sword guy. This is it.  Combat still pretty the same, as you mentioned it, "Craft things, fight and win". It's the same, you know, but with special effects at all.

Minecraft have yes, more thingies than Click-And-Win, you should research a bit before you say thingies like that. But i think there should be improvement of already-inside-the-game features.

Quote

Fireball. Your new best friend, both if you're a powerful magic freak or a guy who likes hacking and slashing too.
Great Fireball. Harder pattern, more exp use, more power, leaves the victim burning for a while.

Healing. No potions, you're heavily injured and a horde of creepers is coming. Use this spell and you will regenerate your health instantly.

Healing projectile: Same as above, but instead of healing you, you launch a projectile at your wolf, tamed cat, or friend to heal him.

Knockback wave: Creates a powerful wave that pushes your enemy backwards, deals a bit of damage and gives you some time to plan your next move.

Freezeball: A ball of freezing magic that stuns the enemy for a bit giving you time to attack him, or run. Better wands increase the stun time.

"Healing projectile" Already in the game.
"Healing" Already in the game.
"Knockback Wave" Already in the game.
"Freezeball" Maybe an splash potion or enchantment?
"Fireball" Oh, man, what would it change? The bow can already shoot fire arrows. THE SAME DAMN THING.
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#18

Olimpt
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Posted 23 December 2012 - 08:19 PM

*supported*
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I NOMS ON CHOCOLATE

#19

alexdafishguy
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Posted 23 December 2012 - 08:20 PM

this would be AWESOME. and it would add another use for the nether star(the wand with blaze rods and star). having to draw the symbol is a cool idea, makes it non-OP
Sam- I left this here because I know you like MC and hope you are on this forum. this is alex, from gym and geography class. the kid with long hair and glasses. make an account and msg me if you see this.

#20

jpmrocks
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Posted 23 December 2012 - 08:27 PM

I never support magic suggestions, but this one is so in depth and has covered every gap of problems in game. I support. Great visuals, explanations, it looks like you even made a mod for this! Great job.

To the chap who says potions = magic: Potions are brewing. Magic is the conjuring of something from words. Potions is not. Go flame somewhere else.

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